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★ VGC Reg M-C Metagame Discussion Thread

I just used this strategy on Champions yesterday, i learned it from Haydunn and oh my Arceus every single Slash is a crit, every Hyper Voice is a double crit.
I pair my M-Salamence with Unburden Sceptile
I dont see the point of this. A crit slash is dealing the same damage as a regular double edge. You're spending a turn for no damage gain and only removing the double edge recoil.

At this point you might as well just run a mon that can help mitigate damage like fake out, intimidate, follow me, friend guard, matcha, heal pulse, life dew, because now you can run good mons that can support everybody on your team instead of sceptile.

Crits let you bypass intimidate drops but by that point just click hyper voice. Hyper voice meanwhile only has a 50% chance to crit with dragon cheer. Might as well just run helping hand and get the same amount of damage on demand.

With all that being said I do not think dragon cheer could ever be good. You must spend a turn targeting a dragon type AND sacrifice an item slot to scope lens or run low bp attacks for a boost equivalent to work up. The distribution is so bad and will likely remain bad due to thematic reasons, which means that unless you want to run salazzle or support charizard, you will be constantly bodied by dazzling gleam. Sure you get the ability to spam draco with 0 drawbacks but that still doesn't fix the fairy problem. Too much effort, too easy to stop, not enough reward.
 
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Is there a reason why absol Z isn't used that often? I get that fairy and the fact that it's a glass cannon are problems but I see Lucario Z more often than absol Z
 
Absol Z also has the main issue that it doesn't hit as hard as you'd expect to.

A pokemon that frail needs to either have spread moves or pick up 1hkos to trade favorably. It can't 1hko anything on neutral and most of the time it hits for 80-90% then goes down.
It's a ok secondary mega if you really REALLY need to fix your delphox, froslass or gengar matchup, but there are other options that are almost as good and don't take the mega slot.
 
To give an idea of how frail Absol Z is:

32+ Atk Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Absol-Mega-Z: 102-120 (71.8 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Black Glasses has a small chance to oneshot and LO is basically a coin flip to OHKO. Lord help you if Defiant activated. And unlike Raichu Y you likely can't afford to invest substantially in bulk since you probably want both the Speed and power.
 
OK, so the Frankfurt regionals have just wrapped up. Here are the top 8 teams (I'll put in Spoiler tags if you haven't watched the matches yet, they were brilliant).

8th place: Giuseppe Musicco.
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7th place: Valentijn Visser.
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6th place: Juan Manuel Ordiozola.
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5th place: Anthony Liuzzo.
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4th place: Eden Batchelor.
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3rd place: Yvar Vlieger.
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2nd place: Sebastian Liu Li.
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1st place: Eric Rios.
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If you want importables, click the pictures of the Pokemon on this page.

My thoughts:
  • Mega Garchomp Z won! Not just that, both the finalists had one so it clearly wasn't a fluke. I remember everyone (including me) saying it was rubbish, and lo and behold it proved us all wrong.
  • Speaking of stuff everyone said was rubbish. No, you're not hallucinating, that is Mega Meowstic in top 4! I have no idea why Yvar ran that over Mega Gardevoir, but clearly it worked. Fake Out and Competetive pre mega is nice.
  • Incineroar regains its crown with 7/8 teams having one. You just can't argue with that support kit.
  • Salamence is nowhere to be seen. I should point out 1 did place 9th, but the Pokemon that was hyped as the best returning mega didn't get top 8 this time. I guess more people were ready for it.
  • Raichu-Y takes the gold medal. Fuck that thing, that mouse is so damn annoying. If you're running it and get haxed out of a win, I will have 0 sympathy for you and will consider it karmic justice.
  • While it's not as surprising as Mega Meowstic, Mega Glimmora cracking the top 8 is still a welcome sight.
  • Mega Charizard Y proves it's still relevant.
  • No Sand teams this time despite taking home the gold at the last regionals. Looking at a lot of the most used Pokemon in the top 8, it would've struggled.
  • Perish Trap proves it's still viable despite claims it had fallen off.
  • Lastly, Mega Dragonite shows it's not outclassed by Mega Salamence by not just beating it, but by making 2 top 8 appearances (1 in top 4).
  • Overall a really diverse top 8, with some incredible plays. Already liking this meta more than M-B.
My personal favourite teams

3rd place.
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Mega Meowstic. Still can't believe how well this thing did.

