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Announcement UU Suspect Process Round 18 - you are my sunshine - np: Ninetales

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Lycopoky said:
True, without increasing the speed stat through stat changes, Chlorophyll H-Lilligant is probably the fastest thing in the format besides bs like Scarf Eleki, which is not real at all. Granted Skarm and Dirge are common but you often run H-Arc, Ninetales, Heatran, etc. so they're not too bad, and it does beat Hippo which a lot of people here basically say is fantastic into Sun so having something that at least threatens good damage into it is very nice. Surprised to not see it brought up more, its not like Venu is your only viable Chlorophyll sweeper after all.
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unburdened hawlucha outspeeds but idt terrain is used that much anymore
 
I just got the reqs a few days ago. Out of about forty games, I may have faced Sun five times at most, with only one Ninetales. And whether with or without Ninetales, Sun didn’t seem particularly broken to me. I was playing a Balanced team with Tyranitar, Latios and Gambex (which is particularly threatening against this archetype due to its ability to pressure and revenge kill very easily), and it made it easier of course, but these are very common mons (not to mention Heatran) and I'm convinced that Sun can't dominate the meta that much with such common checks.

My opinion is based on my own experience during this suspect test and may not be the most objective opinion, but it’s clear-cut: I’ll vote “Do not ban”.
 
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Despite telling myself I wouldn’t have time, I managed to get requirements in the final hour. However, I feel more split on this suspect test than any other in UU.

Ninetales doesn’t feel like the root problem. Sun’s overall strength comes from its pool of offensive beneficiaries rather than the enabler itself. While Ninetales and Slither Wing have potent synergies with Encore and Healing Wish, those interactions only pop up in a fraction of games compared to Torkoal builds. Banning Ninetales won't fully fix how overwhelming sun feels if a team lacks specific anti-sun checks, and voting for a partial fix out of resignation rather than conviction is frustrating. Still, a Ninetales ban gives us the opportunity to continue to observe sun in the metagame and reassess down the line while following tiering policy.

I voted to move Ninetales to UUBL.
 
missangelic said:
Despite telling myself I wouldn’t have time, I managed to get requirements in the final hour. However, I feel more split on this suspect test than any other in UU.

Ninetales doesn’t feel like the root problem. Sun’s overall strength comes from its pool of offensive beneficiaries rather than the enabler itself. While Ninetales and Slither Wing have potent synergies with Encore and Healing Wish, those interactions only pop up in a fraction of games compared to Torkoal builds. Banning Ninetales won't fully fix how overwhelming sun feels if a team lacks specific anti-sun checks, and voting for a partial fix out of resignation rather than conviction is frustrating. Still, a Ninetales ban gives us the opportunity to continue to observe sun in the metagame and reassess down the line while following tiering policy.

I voted to move Ninetales to UUBL.
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interesting take. i agree with most of your reasoning. solid reads and conclusions. except one

i'm not sure voting to ban a mon you know is not the problem just to test how the meta behaves without it is the right path tho. i think the meta as it is gives us enough clues to conclude that if ninetales gets banned, sun will just adjust with torkoal (as it has been doing it even before the results), and the sun beneficiaries you so correctly mention will still roam around

you got the reqs, tho. and im glad you use your vote as you wish
 
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LilOu said:
i'm not sure voting to ban a mon you know is not the problem just to test how the meta behaves without it is the right path
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To clarify, it’s not to test the meta so much as ideally continue tiering action, as I indicated in my post that this would be part of the incrementalist path of tiering policy a couple other users also outlined in this thread. With the tiering policy being that Pokemon are banned before non-Pokemon elements and the UU council electing to have Ninetales be the target element for this suspect, I know that if I want to see an eventual ban on any other elements that I have to first participate in this suspect and then advocate for or support follow-up action. I hope that makes that line a little clearer.
 
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