i think ill add my views on who to free on ban list here since i've been quite vocal about in Discord so might as well write it down here
To preface; I do think I am more keen to try out people on our banlist than others because it's a great opportunity to try and improve our metagame the best we can. A lot of the Pokemon in ZUBL can help strengthen our tier so I think testing them out in such a different metagame is a good way to push our tier in a more healthy and diverse direction.
Most likely to free: :floatzel: :charizard: :porygon2:
:floatzel:
I think Floatzel in this metagame would be healthy. We have good physical Water-resists now, mainly Amoonguss and Qwilfish dropping alongside and some nice immunities with Lanturn and Toxicroak existing. I like Aqua Jet priority and it's nice to get more fast offensive guys, since Pyroar is probably dead in a ditch after this shift
:charizard:
I think it could maybeee be too much but it would be dumb to not let this Pokemon back into the meta to see for ourselves when we got 2 answers that will match up well into it with Snorlax and Lanturn.
:porygon2:
I was someone who wanted to free Porygon2 pre-shifts. I still want it. I think people who are saying this Pokemon wouldn't bring anything to the metagame are painfully out of touch. We got one new special Blanket Check in Snorlax this shift. But, they're not perfect and RestTalk has its flaws. Porygon2 isn't perfect either with reliance on Eviolite, but Recover and its utility over Snorlax is really notable. It would overall strengthen our balance archetypes and give more diversity to them.
And the Do Not Unban arguments so far are:
- Fearmongering the Charge Beam set, which I think is overblown.
- Porygon2 spamming Thunder Wave is pushing the metagame in an unhealthy direction, when we already have many walls who are spreading paralysis like Porygon2 such as Sableye and Discharge Eelektross, and Froslass and got some new ones this shift like Amoonguss, Qwilfish, Discharge on Lanturn, and Snorlax's constant threats of Body Slam paralysis.
- Porygon2 is going to make teams rely more on Hazard Stack and Knock Off. What metagame are we playing that those aren't already the top teams in the meta? They'll always be around, and I'd argue someone like Snorlax's presence does the exact same thing anyway since that is the main way you pressure it, and I have not seen people saying Snorlax is an unhealthy addition to the tier.
I think to me, Porygon2 obviously deserves another shot in the tier based upon those arguments.
More sketchy but I think deserve a shot: :glastrier: :frosmoth: :electrode-hisui:
:glastrier:
I'm not a big advocate for this Pokemon's return. But after reading what Tuthur said in Discord, I do think I'm fine with testing Glastrier out again. I don't like it's set diversity at all, but the point about it being a great glue for Bulky Offense teams before is true and we did technically get some more answers to it dropping as well, mainly Qwilfish.; a Pokemon that gives those benefits and has a chance to potentially be not broken now is appealing. I wouldn't be upset if it didn't get unbanned though because answers still seem flimsy.
:frosmoth:
I'm higher on it then most. I think Defog + U-turn was a wonderful set and compared to someone like Glastrier, Snorlax is a much more relable answer to it then any of Glastriers answers. I don't like seeing people discount the Defog set either saying Quiver Dance is always better. They're two very different sets for one; Quiver Dance is offensive, and Defog is defensive.
Our Defog users at the moment can be quite depressing too. Drifblim got a lot better this shift for sure but is confined to Balance structures, and Swanna can work on Bulky Offense due to it's typing matching up well into hazard setters, but it's stats leave much to be desired. Otherwise, it's just Lurantis who is very niche.
Frosmoth gives one more Defog users who has great properities for Bulky Offense, acting as a pivot and a good check to many special attackers available. It is undeniable this role is something we want in our tier, so if Frosmoth can give us more diversity in this area and improve our hazard control, then I believe it should be considered.
:electrode-hisui:
I think most people are aware of the poor situation our Choice Scarfers are in at the moment. Passimian is by far the best one followed by Toxicroak acting as a more defensive Choice Scarfer on speed tier and Dry Skin. Then it becomes Mesprit, which is alright, Mismagius, who wants to Trick it off really as soon as possible, and maybe some other niche Pokemon like Qwilfish if you're feeling brave.
Electrode-HIsui could be a good addition to our tier to help with this problem we have in builder, as it's natural speed tier makes it function basically as a Scarfer. We gained Amoonguss, who stops any momentum chip in the tier with Regenerator, and Camerupt has a good matchup into Electrode-HIsui as well. Note that Electrode-HIsui is not that strong either, so many special walls can still check it, even if being pivotted on, and it's mainly scary if it can catch you in a Volt Turn loop, as defensively, it's only good into itself.
The reason I feel a little sketch about Electrode-Hisui is that typing is still a pretty scary one to have in this tier, and Specs can try help that power issue. But, I think the drawback of Electrode-Hisui now taking hazards is a very notable one when this Pokemon is famed for how scary its momentum is. I think it deserves a shot but it could turn out to be too much.
No thanks: :alcremie: :bellossom: :emboar: :kingdra: :oricorio: :venomoth:
:alcremie:
Despite Fairy-typing being a bit shit defensively in this metagame, Alcremie is way too scary with Calm Mind + Terastallisation, especially since while Fairy-typing is not good defensively here, it is scary offensively.
:bellossom:
Don't entertain it. Most ZUBL Pokemon offer something unique at least to the tier. Bellossom brings a matchup fish to the tier. It was stupid Tera Hogger that preyed upon Snorlax and many other teams not running ways to deal with it like Encore and such, and if so, won on preview. In return, it was... basically only good into Floatzel. I'm glad its gone, you can argue its not broken, but I argue it's not healthy to have someone like that.
:emboar:
Emboar is cool, but I do think it's too good as a breaker too keep around. Yes, Qwilfish is a good addition to "stop" it, but Emboar has so many ways to hit it that I don't think it matters.
:kingdra:
Yeah no. Set diversity in Dragon Dance or Scope Lens + Agility Sniper. That's already dangerous because its hard to know how to deal with that. But then actual bulk and Dragon-typing here which has a lack of resistances to it? Disgusting
:oricorio:
I was talking about Defog earlier, Oricorio does have that. It is not worth dealing with the tomfoolery that Oricorio does to a tier though. That movepool always makes it pull off frankly stupid cheesy wins that I think the defensive properities it could give is not worth it, especially since while the stats function fine enough offensively, defensively on a bulky team they're not nearly as good.
:venomoth:
Scary guy. Terastallization to get out a bad typing and Tinted Lens for no resistances. Sub + Disable for some cheese too? No thanks.
