Resource SV UU DLC 2 Viability Rankings- Update at Post #444

[HydreigonTheChild]

:hydrapple: -> B+

I think hydrapple is getting beaten down a bit with AV conk, clodsire, weavile, latios, sinistcha lately being the grass talk of the town, gard... I think its getting a bit unfriendly for it

:bellibolt: -> UR

This mon has seen no usage for the past few months. said to check weavile and crumbles and has seen no usage to back it up all this time, surely its time to send this mon packing

:empoleon::goodra-hisui: -> UR

I think these 2 mons are also.... out of date. Empoleon probably less so but they dont see usage in uupl nor on ladder for good reason... especially with stuff like clodsire / mandibuzz and slowking just generally being better to deal with stuff like latios / skarmory being as good as it is. They arent unusable but after all...

:latios: -> A+

Like late gen i feel we dont really have any S tier pokemon aside from weavile at #1 but i guess... with rises of things like pivot thundy i, mandibuzz, scarf gard, scarf meta, and more sp. def slowking i think its worth to consider a drop. Especially when mons like NP hydreigon pop up,

:ninetales::venusaur: -> B

I think sun has been showing itself quite a bit in the meta, its definitely quite good and deserves its spot up there.

:revavroom: -> B+

I think car has been getting mega fucked this gen with mandibuzz, donphan, less hydrapple and more stuff like stun spore sinistcha or just the fact it annoys the crap out of it with strength sap and prankster thundy i. And especially with rises of bisharp on such teams

:clodsire: -> B+

Deserves a bump, toxic sets are quite irritating with spikes and water absorb shuts down a lot against slowking / keldeo / toxapex alongside just being hard to wear down vs skarm / fez / slowking teams and can even force poisons onto dirge who may try to status it. Been doing better in the last couples of months. I think p jab is a bit shit in comparison to toxic as you would prefer to smack donphan / dirge / slowking instead of fishing for progress.

Some more comments, I was thinking about the trio of :armarouge::diancie::necrozma: that were used in pairing on a TR team to C tier. unsure but either way i think they are doable to consider to rise especially when i think peum had good success with it. :thwackey: can also maybe rise but its had one game all UUPL and maybe its just a fish not considering / not enough data to really consider it. Agree with rises to :gardevoir::thundurus::bisharp:

 

[Lyssa]

hey y'all, we plan on having another update to the VR soon so get your noms in before the weekend either here or through the discord channel, thank you!

 

[Lyssa]

update is done, thank you so much everyone for the noms as well as the discussion. here's what changed:

Rises:

:donphan: B+ -> A
:thundurus: B -> A
:gardevoir: B+ -> A-
:manaphy: B+ -> A-
:mandibuzz: B+ -> A-
:slither-wing: B+ -> A-
:arcanine-hisui: B -> B+
:clodsire: B -> B+
:serperior: B- -> B
:talonflame: B- -> B
:bisharp: C -> B-
:blissey: C -> B-
:ninetales-alola: C -> B-
:armarouge: UR -> C
:cresselia: UR -> C
:houndstone: UR -> C
:krookodile: UR -> C
:swampert: UR -> C
:thwackey: UR -> C

Drops:

:skarmory: A+ -> A
:hydrapple: A- -> B+
:revavroom: A- -> B+
:rotom-wash: A- -> B+
:iron-jugulis: B+ -> B
:zapdos-galar: B+ -> B
:bellibolt: B- -> C
:grimmsnarl: B- -> C

Additionally, Basculegion-F will be properly added to the OP as it got voted for C last time around but never got added there. If you have any questions in regards to the new placements or are curious about anything else at all feel free to ask either here or in the discord channel!

 

[MC Squared]

No one in A+ anymore. Interesting. So there's no Pokémon in UU that are meta defining enough to be A+? And also there's a surplus of C rank Pokémon over any higher rank.

 

[TheShowdownHero]

:hydrapple: A- -> B+

When you find out your goat is washed.

 

[hotpineapple]

:serperior: B -> B+

Over the past two months,I've been using alot of serp on the ladder,and i believe it has a very solid niche in the meta.


Leaf Storm is ludicrous as always,and with Choice Scarf,it can easily sweep past unassuming teams
There are obviously checks to a grass type attacker,but with the ability to be stronger the more you attack,it is capable of forcing huge damage on even quad resists like skarm and open up space for teammates to clean up
The exception to this being hydrapple and unaware mons,which can just eat up whatever you throw at it
Still,this is a very scary mon to play against and it should be at least B+

 

[scald spamm]

:empoleon: C -> B-
the best :latios: counter, luster purge activates competitive then your surfs are hard to switch in to
you can use it a rocker which pressures :donphan: , good into :mandibuzz: :fezandipiti:

you can knock :slowking: :Heavy-Duty_Boots: and empoleon really pairs good into hazard stack since defog activates competitive too

edit: you handle :weavile: relatively well if you have some defense investments

 

[Hilomilo]

My thoughts on new stuff:

:Heatran: to A/A-
This thing is honestly kinda weird, but also solid. I've toyed with a few different sets between air balloon/defensive/power herb. The defensive profile isn't as sturdy or consistent as you'd expect it to be, but offensive sets are strong. Magma Storm + Taunt is a nasty combo that forces great progress against checks. I think Solar Beam sets on sun teams are particularly strong/my favorite right now as they really restrict defensive counterplay. The abilities are also both nice for filling in various gaps in building. A or even A- feels safe for now. It holds a unique offensive identity and will always throw its weight around in a match thanks to its overall toolkit, but it suffers some clunky deficits that balance it out (I sorely wish this guy was a better Skarm punish).

:Tyranitar:to B+
B+ was its home before it rose to OU, which still feels apt. This guy isn't always an easy fit because it frankly doesn't check off as many building boxes as you'd expect it to. It still offers some nice qualities, including a strong knock, dissuading sun and veil teams, and enabling Excadrill and dedicated sand teams. Nothing meta-defining, but a decent progress maker and weather setter for sure.

My thoughts on potential rises:
:slither wing: A- to A
The HO economy is booming and Slither Wing has been a superstar on sun and veil teams. Booster Energy sets feel incredibly potent right now, though Scarf/Life Orb/boots are also great sets that diversify its options and restrict counterplay. This feels like a top offensive mon right now in terms of the sheer pressure it can generate from preview.

:Manaphy: A- to A
Manaphy feels extra potent as of late. HO being great = Manaphy being great. It's additionally really reaped the benefits of further moveset exploration, with Energy Ball/Rain Dance/Substitute/Take Heart all being excellent fourth slot options for turning the tables on its checks.

:Ninetales: B- to higher
Sun is good right now. UULT really showcased both sun's potency and room for exploration. Slither Wing and Harc have been explored more as abusers, Scovillain and Hilligant are popping up as potent chlorophyll mons, Solar Beam Heatran is back, and even with Ttar now in the tier the play style feels very realized in terms of potency and versatility. Looking at the stuff in B-, I think sun is a B-tier play style at minimum right now.

:ninetales-alola: B- to way higher
Perhaps the most urgent change that needs to happen. Veil is thriving lately, with ample exploration and tour usage to showcase its potency. With screens becoming the talk of the town, I see no reason for veil to be represented as low as B-.

:grimmsnarl: C to B-
Not nearly as potent as Alolatales, though I think Grimmsnarl still deserves some love in the wake of screens offenses rising. Priority Taunt is a huge boon while it can also do occasionally cool stuff like pivoting in on Latios STABs. If veil rises out of B-, Grimmsnarl would look fine there. Ban Light Clay.

My thoughts on potential drops:
:fezandipiti: A to A-
This feels less effective than it used to. Lots of sturdy steels are running around, tera steel CMers give it a hard time, and a lot of popular offensive picks can bypass it without much problem. Its passivity feels very exploitable as of late.

:Skeledirge: A- to B+
I'm less sure of this one tbh, but want to see how folks feel about it. Skeledirge often has to tera to reap the full benefits of its toolkit these days. The new drops kinda bite it in the ass, HO employs plentiful options that either bypass it or force it to tera, and it just doesn't force progress as freely as it used to. It's got a good foundation as a mon but the metagame is just sort of unkind to it.

Some stuff I think could be ranked:
:scovillain: UR to C/B-
Decent alternative to Venusaur on sun teams. Has seen sparing tour usage. Fire STAB hurts!

:entei: UR to C
Solid sun mon. Offers surprising utility between spreading burn/priority/crippling sun thwarters like Ttar. It needs removal support, but plays a good long game and can offer a decent alternative to Harc.

