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Projects National Dex Ubers Teambuilding Competition
- Thread starter Sami
- Start date
:groudon-primal: :ho-oh: :arceus-fairy: :zygarde-complete: :marshadow: :necrozma-ultra:
special pdon using a modified version of the 112 atk spread ft. dd zygarde and rocks unec, didnt test it a ton but got a few wins vs real teams on ladder using it so its good enough. stone edge over rock polish is justifiable to ease an admittedly shaky ho-oh matchup
special pdon using a modified version of the 112 atk spread ft. dd zygarde and rocks unec, didnt test it a ton but got a few wins vs real teams on ladder using it so its good enough. stone edge over rock polish is justifiable to ease an admittedly shaky ho-oh matchup
Last edited:
:Groudon-primal: :Kyogre-primal: :Cresselia: :Arceus: :Melmetal: :Hatterene:
When thinking about what to submit the first thing that popped into my head was trick room. Trick room allows me to use my favorite Groudon set which was eruption to its fullest capability. I went with solar beam over SD (even though SD is also useable) mainly to help with tera water mons like Garg, Zygarde, and Giratina that stop Melmetal from spamming tera steel double iron bash and we round the set off with edge for Ho-Oh and blades for a strong second stab. I have standard offensive Kyogre with CM over water spout and standard Melmetal. Roar on Arceus is to force out dtail Zygarde and WW Ho-Oh so that I can set up trick room without being forced out myself, while defog helps with hazards and screens. To round it off we have both Hatt and Cresselia to also set up trick room and pass healing wish/lunar dance.
When thinking about what to submit the first thing that popped into my head was trick room. Trick room allows me to use my favorite Groudon set which was eruption to its fullest capability. I went with solar beam over SD (even though SD is also useable) mainly to help with tera water mons like Garg, Zygarde, and Giratina that stop Melmetal from spamming tera steel double iron bash and we round the set off with edge for Ho-Oh and blades for a strong second stab. I have standard offensive Kyogre with CM over water spout and standard Melmetal. Roar on Arceus is to force out dtail Zygarde and WW Ho-Oh so that I can set up trick room without being forced out myself, while defog helps with hazards and screens. To round it off we have both Hatt and Cresselia to also set up trick room and pass healing wish/lunar dance.
Ditto and Scary Friends Offense
https://pokepast.es/7640489295f91abd
:Ditto::Zacian-Crowned::Eternatus::Groudon-Primal::Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Giratina-Origin:
Explanation:
I will admit, this team was not originally built for the teambuilding competition. I was simply bored at some point earlier this week and decided I wanted to build an Offense team with Ditto. Putting together the 6 Pokemon of the team was a pretty straightforward process. Zacian-C is one of the best offense and offense Pokemon in the game, keeping in check many fast and scary threats. Play Rough was used over the usual Behemoth Blade due to its coverage spread and better Imposter-proofing. Specs Eternatus is one of the most terrifying Balance breakers in the tier, and is often able to put a dent in even some of the bulkiest teams. Being a Toxic absorber is also very nice utility. Primal Groudon is running a Utility Swords Dance set. Spikes was chosen over Stealth rock since Ultra Necrozma is already running it. It notably allows htis team to have an easier time breaking through bulkier archetypes. Stone Edge is used to OHKO Ho-Oh without a boost. Necrozma-DM is running its Ultra Stealth Rock set and is a highly effective breaker and hazard setter. Giratina-O is used as a Defogger and a check to threats like Groudon and Extreme Killer Arceus. I chose to run a physical set for its phazing and greater immediate power with Poltergeist. While this allows Giratina-O to be abused by Zygarde, I do not believe the team overall is particularly weak to Zygarde, as Zygarde is pressured rather hard by most of the team.
https://pokepast.es/7640489295f91abd
:Ditto::Zacian-Crowned::Eternatus::Groudon-Primal::Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Giratina-Origin:
Explanation:
I will admit, this team was not originally built for the teambuilding competition. I was simply bored at some point earlier this week and decided I wanted to build an Offense team with Ditto. Putting together the 6 Pokemon of the team was a pretty straightforward process. Zacian-C is one of the best offense and offense Pokemon in the game, keeping in check many fast and scary threats. Play Rough was used over the usual Behemoth Blade due to its coverage spread and better Imposter-proofing. Specs Eternatus is one of the most terrifying Balance breakers in the tier, and is often able to put a dent in even some of the bulkiest teams. Being a Toxic absorber is also very nice utility. Primal Groudon is running a Utility Swords Dance set. Spikes was chosen over Stealth rock since Ultra Necrozma is already running it. It notably allows htis team to have an easier time breaking through bulkier archetypes. Stone Edge is used to OHKO Ho-Oh without a boost. Necrozma-DM is running its Ultra Stealth Rock set and is a highly effective breaker and hazard setter. Giratina-O is used as a Defogger and a check to threats like Groudon and Extreme Killer Arceus. I chose to run a physical set for its phazing and greater immediate power with Poltergeist. While this allows Giratina-O to be abused by Zygarde, I do not believe the team overall is particularly weak to Zygarde, as Zygarde is pressured rather hard by most of the team.
:groudon-primal::ho-oh::arceus-dragon::zygarde::yveltal::kyogre-primal:
Check it out, I made an Arceus Dragon team that doesn't need a second shitmon.
I'm usually not a fan of offensive Primal Groudon, but this round gave me the chance to fulfill a concept I've had for a bit. This team was built around offensive Primal Groudon, Choice Scarf Yveltal, and Arceus Dragon. I was originally planning on using Offensive Support Primal Groudon because the original idea was to take advantage of Zygarde being encouraged to Tera Fairy by Arceus Dragon by blowing it up with Primal Groudon, but ultimately Utility Swords Dance is just a better set on average and into the things I'm worrying about with this team, and it scares Zygarde well enough to work. Yveltal is generally useful speed control, although it is primarily here to deal with Zacian. This lets the Groudon be more specially defensive. The specific EV spread makes Timid Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre unable to kill it in any less than four turns from full health. I had 12 EVs left which I dumped into speed, letting it outspeed 8 Speed Ho-Oh, Paralyzed Zacian Crowned, and -1 max speed Yveltal, as well as the base 90 speed club uninvested, of course.
