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Metagame Champions UU Metagame Discussion [October Shifts #131]

As the metagame progresses with CHAMPL ongoing, figured it was probably fitting to talk about some controversial threats that people have been complaining about. These aren't in any much of an order but some threats are debatably more troublesome than others.


Mega Feraligatr
gatr.gif

:feraligatr-mega: :
Mega Gatr is pretty much just the definition of an absurdly strong sweeper. The speed tier is convenient as well as with an adamant nature and a +1 dragon dance boost you are just faster than Jolly Weavile one of the fastest natural pokemon. It has the bulk and the immediate damage output where it can force out many pokemon and set up one or two dragon dances and bowl over teams and its dragon stab is absurdly strong, for reference a +1 Adamant Mega Gatr has a 50% chance to OHKO max defense Sinistcha with double edge and it can tech other dragon stab such as facade for status & body slam for the para chance. It has other coverage such as ice punch (for what?) and earthquake for Azumarill & Empoleon two of the most meta relevant mons that can take on Mega Gatr. The premier physical walls Hippowdon & Rhyperior get destroyed by liquidation and Skarmory being effortlessly destroyed by Sword Dance Mega Gatr alongside the very few viable Fairy type Pokemon leaves this thing absurdly hard to check. It even has Aqua Jet so it is able to revenge kill one of the best scarfers in the tier Choice Scarf Arcanine-Hisui. This is one of the most oppressive Pokemon in the builder to check and a nightmare to face on preview so that's where I will leave it.


Mega Gardevoir
e8fde48e6bc4dfb9dc7afa19af6761b3.gif

:gardevoir-mega: :
Just a super strong wallbreaker, has mystical fire for the few specially defensive steels such as Tinkaton and Focus Blast for Empoleon, Hyper Voice + Psychic STAB (Psyshock/Psychic Noise) & Mystical Fire hit pretty much everything for neutral damage and its STAB Hyper Voice two shotting pretty much everything, with even the bulkiest of special Pokemon such as Goodra Hisui and Vaporeon getting 3HKO'd by Hyper Voice. The 4th move slot can be varied, Calm Mind can be used to nuke balance teams, Taunt can be used to punish status/recovery, Vacuum Wave could be used for priority. Even though it has only base 100 speed that is still fast enough to rip open most teams, pretty much just kills balance & fat from ever being a strong archetype ever as its raw power just wreaks havoc.


Maushold

9ZkVXZWU5zHoRmE8NNMa.gif

:maushold: :
With the absence of Rocky Helmet as well as good contact punishers with the only notable ones Flame Body Talonflame and Static Belibolt being niche. At +1 Maushold OHKO's the premier physical walls such as phys def Gliscor and Hippowdon. Rhyperior effortlessly devours Maushold but that comes at the cost of using a Pokemon with no recovery with it having major downsides from Hippowdon, while the only Ghost types bulky enough to withstand Maushold Sinistcha and Mega Sableye, the latter being relegated to the bulkiest of teams. For Steels, the only real ones that can stand against Maushold are Skarmory, Orthworm and Forretress with the former being the only one with recovery. Maushold alongside the vast amount of physical attackers in the tier make building a defensive core excruciatingly difficult.


Weavile
0e0020d1e7686c24afe14dc79f1cbb50.gif

:weavile::
Swords Dance Weavile with a Life Orb/Never-Melt Ice being a very potent and threatening wall breaker alongside the very limited priority makes it a very restricting presence when teambuilding. Long term Weavile is almost impossible to stop with it even being able to OHKO Skarmory with Life Orb boosted Triple Axel. Weavile has to usually be dealt with by accumulating passive damage to where it can be revenge killed such as hazards, sandstorm chip even its own Life Orb recoil. With it being always able to force progress with Knock Off removing Leftovers and berries and its checks for the most part being not only exploitable but also having no recovery, Weavile stands out as one of the most threatening forces to Balance.
 
