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VGC Reg M-B Metagame Discussion Thread

Sugarbear said:
Garchomp. Yeah I was sure this thing would be shit when I first heard it was losing its Ground typing, as part of Garchomp's charm is its incredible STAB combination. Maybe it could've been saved with a better ability, but Levitate doesn't really help it. Especially since base 141 SpA isn't that high without any boosting items. It actually doesn't hit as hard as Kommo-o, despite having 41 more SpA.

252+ SpA Life Orb Kommo-o Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 253-298 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Garchomp-Mega-Z Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 247-292 (72.4 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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If ChompZ actually had all the tools that Kommo-O does, it would actually be good. If anything, ChompZ feels like Dragapult, with similar damage output and a similar speed tier, and Dragapult is currently unemployed##.

I think the biggest problem with ChompZ, even beyond the lack of a secondary STAB, is the lack of good spread moves, which is ironically what base Chomp is known for, and something Kommo-O actually leverages well. Even Nasty Plot, I don't think is sufficient to salvage the situation because it has no way to get pass redirection.
Give Chomp Clanging Scales

## Speaking of Dragapult, (which nobody asked for, I know), I find it strange that it is as undeployed as it is. It sits in a valuable Speed tier that outspeeds Delphox and Raichu, it exploits Sneasler, it burns Kingambit and Staraptor, and it does all of these while being immune to Fake Out and Intimidate. Yet for some reason, it doesn't find a place on a team. Yes, it's weak to Kingambit and Basculegion, but so is Basculegion, and that thing is a monster.
 
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Xeggutor said:
Yes, it's weak to Kingambit and Basculegion, but so is Basculegion, and that thing is a monster.
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Dragapult actually has a shot at beating Basculegion unless it's Jolly Scarf. (Gets outsped by 1 point RIP.) LO Phantom Force has a decent to shot to OHKO bulky variants (roll in Basc's favor but it's not exactly hard to chip down slightly), can cause an attack whiff due to the temporary invulnerability, and Drag also resists Aqua Jet.

Not a surefire answer but can do the work if piloted well.
 
Karxrida said:
Dragapult actually has a shot at beating Basculegion unless it's Jolly Scarf. (Gets outsped by 1 point RIP.) LO Phantom Force has a decent to shot to OHKO bulky variants (roll in Basc's favor but it's not exactly hard to chip down slightly), can cause an attack whiff due to the temporary invulnerability, and Drag also resists Aqua Jet.

Not a surefire answer but can do the work if piloted well.
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And honestly, that just makes it more surprising that Dragapult is unemployed at the moment. Its Life Orb set, on paper, is functionally the same as Dragonite's Life Orb set, but trades the matchup into Kingambit for a better matchup into Garchomp, Raichu and Delphox behind Quick Guard.
I guess I just found my new teambuilding hyperfixation before 9 Sep comes round.
 
I mean, Basculegion has Adaptability Last Respect, Dragapult doesn't.
That should be enough to know why one sees play despite the flaws, the other doesn't.
Another thing Basculegion does and Dragapult doesn't is oneshot Charizard.
It's also very bulky so it can actually take a couple neutral hits and even some supereffective ones, Dragapult is mostly made of paper...

I don't quite see Dragapult's utility working in the current environment. It's usable, you're not exactly trying to work with Caterpie, but "usable" doesn't really cut it if you're trying to win.
 
Worldie said:
I mean, Basculegion has Adaptability Last Respect, Dragapult doesn't.
That should be enough to know why one sees play despite the flaws, the other doesn't.
Another thing Basculegion does and Dragapult doesn't is oneshot Charizard.
It's also very bulky so it can actually take a couple neutral hits and even some supereffective ones, Dragapult is mostly made of paper...