20th place. Paschalis Dermentzis.
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Perish Trap with...Mega Altaria? I guess it helps in the matchup against Mega Salamence and Mega Dragonite.

31st place. Frithjof Haugwitz.
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Even though it had Mega Raichu Y, I still love this team for including Azumarill.

55th place. Shai Giuseppe Raba.
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Mega Pyroar making day 2 is amazing. It has some really neat tech too, like Scorching Sands on Pyroar for I'm guessing H-Arcanine and Calm Mind on Mega Gardevoir to turn up the pressure. No Clangorous Soul on Kommo-o either.
 
I am honestly really curious of what the process behind meowstic was.
The guy went 12-1 iirc, so it definitely "worked", but 2 out of his 3 streamed matches he got absolutely obliterated.

Like, i see the vision, fake out and competitive pre mega are nice, and you can get to trace some key abilities (like tracing Raichu's lightning rod in one of the matches, or taking a incin intimidate for a +2 spark and then flip back a -1), but I wish we actually got to see it "do something"
 
I am honestly really curious of what the process behind meowstic was.
The guy went 12-1 iirc, so it definitely "worked", but 2 out of his 3 streamed matches he got absolutely obliterated.

Like, i see the vision, fake out and competitive pre mega are nice, and you can get to trace some key abilities (like tracing Raichu's lightning rod in one of the matches, or taking a incin intimidate for a +2 spark and then flip back a -1), but I wish we actually got to see it "do something"
Someone in top 128 in Brisbane regionals also ran a similar team with the same Pokemon.

Yes Fake Out and Competitive, in particular Competitive discouraging Incineroar who checks Psyspam and Salamence who checks the other Mega Zard Y. Great speed tier outspeeding Mega Mence and Sneasler unlike Mega Gard. Trace can potentially get some useful abilities, in particular Mega Raichu Y who outspeeds Mega Meowstic. Although it can backfire against Rillaboom, the team has Sneasler, Kommo-O and Zard Y to check it. Meowstic is also useable without Mega Evolving as a support alongside Zard Y.
 
In my last post I talked about the Frankfurt regionals. Now, we're going to the other side of the world (roughly) to talk about the Brisbane top 8. In Spoiler tags for those who still want to watch the matches.

8th place: Daniel Quek.
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7th place: Keigo Tanizawa.
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6th place: Daniel Walker.
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5th place: Matthew Henry.
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4th place: Joshua Sutherland-Smith.
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3rd place: Jude Gerard Lee Wei Cong.
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2nd place: Haruki Sato.
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1st place: Kiran Singh.
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If you want importables, click this link then the square under List.

  • At Frankfurt they were saying Water types were falling off, yet more than half the teams here had them with 2 having 2 of them.
  • On that subject, Rain seemed very strong this time 4 of the top 8 teams having it.
  • Double Weather seems strong too, with both the winner and 8th place running it.
  • Mega Garchomp Z takes home another gold medal. Yep, all the people who said it was rubbish are eating our words. I think it's a similar case to Mega Dragonite - while it doesn't have the KO potential of megas like Charizard and Floette, it can nearly always trade positively. While Dragonite uses its bulk, Garchomp-Z uses its Speed - even with a Modest nature it gets the jump on positive natured base 130s.
  • 3rd place has another mega most people have always dismissed as being bad - normal Mega Garchomp. My guess is that it's similar to Mega Tyranitar, where it's the secondary mega for matchups where you don't want to bring Floette.
  • Yet again, no Sand teams in the top 8 (although 1 did make 11th). It seems like the Baltimore win was a fluke for that style, or the player using it was just that good.
  • Most common Pokemon this time was actually Sneasler, with 6 of them making top 8.
  • Despite Mega Golisopod's hype, it didn't do very well here with the highest placing being 48th place
  • Swampert proves that despite Rillaboom's presence it can still put in good work
  • Only 2 Incineroars this time.
  • Most common mega was Floette with 5 of them
  • Mega Gengar with double Fake Out support...and no Perish Trap? I'm not complaining, I hate facing that style it's so tedious. Plus it's a lot like stall and Baton Pass in singles - if your opponent is equipped to deal with it, you're basically screwed.
  • My personal favourite of those top 8 teams was Daniel Walker's 6th place. Sunny Day Weak Armor Armarouge is nuts, but clearly it worked.
  • Overall another diverse, interesting top 8. I'm already enjoying M-C more than M-B.
  • Finally, not one Mega Raichu Y. There is justice in the world!