:haxorus: UR to C
Decent HO option that retains a strong matchup into fat, giving it a strong use case over DD Salamence. It also whacks every relevant fairy.

I also think A is feeling a bit bloated and a few things could rise to A+ (maybe Lokix, Donphan, Thundies, honestly Slowking) but don't have as strong or confident of opinions on that matter. I would be interested to hear other people's thoughts as well. That's it from me! Apologies for the long post! Ciao~

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

:lokix::skarmory::slowking: -> A+

While A+ is empty I think at least these 3 are prob the best to go there. First of lokix, its very solid and esp nice at revenging all the stupid shit that goes on in the tier and more recently spin + fog teams with CB kix have popped up and its been performing well esp vs the sun teams and the teams that dont really have a solid switch in aside from having smth like Skarmory, Toxapex, Clodsire but even then they kinda evaporate under tera bug esp with leech life or just u turn + hazard chip and Heatran is just one knock off away from being like almost dead. Especially vs the more offensive teams u can just snipe them often times.

Skarmory is doing the things it has done but of all mons in A i really think it does good, hazards are gonna matter a lot more now with heatran existing and especially to chip conk, CB kix and limit mons like scarf gard, esp with how well it sits on clodsire. In addition I think the stuff it brings to a team generally matter more.

Slowking seems to be also reasonable... it generally is seen on quite a bit of teams esp to hold of latios and its pivoting antics have always been valuable. In addition future sight support is still valuable and t wave to just slow down setup sweepers is always good. I think if i had to choose A+ mons it owuld be these ones and i believe they are not "lets toss them into A+ for the sake of it"

:heatran: -> A

Flame body shit is always gonna be valuable, offensive sets with magma + dark pulse + taunt will always be luring in slowking to eliminate it for teammates and funny flash fire balloon or even choiced sets on sun teams is gonna be funny to

:tyranitar: -> A-

I think CB tar is gonna be quite good, we lost quite a bit of stuff i feel like since tar was here and i feel some trends are better for it like sun and veil coming into play, less coba. I think CB sets willl always be quite strong esp when our dark resists are AV conk and defensive donphan.

:fezandipiti: -> A-

I think the initial hype has died off... and it should drop esp with heatran coming down, clodsire being more common, guts heatran not being very fun for the non moonblast sets, and mons like meta feasting on it. And i feel its ability to play into the rising of veil and sun isnt very good.

:gastrodon-east: -> B-

Way to overdue for a drop, to passive in my opinion esp when clod also exists and a combination of factors like being fother into either slowking, latios, skarmory, conk, cm keldeo, np hydrei, manaphy, HO in general, fez, clodsire, balloon rev, etc. To many nasty trends even with heatran dropping i dont think justifying gastrodon would mean much you want surf / earth power and sludge bomb / ice beam but even then u arent good enough.

:sandy shocks: -> B-

Vibe vise they feel off... thundurus being good means u dont want to slot it on ur team, donphan is a better ground, and as a ground this mon kinda sucks esp when it feels awkward to use. In addition donphan / clod / exca feel much better as a ground. Esp with stuff like AV conk, donphan , and latios being in the tier it feels not good.

:azumarill: -> UR

Manaphy took over on HO and AV azu isnt a thing esp when water absorb clod has become more of a thing, sinistcha is much better, and it doesnt do much....

:greninja: -> B

I think specs is good and BB is bad... but even then its not cutting it or at least it hasnt been having results / you have to click super super well and at that point use something else. I think its better than people think but i think its way past its prime

:Indeedee::armarouge:-> UR

Tyranitar and heatran exist... i really think they dont think they have a shot, slowking, manidbuzz, h-arc being more popular alr hurts this combo. I also think they just arent good anymore.. i dont think i saw them all throughout uult

 

[Jhall99]

:tyranitar: -> A-

I think CB tar is gonna be quite good, we lost quite a bit of stuff i feel like since tar was here and i feel some trends are better for it like sun and veil coming into play, less coba. I think CB sets willl always be quite strong esp when our dark resists are AV conk and defensive donphan.

Click to collapse...

Smooth Rock Fat Tar is pretty good too for Houndstone/Drill action, I’ve also tried out Brick Break in replacement to Low Kick since I feel like Low Kick is since it helps break screens. (I miss you, Superpower…)

I’ve been trying out CB Tar with double regen, Smooth Rock Tar with Rotom Wash, also another team with Talonflame.

 

[ASKOV]

:lokix::skarmory::slowking: -> A+

While A+ is empty I think at least these 3 are prob the best to go there. First of lokix, its very solid and esp nice at revenging all the stupid shit that goes on in the tier and more recently spin + fog teams with CB kix have popped up and its been performing well esp vs the sun teams and the teams that dont really have a solid switch in aside from having smth like Skarmory, Toxapex, Clodsire but even then they kinda evaporate under tera bug esp with leech life or just u turn + hazard chip and Heatran is just one knock off away from being like almost dead. Especially vs the more offensive teams u can just snipe them often times.

Skarmory is doing the things it has done but of all mons in A i really think it does good, hazards are gonna matter a lot more now with heatran existing and especially to chip conk, CB kix and limit mons like scarf gard, esp with how well it sits on clodsire. In addition I think the stuff it brings to a team generally matter more.

Slowking seems to be also reasonable... it generally is seen on quite a bit of teams esp to hold of latios and its pivoting antics have always been valuable. In addition future sight support is still valuable and t wave to just slow down setup sweepers is always good. I think if i had to choose A+ mons it owuld be these ones and i believe they are not "lets toss them into A+ for the sake of it"

:heatran: -> A

Flame body shit is always gonna be valuable, offensive sets with magma + dark pulse + taunt will always be luring in slowking to eliminate it for teammates and funny flash fire balloon or even choiced sets on sun teams is gonna be funny to

:tyranitar: -> A-

I think CB tar is gonna be quite good, we lost quite a bit of stuff i feel like since tar was here and i feel some trends are better for it like sun and veil coming into play, less coba. I think CB sets willl always be quite strong esp when our dark resists are AV conk and defensive donphan.

:fezandipiti: -> A-

I think the initial hype has died off... and it should drop esp with heatran coming down, clodsire being more common, guts heatran not being very fun for the non moonblast sets, and mons like meta feasting on it. And i feel its ability to play into the rising of veil and sun isnt very good.

:gastrodon-east: -> B-

Way to overdue for a drop, to passive in my opinion esp when clod also exists and a combination of factors like being fother into either slowking, latios, skarmory, conk, cm keldeo, np hydrei, manaphy, HO in general, fez, clodsire, balloon rev, etc. To many nasty trends even with heatran dropping i dont think justifying gastrodon would mean much you want surf / earth power and sludge bomb / ice beam but even then u arent good enough.

:sandy shocks: -> B-

Vibe vise they feel off... thundurus being good means u dont want to slot it on ur team, donphan is a better ground, and as a ground this mon kinda sucks esp when it feels awkward to use. In addition donphan / clod / exca feel much better as a ground. Esp with stuff like AV conk, donphan , and latios being in the tier it feels not good.

:azumarill: -> UR

Manaphy took over on HO and AV azu isnt a thing esp when water absorb clod has become more of a thing, sinistcha is much better, and it doesnt do much....

:greninja: -> B

I think specs is good and BB is bad... but even then its not cutting it or at least it hasnt been having results / you have to click super super well and at that point use something else. I think its better than people think but i think its way past its prime

:Indeedee::armarouge:-> UR

Tyranitar and heatran exist... i really think they dont think they have a shot, slowking, manidbuzz, h-arc being more popular alr hurts this combo. I also think they just arent good anymore.. i dont think i saw them all throughout uult

Click to collapse...

agree with most of those noms, only kinda disagree on sandy shocks because while its best mu (vs cb kix dual removal teams) might fall in usage with heatran in the tier, it's still an annoying rocks/spikes user for most stalls not using cyclizar and is still solid vs skarm spikestack teams (that i feel like can get back a bit of usage assuming suns ''nerf'' and veil getting teched on a bit more/getting into peoples radar) and is prob the best lead on vanilla HO, which even though it can a hard time vs some of the veil sweepers under screens it can still get rocks + at least one spike vs veils (or if they lead krook you can postpone their veil setup and force krook to not get rocks early if they wanna limit you to just getting rocks) and can hinder a lot of your usual veils pokes longevity/setup opportunities

 