I don't quite see Dragapult's utility working in the current environment. It's usable, you're not exactly trying to work with Caterpie, but "usable" doesn't really cut it if you're trying to win.
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I can see Dragapult being "not top tier" but it’s strange how it is utterly and completely unemployed when it saw decent usage in a 80% Flutter Mane meta. It’s not like Dragapult is a VGC nobody. Dragapult was decent as recent as last year, without having to run Tera Blast or often without Ghost coverage for that matter.

Basculegion fundamentally plays a different role as a Water/Ghost nuker, but Dragapult is a Dragon type first and a Ghost type second, and would play more similar to LO Dragonite rather than Basculegion. Not to mention that it's strong against Delphox, Froslass and Basculegion on top of that.
It's astounding that being weak to Kingambit is enough to complete erase its relevance completely when other things weak to Kingambit are still shining just fine, especially when Kingambit doesn’t have a good line into WoW.
 
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Xeggutor said:
I can see Dragapult being "not top tier" but its strange how it is utterly and completely unemployed when it saw decent usage in a 80% Flutter Mane meta.
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I think the main difference is the speed tier, literally.

"outspeed flutter mane" was a pretty big deal, but ironically the speed tiers in this format arent that high, aside from some outliers most of the meta mons are contained within 110 and anything slower generally relies on Tailwind or priority.

I wouldn't in fact exclude Dragapult to suddently show up in M-C. We are about to get some speedsters (3 already confirmed, and we don't know what other 20 mons are coming), and usually when a pokemon is that fast, they often drop speed to invest in bulk or power (es Adamant unburden Sneasler), so Dragapult's ability to outspeed a uninvested or adamant/modest Z-mega may or may not become important.
 
Xeggutor said:
It's astounding that being weak to Kingambit is enough to complete erase its relevance completely when other things weak to Kingambit are still shining just fine, especially when Kingambit doesn’t have a good line into WoW.
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This is because Kingambit plays FFXIV and not WoW.

Frankly using Will-O-Wisp isn't even a sacrifice on Dragapult since what else will you run? You just need STABs. The only potential problem is you can't run both Dragon Darts and Dragon Claw when doing so to have the latter for guaranteed high damage.

Being able to burn Kingambit is enough reason to justify using a Dragapult, plus it can hit other things that hate burn like Mega Staraptor.
 
Personally, I'm thinking the easiest prediction to make about M-C differences from M-B is that Mega Swampert is going to crater even more than before. Getting clowned on by every legal Grass-type (e.g. Sinistcha, Venusaur) and, worse, Swift Swim Basculegion was enough to turn me off Mega Swampert in a rain team - now Rillaboom will get recruited as a Fake Out user than snipes all Basculegions (including ones with speed control) and just so happens to solve your Mega Swampert problem to boot. Oh, and it's one of the only Basculegion snipers to not be weak to Fighting.

And if Mega Tatsugiri gets Drizzle like I'm still predicting, Mega Swampert will truly be out of a job due to hypothetical Mega Tatsugiri winning the crucial initial weather war against Mega Charizard Y and Mega Froslass
 
Worldie said:
I think the main difference is the speed tier, literally.

"outspeed flutter mane" was a pretty big deal, but ironically the speed tiers in this format arent that high, aside from some outliers most of the meta mons are contained within 110 and anything slower generally relies on Tailwind or priority.

I wouldn't in fact exclude Dragapult to suddently show up in M-C. We are about to get some speedsters (3 already confirmed, and we don't know what other 20 mons are coming), and usually when a pokemon is that fast, they often drop speed to invest in bulk or power (es Adamant unburden Sneasler), so Dragapult's ability to outspeed a uninvested or adamant/modest Z-mega may or may not become important.
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Dragapult has historically been pretty bad into Flutter Mane because it loses to Booster Speed, Sash, Sun and Chiyu, and it often likes Tera Dragon Choice Band over Tera Ghost. That set was terrifying to stare down because Dragon Dart exerted immense anti-Protect pressure.