Hello again! Council has been watching how the meta has been playing out in Champs PL and we have more tiering on the way so without further ado...

:sv/gardevoir-mega:
Mega Gardevoir has unanimously been quickbanned from Champions UU via council vote! Tagging dhelmise or Marty for implementation.

Reasoning from council members will be down below. This Pokemon post Mega Alakazam and Zards bans has always been on the radar so it's about time frankly.

Mega Garde's defensive answers are really far and few between. If you think of a check to it like Empoleon or Klefki or Mega Chimecho, they still find themselves 3HKOd minimum by coverage whether thats Aura Sphere, Focus Blast, or Mystical Fire. Special attackers in Champions are just stronger by default since there's a lot less special walls to deal with and standard spdef walling doesn't work with this mon because Psyshock from 165spatk doesnt target Spdef! Things like Milotic and Vaporeon, two common spdef walls just fold to Psyshock easily. Just click Hyper Voice and nothing else.
Most steels are not really durable into this mon without being Mega Chimecho. Tinkaton and Klefki are one (maybe two) time answers at best and way too passive to punish a switch out. Speed is just good enough to where it doesn't have to worry about many faster threats and the ones it would care about (Serperior, Alakazam, Greninja) have very notable power issues that allow Gardevoir to pull off a lot of two for one trades. In the case of Weavile or Hisuan Arcanine, Vacuum Wave just makes quick work of them. Don't want to invest time trying to check this mon anymore
I want to ban Mega Gardevoir. It is safe to say that this tier isn't equipped to handle it. Fairy-resists compose of Tinkaton who can be easily worn down, especially if Garde opts in to use Wisp. Empoleon gets owned by Focus Blast and Thunderbolt to some extent, and SpDef Milotic and Vaporeon do not enjoy the prospect of taking a Psyshock. Revenge killing is horrible without stuff like Boots, and the fact that Garde can use Vaccum Wave to pickoff Weavile, Harc, and Gren just makes it worse
Mega Gardevoirs cracked damage output with Pixilate Hyper Voice and Psyshock alongside Mystical Fire for Steel types and Focus Blast for Empoleon make it a monster to stop defensively. With no Choice Band and Choice Specs its harder to revenge kill as well as it having access to Vacuum Wave being able to pick off revenge killers such as Weavile and Arcanine-Hisui and great utility in Psychic Noise/Taunt. Mega Gardevoir is a nightmare to stop offensively or defensively which contrains and limits options in the builder.
Our steels don’t answer this Pokemon, and our faster mons have trouble OHKOing it, meaning it can easily do 2 for 1 trades. It is absurd to build around, and needs to go
 
With M-C just being released and a bunch of items being added there will be some significant changes for UU:

:rocky-helmet: - One of the biggest if not the biggest change. Rocky Helmet has FINALLY given champs uu contact punishing making pivot spam teams less obnoxious. Previously in order to contact punish you would need stuff like flame body talonflame & static belibolt which are very niche however now you can put helmet on skarmory or hippowdon! This will also make maushold a whole less annoying to face which is always a good thing.

:air-balloon: - probably not as impactful due to the limited amount of good steels however air balloon is always a plus for pokemon such as Tinkaton with Pickpocket to steal items. Also with the limited amount of items air balloon can be used on random mons to just give a one time ground immunity which is neat.

:eject-button: - Good on HO, good with regenerator mons like slowking & apple. niche item but probably more impactful due to no boots.