9th place: Scott Kennedy.
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A Rain team with a Trick Room mode too. Soak Pelipper is great tech, I'm guessing to give Archaludon and Sinistcha a super effective hit. Sableye over Grimmsnarl I'm guessing is for Rain Dance and Will-o-Wisp

22nd place: Drew Bliss.
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Another rain balance team, but this one with a psyspam mode with Mega Starmie of all things! I think the Rain boosted, STAB boosted, Huge Power boosted Liquidations had so much power they could dump the rest of the EVs in Special Attack for a strong mixed set. Also, Mega Gengar but without Perish Trap.

32nd place: Jivan Bhana.
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A new take on the classic Italian snow team archetype, this one featuring Mega Blaziken and non mega Baxcalibur. Ice Body + Grassy Terrain + Leftovers gives it 18.7% recovery per turn, almost a fifth of its health at the end of each turn. Not to mention the boosts from both Snow and Aurora Veil.
 
Re: soak pelipper. Just a speculation, but I suspect it's not just to give the supereffective hit.
It has some other situational-yet-useful upsides, like removing stab and changing certain 1hkos in guaranteed survivals, or removing sand/snow defensive boosts.
 
  • Mega Garchomp Z takes home another gold medal. Yep, all the people who said it was rubbish are eating our words. I think it's a similar case to Mega Dragonite - while it doesn't have the KO potential of megas like Charizard and Floette, it can nearly always trade positively. While Dragonite uses its bulk, Garchomp-Z uses its Speed - even with a Modest nature it gets the jump on positive natured base 130s.
I’m quite happy that Garchomp-Z came out good. A format where trading positively is almost everything and you have decent bulk, decent typing along with good match up into meta guarantee success.
 
M-C meta is brilliantly diverse. Hope we'll see some interesting new approaches in Louisville Regional, happening right now this weekend
 
I intended on going to my first local this past weekend (on the 10th), but family stuff came up last minute. Was planning on running the Psychic Corviknight Sand squad that won that regional, but I also really wanted to have some sort of Mega Glimma squad. So I whipped up my own team on Sunday (based partially on the one that made top 8 at Frankfurt) and tested it a bit on ladder.

Preliminary results are promising. Mega Glimmora easy OHKOs anything weak to its STAB combo (which is a lot of things in the meta) and heavily chunks anything neutral, plus once I got a Toxic Debris proc off a predicted switch into a Flare Blitz. One layer of Toxic Spikes put in a lot of work that game even if that wasn't my primary game plan (cause Mega).

My locals thankfully occur every weekend so I can try this team against (presumably) competent, non-ladder players soon. Cause I'm in Ultra Ball on ladder right now lol.
 
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OK so Louisville has just finished. Here are the top 16 teams (thought I'd expand a bit this time.)

16th: London Faust.
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15th: Wyatt Fout.
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14th: Carson Confer.
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13th: Caden Croft.
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12th: Brian Hough.
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11th: Yichun Wu.
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10th: Keanu Inosanto:
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9th: Toler Webb.
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8th: Ryan Loseto.
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7th: Justin Burns.
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6th: Cary D'Ortana.
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5th: Paul Chua.
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4th place: JJ Millar.
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3rd place: Dorian Kang.
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2nd place: Andrew Figueras.
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1st place: Joseph Ugarte.
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If you want imports of the teams, click the pictures of the Pokemon on this page, and then click on the pictures.