From here, I had a choice to make. Zygarde and Ho-Oh, or Alomomola and Giratina-Origin. I was very tempted by the idea of Alomomola alongside Lunala or Dusk Mane Necrozma, both of which I was considering as my Eternatus check, but I felt that both of them would make the team less consistent and defensively sound than if I were to just add on Primal Kyogre, which doesn't really have much synergy with Alomomola. Thus, the remaining three Pokemon are far less interesting. Offensive Ho-Oh, Coil Zygarde, and Defensive Primal Kygore. As I am typing this, Zacian Crowned has come to mind as an Eternatus check that would be less reliable but would also add additional offensive potency to this as well as more speed control and a better matchup against the mildly annoying Calm Mind Arceus Dark. It is tempting, but I think Kyogre makes slightly more sense here. I do think it being a more reliable answer to Eternatus is vital, and a more consistent Ho-Oh matchup is also greatly appreciated. I think this team does have enough to handle Arceus Dark between this team's strong specially defensive profile, Toxic on Choice Scarf Yveltal, Tera Fairy Zygarde to handle Tera Poison, and the overall offensive pressure that might not be outstanding but is fairly consistent combined with solid pressure on hazard removal. Finally, I added Tera Dark on Ho-Oh a few seconds at the time of writing this as extra insurance against Ultra Necrozma that Arceus Dark would otherwise comfortably check with a bit of extra utility such as resisting Arceus Dark's Judgement. This isn't too much of a cost as Ho-Oh doesn't have much reason to Terastalize in the first place outside of for mind games against Zacian which Tera Dark usually doesn't hamper if they don't know I have it, though I am very slightly concerned about the Dragon Dance Arceus Ground matchup now.
If you're new here, Arceus Dragon can do most of the things Arceus Dark can do while also having a probably better offensive typing that threatens a large variety of common Pokemon, hitting all of GHAZ and Yveltal for at least neutral and making it terrifying for Eternatus after Terastalizing. I usually pair it with Ting-Lu to have about as strong of an Eternatus answer as you can reasonably get before I get the chance to Terastalize Arceus Dragon, but Defensive Kyogre can also take its fair share of hits from Eternatus which allowed me to make a team that doesn't look like I'm overcompensating to use this Pokemon. Arceus Dragon can really be quite scary and can make for a potent endgame sweeper, and while at a glance it might not seem like this team has too much synergy with it, I do think it works well here. This team has a strong balance between consistent offensive pressure and a strong defensive profile that makes it very good at managing its resources better than the opponent, setting up for an endgame stacked in its favor. Once the right holes are poked the team can clean house with Arceus Dragon, Choice Scarf Yveltal, and/or Coil Zygarde, and this team is solid enough that it can pretty handily get to the end game with two or three of these alongside other teammates, with Ho-Oh and Kyogre being quite capable of just brute forcing things to thin the herd. And Swords Dance Groudon is of course a very scary Pokemon that can easily just take out things when given the chance to set up via the switches it often encourages against Kyogre, Zacian, and Ho-Oh. That extra speed makes a world of difference against Ho-Oh, which also makes it pretty good at keeping up Stealth Rock. Overall I think this team is more than solid, and I'm proud to submit it here.
Check it out, I made an Arceus Dragon team that doesn't need a second shitmon.
I'm usually not a fan of offensive Primal Groudon, but this round gave me the chance to fulfill a concept I've had for a bit. This team was built around offensive Primal Groudon, Choice Scarf Yveltal, and Arceus Dragon. I was originally planning on using Offensive Support Primal Groudon because the original idea was to take advantage of Zygarde being encouraged to Tera Fairy by Arceus Dragon by blowing it up with Primal Groudon, but ultimately Utility Swords Dance is just a better set on average and into the things I'm worrying about with this team, and it scares Zygarde well enough to work. Yveltal is generally useful speed control, although it is primarily here to deal with Zacian. This lets the Groudon be more specially defensive. The specific EV spread makes Timid Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre unable to kill it in any less than four turns from full health. I had 12 EVs left which I dumped into speed, letting it outspeed 8 Speed Ho-Oh, Paralyzed Zacian Crowned, and -1 max speed Yveltal, as well as the base 90 speed club uninvested, of course.
From here, I had a choice to make. Zygarde and Ho-Oh, or Alomomola and Giratina-Origin. I was very tempted by the idea of Alomomola alongside Lunala or Dusk Mane Necrozma, both of which I was considering as my Eternatus check, but I felt that both of them would make the team less consistent and defensively sound than if I were to just add on Primal Kyogre, which doesn't really have much synergy with Alomomola. Thus, the remaining three Pokemon are far less interesting. Offensive Ho-Oh, Coil Zygarde, and Defensive Primal Kygore. As I am typing this, Zacian Crowned has come to mind as an Eternatus check that would be less reliable but would also add additional offensive potency to this as well as more speed control and a better matchup against the mildly annoying Calm Mind Arceus Dark. It is tempting, but I think Kyogre makes slightly more sense here. I do think it being a more reliable answer to Eternatus is vital, and a more consistent Ho-Oh matchup is also greatly appreciated. I think this team does have enough to handle Arceus Dark between this team's strong specially defensive profile, Toxic on Choice Scarf Yveltal, Tera Fairy Zygarde to handle Tera Poison, and the overall offensive pressure that might not be outstanding but is fairly consistent combined with solid pressure on hazard removal. Finally, I added Tera Dark on Ho-Oh a few seconds at the time of writing this as extra insurance against Ultra Necrozma that Arceus Dark would otherwise comfortably check with a bit of extra utility such as resisting Arceus Dark's Judgement. This isn't too much of a cost as Ho-Oh doesn't have much reason to Terastalize in the first place outside of for mind games against Zacian which Tera Dark usually doesn't hamper if they don't know I have it, though I am very slightly concerned about the Dragon Dance Arceus Ground matchup now.