:electric-seed: :psychic-seed: - Hawlucha will go stupid (probably quite banworthy?) & psyspam with stuff like armarouge will be insane as well. Once pincurchin & indeedee drop that is
 
:raichu-mega-x::hawlucha::skarmory::milotic::arcanine-hisui::tsareena:
Raichu-Mega-X @ Raichunite X
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 2 HP / 32 SpA / 32 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Rising Voltage
- Surf
- Grass Knot

Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
Level: 50
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 32 HP / 2 Atk / 32 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Roost
- Taunt
- Brave Bird

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 32 HP / 32 Def / 2 SpA
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Flip Turn

Arcanine-Hisui @ Air Balloon
Ability: Rock Head
Level: 50
EVs: 1 HP / 32 Atk / 1 SpD / 32 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Head Smash
- Extreme Speed
- Morning Sun

Tsareena (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Level: 50
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Team I slapped together with some of the new items. Obviously Electric Seed Hawlucha paired with Raichu X is a massive threat, but Air Balloon is really nice on Hisuian Arcanine and Rocky Helmet Skarm with Milotic is a really solid defensive core. Scarf Tsareena probably isn't the best option for a spinner in retrospect but I think the rest of the team more than makes up for it.
 
Effective immediately I will be stepping down from Champions UU council and tier leader.

I much enjoyed my time here but I'm afraid I haven't been giving this tier the attention it needs and haven't been making an effort to keep up with metagame trends either, making me detrimental as a leader. This isn't really to say I've been disatisfied with the metagame but my priorities have clearly shifted and I'm not going to sit here and lie to anyone and let say that I have the motivation to get back in the swing of things. I don't.

TTK is the new tier leader.

Decidueye409 has also stepped down from council. Thanks for helping me get this tier off the ground.
 
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Hi guys, this tier is now in disarray thanks to some very funny drops so here they are!

  • :delphox-mega: Delphox-Mega
  • :dragalge-mega: Dragalge-Mega
  • :farfetchd: Farfetch'd
  • :floette-mega: Floette-Mega
  • :gogoat: Gogoat
  • :golisopod: Golisopod
  • :grapploct: Grapploct
  • :houndstone: Houndstone
  • :indeedee::indeedee-F: Indeedee formes
  • :inteleon: Inteleon
  • :lopunny-mega: Lopunny-Mega
  • :mabosstiff: Mabosstiff
  • :mawile-mega: Mawile-Mega
  • :meganium-mega: Meganium-Mega
  • :metagross-mega: Metagross-Mega
  • :mr-mime: Mr. Mime
  • :perrserker: Perrserker
  • :persian: Persian
  • :persian-alola: Persian-Alola
  • :pincurchin: Pincurchin
  • :salamence: Salamence
  • :scizor: Scizor
  • :sirfetchd: Sirfetch'd
  • :squawkabilly: Squawkabilly
  • :staraptor-mega: Staraptor-Mega
  • :swalot: Swalot
  • :swampert-mega: Swampert-Mega
  • :thievul: Thievul
  • :toxtricity: Toxtricity
  • :wigglytuff: Wigglytuff

I'll probably make a post with my thoughts on all these new megas later, but some of them are probably getting quickbanned immediately so be on the lookout.
 
Going to post thoughts on some of these drops:

:floette-mega: :metagross-mega:
- Not even going to waste time explaining why these are broken, very few resists to fairy and almost none of them besides tinkaton can threaten floette meaningfully. Metagross has insane damage output, ohkos gliscor with ice punch. Sure swampert is a pretty good check & skarmory can wall mega metagross without getting tpunch para'd but without them you are pretty much cooked if you run anything remotely offensive.

:meganium-mega:
- Unwallable, this thing will just nuke any semblence of a defensive core and it is so bulky that it can just trade with most things.

:staraptor-mega: :lopunny-mega:
- This fighting duo will probably also kick the bucket soo, mega staraptor will be super unkillable, pretty much requiring whirlwind skarmory to beat. Mega lopunny with Swords Dance and Mach Punch would be too much as well, outspeeds and OHKO's everything.

:delphox-mega:
- as much as starbitstorm wants to claim how delphox will be fine, it wont lol, has all the coverage in the world, pretty difficult to revenge kill in all honesty really only scarf harcanine can effectively revenge and OHKO this and it just destroys the ground types like pert/hippo/scor. Ill eat a brick on camera if mega delphox doesnt get banned

:mawile-mega:
- could potentially be very problematic, however its slow speed and reliance on sucker for faster threats could make this potentially exploitable. that being said very not suprised if this kicks the boot.