  • Mega Raichu X makes top 4! Jamie Boyt's predictions were partially true, he said it would get better with the introduction of Electric Seed, but Dorian's team didn't have that. I'm guessing Dorian chose Raichu-X to shut off opposing Sleep moves, boost Archaludon's Electro Shot and generally be more useful than Y outside mega evolving,
  • No Raichu-Y in the top 8. Justice continues, fuck that annoying mouse.
  • Only 1 Rillaboom in top 8. That does seem odd, considering 7 out of the top 8 teams had a Water type and 4th place JJ Millar had 2.
  • Speaking of 4th place, Mega Staraptor proves it can still cut it.
  • Slightly lacking showing from Mega Salamence, although 2 in top 8 is still respectable.
  • Charizard proves it's lost nothing, taking home all top 3 spots as well as 5th and 8th.
  • Female Basculegion manages its first (?) top 16. Even though it doesn't hit as hard as Male, I think it having a more reliable STAB early game in Shadow Ball coupled with not caring about Intimidate gave it the edge here.
  • Venusaur really popped off. Maybe that's why there were so few Rillabooms
  • Garchomp-Z couldn't close out the trilogy, although one did still make 9th.
  • Base Glimmora manages a top 16.
  • Overall wasn't as diverse as the Frankfurt and Brisbane regionals, but still plenty of variety.
  • Finally: ALCREMIE!! I've got to try that team. No that's not the reason I went to top 16 today, where did you get that idea...

Some of my personal favourite teams outside top 16:
29th: Matthew Woodruff.
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Double Mega, Triple Fire. Burn to the Ground!

36th: Andrew Cavanah.
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This team is hilarious. Mega Greninja! Choice Scarf Tsareena with Aromatic Mist! Actually that's pretty smart, gives Archaludon a +1 SpDef boost to stack with Stamina. Special Attacking Mega Swampert! I mean female Basculegion doens't fill the mega slot and can hit harder with Life Orb, but I guess they wanted STAB Earth Power to smack Archaludon.
 
Slightly lacking showing from Mega Salamence, although 2 in top 8 is still respectable.
I feel Mega Salamence has the issue people are overprepared for it.
Everyone respects it as mega, and basically every team has 1 or more answers to it. It does not help that it shares certain answers with Charizard.

A "suffering from success" issue.
 
Top 6 are old MA, MB team @@ can anyone explain why?? No terrain at all

Rillaboom just hasn't been as strong as everyone thought it would be this time. Rain has ways around it - Pelipper smashes it with Hurricane, Archaludon sits on it all day and welcomes the extra recovery, Mega Golisopod one shots it etc. Sun is a terrible matchup for it too, Charizard and Venusaur both x4 resist Grass and OHKO it with their own STABs (I think Venusaur fails if it has bulk not sure about calcs. Psychic Terrain is quite team specific, and Gardevoir struggles with bulky rain and we've seen quite a few double weather teams. I've tried using them, I can't stand them, but you can't deny their effectiveness. There are no Misty Surge users, but we did get Mega Raichu X in top 4 so there's still some terrain.
 
In my last post I talked about the Frankfurt regionals. Now, we're going to the other side of the world (roughly) to talk about the Brisbane top 8. In Spoiler tags for those who still want to watch the matches.

8th place: Daniel Quek.
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7th place: Keigo Tanizawa.
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6th place: Daniel Walker.
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5th place: Matthew Henry.
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4th place: Joshua Sutherland-Smith.
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3rd place: Jude Gerard Lee Wei Cong.
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2nd place: Haruki Sato.
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1st place: Kiran Singh.
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If you want importables, click this link then the square under List.