If you're new here, Arceus Dragon can do most of the things Arceus Dark can do while also having a probably better offensive typing that threatens a large variety of common Pokemon, hitting all of GHAZ and Yveltal for at least neutral and making it terrifying for Eternatus after Terastalizing. I usually pair it with Ting-Lu to have about as strong of an Eternatus answer as you can reasonably get before I get the chance to Terastalize Arceus Dragon, but Defensive Kyogre can also take its fair share of hits from Eternatus which allowed me to make a team that doesn't look like I'm overcompensating to use this Pokemon. Arceus Dragon can really be quite scary and can make for a potent endgame sweeper, and while at a glance it might not seem like this team has too much synergy with it, I do think it works well here. This team has a strong balance between consistent offensive pressure and a strong defensive profile that makes it very good at managing its resources better than the opponent, setting up for an endgame stacked in its favor. Once the right holes are poked the team can clean house with Arceus Dragon, Choice Scarf Yveltal, and/or Coil Zygarde, and this team is solid enough that it can pretty handily get to the end game with two or three of these alongside other teammates, with Ho-Oh and Kyogre being quite capable of just brute forcing things to thin the herd. And Swords Dance Groudon is of course a very scary Pokemon that can easily just take out things when given the chance to set up via the switches it often encourages against Kyogre, Zacian, and Ho-Oh. That extra speed makes a world of difference against Ho-Oh, which also makes it pretty good at keeping up Stealth Rock. Overall I think this team is more than solid, and I'm proud to submit it here.
Overheat SD Primal Groudon Offense :groudon-primal: :landorus-therian: :zacian-crowned: :eternatus: :arceus: :yveltal:
Surprised nobody has brought up offensive Overheat let alone Overheat + Swords Dance. Attack EVs for Primal Groudon OHKO Ho-Oh with unboosted Stone Edge while outspeeding Adamant Necrozma-DM. Landorus-T helps us against opposing Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, Necrozma-DM, and Zacian-C while providing Stealth Rock + Taunt utility. Zacian-C is needed for CM Arceus formes, Eternatus, and Chien Pao. Life Orb Eternatus is the secondary special attacker which notably encourages Tera Fairy Zygarde to be activated, while also helping against Primal Kyogre and Alomomola. Finally, Arceus and Choice Scarf Yveltal are two nice anti-offense options against Lunala, Marshadow, and Ultra Necrozma. Arceus has additional Taunt utility and synergises well with Zacian-C, while Yveltal gives us Defog and a secondary pivot.
Surprised nobody has brought up offensive Overheat let alone Overheat + Swords Dance. Attack EVs for Primal Groudon OHKO Ho-Oh with unboosted Stone Edge while outspeeding Adamant Necrozma-DM. Landorus-T helps us against opposing Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, Necrozma-DM, and Zacian-C while providing Stealth Rock + Taunt utility. Zacian-C is needed for CM Arceus formes, Eternatus, and Chien Pao. Life Orb Eternatus is the secondary special attacker which notably encourages Tera Fairy Zygarde to be activated, while also helping against Primal Kyogre and Alomomola. Finally, Arceus and Choice Scarf Yveltal are two nice anti-offense options against Lunala, Marshadow, and Ultra Necrozma. Arceus has additional Taunt utility and synergises well with Zacian-C, while Yveltal gives us Defog and a secondary pivot.
voting:
1) SD Rocks PDon + Fez BO :groudon-primal: :deoxys-attack: :fezandipiti: :marshadow: :yveltal: :ho-oh: by TheShowdownHero
2) Eruptdon :groudon-primal: :calyrex-ice: :walking-wake: :flutter-mane: :charizard-mega-y: :zygarde: by Yesman
3) 3A RP PDon Offense :groudon-primal: :ho-oh: :zygarde: :arceus-fairy: :marshadow: :necrozma-ultra: by Jumpheart
4) Melmetal TR :groudon-primal: :hatterene: :melmetal: :cresselia: :kyogre-primal: :arceus: by EbonyGod
5) Hone Claws PDon BO :groudon-primal: :alomomola: :zygarde: :ho-oh: :arceus-fairy: :marshadow: by Planet
6) Ditto SD Spikes PDon Offense :groudon-primal: :ditto: :giratina-origin: :zacian-crowned: :necrozma-ultra: :eternatus: by Player350
7) ARCEUS-DRAGON AGAIN :groudon-primal: :arceus-dragon: :kyogre-primal: :zygarde: :yveltal: :ho-oh: by Cancel Cult
8) Overheat SD Primal Groudon Offense :groudon-primal: :landorus-therian: :zacian-crowned: :eternatus: :arceus: :yveltal: by Sami
voting ends friday 11th of september
1) SD Rocks PDon + Fez BO :groudon-primal: :deoxys-attack: :fezandipiti: :marshadow: :yveltal: :ho-oh: by TheShowdownHero
2) Eruptdon :groudon-primal: :calyrex-ice: :walking-wake: :flutter-mane: :charizard-mega-y: :zygarde: by Yesman
3) 3A RP PDon Offense :groudon-primal: :ho-oh: :zygarde: :arceus-fairy: :marshadow: :necrozma-ultra: by Jumpheart
4) Melmetal TR :groudon-primal: :hatterene: :melmetal: :cresselia: :kyogre-primal: :arceus: by EbonyGod
5) Hone Claws PDon BO :groudon-primal: :alomomola: :zygarde: :ho-oh: :arceus-fairy: :marshadow: by Planet
6) Ditto SD Spikes PDon Offense :groudon-primal: :ditto: :giratina-origin: :zacian-crowned: :necrozma-ultra: :eternatus: by Player350
7) ARCEUS-DRAGON AGAIN :groudon-primal: :arceus-dragon: :kyogre-primal: :zygarde: :yveltal: :ho-oh: by Cancel Cult
8) Overheat SD Primal Groudon Offense :groudon-primal: :landorus-therian: :zacian-crowned: :eternatus: :arceus: :yveltal: by Sami
voting ends friday 11th of september
7>8>6>2>5>3>4
If you saw me accidentally post this before I was done, no you didn't and also since when can you just post by hitting a button on your keyboard???