[evantheskeptic]

c-->stay ranked
Ok. for those of you who know me from the ru vr thread;herscu is overrated there. and if my own conclusion was c/c+ there, why rank her at all in uu? Greninja is here, weavile, lokix, lots more darks that can threaten her compared to down in ru(and hydreigon bro). what can she actually offer compared to others that makes her worthy of still being ranked at this point? what niche? not just movepool and stats. if it's about ability to threaten skeledirge:gren does that but better. And gren as is pretty mid itself so why use a worse version of an already b tier Mon that not only competes with gren but also gets checked by gren. come on even scald spamm agrees with me my take is wise but, he said the vr team could take a while.

update:askov told me she has enough relevant traits, and the invitational usage. yeah rise instead of drop turns out a bit better than in ru. is what I would say if choice locking wasn't an issue and I meant that the plethora of darks make ghost stab less spammable into offense and they resist shadow ball, hydreigon also can take a surf and Greninja especially can take ice beam surf and shadow ball, that is what I meant by bringing up the darks. but still good enough to be ranked for threatening slowking(I guess but if locked into surf or ice beam getting exploited. I realized she's worthy of c after thinking b- hearing askov's explanation of what she does to be ranked)

other update, I felt bothered to do more:https://psim.us/r/smogtours-gen9uu-966963

a+-->s
Resto chesto cm was a solid tech for the invitational on top of the standard cm set. that's all I have to say aside from keldeo is a+ to begin with and considering it's influence on this tier I believe it should rise since I saw a chesto berry rest set for reliable recovery.

 

[ASKOV]

VR Ranks if they were 100% correlated to usage in the most recent uu invitational, only considering teams post manaphy ban

*only considered pokemon that got at least 3 usages for C Rank that has won at least once

S Rank

:latios:
:excadrill:

A+ Rank

:heatran:
:keldeo:
:mandibuzz:

A Rank

:donphan:
:tyranitar:
:skarmory:
:slither wing:
:thundurus:
:hydrapple:
:conkeldurr:
:metagross:

A- Rank

:clodsire:
:serperior:
:gardevoir:
:fezandipiti:
:azumarill:
:sinistcha:
:tinkaton:
:thundurus-therian:
:lokix:
:slowking:
:rotom-wash:
:scizor:

B+ Rank

:mamoswine:
:toxapex:
:iron jugulis:
:weavile:
:krookodile:
:talonflame:

B Rank

:cyclizar:
:greninja:
:ninetales-alola:
:arcanine-hisui:
:zapdos-galar:
:espeon:
:skeledirge:
:blissey:
:grimmsnarl:
:ninetales:
:bisharp:
:hippowdon:
:sandy shocks:
:cresselia:
:jirachi:

B- Rank

:basculegion-f:
:venusaur:
:hawlucha:
:gyarados:
:gastrodon:
:hydreigon:
:enamorus-therian:
:iron leaves:
:mienshao:
:mew:

C Rank

:pincurchin:
:revavroom:
:empoleon:
:suicune:
:thwackey:
:diancie:
:barraskewda:
:politoed:
:salamence:
:cobalion:
:reuniclus:
:gengar:

 

[ASKOV]

View attachment 860468c --> ur.
Ok. for those of you who know me from the ru vr thread;herscu is overrated there. and if my own conclusion was c/c+ there, why rank her at all in uu? Greninja is here, weavile, lokix, lots more darks that can threaten her compared to down in ru(and hydreigon bro). what can she actually offer compared to others that makes her worthy of still being ranked at this point? what niche? not just movepool and stats. if it's about ability to threaten skeledirge:gren does that but better. And gren as is pretty mid itself so why use a worse version of an already b tier Mon that not only competes with gren but also gets checked by gren. come on even scald spamm agrees with me my take is wise but, he said the vr team could take a while

Click to collapse...

Ghost stab matters a decent amount, not saying that dark stab isn't spammable but ghost resists that can also reasonably switch into water moves can be a bit harder to properly fit on teams. Unlike Greninja it has decent bulk and can be used as an offensive check to Pokemon like Slither Wing, Keldeo, Heatran, Revavroom, etc.

Also Specs Basculegion is significantly stronger as you can check from the calcs down below (didn't add something like lokix because they're not comparable at all aside from maybe hitting hard):

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Basculegion-F Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Slowking: 360-428 (91.3 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Slowking: 276-326 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Slowking: 314-372 (79.6 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

IMPORTANT: Again, not saying that Basculegion is better than those mentioned pokes in a vacuum, but it does have enough desirable aspects to be included on some specific teams while not being totally outclassed, thus having some sort of viability in the current meta

 

[scald spamm]

Hi sleepy team i think its been a long time since the vr is updated (i think you guys will do it after scl) but here are my thoughts on every mon in 1-2 lines.

(well i was secretly writing this to break the silence but ig i failed.)

S Tier:
:latios: : still the meta defining pokemon. you can always drop a specs draco but i think lati has started running calm mind to use heatran as a setup opportunity now.

A+ Tier:
:Weavile: : T axel is not so spammable now due to heatran but i still think it has mu vs most new style of teams also you can run low kick.

:Heatran: : Reliable progress maker and a shutdown to contact makers, you can also run spd set or in sun. it counters the fatass walls in uu very much and i like its addition.

:conkeldurr: : Mr.Trader. I have never seen this mon get 0 value the assault vest set is just so solid that i have nothing else to say.

:Excadrill: : It's the #2 most used pokemon and rightfully so, great sweeper in sand and the utility set helps it check common mons like lati. manaphy gone also helps this mon.

A tier:
:donphan: : 2nd best removal mon. you can safely go this thing to check physical attackers and a good knock user.

:keldeo: - its STABs are very clickable and the typing also helps it run the rocky helmet set which checks some contact maker

:thundurus: : fast pivot mon and a shutdown to setup sweeper in one slot. great typing also a good knock user, has tools to deal with the tiers ground types aswell.

:sinistcha: : staple on hazard stack teams, stun spore support is also good. This mon somehow also beats slither wings if not at low health.

:skarmory: : skarm is skarm. It does its job by checking physical walls and spike-ing up.

:slowking: : i feel this this is a mon which requires a core to function properly but not like it cant be used solo. good overall so A tier.

:slither_wing: : solid setup sweeper, good in sun. the only counters to this mon is to kill it before it gets out of control.

:Mandibuzz: solid mon and toxic spreader, generally i call this thing a "fatass". Walls many mons and u turn pivot support is always good.

A- Tier:
:Gardevoir: : best RU mon in the tier, trace helps it... trace good abilities and also a check to dragons and other metagame mons. bails you out sometimes when ur against weather.

:Hydreigon: : Nasty plotter.. im using earth power this new meta instead of meteor.

:Scizor: : i have seen my friends use av sciz, but i like the defog utility it provides and a good pivot mon.

:tyranitar: : it depends on choice but i like the CB set more, the SpD set is also good but i feel like that gets worn down over the match.

:lokix: : heatran being added definetly nerfed this mon but i still think you can beat it with the luck factor on your side and if heatran gets worn down during the match

:Skeledirge: : Dirgedoes it all, in some mu its literally impossible to break against tera fairy

:Arcanine-Hisui: : Nice attacker has no counter if you cant outspeed this thing or survive 3+ hits.

:Fezandipiti: : i will be honest i have never used this mon its in 0 of my teams and i generally dont find it annoying to deal with too, my friends use this mon to counter lokix so giving it A-.

:Thundurus_Therian: : the worse form, its slower than the 350 benchmark which the incarnate form has. is usable on veil but i generally still like i-form on veil too. volt absorb doesnt benefit this in the current metagame to justify its lower speed.



B+ Tier:
:metagross: : heatrans addition meant this thing couldnt click cb heavy slam freely anymore, still a good mon.

:clodsire: : this mon is a chud

:toxapex: : this thing is good but i havent seen crazy toxapex developement yet like shed shell... still happy this thing isnt top tier.

:talonflame: : this mon does not get affected by heatrans presence it can always u turn out, weavile check on non beat up sets and slither wings check on sun.

:Hydrapple: : Good physical wall imo only thing putting this thing back is that most teams have more than one resource to deal with it.

:iron_jugulis: : hey i like this mon and i think its underrated. hardly any non- blissey switches into this thing can say "yeah i beat this shi without taking significant damage"

:Rotom-Wash: : switch into magma storm switch out if they tera heatran. has mu vs sand and status support is good. i think it is busted vs fat teams.

:revavroom: : one trick mon

:Greninja: : Water typing is solid in the tier and dark to hit latios too and such a high speed stat!, yeah this looks so good unless you realize this thing gets walled by conkeldurr and weak vs the ever present priority in this tier.