:scizor-mega:
- Similar vein with mawile except has very accurate priority and is very troublesome to kill. Probably kicks the boot but maybe i am wrong and rotom heat becomes the best mon and mega scizor falls to RU.

:indeedee:/:indeedee-f:
- Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Psychic terrain will defintely be busted but how this gets managed will be intresting. Hawlucha and armarouge will defintely become very problematic tho thats for sure.

:swampert-mega:
- Buff for rain i suppose? Seems very troublesome though if you dont have a sinistcha or intim mence. Rain will appreicate this a lot.

:dragalge-mega:
- Mon im most excited for this shift, finally a defensive poison type and a special wall and regen mon?!?!? Can't wait for this to leave in a month but will be fun times using it.

:grapploct: & :sirfetchd:
- Grapplock buff will make this quite a strong breaker & seems pretty fun. Sirfetch'd has Defog which will defintely be useful but its offensive merits will not be forgotten, Leek & Pjab+Knock is hype

:salamence:
- Good offensive mon i guess, seems cool. Good defensive utility as well & a special attacker is always appreciated.

:scizor:
- Defog mon and priority in one slot yay :)
 
Hey everyone, like I mentioned in my October shifts post, there's going to be some emergency tiering for UU so the two ongoing teamtours are not having blatantly broken Pokemon running around and this is what the council has decided.

:xy/floette-mega::xy/meganium-mega::xy/metagross-mega::xy/lopunny-mega:
Floette-Mega, Meganium-Mega, Metagross-Mega, and Lopunny-Mega have been quickbanned from Champions UU via council vote. Tagging dhelmise or Marty to implement!

Floette-Mega is way too strong for UU to handle when we are lacking sufficient special walls that actually resist Fairy like OU does like Toxapex or Slowking-G. Since the Poison-types are not reliable answers, we fall back on our Steel-types but the only Steel-types equipped to handle it reliably are Empoleon or Mega Chimecho, other Steels lack reliable recovery and will be easily worn down by repeated hits. Floette's bulk is also quite solid when invested and due to its lack of weaknesses, it can trade vs most Pokemon in the tier with no difficulty after a Calm Mind.

Meganium on the other hand has just as much immediate power, except it can actually beat Steels thanks to Weather Ball and/or Earth Power. Meganium essentially invalidates defensive structures in the tier as most defensive structures are cleanly OHKOd or severely 2HKOd by its STABs. Despite the fact that Mega Dragalge dropped at the same time as Meganium, it's not a fair ask to justify Meganium's presence when that's the only consistent switchin to the Pokemon.

Metagross needs no introduction. For a Pokemon of its bulk, power, and speed, outside of spamming Hippowdon or Skarmory, Metagross is functionally very difficult to switch into and threatens offence like no other. It's simply too strong and not a particularly positive presence in the tier. Even its offensive checks like Scarf Gengar or Weavile are nowhere close to OHKOing it from full and they simply are OHKOd in return.

Lopunny would probably be fine in Champions UU if Swords Dance was not in its movepool. We do have the defensive responses to it at +0 (Hippowdown, Skarmory, Mega Venu and others) but after a boost, all of these Pokemon are put under control by the combination of Close Combat + Triple Axel. It doesn't help that Lopunny is faster than everything outside of Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Sceptile and common scarfers attempting to revenge kill it such as Greninja and Arcanine-H lose to +2 Mach Punch.

We will continue to be monitoring the rest of the other drops, like Mega Swampert, Mega Delphox, Mega Staraptor, and Mega Mawile but these drops are overshadowing the good drops that this format has desperately needed, such as Defog Scizor, Mega Dragalge, and even Sirfetch'd thanks to Defog.
 
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