1>6>8>3>4>5>2
Now to give my thoughts on the teams:
2) Eruptdon :groudon-primal: :calyrex-ice: :walking-wake: :flutter-mane: :charizard-mega-y: :zygarde: by Yesman
I'm afraid weather teams don't really work in a tier where a Pokemon that resets the weather is on basically every team.
5) Hone Claws PDon BO :groudon-primal: :alomomola: :zygarde: :ho-oh: :arceus-fairy: :marshadow: by Planet
I went back and forth on this team a lot. Originally, I liked it a lot. Alomomola and Zygarde is quite unusual, but lots of longevity combined with a pivot-supported Marshadow sounds like a recipe for success. And then, I realized something. Stealth Rock is not on Primal Groudon, but rather on an Arceus Fairy without Taunt. This lets Ho-Oh remove hazards for absolutely free. And as a team focused on longevity, you really want hazard chip to wear down the opponent. And then I realized something else. While yes, a lacking hazard game is unfortunate, you know what also does a great job of wearing down the opponent? Marshadow. Ho-Oh may still be annoying, but you can abuse it to let in Marshadow, either by reading the switch, reading the Defog, or just playing it safe with an Alomomola pivot. This is a powerful thing to have, and the threat of it alone could discourage Ho-Oh coming in or clearing hazards. This was enough to have me deliberate on its placement for a while. But then, some realizations hit. Even aside from how these openings to send in Marshadow aren't completely reliable or safe, there are also some other big flaws this team has. Eternatus is a bit scary, but the big one is Zacian. Having such a frail Primal Groudon and Marshadow as your best speed control on a team with Alomomola makes Zacian a very big problem, and the second I realized this I unfortunately could not put it any higher.
4) Melmetal TR :groudon-primal: :hatterene: :melmetal: :cresselia: :kyogre-primal: :arceus: by EbonyGod
Ew, Trick Room. That's it, that's my entire reasoning. I think Trick Room is too matchup fishy to be that good, and also I don't know enough about Trick Room teams to gauge how good of a Trick Room teams this is unfortunately.
3) 3A RP PDon Offense :groudon-primal: :ho-oh: :zygarde: :arceus-fairy: :marshadow: :necrozma-ultra: by Jumpheart
At first I was moving this between top 2 and 3, even considering putting it at first. And then Iread Jumpheart's comments about the team realized that this team struggles fairly hard into Ho-Oh. That, and a scary matchup against Dragon Dance Arceus Ground, and what I am just now realizing looks like a pretty poor webs matchup, is what has this team this low.
8) Overheat SD Primal Groudon Offense :groudon-primal: :landorus-therian: :zacian-crowned: :eternatus: :arceus: :yveltal: by Sami
This was originally way lower, but I eventually began to realize I was looking at this team all wrong. The problem I originally had was that this team needed Landorus Therian to somehow check Zacian and set Stealth Rock at the same time. I've come to realize that this isn't the case at all. This team is generally offensively threatening enough that Zacian has a tough time setting up, and that combined with Scarf Yveltal provides a good enough matchup against the dog even without Landorus. I still think this team is a bit awkward; Landorus doesn't really seem to consistently provide a lot to this team other than set rocks and die, and the pressure against hazard removal seems a bit shoddy, but it works well enough I think.
6) Ditto SD Spikes PDon Offense :groudon-primal: :ditto: :giratina-origin: :zacian-crowned: :necrozma-ultra: :eternatus: by Player350
The webs matchup seems not great, and some stuff like Ultra Necrozma, Marshadow, and maybe even Tera Fairy Zygarde seem scary, but overall there doesn't seem to be a huge flaw that holds it back. I don't think there's a ton to say about this team.
1) SD Rocks PDon + Fez BO :groudon-primal: :deoxys-attack: :fezandipiti: :marshadow: :yveltal: :ho-oh: by TheShowdownHero
I have a few notes. The Primal Kyogre matchup seems scary, but not terrible considering that you exert a lot of offensive pressure and your Primal Groudon is the more specially defensive spread and also packs Swords Dance to meaningfully punish it. Marshadow is also something to consider but not something that farms your team. The big thing is that I'm not a fan of this Yveltal moveset. It seems to be trying to be an end game cleaner here, but I think it would be more effective at that with Foul Play over Oblivion Wing. Most people would probably also tell you to go Knock Off over Dark Pulse, but I actually think Dark Pulse might be the better option here, as you don't really seem to struggle with the stuff you usually want Knock Off for. But even with all the stuff you have for Zacian, I definitely still think that since you're running 68+ defense or higher on Primal Groudon that, while you can function without it, you'd still want Foul Play on Scarf Yveltal. That being said, I think that since this team doesn't have any huge weaknesses that, while it is close, this team deserves to be at the top here just due to the sheer strength of what you're working with. Deoxys Attack and Choice Band Marshadow, both supported by a pivot, with rocks being set by Utility Swords Dance Primal Groudon all makes for a very scary team to go up against, and even if no Foul Play makes it significantly worse at this, Tera Dark Scarf Yveltal can still put in serious work as an end game cleaner.
1>6>8>3>4>5>2
Now to give my thoughts on the teams:
2) Eruptdon :groudon-primal: :calyrex-ice: :walking-wake: :flutter-mane: :charizard-mega-y: :zygarde: by Yesman
I'm afraid weather teams don't really work in a tier where a Pokemon that resets the weather is on basically every team.