  • At Frankfurt they were saying Water types were falling off, yet more than half the teams here had them with 2 having 2 of them.
  • On that subject, Rain seemed very strong this time 4 of the top 8 teams having it.
  • Double Weather seems strong too, with both the winner and 8th place running it.
  • Mega Garchomp Z takes home another gold medal. Yep, all the people who said it was rubbish are eating our words. I think it's a similar case to Mega Dragonite - while it doesn't have the KO potential of megas like Charizard and Floette, it can nearly always trade positively. While Dragonite uses its bulk, Garchomp-Z uses its Speed - even with a Modest nature it gets the jump on positive natured base 130s.
  • 3rd place has another mega most people have always dismissed as being bad - normal Mega Garchomp. My guess is that it's similar to Mega Tyranitar, where it's the secondary mega for matchups where you don't want to bring Floette.
  • Yet again, no Sand teams in the top 8 (although 1 did make 11th). It seems like the Baltimore win was a fluke for that style, or the player using it was just that good.
  • Most common Pokemon this time was actually Sneasler, with 6 of them making top 8.
  • Despite Mega Golisopod's hype, it didn't do very well here with the highest placing being 48th place
  • Swampert proves that despite Rillaboom's presence it can still put in good work
  • Only 2 Incineroars this time.
  • Most common mega was Floette with 5 of them
  • Mega Gengar with double Fake Out support...and no Perish Trap? I'm not complaining, I hate facing that style it's so tedious. Plus it's a lot like stall and Baton Pass in singles - if your opponent is equipped to deal with it, you're basically screwed.
  • My personal favourite of those top 8 teams was Daniel Walker's 6th place. Sunny Day Weak Armor Armarouge is nuts, but clearly it worked.
  • Overall another diverse, interesting top 8. I'm already enjoying M-C more than M-B.
  • Finally, not one Mega Raichu Y. There is justice in the world!

9th place: Scott Kennedy.
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A Rain team with a Trick Room mode too. Soak Pelipper is great tech, I'm guessing to give Archaludon and Sinistcha a super effective hit. Sableye over Grimmsnarl I'm guessing is for Rain Dance and Will-o-Wisp

22nd place: Drew Bliss.
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Another rain balance team, but this one with a psyspam mode with Mega Starmie of all things! I think the Rain boosted, STAB boosted, Huge Power boosted Liquidations had so much power they could dump the rest of the EVs in Special Attack for a strong mixed set. Also, Mega Gengar but without Perish Trap.

32nd place: Jivan Bhana.
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A new take on the classic Italian snow team archetype, this one featuring Mega Blaziken and non mega Baxcalibur. Ice Body + Grassy Terrain + Leftovers gives it 18.7% recovery per turn, almost a fifth of its health at the end of each turn. Not to mention the boosts from both Snow and Aurora Veil.
Very minor nitpick but being the other dude who ran the Mega Starmie team and one of the dudes who contributed to its building, I would not describe that team as balance, it’s very offensive and doesn’t really have a defensive backbone outside of Archaludon.
 
So uh the local I went to yesterday was small. So small that no one showed up lol. They had people the previous week, but not enough to run the tournament with the minimum player count of 4. Admittedly, part of the problem was that a nearby event on the day I went made parking more difficult than normal and possibly kept potential attendees away, but still sucks. At least got some free TCG cards for showing up.

There are multiple potential venues within reasonable driving distance for me to try, but I'm going to stick to this one for a couple weeks and hope we get enough players. It sounds like people do show up and staff mentioned that the Pokémon Go events had consistent regulars, so those players knowing I'm also coming might make a difference.
 
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Aerozard remains as one of the most popular archetypes since its inception, but how can it keep up with all of the Ychu balance structures, and now, japan rain?? Does it intend to dodge them? I keep seeing that the ones that have made deep runs have an almost 50% W/L ratio vs Ychu bal (skimmed through the results, I could be flat out lying), but how?
 
Aerozard remains as one of the most popular archetypes since its inception, but how can it keep up with all of the Ychu balance structures, and now, japan rain?? Does it intend to dodge them? I keep seeing that the ones that have made deep runs have an almost 50% W/L ratio vs Ychu bal (skimmed through the results, I could be flat out lying), but how?
Lying requires intent lol.

I'm not sure how AeroZard comps even deal with Ychu outside of getting up Tailwind with Mega Aero and putting the rat down immediately? It can live King's LO Kowtow on a roll with bulk investment (in Ychu's favor, too), so you need something like Sylveon's Hyper Beam. Not an impossible match-up but it does kind of half hope to not run into Ychu lol.

I feel like VenuZard comps are better positioned than AeroZard (unless you can run both, idk still not good at building) right now thanks to Sleep Powder simplifying things.
 
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