B Tier:
:gastrodon: : good spike stacker losing toxic and scald hurted this mon and its viability.

:serperior: : actually thought this mon would be A- but then heatran dropped. does its job, status spreading is good also sub sets can get out of hand sometimes.

:sandy_shocks: : i think this is a great mon but it always invites lati on the field which keeps it from being the best.

:zapdos_galar: : feels like an underused mon in the underused tier, great cleaner in late game.

:jirachi: : one of the latios checks, i have seen this mon used in tours but its not like it has huge success.

:hippowdon: : fatass, i like how this mon beats sun and slither wings definetly has a niche and not forget can also set sand.

:ninetales: : the hot topic as of posting this now, not really sure.

B- Tier:

:cobalion: : well the team with which im top10 currently in ladder has sd cobalion lol, heatran completely took its job might pass this to ru.

:blissey: : cmon ill have to explain what blissey does?

:bisharp: : veil died so bisharp has fallen off too, still putting in b- cuz counters cha and lati

:salamence: : can go either route but i think i have seen defensive set v. less in gen9

:enamorus_therian: : idk this thing has tools but the speed makes it hard to function properly.

:venusaur: : putting it here like last tierlist

:mamoswine: : stabs compliment each other the only thing keeping it down though is the amount of waters in the tier

:ninetales_alola: : with manaphy gone this looks like borderline strat to me

:volcanion: : volcanion is good but countered by the #1 mon, ngl its the only downside i can find in this mon except mediocre speed.

C Tier:
it has many pokemon ig i wont write about everyone from C and below, niche mons.

---

My Rises with reference to current TL:

:heatran: : UR -> A+
:Tyranitar: : UR -> A-
:conkeldurr: : A -> A+
:excadrill: : A->A+
:slither_wing: : A- -> A
:arcanine_hisui: B+ -> A
:iron_jugulis: : B -> B+
:toxapex: : B -> B+
:hippowdon: : B- -> B
:jirachi: : B- -> B
:ninetales: : B- -> B

My drops with reference to current TL:

:Weavile: : S -> A+
:thundurus_therian: : A -> A-
:metagross: : A- -> B+
:lokix: : A -> A-

 

[Hilomilo]

S Rank
:Latios:
A+ Rank
:Conkeldurr::Excadrill::Heatran::Keldeo::Weavile:
A Rank
:Donphan::Lokix::Mandibuzz::Sinistcha::Skarmory::Slither Wing::Thundurus::Tyranitar:
A- Rank
:Arcanine-hisui::Fezandipiti::Gardevoir::Metagross::Ninetales::Scizor::Thundurus-therian::Tinkaton:
B+ Rank
:Clodsire::hydrapple::Hydreigon::Rotom-Wash::serperior::skeledirge::Talonflame::toxapex::venusaur:
B Rank
:azumarill::cresselia::gastrodon::greninja::hippowdon::iron jugulis::krookodile::mamoswine::ninetales-alola::revavroom::salamence::sandy shocks::zapdos-galar:
B- Rank
:barraskewda::basculegion-f::bisharp::Blissey::Cobalion::enamorus-therian::grimmsnarl::hawlucha::houndstone::jirachi::lilligant-hisui::mew::politoed::rhyperior::scovillain::suicune::swampert::volcanion:
C Rank
:araquanid::armarouge::chesnaught::cyclizar::ditto::empoleon::entei::gyarados::haxorus::indeedee::iron leaves::magnezone::mienshao::mimikyu::necrozma::reuniclus::ribombee::thwackey::torkoal::zoroark-hisui:

I won't cover all of this, but wanted to talk about a few significant rises and drops I have in mind. I wrote quite a bit, even for me, so I've put my nominations into hideboxes. Enjoy!

Rises

:Conkeldurr::Excadrill::Keldeo: A -> A+: I feel these three have all earned it. Conkeldurr trades with everything, is difficult not to get value out of thanks to its movepool and bulk, and particularly puts in work with AV giving it several strong matchups. Excadrill is very strong and splashable right now between the utility and sand sweeping sets. Keldeo's offensive profile is immensely potent into the current meta, while the innovation of Rocky Helmet has showcased its current malleability.

:Heatran: -> A+: I originally nominated this for A in July, but it's really popped off since then and emerged as a genuine metagame fixture. Magma Storm is an excellent progress maker, it offers a malleable defensive profile with use cases into Weavile/Lokix/sun teams depending on your ability, and it fits beautifully on sun teams itself. Turning the tables on checks like Slowking and Gastrodon depending on your moveset feels like cheating. This thing accomplishes so much in a match.

:Tyranitar: -> A: I also underrated this in my post a few months back. CB is a top-notch breaker with defensive applications to boot, deterring sun is great, its invitational showing yields a lot of promise, and sand support/bulkier sets are useful too. It could very well find itself in A+ and I wouldn't protest.

:Mandibuzz: A- -> A: This thing just has a really useful toolkit between its coveted Toxic access and decent matchups into annoying shit like Slither Wing and Sinistcha. Very easy to get value out of throughout a match.

:Slither Wing: A- -> A: This mf is lowkey A+ material but maybe I'm tripping. Choice Scarf is an amazing into Latios and Weavile, Booster Energy sets are still strong, and sun teams have this thing to thank for being so potent as of late. It's easily a top 10 mon and offensive fixture.

:Ninetales: B- -> A-: I imagine people will have incredibly varying opinions about where to rank Ninetales, including keeping it in B-, but I rate sun very highly and think its potency is genuinely reflected best in the low A ranks. The added punch this thing gives to Slither Wing, Harc, etc. is super valuable.

:Arcanine-hisui: B+ -> A-: Great breaker on sun, very accessible button clicker rn in general.

:Serperior: B -> B+: Even with Heatran and First Impression users in the tier, this guy prevails. Its utility movepool is excellent and makes it surprisingly self sufficient while additionally great at supporting its teammates. A- wouldn't be crazy I don't think.

:Talonflame: B -> B+: A solid matchup into Slither Wing is worth a lot these days. The combination of contact punishment and speed tier is awesome and quite unique to this thing.

:Azumarill: C -> B: This thing is a rising star of the metagame in recent weeks, especially given its invitational showing. Strong matchups into Conkeldurr, Keldeo, Weavile, and lots of other top shelf mons thanks to its typing being great on all fronts. Lots of offensive utility and it also fits much better on HO in a Manaphy-less world.

:Cresselia: C -> B: Further exploration has done a girl good. This thing has lots of use cases and the advantage of opponents not really knowing what to do with it a lot of the time. Lunar Dance goes crazy.

:Ninetales-alola: B- -> B, :Grimmsnarl: C -> B-: I think screens are still strong despite being less reliable than when Manaphy was here. Invitational has showcased Grimmsnarl's unique use cases over Ninetales, which I think are significant enough to pull it out of C rank hell. Priority Taunt and/or Parting Shot is sick, as are the really nice immunities to Latios STABs.

:Hippowdon::Mamoswine: B- -> B, :Krookodile: C -> B: Three grounds who all do different things that I think warrant B rank at this point in the meta. Hippowdon is very strong defensively rn and a great weather deterrent. Mamoswine is a wildly potent breaker with sufficient pivoting support, which is relatively easy to come by right now. Krookodile is another rising star as of late whom I think showcases the value of role compression in this meta. Btw rise Swampert too!

:Basculegion-f::Houndstone: C -> B-: Ghost-type STAB is broken!

:Barraskewda::politoed: C -> B-: This one could be totally delusional but don't sleep on rain! I've never hated it and think it is particularly potent right now. Perish trap Politoed is also super funny if you opt for it.

Drops

:Weavile: S -> A+: Conkeldurr/Heatran/scarf Slither Wing/helmet Keldeo all being great hurts this thing quite a bit, though the Speed tier and STABs still offer nigh unmatched offensive utility. It just doesn't look right next to Latios anymore.

:Thundurus-therian: A -> A-: The incarnate form feels more valuable with its highly useful Speed tier into Latios. This feels mostly relegated to pivoting sets nowadays, which are still strong but don't feel consistent or potent enough to sit alongside its brother in A.

:Hydreigon: A- -> B+: Maybe a hot take but AV Conk, Keldeo, First Impression mons, etc. all feel like they give this thing quite the hard time compared to its heyday a few months ago. Stuff like Azu rising also serves it no benefit.

:Skeledirge: A- -> B+: Maybe another hot take, but this feels hard to pilot or make progress with unless you use tera, which it then tends to hog up. A suspect matchup into Heatran also doesn't help.