But I do see your point about Champions metagame being overall bulkier so Dragapult’s damage may not be sufficient. Maybe when we move into a faster format, and mons start to speed creep more and lose bulk, it could start seeing more use. Also, the loss of Choice Band probably hurt a lot too, because with a Life Orb it's barely missing out several important KOs.
Karxrida said:
This is because Kingambit plays FFXIV and not WoW.

Frankly using Will-O-Wisp isn't even a sacrifice on Dragapult since what else will you run? You just need STABs. The only potential problem is you can't run both Dragon Darts and Dragon Claw when doing so to have the latter for guaranteed high damage.

Being able to burn Kingambit is enough reason to justify using a Dragapult, plus it can hit other things that hate burn like Mega Staraptor.
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In general, good Dragapult teams don't really need Dragon Claw because if neither opponent goes for Protect, Pult's partner should be built to capitalise on it for a strong clean attack. Traditionally this was done with Chien-Pao, who in return, also powered-up CB Dragon Darts so much that nothing could afford to take both hits in a single turn. Maybe we just need Chien-Pao back lmao (please don't this is a joke)
 
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Xeggutor said:
In general, good Dragapult teams don't really need Dragon Claw because if neither opponent goes for Protect, Pult's partner should be built to capitalise on it for a strong clean attack.
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I am not a good teambuilder but maybe pair it with Floette-E? Since you mentioned wanting to build with Dragapult. Floette has strong spread damage and loves having something that exploits Sneasler and burns physical attackers.
 
Karxrida said:
I am not a good teambuilder but maybe pair it with Floette-E? Since you mentioned wanting to build with Dragapult. Floette has strong spread damage and loves having something that exploits Sneasler and burns physical attackers.
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I think Floette-E can potentially be a good pairing because anything that puts pressure on Protect makes Draining Kiss easier to click, but building creatively around Floette-E in M-B has been a struggle for me because my brain is hardwired into putting Sneasler/Incin/Sini and suddenly I'm just playing Floette Delphox again... and it's probably gonna be good because its just Floette Delphox. There are probably other good Floette builds, but for some reason my brain skipped the ‘consider alternatives’ update when it comes to Floette.

At least I have something to bash my head against while waiting for 9 Sep.
 
Haxlut said:
If M-Heatran gets Earth Eater, it will be doomsday
But if it doesn’t(i hope so) then i think it would get a new signature ability?
Probably Steam Engine cause Earth Eater will be way too broken.
(Primal Groudon please don’t look at me)
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Steam Engine would still be insane. With just 8 points of Speed investment, it can outrun Jolly Sneasler after its Unburden has triggered at +6.
 
It has been announced on the official site that we're getting 24 new base Pokemon, and six new Megas.

The six new Megas are the Z-Megas, Mega Salamence, Mega Golisopod, and Mega Baxcalibur. This leaves Mega Tatsugiri as the only non-legendary Mega that has yet to be added.

Screenshot 2026-09-02 1.45.23 PM.png
 
How viable with No Megas Rain be, especially in M-C? I'm thinking of swapping out Mega Mawile in my Rain team for Rillaboom based on the role I mainly use it for:
  • Pelipper: The mandatory Rain setter, pegs Sinistcha and Venusaur/Chlorophyll Grasses, prefer Rain Dance on it over Tailwind to screw over opposing weather harder
  • Archaludon: Pretty much mandatory on Rain, bring it in nearly all the time, wins so many games, thanks Electro Shot
  • Basculegion: The Swift Swimmer, Last Respects hits like a truck, outspeeds and OHKOes Mega Swampert(!)
  • Sinistcha: The redirector, prefer Heatproof(!) since I rarely switch it back and forth and it meets too many Mega Charizard Y's and Incineroars - I tend to lead with it if I bring it in - didn't use Strength Sap on it much, trying Reflect and it's quite fun(ny), also clowns Mega Swampert
  • Mega Mawile: The priority nuker of opposing Basculegions, I prefer having a great anti-Rain plan, I tend to win by not bringing Pelipper against opposing Rain, I prefer not being Fighting-weak in that slot due to sharing too many weaknesses with Archaludon otherwise and often needing to switch this into a Fighting move
  • Garchomp: Rock Slide OHKOer of Mega Charizard Y that natively outspeeds Zard Y and can tank Tailwind Zard Y, Lum Berry to negate Venusaur Sleep Powder since I have no Tailwind or Trick Room support right now, needs to stay Lum Berry even if given Fake Out support since too many Charizards Protect on Turn 1
In case you didn't catch it above, I've tried Mega Swampert and quickly developed a distaste for it due to it losing to Grasses and opposing Swift Swim Basculegion.