5) Hone Claws PDon BO :groudon-primal: :alomomola: :zygarde: :ho-oh: :arceus-fairy: :marshadow: by Planet
I went back and forth on this team a lot. Originally, I liked it a lot. Alomomola and Zygarde is quite unusual, but lots of longevity combined with a pivot-supported Marshadow sounds like a recipe for success. And then, I realized something. Stealth Rock is not on Primal Groudon, but rather on an Arceus Fairy without Taunt. This lets Ho-Oh remove hazards for absolutely free. And as a team focused on longevity, you really want hazard chip to wear down the opponent. And then I realized something else. While yes, a lacking hazard game is unfortunate, you know what also does a great job of wearing down the opponent? Marshadow. Ho-Oh may still be annoying, but you can abuse it to let in Marshadow, either by reading the switch, reading the Defog, or just playing it safe with an Alomomola pivot. This is a powerful thing to have, and the threat of it alone could discourage Ho-Oh coming in or clearing hazards. This was enough to have me deliberate on its placement for a while. But then, some realizations hit. Even aside from how these openings to send in Marshadow aren't completely reliable or safe, there are also some other big flaws this team has. Eternatus is a bit scary, but the big one is Zacian. Having such a frail Primal Groudon and Marshadow as your best speed control on a team with Alomomola makes Zacian a very big problem, and the second I realized this I unfortunately could not put it any higher.
4) Melmetal TR :groudon-primal: :hatterene: :melmetal: :cresselia: :kyogre-primal: :arceus: by EbonyGod
Ew, Trick Room. That's it, that's my entire reasoning. I think Trick Room is too matchup fishy to be that good, and also I don't know enough about Trick Room teams to gauge how good of a Trick Room teams this is unfortunately.
3) 3A RP PDon Offense :groudon-primal: :ho-oh: :zygarde: :arceus-fairy: :marshadow: :necrozma-ultra: by Jumpheart
At first I was moving this between top 2 and 3, even considering putting it at first. And then I
8) Overheat SD Primal Groudon Offense :groudon-primal: :landorus-therian: :zacian-crowned: :eternatus: :arceus: :yveltal: by Sami
This was originally way lower, but I eventually began to realize I was looking at this team all wrong. The problem I originally had was that this team needed Landorus Therian to somehow check Zacian and set Stealth Rock at the same time. I've come to realize that this isn't the case at all. This team is generally offensively threatening enough that Zacian has a tough time setting up, and that combined with Scarf Yveltal provides a good enough matchup against the dog even without Landorus. I still think this team is a bit awkward; Landorus doesn't really seem to consistently provide a lot to this team other than set rocks and die, and the pressure against hazard removal seems a bit shoddy, but it works well enough I think.
6) Ditto SD Spikes PDon Offense :groudon-primal: :ditto: :giratina-origin: :zacian-crowned: :necrozma-ultra: :eternatus: by Player350
The webs matchup seems not great, and some stuff like Ultra Necrozma, Marshadow, and maybe even Tera Fairy Zygarde seem scary, but overall there doesn't seem to be a huge flaw that holds it back. I don't think there's a ton to say about this team.
1) SD Rocks PDon + Fez BO :groudon-primal: :deoxys-attack: :fezandipiti: :marshadow: :yveltal: :ho-oh: by TheShowdownHero
I have a few notes. The Primal Kyogre matchup seems scary, but not terrible considering that you exert a lot of offensive pressure and your Primal Groudon is the more specially defensive spread and also packs Swords Dance to meaningfully punish it. Marshadow is also something to consider but not something that farms your team. The big thing is that I'm not a fan of this Yveltal moveset. It seems to be trying to be an end game cleaner here, but I think it would be more effective at that with Foul Play over Oblivion Wing. Most people would probably also tell you to go Knock Off over Dark Pulse, but I actually think Dark Pulse might be the better option here, as you don't really seem to struggle with the stuff you usually want Knock Off for. But even with all the stuff you have for Zacian, I definitely still think that since you're running 68+ defense or higher on Primal Groudon that, while you can function without it, you'd still want Foul Play on Scarf Yveltal. That being said, I think that since this team doesn't have any huge weaknesses that, while it is close, this team deserves to be at the top here just due to the sheer strength of what you're working with. Deoxys Attack and Choice Band Marshadow, both supported by a pivot, with rocks being set by Utility Swords Dance Primal Groudon all makes for a very scary team to go up against, and even if no Foul Play makes it significantly worse at this, Tera Dark Scarf Yveltal can still put in serious work as an end game cleaner.
Next Pokemon is...
:sv/lunala:
Lunala @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Ghost / Fairy
Timid Nature
- Moongeist Beam
- Moonblast
- Psyshock / Focus Blast
- Trick
Lunala @ Power Herb
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Ghost / Fairy
Modest or Timid Nature
- Meteor Beam
- Moongeist Beam
- Moonblast
- Agility / Psyshock
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Ghost / Fairy
Timid Nature
- Moongeist Beam
- Moonblast
- Psyshock / Focus Blast
- Trick
Lunala @ Power Herb
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Ghost / Fairy
Modest or Timid Nature
- Meteor Beam
- Moongeist Beam
- Moonblast
- Agility / Psyshock
https://pokepast.es/a9dc22654ad30721
:lunala: :zygarde-complete: :Zacian-crowned: :groudon-primal: :ho-oh: :arceus-fairy:
:lunala: :zygarde-complete: :Zacian-crowned: :groudon-primal: :ho-oh: :arceus-fairy:
:groudon-primal::ting-lu::ho-oh::arceus-dragon::alomomola::lunala:
I actually wanted to have this be something different than the same 5 Pokemon I've been submitting for the last few cycles with a different sixth Pokemon. I was thinking something like, :groudon-primal::arceus-dragon::lunala::alomomola::giratina-origin::yveltal:, but it just didn't come together right, and Lunala with the hazard support of Ting-Lu sounded strong so I decided fuck it, we're doing the cancel special again. If you need a refresher on Arceus Dragon, I've already written about it like 5 times here so just like, scroll up and you'll find a post of mine explaining it. I was thinking I could afford a more physically defensive Ting-Lu here to offer a bit more insurance against scary physical sweepers, but because there's not a single god damn answer to Eternatus in this tier Lunala can't actually reliably live a +1 Tera Dragon Dynamax Cannon after rocks and I didn't want to give up Tera Ghost so what can you do. On the plus side though it's still great against it so we can afford to drop Earthquake for Ruination and actually threaten things. There was a green goblin mask telling me to put Tailwind on Ho-Oh to assist Lunala and to be honest it might be situationally powerful but giving up the permanence of Thunder Wave for the mere possibility of speed on a chipped Lunala for a few turns is not something I'm willing to do without testing and I really don't feel like playing dozens of games until I get to run into one competent opponent to properly test it out when I'm already confident this team works well enough as is.