:Greninja: B+ -> B: Washed.

:Revavroom: B+ -> B: I could see it staying in B+, but it feels like this guy's usage has dwindled a bit and it doesn't feel like an insta-fit on HOs the same way it once used to. That said, it is downright filthy into unprepared teams.

:Bellibolt: C -> UR: Does this do anything anymore? The potential value of contact punishment just doesn't feel worth the hassle of fitting this onto teams when there are better options for that niche.

Other Thoughts

:Metagross: Keep it in A-. Heatran makes Heavy Slam less spammable, but it can still generate a lot of value with cool stuff like Choice Scarf + Trick and a very malleable coverage movepool in general. It's still quite the consistent bulky attacker.

:Hydrapple: This is probably A- material again but I frankly don't use it enough to weigh in. All I know is this thing makes using Gastrodon a bitch!

:Gastrodon: Mixed feelings on this guy. A lot of grasses are getting better which forces Sludge Bomb spam to force progress, but it also offers a nice matchup into some Heatrans so I'm a little ambivalent on what exactly to do with this. Feels marginally worse than Clodsire but maybe not enough to truly drop, idfk.

 

[LilOu]

S Rank
:Latios:
A+ Rank
:Conkeldurr::Excadrill::Heatran::Keldeo::Weavile:
A Rank
:Donphan::Lokix::Mandibuzz::Sinistcha::Skarmory::Slither Wing::Thundurus::Tyranitar:
A- Rank
:Arcanine-hisui::Fezandipiti::Gardevoir::Metagross::Ninetales::Scizor::Thundurus-therian::Tinkaton:
B+ Rank
:Clodsire::hydrapple::Hydreigon::Rotom-Wash::serperior::skeledirge::Talonflame::toxapex::venusaur:
B Rank
:azumarill::cresselia::gastrodon::greninja::hippowdon::iron jugulis::krookodile::mamoswine::ninetales-alola::revavroom::salamence::sandy shocks::zapdos-galar:
B- Rank
:barraskewda::basculegion-f::bisharp::Blissey::Cobalion::enamorus-therian::grimmsnarl::hawlucha::houndstone::jirachi::lilligant-hisui::mew::politoed::rhyperior::scovillain::suicune::swampert::volcanion:
C Rank
:araquanid::armarouge::chesnaught::cyclizar::ditto::empoleon::entei::gyarados::haxorus::indeedee::iron leaves::magnezone::mienshao::mimikyu::necrozma::reuniclus::ribombee::thwackey::torkoal::zoroark-hisui:

I won't cover all of this, but wanted to talk about a few significant rises and drops I have in mind. I wrote quite a bit, even for me, so I've put my nominations into hideboxes. Enjoy!

Rises

:Conkeldurr::Excadrill::Keldeo: A -> A+: I feel these three have all earned it. Conkeldurr trades with everything, is difficult not to get value out of thanks to its movepool and bulk, and particularly puts in work with AV giving it several strong matchups. Excadrill is very strong and splashable right now between the utility and sand sweeping sets. Keldeo's offensive profile is immensely potent into the current meta, while the innovation of Rocky Helmet has showcased its current malleability.

:Heatran: -> A+: I originally nominated this for A in July, but it's really popped off since then and emerged as a genuine metagame fixture. Magma Storm is an excellent progress maker, it offers a malleable defensive profile with use cases into Weavile/Lokix/sun teams depending on your ability, and it fits beautifully on sun teams itself. Turning the tables on checks like Slowking and Gastrodon depending on your moveset feels like cheating. This thing accomplishes so much in a match.

:Tyranitar: -> A: I also underrated this in my post a few months back. CB is a top-notch breaker with defensive applications to boot, deterring sun is great, its invitational showing yields a lot of promise, and sand support/bulkier sets are useful too. It could very well find itself in A+ and I wouldn't protest.

:Mandibuzz: A- -> A: This thing just has a really useful toolkit between its coveted Toxic access and decent matchups into annoying shit like Slither Wing and Sinistcha. Very easy to get value out of throughout a match.

:Slither Wing: A- -> A: This mf is lowkey A+ material but maybe I'm tripping. Choice Scarf is an amazing into Latios and Weavile, Booster Energy sets are still strong, and sun teams have this thing to thank for being so potent as of late. It's easily a top 10 mon and offensive fixture.

:Ninetales: B- -> A-: I imagine people will have incredibly varying opinions about where to rank Ninetales, including keeping it in B-, but I rate sun very highly and think its potency is genuinely reflected best in the low A ranks. The added punch this thing gives to Slither Wing, Harc, etc. is super valuable.

:Arcanine-hisui: B+ -> A-: Great breaker on sun, very accessible button clicker rn in general.

:Serperior: B -> B+: Even with Heatran and First Impression users in the tier, this guy prevails. Its utility movepool is excellent and makes it surprisingly self sufficient while additionally great at supporting its teammates. A- wouldn't be crazy I don't think.

:Talonflame: B -> B+: A solid matchup into Slither Wing is worth a lot these days. The combination of contact punishment and speed tier is awesome and quite unique to this thing.

:Azumarill: C -> B: This thing is a rising star of the metagame in recent weeks, especially given its invitational showing. Strong matchups into Conkeldurr, Keldeo, Weavile, and lots of other top shelf mons thanks to its typing being great on all fronts. Lots of offensive utility and it also fits much better on HO in a Manaphy-less world.

:Cresselia: C -> B: Further exploration has done a girl good. This thing has lots of use cases and the advantage of opponents not really knowing what to do with it a lot of the time. Lunar Dance goes crazy.

:Ninetales-alola: B- -> B, :Grimmsnarl: C -> B-: I think screens are still strong despite being less reliable than when Manaphy was here. Invitational has showcased Grimmsnarl's unique use cases over Ninetales, which I think are significant enough to pull it out of C rank hell. Priority Taunt and/or Parting Shot is sick, as are the really nice immunities to Latios STABs.

:Hippowdon::Mamoswine: B- -> B, :Krookodile: C -> B: Three grounds who all do different things that I think warrant B rank at this point in the meta. Hippowdon is very strong defensively rn and a great weather deterrent. Mamoswine is a wildly potent breaker with sufficient pivoting support, which is relatively easy to come by right now. Krookodile is another rising star as of late whom I think showcases the value of role compression in this meta. Btw rise Swampert too!

:Basculegion-f::Houndstone: C -> B-: Ghost-type STAB is broken!

:Barraskewda::politoed: C -> B-: This one could be totally delusional but don't sleep on rain! I've never hated it and think it is particularly potent right now. Perish trap Politoed is also super funny if you opt for it.

Drops

:Weavile: S -> A+: Conkeldurr/Heatran/scarf Slither Wing/helmet Keldeo all being great hurts this thing quite a bit, though the Speed tier and STABs still offer nigh unmatched offensive utility. It just doesn't look right next to Latios anymore.

:Thundurus-therian: A -> A-: The incarnate form feels more valuable with its highly useful Speed tier into Latios. This feels mostly relegated to pivoting sets nowadays, which are still strong but don't feel consistent or potent enough to sit alongside its brother in A.

:Hydreigon: A- -> B+: Maybe a hot take but AV Conk, Keldeo, First Impression mons, etc. all feel like they give this thing quite the hard time compared to its heyday a few months ago. Stuff like Azu rising also serves it no benefit.

:Skeledirge: A- -> B+: Maybe another hot take, but this feels hard to pilot or make progress with unless you use tera, which it then tends to hog up. A suspect matchup into Heatran also doesn't help.

:Greninja: B+ -> B: Washed.

:Revavroom: B+ -> B: I could see it staying in B+, but it feels like this guy's usage has dwindled a bit and it doesn't feel like an insta-fit on HOs the same way it once used to. That said, it is downright filthy into unprepared teams.

:Bellibolt: C -> UR: Does this do anything anymore? The potential value of contact punishment just doesn't feel worth the hassle of fitting this onto teams when there are better options for that niche.

Other Thoughts

:Metagross: Keep it in A-. Heatran makes Heavy Slam less spammable, but it can still generate a lot of value with cool stuff like Choice Scarf + Trick and a very malleable coverage movepool in general. It's still quite the consistent bulky attacker.

:Hydrapple: This is probably A- material again but I frankly don't use it enough to weigh in. All I know is this thing makes using Gastrodon a bitch!