I think M-C is the best opportunity for No Megas Rain due to the regulation after that probably bringing in at least Mega Heatran and Mega Tatsugiri, which means probably more Mega sub-legendaries like Mega Latios and a nonzero chance of restricted legendaries such as Kyogre.

Will Rillaboom tear too many holes in this team replacing Mega Mawile, such as my decent Trick Room match-up?
 
The best way to think of Mega Garchomp Z is as a sidegrade to Mega Dragonite that trades bulk and a bit of power for much more speed.
 
Swagodile said:
The best way to think of Mega Garchomp Z is as a sidegrade to Mega Dragonite that trades bulk and a bit of power for much more speed.
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You're also giving up coverage, Tailwind, and the option to run priority. This isn't even getting into how it's an expensive way to run Garchomp, who is already a flexible S-tier mon. Chomp Z probably have its place thanks to that Speed but will still be rare.
 
Besides, from what i'm seeing, at least for now people theorize the way to run Garchomp Z may kinda be similar to what was theorized for Raichu X, aka run it as physical attacker. After all, regular Garchomp already ran bulky sets with low investment using its already high 130 attack, Garchomp Z can theoretically act as a midground between scarfchomp and bulky garchomp since it's super fast already which lets you invest in bulk and attack.

Now, is this worth giving up your mega slot for? Raichu X shown that no, it is not, and I expect the same to be true for Garchomp Z, but maybe having a speedster that can outspeed and 1hko Mega Salamence might end up being worth it, who knows.
 
Physical Chomp Z cannot ever OHKO uninvested Mega Mence (let alone if Intimidate is factored in) and Modest can fail to OHKO a Mence with full HP investment.

32+ SpA Garchomp-Mega-Z Dragon Pulse vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Salamence-Mega: 186-222 (92 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Mence can afford investing enough SpD to avoid the OHKO entirely, too.

32+ SpA Garchomp-Mega-Z Dragon Pulse vs. 32 HP / 11 SpD Salamence-Mega: 168-200 (83.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This means running Draco Meteor to secure the kill, and I've lost enough games to Draco misses to know that's not good enough.

Just run Ice Beam on Mega Dragonite. It doesn't miss and Mence never lives it.
 
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Sugarbear said:
Why would you run special moves on something with base 175 Attack?
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Okay, I know the obvious "oh but it had no ice stab" which yeah, this was more as a joke.
But 105 special attack combined with freeze dry to deal good chip damage to the bulky waters that would check it. Sure, you have dragon stab but the options for that are... mid. Glaive rush is by far the best but taking double damage is not great really. Then you have dragon claw (middling power), scale shot (inconsistent) and ig outrage/dragon rush (don't need to explain these two).
(unfortunately I can't do champs calcs since m-bax isn't in them so yeah)
0 SpA Baxcalibur-Mega Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blastoise-Mega: 74-90 (48 - 58.4%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Baxcalibur-Mega Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 68-84 (33.6 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Baxcalibur-Mega Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 50-60 (32 - 38.4%) -- 87.8% chance to 3HKO

Glaive rush does WAY more to these obviously, but this is decent enough chip on it and can get them low enough so it can reliably pick them off with glaive rush. Maybe just a 4A set? But I do think it will have a niche as a set.
 
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