Alright so like, how does this team actually function? Well, against hyper offense its probably fine enough, this structure usually is, but against a balance team I think this team shines quite well. I think that Lunala really appreciates every member on this team. Primal Groudon and Ting Lu provide hazard support to make its already stupid moves (seriously there's like genuinely no fucking answers to Lunala it 2HKO's everything) even stupider and wears down the Arceus Dark and Yveltal that would hope to take its Moongeist Beams, allowing it to kinda just press the funny button with no consequence or concern for what the switch in is actually gonna be. Obviously Ho-Oh clearing hazards to preserve Shadow Shield is great, as is both it and Ting-Lu lowering the opponents speed to let Lunala do the thing. Truthfully, Arceus Dragon doesn't do a ton outside of generally wearing down the opponents team, but encouraging the opponent to Tera Fairy on things Lunala and this team in general match up well against such as Zygarde and Eternatus is useful. And then you have Alomomola. Pivot support alone is incredible, allowing Lunala to come in many times and click its stupid buttons, but Wish support is also incredible to have, patching up Lunala's lacking longevity and potentially restoring Shadow Shield. I think by now how this team works should seem quite clear. Do the standard thing for this team structure of wearing down the opponent and spam the button that kills things until you win. I was hoping I could bring something more unique here, but at the same time I think this team really does play to this Pokemon's strengths and is a great example of how to make this Pokemon powerful.
I actually wanted to have this be something different than the same 5 Pokemon I've been submitting for the last few cycles with a different sixth Pokemon. I was thinking something like, :groudon-primal::arceus-dragon::lunala::alomomola::giratina-origin::yveltal:, but it just didn't come together right, and Lunala with the hazard support of Ting-Lu sounded strong so I decided fuck it, we're doing the cancel special again. If you need a refresher on Arceus Dragon, I've already written about it like 5 times here so just like, scroll up and you'll find a post of mine explaining it. I was thinking I could afford a more physically defensive Ting-Lu here to offer a bit more insurance against scary physical sweepers, but because there's not a single god damn answer to Eternatus in this tier Lunala can't actually reliably live a +1 Tera Dragon Dynamax Cannon after rocks and I didn't want to give up Tera Ghost so what can you do. On the plus side though it's still great against it so we can afford to drop Earthquake for Ruination and actually threaten things. There was a green goblin mask telling me to put Tailwind on Ho-Oh to assist Lunala and to be honest it might be situationally powerful but giving up the permanence of Thunder Wave for the mere possibility of speed on a chipped Lunala for a few turns is not something I'm willing to do without testing and I really don't feel like playing dozens of games until I get to run into one competent opponent to properly test it out when I'm already confident this team works well enough as is.
Alright so like, how does this team actually function? Well, against hyper offense its probably fine enough, this structure usually is, but against a balance team I think this team shines quite well. I think that Lunala really appreciates every member on this team. Primal Groudon and Ting Lu provide hazard support to make its already stupid moves (seriously there's like genuinely no fucking answers to Lunala it 2HKO's everything) even stupider and wears down the Arceus Dark and Yveltal that would hope to take its Moongeist Beams, allowing it to kinda just press the funny button with no consequence or concern for what the switch in is actually gonna be. Obviously Ho-Oh clearing hazards to preserve Shadow Shield is great, as is both it and Ting-Lu lowering the opponents speed to let Lunala do the thing. Truthfully, Arceus Dragon doesn't do a ton outside of generally wearing down the opponents team, but encouraging the opponent to Tera Fairy on things Lunala and this team in general match up well against such as Zygarde and Eternatus is useful. And then you have Alomomola. Pivot support alone is incredible, allowing Lunala to come in many times and click its stupid buttons, but Wish support is also incredible to have, patching up Lunala's lacking longevity and potentially restoring Shadow Shield. I think by now how this team works should seem quite clear. Do the standard thing for this team structure of wearing down the opponent and spam the button that kills things until you win. I was hoping I could bring something more unique here, but at the same time I think this team really does play to this Pokemon's strengths and is a great example of how to make this Pokemon powerful.
:pmd/lunala: :pmd/arceus: :pmd/groudon-primal: :pmd/yveltal: :pmd/kyogre-primal: :pmd/zacian-crowned:
fuck you, hypnosis lunala
fuck you, hypnosis lunala
:Grimmsnarl: :Terapagos-Terastal: :Groudon-Primal: :Salamence-Mega: :Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: :Lunala:
Yeah so this team wasn't even made for Lunala I kinda just threw it on cause I needed another special attacker and Z Lunala looked cool. My reasoning for having Z over power herb is cause I didn’t want to even think about using tera on something else but Terapagos, and CM with Z is a super nuke on something. I also just liked the idea of having two mons with better multiscale on a screens team making set up mons easier to deal with when needed. As for everything else I have a standard Grimmsnarl set that can 1v1 Arc-dark which can be problem for some of the team. A double dance Groudon with heat crash over stone edge cause I don't want Giratina-O to wall all three of Groudon, Salamence, and Dusk Mane with tera steel. Next I have a standard DD mega Salamence with frustration over double edge cause whats the point in setting up behind screens just to kill/weaken yourself with recoil chip. You could also put roost over facade if you want more longevity, but facade has been more useful for setting up on things that only have toxic to deal with you. Now we have Dusk Mane/Ultra Necrozma who behind screens basically doesn't die cause prism armor is broken, and when your done setting up you can ultra burst and go for game. At this point you probably now see that the team has dual Z users, but since you can Z with Lunala and still ultra burst it doesn't affect the team how you think it would. However if you want to use Light That Burns The Sky you can't use Z on Lunala and vice versa. Finally we have the mon that team was built around being Terapagos. The whole goal was to make it so that Terapagos could easily set up and try to sweep since after it uses tera it now has 160 hp with 110 in both defenses making it super hard to kill when screens are up. Power gem is literally only for Ho-Oh so that you can kill it at +1 after tera while having tera starstorm for everything else. Its also boots with spin so that I don't have to always taunt their lead with Grimmsnarl.