:Gastrodon: Mixed feelings on this guy. A lot of grasses are getting better which forces Sludge Bomb spam to force progress, but it also offers a nice matchup into some Heatrans so I'm a little ambivalent on what exactly to do with this. Feels marginally worse than Clodsire but maybe not enough to truly drop, idfk.

Click to collapse...

nice take. completely agree with most of the things here. but why greninja? i don't get why it's ranked so low

it's a nightmare to face for offensive teams that rely on sacking everything to get another threat in. the threat of battle bond activating in itself is something that influences the rhythm of the battle so much, even if it ends up not happening

lokix's and slither's first impression got nothing on protect gren, which has turned from an initially niche move to the standard set last months, as far as i can see

gren just owns end games after opposing team is weakened, WITHOUT needing to lose a turn to setup. battle bond's +1 speed on an already incredibly fast mon feels ridicolous. unrevengable, unless you got e-speed or mach punch...and even i have faced tera ghost gren. freaking demon, man. i got owned.

there are games where gren wasn't even my wincon - i was just trying to enable another mon for a sweep. but the opportunity to kill something with gren just popped out of nowhere and OH, scrap the previous plan. guess now gren is my wincon. free candy tbh.

i just feel that people have just forgotten how incredibly good it still is.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

nice take. completely agree with most of the things here. but why greninja? i don't get why it's ranked so low

it's a nightmare to face for offensive teams that rely on sacking everything to get another threat in. the threat of battle bond activating in itself is something that influences the rhythm of the battle so much, even if it ends up not happening

lokix's and slither's first impression got nothing on protect gren, which has turned from an initially niche move to the standard set last months, as far as i can see

gren just owns end games after opposing team is weakened, WITHOUT needing to lose a turn to setup. battle bond's +1 speed on an already incredibly fast mon feels ridicolous. unrevengable, unless you got e-speed or mach punch...and even i have faced tera ghost gren. freaking demon, man. i got owned.

there are games where gren wasn't even my wincon - i was just trying to enable another mon for a sweep. but the opportunity to kill something with gren just popped out of nowhere and OH, scrap the previous plan. guess now gren is my wincon. free candy tbh.

i just feel that people have just forgotten how incredibly good it still is.

Click to collapse...

ive never seen gren do much at all... and frequently it often ends up just missing stuff out in games it gets used. Like missing ko's or just not doing enough even when it uses coverage like extrasensory.

I think while its scary for offensive teams .. they have adapted to be more screens rather than hazard HO so they often have bulk to take it on.

Keldeo being top tier, av conk being up there, mandibuzz running sp. def, slowking being able to take a hit and t wave, azumarill getting a bit more usage, clodsire being able to sit on its ass, fez eating it.

I think specs gren is best gren esp with how it can just power through stuff with specs sludge wave into keldeo and surf or ice beam shredding stuff but i think that requires more testing. I also think gren being 122, weavile being 125 also isnt good for it

 

[Hilomilo]

Hey everyone! For old time's sake I'll be covering this update Changes are listed below with reasonings in hideboxes. Enjoy!

New Pokemon
:Heatran: -> A+
:Tyranitar: -> A+

Rises
:Keldeo: A -> A+
:Slither Wing: A- -> A
:Arcanine-Hisui: B+ -> A-
:Hydrapple: B+ -> A-
:Serperior: B -> B+
:Toxapex: B -> B+
:Azumarill: C -> B
:Hippowdon: B- -> B
:Mamoswine: B- -> B
:Ninetales: B- -> B
:Ninetales-Alola: B- -> B
:Salamence: B- -> B
:Venusaur: B- -> B
:Basculegion-F: C -> B-
:Cresselia: C -> B-
:Hawlucha: C -> B-
:Lilligant-Hisui: C -> B-
:Cyclizar: UR -> C
:Iron Leaves: UR -> C
:Mienshao: UR -> C
:Necrozma: UR -> C
:Pincurchin: UR -> C
:Ribombee: UR -> C
:Scovillain: UR -> C
:Umbreon: UR -> C

Drops
:Weavile: S -> A+
:Fezandipiti: A -> A-
:Thundurus-Therian: A -> A-
:Greninja: B+ -> B

rises

:Heatran: -> A+: By virtue of a powerful overall toolkit, Heatran has developed into a metagame fixture. It circumvents most would-be checks with the combination of Magma Storm + Taunt or coverage, offers a great defensive profile into Lokix/Weavile or sun teams depending on its ability, and has the capacity to excel both offensively and defensively. Its invitational showing has cemented its staple status and showcased its many applications.

:Tyranitar: -> A+: Tyranitar forces consistent progress, deters opposing weathers excellently, accrues chip damage throughout a match like few others, and offers defensive utility to boot. Its CB set has particularly proven potent, 2HKOing the bulk of the metagame. Invitational has illustrated its many applications and helped solidify its status as a top-shelf performer in the metagame.

:Keldeo: A -> A+: Keldeo excels these days with its potent STAB attacks, ability to restrict counterplay with coverage and its natural progress making abilities, and lots of customizability as illustrated by Rocky Helmet becoming a meta option.

:Slither Wing: A- -> A: An undeniable superstar of the recent metagame, Slither Wing generates fantastic pressure against top threats with its Choice Scarf set, defines the highly potent sun as a key player of the archetype, and has shaped recent trends like Talonflame’s incremental rise.

:Arcanine-Hisui: B+ -> A-: Harc’s breaking power is very accessible right now given sun’s potency and its ability to capitalize on various defensive pieces like Skeledirge and Talonflame.

:Hydrapple: B+ -> A-: A strong invitational showing has put this guy back into the fray. Regen/tera/coverage allow it to trade with the majority of top threats, while its natural defensive profile is very helpful into Keldeo, Thundurus, and Excadrill.

:Serperior: B -> B+: One of many rising stars of recent weeks, Serperior can tap into its utility movepool to both be self-sufficient and support its teammates rather well. Another Grass-type with a strong invitational showing and quite a few A- votes to boot.

:Toxapex: B -> B+: Fairly useful lately for checking Keldeo, spreading poison, and scouting popular choice users like Lokix and Tyranitar.

:Azumarill: C -> B: Making a sizable rise after months of being inconsequential, Azumarill’s typing and power generate a lot of value into Keldeo/Slither Wing/Conkeldurr/Weavile. Booming invitational usage has showcased its surge to relevancy and many use cases. It’s a great time to be a Water/Fairy-type.

:Hippowdon: B- -> B: The hippo is a strong defensive option right now for its sturdiness into threats like Tyranitar/Excadrill/Lokix and consistency as a weather deterrent.

:Mamoswine: B- -> B: Very good breaker with a fair invitational showing. It’s become easier to pilot with many strong options for pivots running around.

:Ninetales: B- -> B: Votes were all over the map for this thing, ranging from B- to A-. Sun is particularly potent lately and Ninetales is the best means of supporting archetype staples like Slither Wing and Hisuian Arcanine.

:Ninetales-Alola: B- -> B: Even in a post-Manaphy metagame, veil can prove fairly potent with many good options like Slither Wing and Thundurus to capitalize on Alolatales’ support with.

:Salamence: B- -> B: Solid offensive option with strong defensive applicability to boot, particularly offering a nice matchup into Slither Wing but also certain Keldeo/Lokix/Excadrill sets.

:Venusaur: B- -> B: Venusaur earns a rise as the best Chlorophyll abuser on sun teams, providing strong synergy with other sun nukes like Slither Wing and Hisuian Arcanine.

:Basculegion-F: C -> B-: Basculegion is steadily rising as a fierce offensive pick with respectable tour usage, capitalizing on the lack of sturdy Ghost-resists running around and plowing through the existing ones with powerful Water-type moves.

:Cresselia: C -> B-: Cresselia is another rising star, albeit a little more gradually than some others. It was only a few votes off from B rank, offering an excellent utility toolkit that further exploration has helped showcase.

:Hawlucha: C -> B-: More currently potent and useful than C rank conveys. Unburden is a broken ability.

:Lilligant-Hisui: C -> B-: Another chlorophyll user on sun with many unique advantages over its competition, including coveted Healing Wish access and the ability to pressure common stopgaps to sun like Tyranitar and Heatran.

:Cyclizar: UR -> C: Useful regen mon on primarily stall thanks to the combination of spin, knock, and a uniquely useful set of resistances.

:Iron Leaves: UR -> C: Sporadic invitational usage has helped illustrate its offensive potency, warranting a starting rank of C.

:Mienshao: UR -> C: Another mon with sparing invitational usage and a relatively unique niche. Regen/knock/u-turn is an amazing combo for progress making, who knew?

:Necrozma: UR -> C: Necrozma rejoins the C ranks after sparing tour usage has highlighted its unique offensive capabilities and capacity to frequently surprise its opponent.

:Pincurchin: UR -> C: Electric Terrain has demonstrated some success in invitational, warranting a rank for Pincurchin and the wholly unique support it provides.

:Ribombee: UR -> C: Speedy Webs gives it a niche, though its typing and movepool can yield other useful benefits that further differentiate it from Araquanid.

:Scovillain: UR -> C: Sun good.

:Umbreon: UR -> C: Umbreon claims a niche as a decent defensive piece, offering a useful profile into threats like Thundurus and Excadrill alongside coveted Toxic access.

drops

:Weavile: S -> A+: Not as centralizing or consistent with Heatran/Conkeldurr/helmet Keldeo/Slither Wing all having their moment. It has seen notably low invitational usage compared to previous iterations of the metagame and other top tier Pokemon, reflecting its recent drop off.

:Fezandipiti: A -> A-: Still strong, but has lost some consistency as metagame pacing has changed, Heatran has grown into a staple, and many Fighting-types have developed methods of bypassing it.

:Thundurus-Therian: A -> A-: Regular Thundurus gives it a lot of recent competition given its key Speed tier into Latios and Keldeo. NP sets are still reeling from the Tera Blast ban.

:Greninja: B+ -> B: BB sets are often hard to pilot due to its lacking power/4mss/proneness to priority, while Protean sets face competition from Keldeo and other special attackers with more immediate power and/or defensive utility.

 

[evantheskeptic]

View attachment 674204
This amazing art was created by Kolohe, thank you so much!!

Hosted by ThatOneApple and Lyssa​

Hello and welcome to the DLC 2 Scarlet and Violet UU Viability Rankings!

For those who are unfamiliar, in the Viability Rankings we come together as a community with a goal to rank every viable Pokemon within the SV UU metagame into ranks indicating their dominance and effect in the tier. This can serve as a great resource for teambuilding by essentially being a threat list, helping newer players understand which is the best Pokemon to use and what to account for while building. Any user is encouraged to post in this thread and share their thoughts on rankings that should be changed, which our lovely viability ranking team will read and discuss as we schedule VR updates. There is no set schedule for VR updates, but rather when we determine that the current rankings may be an inaccurate representation of the current metagame. There also is the possibility of mini updates which can be quick metagame changes that should directly happen without needing to conduct a full slate. The current viability council is below:

The current VR team is:

• :Hydrapple: ThatOneApple (Host)
• :iron jugulis: Lyssa (Host)
• :slither wing: Catcus
• :raikou: Estarossa
• :metagross: Mossy Sandwich
• :Clodsire: Corperate n
• etern
• :Tinkaton: mintwinter
• Sabella

The ranking descriptions for what each rank means and what the characteristics are of Pokemon in these ranks are in the below spoiler:

Ranking Descriptions

S and S-: The best of the best Pokemon, being extremely splashable and versatile, having high consistency, and shaping the tier’s development. Their dominance has a notable effect on teambuilding and the dynamics of the tier. S- Pokemon are Pokemon that are a step above the rest of the A+ Pokemon but may not be as centralizing or potent as another S tier.
A+ and A: Great and metagame defining Pokemon that have exceptional prowess and must be accounted for while building. They are not as defining as S rank Pokemon, but are still strong Pokemon that most teams should make use of. A rank Pokemon have similar traits to A+ Pokemon but may be held back due to performance or usage.
A- and B+: These are Pokemon that still have an impactful role in the metagame and should still be accounted for, but lack the consistency and/or potency to be ranked any higher. Pokemon in B+, while part of the metagame, do not always have to necessarily be accounted for at times due to their limited presence.
B: Generally the lowest ranking of Pokemon considered to be solid and potent options in the tier, these Pokemon operate decently within the metagame but have enough notable flaws to keep them from being tier staples. This rank may also feature Pokemon that have potential for potency in the metagame, but are too unexplored to warrant a higher rank.
B-: Pokemon in this rank are without a doubt viable, but have noticeable flaws and restrictions that limit splashability and usage in the tier while not being too consistent either. Still, they have potent enough niches to avoid being ranked in the lowest of ranks.
C: These Pokemon have roles in the metagame that are generally outclassed for the most part, but still have enough relevance and usefulness in the metagame to warrant a ranking. Still, they could be subject to simple removals from the VR at any time.
D: Lastly, Pokemon in D rank are UU by usage but completely unviable. Discussion on D rank Pokemon is prohibited.

When nominating changes to happen in this VR PLEASE avoid personal biases and instead use information such as trends working for or against this Pokemon as well as usage to support your claim. Note usage does not always equal viability. There is a correlation, but just because Donphan got more usage last month than Toxapex on the ladder does not mean it is a better Pokemon; tournament usage stats are generally better support for nominations. For nominating unranked Pokemon to be ranked, consider a few things: Does this have enough of a distinguishable niche in the metagame? (meaning does what it performs act differently enough from another ranked Pokemon). Also, should the first criteria be met, is this niche relevant enough in the current metagame? A good nomination of an unranked Pokemon would be here. Replays are also great tools to help support a nomination and are required to nominate an unranked Pokemon. And with that, here are our viability rankings! Happy posting!

S Rank

Latios

Weavile

A+ Rank

A Rank
View attachment 753538Conkeldurr
View attachment 753532Donphan
View attachment 753513Excadrill
View attachment 753576Fezandipiti
View attachment 753545Keldeo
View attachment 753580Lokix
View attachment 753582Sinistcha
View attachment 753533Skarmory
View attachment 753516Slowking

Thundurus
View attachment 753514Thundurus-Therian

A- Rank
View attachment 753523Gardevoir
View attachment 753543Hydreigon
View attachment 753572Mandibuzz
View attachment 753534Metagross

Scizor
View attachment 753579Skeledirge
View attachment 753573Slither Wing
View attachment 755133Tinkaton

B+ Rank
View attachment 753502Arcanine-Hisui
View attachment 753569Clodsire
View attachment 753527Gastrodon
View attachment 753546Greninja
View attachment 753577Hydrapple
View attachment 753567Revavroom
View attachment 753531Rotom-Wash

B Rank
View attachment 753570Iron Jugulis
View attachment 753571Sandy Shocks
View attachment 753537Serperior

Talonflame
View attachment 753564Toxapex
View attachment 753517Zapdos-Galar

B- Rank

Bisharp
View attachment 753521Blissey
View attachment 753544Cobalion
View attachment 753563Enamorus-Therian
View attachment 753528Hippowdon
View attachment 753526Jirachi
View attachment 753530Mamoswine
View attachment 753520Mew
View attachment 753501Ninetales

Ninetales-Alola
View attachment 753529Rhyperior
View attachment 753525Salamence
View attachment 753500Venusaur
View attachment 753547Volcanion

C Rank

Araquanid

Armarouge
View attachment 753518Azumarill
View attachment 753566Barraskewda

Basculegion-F
View attachment 753583Bellibolt
View attachment 753581Chesnaught

Cresselia

Ditto

Empoleon
View attachment 753555Goodra-Hisui
View attachment 753557Grimmsnarl
View attachment 753554Gyarados
View attachment 753574Hawlucha

Houndstone
View attachment 753558Indeedee

Krookodile
View attachment 753539Lilligant-Hisui

Magnezone

Mimikyu
View attachment 753551Politoed
View attachment 753541Reuniclus

Suicune

Swampert

Thwackey

Torkoal

Toxtricity
View attachment 753540Zoroark-Hisui

Join the UU Discord for live discussion and updates in our VR channel!
<< Server Link >>​

Click to collapse...

uhhh, I think you might wanna make the vr update official and edit the op
:Greninja: b to idk
I have no idea where to put you honestly. lilou says you're still great but hydreigonthechild says you haven't been relevant in a long time. it's complicated
I deleted the basc-f nom because;my anti basc-f campaign is more for ru than here
:lokix: :Weavile: switch ranks.
You can see the metagame discussion for more details. weavile is much more manageable than lokix is without protect(which many of the set up sweepers in the tier wouldn't run if not for lokix)

 

[Lycopoky]

Hello UU community! I'm going to make some nominations here that I feel like are deserved. Originally I wanted to make one of these posts sooner but I thought that waiting for an update to the VR would be better, so now that it was updated a while ago I can finally go over them.