Yeah so this team wasn't even made for Lunala I kinda just threw it on cause I needed another special attacker and Z Lunala looked cool. My reasoning for having Z over power herb is cause I didn’t want to even think about using tera on something else but Terapagos, and CM with Z is a super nuke on something. I also just liked the idea of having two mons with better multiscale on a screens team making set up mons easier to deal with when needed. As for everything else I have a standard Grimmsnarl set that can 1v1 Arc-dark which can be problem for some of the team. A double dance Groudon with heat crash over stone edge cause I don't want Giratina-O to wall all three of Groudon, Salamence, and Dusk Mane with tera steel. Next I have a standard DD mega Salamence with frustration over double edge cause whats the point in setting up behind screens just to kill/weaken yourself with recoil chip. You could also put roost over facade if you want more longevity, but facade has been more useful for setting up on things that only have toxic to deal with you. Now we have Dusk Mane/Ultra Necrozma who behind screens basically doesn't die cause prism armor is broken, and when your done setting up you can ultra burst and go for game. At this point you probably now see that the team has dual Z users, but since you can Z with Lunala and still ultra burst it doesn't affect the team how you think it would. However if you want to use Light That Burns The Sky you can't use Z on Lunala and vice versa. Finally we have the mon that team was built around being Terapagos. The whole goal was to make it so that Terapagos could easily set up and try to sweep since after it uses tera it now has 160 hp with 110 in both defenses making it super hard to kill when screens are up. Power gem is literally only for Ho-Oh so that you can kill it at +1 after tera while having tera starstorm for everything else. Its also boots with spin so that I don't have to always taunt their lead with Grimmsnarl.
i didnt forget!
voting time:
1) Standard GHAZ :lunala: :groudon-primal: :ho-oh: :zygarde: :arceus-fairy: :zacian-crowned: by TheShowdownHero
2) molalu balance :lunala: :ting-lu: :arceus-dragon: :alomomola: :groudon-primal: :ho-oh: by cancel cult
3) Hypnosis Lunala Offense :lunala: :groudon-primal: :kyogre-primal: :arceus: :zacian-crowned: :yveltal: by Jumpheart
4) Screens Pagos HO :lunala: :grimmsnarl: :terapagos-terastal: :groudon-primal: :necrozma-ultra: :salamence-mega: by EbonyGod
voting ends 29th september
voting time:
1) Standard GHAZ :lunala: :groudon-primal: :ho-oh: :zygarde: :arceus-fairy: :zacian-crowned: by TheShowdownHero
2) molalu balance :lunala: :ting-lu: :arceus-dragon: :alomomola: :groudon-primal: :ho-oh: by cancel cult
3) Hypnosis Lunala Offense :lunala: :groudon-primal: :kyogre-primal: :arceus: :zacian-crowned: :yveltal: by Jumpheart
4) Screens Pagos HO :lunala: :grimmsnarl: :terapagos-terastal: :groudon-primal: :necrozma-ultra: :salamence-mega: by EbonyGod
voting ends 29th september
4>3>1
4>3>2
1>4>2>3
1>4>3>2
And the winner is... Standard GHAZ :lunala: :groudon-primal: :ho-oh: :zygarde: :arceus-fairy: :zacian-crowned: by TheShowdownHero!
Next Pokemon is...
:sv/necrozma-ultra:
Ultra Necrozma, despite it's poor splashability outside of HO, is still a highly respected threat in the tier, due to its superb power and speed in conjunction with its unique setup opportunities with Necrozma-DM. Dragon Dance variants can work on almost any forme of HO, while support Stealth Rock variants make for interesting offense and BO builds. The niche Swords Dance variant can also work with Sticky Web support. How will you build around the light eater? Building ends Friday 9th October.
Next Pokemon is...
:sv/necrozma-ultra:
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 40 HP / 248 Atk / 80 Def / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Earthquake
- Outrage / Stone Edge / Sunsteel Strike
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 16 HP / 24 Def / 244 SpA / 224 Spe
IVs: 4 Atk
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Photon Geyser
- Earth Power
- Stone Edge
Necrozma-Ultra @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 40 HP / 248 Atk / 80 Def / 140 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Outrage / Sunsteel Strike / X-Scissor
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 40 HP / 248 Atk / 80 Def / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Earthquake
- Outrage / Stone Edge / Sunsteel Strike
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 16 HP / 24 Def / 244 SpA / 224 Spe
IVs: 4 Atk
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Photon Geyser
- Earth Power
- Stone Edge
Necrozma-Ultra @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 40 HP / 248 Atk / 80 Def / 140 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Outrage / Sunsteel Strike / X-Scissor
Last edited:
https://pokepast.es/8fc54f3cedf3eb23
:kyurem-black: :necrozma-ultra: :Smeargle: :Arceus-ground: :Yveltal: :eternatus:
:kyurem-black: :necrozma-ultra: :Smeargle: :Arceus-ground: :Yveltal: :eternatus:
Last edited:
:necrozma-ultra::groudon-primal::ho-oh::arceus-dark::zygarde::marshadow:
The people have spoken, and they're tired of Ting-Lu and Arceus Dragon. I wanted to do something unique this cycle, and at first glance you might not think there's much you can do with Ultra Necrozma. But actually, there might be a lot more than you think. It has an amazing movepool and functionally a free Tera that changes it from one great defensive type to another on top of a great speed tier. I decided that defensive Ultra Necrozma was worth a shot.