RISES

:excadrill: A -> A+
I'm kind of surprised it didn't rise, Tyranitar dropping made Sand Rush sets a lot better now that it doesn't have to run Hippowdon, and Utility sets are still solid options. It also helps beat common Pokemon like Latios and Ground/Steel type is never bad. Sure stuff like Skarm, Donphan, and Keldeo are all problems, but Excadrill is also very splashable and these roles are pretty nice and it doesn't need to beat a majority of the meta to be A+.

:Skarmory: A -> A+
From what I see in this thread this is a hotter take, but Skarmory feels very nice to use, walling the likes of Excadrill, Lokix, Conkeldurr, Tyranitar (unless it's CB and gets lucky with Stone Edge), Donphan, Weavile, etc. is super valuable and with Roost it can do this pretty reliably, it's also very good at setting up hazards and can even run Iron Defence if you want to wall things harder and/or do more damage with Body Press. Whirlwind can even just force switches so you can try switch in an answer into it but it forces the answer off of the field and get more chip with it's hazards. Sure special attackers with Electric and/or Fire coverage can feel pretty rough but overall it feels like a very solid Pokemon to me.

:Mandibuzz: A- -> A
Feels weird to also not see it rise either. It's very good at removing hazards with Defog, can spread Toxic and naturally chip down a lot of Pokemon and, Foul Play can be pretty nice against physical attackers like Excadrill, Scizor, Metagross and even some special attackers like Slowking. Specially defensive sets are really nice if you want to switch into Latios (even if the Latios player can take advantage of this mon needing to Roost up) but Physdef is also nice for the physical attackers as well. Bulkier teams really this guy a lot.

I'm not going to go over any drops I would make, because frankly I have 0 idea which Pokemon I can confidently drop and I think the VR, for the most part, is pretty accurate on the tier placements. I just disagree with a few placements but even then I think it's natural to disagree with any tier list a bit.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

:serperior: -> A

:serperior::pmd/serperior::bw/serperior::sm/Serperior::bw/serperior::pmd/serperior::serperior:

Well... this is a jump but i think the traits justify it easily it has many sets and it can easily somewhat navigate around its checks and its quite easy to target mons like hydrapple (who is not as popular), skarmory cant take leaf storms forever esp with leech seed / glare paralysis, and mons like Mandibuzz cannot even break the substitute.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-986384
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-985009
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-984182
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-974860 (pretty sure its been commented on that it was d pulse serp)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-973136
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-971401

Glare is quite huge, it can easily just make things much easier to deal with like a fezandipiti which is paralyzed is much worse at dealing with lokix long term as it can be paralyzed on recovery turns, skarmory being paralyzed allows something like CB meta or donphan to wail on it muhc more effectively / keep hazards off, while something like Latios, Talonflame, Scarf Metagross being paralyzed goes long into allowing a team to get away with things they wouldnt otherwise / cripple them. Knock Off is another huge thing, Fezandipiti, Talonflame, Mandibuzz, Skeledirge all hate losing their item its quite easy to see how serp uses knock off to great effect esp when it allows teammates to run them over.

While serp isnt very initially strong, sub seed sets spamming leaf storm can indeed take over games like here

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-987370?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2707345536

I think this mon is definitely worth of an A tier ranking

 

[evantheskeptic]

:serperior: -> A
View attachment 874266

:serperior::pmd/serperior::bw/serperior::sm/Serperior::bw/serperior::pmd/serperior::serperior:

Well... this is a jump but i think the traits justify it easily it has many sets and it can easily somewhat navigate around its checks and its quite easy to target mons like hydrapple (who is not as popular), skarmory cant take leaf storms forever esp with leech seed / glare paralysis, and mons like Mandibuzz cannot even break the substitute.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-986384
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-985009
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-984182
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-974860 (pretty sure its been commented on that it was d pulse serp)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-973136
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-971401

Glare is quite huge, it can easily just make things much easier to deal with like a fezandipiti which is paralyzed is much worse at dealing with lokix long term as it can be paralyzed on recovery turns, skarmory being paralyzed allows something like CB meta or donphan to wail on it muhc more effectively / keep hazards off, while something like Latios, Talonflame, Scarf Metagross being paralyzed goes long into allowing a team to get away with things they wouldnt otherwise / cripple them. Knock Off is another huge thing, Fezandipiti, Talonflame, Mandibuzz, Skeledirge all hate losing their item its quite easy to see how serp uses knock off to great effect esp when it allows teammates to run them over.

While serp isnt very initially strong, sub seed sets spamming leaf storm can indeed take over games like here

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-987370?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2707345536

I think this mon is definitely worth of an A tier ranking

Click to collapse...

Greatly appreciate the essay. You also got an a;from me

:dedenne:I don't even believe i'm saying this;ur to c-/c
What gives this thing it's niche you ask? gapdos.latios and thundurus

the set I crafted but didn't test

Dedenne @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Assault Vest
Ability: Cheek Pouch
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch/Parabolic Charge
- Draining Kiss
- Grass Knot
- Nuzzle

calcs for boots volt switch

252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Brave Bird/Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dedenne: 148-175 (53.8 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Dedenne Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zapdos-Galar: 132-156 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dedenne: 80-95 (29 - 34.5%) -- 7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Zapdos-Galar U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dedenne: 58-68 (21 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
nuzzle is for getting a para on gapdos.
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dedenne: 204-241 (74.1 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
yes this thing can take a specs surf from Latios somehow;and get off a nuzzle. then draining kiss or volt Switch out.
luster purge ohkos but draco does nothing. I wanted to check one thing;now I ended up beating something else somewhat.
252 SpA Soul Dew Latios Psychic Noise vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dedenne: 204-241 (74.1 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(for calm mind, yeah getting a nuzzle seems to be pretty easy so far considering the bare minimum is to take one hit)
aside from eq slither wing can't ohko it without sun, so yeah;farming easy nuzzles versus some relevant stuff.(gapdos isn't that relevant I saw the vr but slither wing and Latios are).
even tanks non specs surf;252 SpA Keldeo Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dedenne: 204-240 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(specs risks being locked into a move other than surf) so yeah;nuzzling is still smooth unless it's orb keldeo;252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dedenne: 265-312 (96.3 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO even then keldeo could click icy wind;252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dedenne: 109-129 (39.6 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO freebie for the nuzzlie.

Grass knot is obviously for grounds. I could have done parabolic charge and av

parabolic vest calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dedenne: 204-240 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Luster Purge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dedenne: 216-255 (78.5 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dedenne: 198-234 (72 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
136+ SpA Hydrapple Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dedenne: 174-206 (63.2 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dedenne: 153-181 (55.6 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Gardevoir Psychic Noise vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dedenne: 121-144 (44 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Gardevoir Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dedenne: 81-96 (29.4 - 34.9%) -- 13.7% chance to 3HKO
+4 152+ SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dedenne: 227-267 (82.5 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Iron Jugulis Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dedenne: 174-206 (63.2 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dedenne: 174-205 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Protean Greninja Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dedenne: 368-434 (133.8 - 157.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO(sludge wave is the only way for gren to ohko the av version dedenne, and I didn't even do any special bulk investment)

Sv competitive is nuts. i'm nomming dedenne of all Pokemon;DEDENNE! sure I have a somewhat logical basis but pretty much anything can be viable these days if you really wanna think about it. niches are findable in anything;you just gotta really look for them. I found a Latios check people. one that might actually be decent into the rest of the tier. I know replays are reccomended but since i'm the one with the dedenne vision you can't even find a replay of the sets I used in public that's high enough on ladder to count;or one at all.
now for something that's probably gonna get more care in the world;https://psim.us/r/gen9uu-2710159504
https://psim.us/r/gen9uu-2706317978
:breloom: ur to c
Nice technician alternative to scizor that has rock tomb to slow the opposing mons down. and it has stab on close combat;which Scizor doesn't. grass stab matters a great deal. and mach punch is better into heatran than bullet punch(by a landslide).
:weavile: a+ to a
to be fair it really does need that tera. can't fit protect and low kick on sd sets(unless you ditch either knock off or axel;both of which are mandatory moves). without the tera it's pretty frail and prone to a lot of stuff. And the defensive tera types it actually uses are pretty specific
:zapdos-galar: b to b+
Hydreigonthechild summed up the rest talk set pretty well in the uu metagame discussion thread;check that out it's what motivated me to do this. beats body press skarm;non ice punch conk, mandibuzz, etc.
:goodra-hisui: c to b-/b
Again;see the metagame discussion(hydreigonthechild's post), good into serp, lots of coverage options to hit lots of stuff, and draco + a steel move. trending really

 

[wssi]

:Weavile: : A+ -> S rank.