So, what does it do? Well, obviously it's supposed to set rocks, and it avoids a 2HKO from the best Defogger in the tier while scaring it greatly with Rock Tomb. Worth noting that not having a -Atk nature gives Rock Tomb a 25% chance to OHKO your standard Offensive Ho-Oh, but I chose to exchange with not outright threatening an OHKO on it for being able to live a +1 Fire Blast from Eternatus after rocks as NDM. The rest of the team does a good enough job of chipping down Ho-Oh to comfortably get it in range I feel. So you might ask, what does this have over Primal Groudon? Well, a few things. Stacking hazard setters is nice, but it also has access to reliable recovery in Morning Sun, which also lets it do well against Primal Groudon despite having a 25% chance to be 2HKO'd by defensive's Precipice Blades thanks to the healing being boosted in the sun. Having a Light That Burns the Sky in your pocket is also really nice, threatening an OHKO on the more physically defensive Pirmal Groudon set after Stealth Rock as well as having a small chance to OHKO Coil Zygarde even without rocks.
The ability to swap between Dusk Mane and Ultra makes it a flexible Pokemon that can adapt to the foe's team which lets it usually get value. It can of course also use this to throw off Pokemon such as Zacian and Eternatus which it already checks fairly well in its base form. It might not seem like Ultra Necrozma would be able to use its reliable recovery very often given it's relative frailty for the tier, but the opponent has to respect the nuke you have which can very well scare out Pokemon to allow it to heal. Because half the moveset is comprised of Status moves it unfortunately can't be quite as threatening as I'd like once the light burns the sky, but Rock Tomb is a great utility move that weakens Pokemon that are otherwise not threatened by it such as Arceus Dark by letting its teammates take advantage of its lowered speed. Admittedly it would be nice to have it be able to do more to Zacian than lower its speed, but forcing it out is still sufficient if this team can stop it from getting momentum again, which I definitely believe it can.
This team's goal is to set a bunch of hazards and wear down the opponent with consistent damage before cleaning an end game with Marshadow, Arceus Dark, and/or Zygarde. Light That Burns the Sky is great at making progress and can blow a hole through the foe's team, and the threat of that forces the opponent to reposition and have their checks to it such as Arceus Dark and Yveltal take hazard chip and also perhaps get their speed lowered, which makes it easier for teammates to beat them or wear them down and can force them out to take more hazard chip. Toxic on Primal Groudon also adds invaluable chip that will wear down Pokemon in addition to everything else the team is doing. This is also a move that will very likely put Ho-Oh into range to be OHKO'd by Rock Tomb. This team has the bulk to do this a fair few times, and taking stray hits from Judgement, Thousand Arrows, Photon Geyser, and Brave Bird adds up a lot. All this is before accounting for the Marshadow in the back which absolutely loves every form of chip damage this team is constantly inflicting onto the opponent previously mentioned. I do think defensive Ultra Necrozma is a useful addition to this team that its teammates play off of well.
The people have spoken, and they're tired of Ting-Lu and Arceus Dragon. I wanted to do something unique this cycle, and at first glance you might not think there's much you can do with Ultra Necrozma. But actually, there might be a lot more than you think. It has an amazing movepool and functionally a free Tera that changes it from one great defensive type to another on top of a great speed tier. I decided that defensive Ultra Necrozma was worth a shot.
So, what does it do? Well, obviously it's supposed to set rocks, and it avoids a 2HKO from the best Defogger in the tier while scaring it greatly with Rock Tomb. Worth noting that not having a -Atk nature gives Rock Tomb a 25% chance to OHKO your standard Offensive Ho-Oh, but I chose to exchange with not outright threatening an OHKO on it for being able to live a +1 Fire Blast from Eternatus after rocks as NDM. The rest of the team does a good enough job of chipping down Ho-Oh to comfortably get it in range I feel. So you might ask, what does this have over Primal Groudon? Well, a few things. Stacking hazard setters is nice, but it also has access to reliable recovery in Morning Sun, which also lets it do well against Primal Groudon despite having a 25% chance to be 2HKO'd by defensive's Precipice Blades thanks to the healing being boosted in the sun. Having a Light That Burns the Sky in your pocket is also really nice, threatening an OHKO on the more physically defensive Pirmal Groudon set after Stealth Rock as well as having a small chance to OHKO Coil Zygarde even without rocks.
The ability to swap between Dusk Mane and Ultra makes it a flexible Pokemon that can adapt to the foe's team which lets it usually get value. It can of course also use this to throw off Pokemon such as Zacian and Eternatus which it already checks fairly well in its base form. It might not seem like Ultra Necrozma would be able to use its reliable recovery very often given it's relative frailty for the tier, but the opponent has to respect the nuke you have which can very well scare out Pokemon to allow it to heal. Because half the moveset is comprised of Status moves it unfortunately can't be quite as threatening as I'd like once the light burns the sky, but Rock Tomb is a great utility move that weakens Pokemon that are otherwise not threatened by it such as Arceus Dark by letting its teammates take advantage of its lowered speed. Admittedly it would be nice to have it be able to do more to Zacian than lower its speed, but forcing it out is still sufficient if this team can stop it from getting momentum again, which I definitely believe it can.
This team's goal is to set a bunch of hazards and wear down the opponent with consistent damage before cleaning an end game with Marshadow, Arceus Dark, and/or Zygarde. Light That Burns the Sky is great at making progress and can blow a hole through the foe's team, and the threat of that forces the opponent to reposition and have their checks to it such as Arceus Dark and Yveltal take hazard chip and also perhaps get their speed lowered, which makes it easier for teammates to beat them or wear them down and can force them out to take more hazard chip. Toxic on Primal Groudon also adds invaluable chip that will wear down Pokemon in addition to everything else the team is doing. This is also a move that will very likely put Ho-Oh into range to be OHKO'd by Rock Tomb. This team has the bulk to do this a fair few times, and taking stray hits from Judgement, Thousand Arrows, Photon Geyser, and Brave Bird adds up a lot. All this is before accounting for the Marshadow in the back which absolutely loves every form of chip damage this team is constantly inflicting onto the opponent previously mentioned. I do think defensive Ultra Necrozma is a useful addition to this team that its teammates play off of well.