This one I have the most thoughts on. I want to insist that Flowery's access to Growth isn't a problem since, at least in my experience, sun teams don't really force Floradinn in to take any chip to put it in range of +2 zen headbutt the way balance teams do, and so a +2 Flowery feels pretty tame in that matchup, and is hardly the most oppressive thing about sun.
I also don't really want to see its speed changed, weirdly. The meta has warped around it in a good way imo, and forcing it to invest less in attack just to maintain booster speed will make it more inconsistent than it really deserves. If we want to target its snowball potential like what motivated the Jarona nerf, I suggest -Bulk Up.
I personally think Flowery's speed stat is a big part of why he feels so constricting in the builder right now. With Booster Speed he's practically impossible to outspeed. There are zero valid Choice Scarfers that can threaten him. It forces offenses to slap on a Floradinn or Aerial Ace Winglade just to not get blown to smithereens (the latter of which can be 2HKOed by Choice Band Close Combat, Floradinn can also be poked by Zen Headbutt so neither of them are entirely safe). I think Life Orb/Choice Band sets under Grassy Terrain are just as stressful to go up against as Bulk Up + Booster Energy sets. Forcing Flowery to drop his Attack a bit to get Blossom Boost Speed would give teams that don't want to tack on a hard wall to Flowery a better fighting chance. After some thinking, I want to try dropping his speed stat to 111, thus requiring him to run 200 Attack EVs max to maintain the speed boost.
As for Growth, I do think it has the potential to be unhealthy. Sun has a lot of tools right now, and I think Growth Flowery is another tool in Sun's lethal toolbox. +2 Zen Headbutt does upwards of 70% to Floradinns, and Gunk Shot is the only Poison move that can OHKO Flowery Back. Between a Gunk Shot miss and the potential flinch chance, it's a pretty terrifying situation for the Floradinn to be in, and that's in pristine conditions assuming that the Floradinn isn't chipped by something like hazards beforehand.
Putting Queen below Jevil is a change I'm kind of ehhh on. Offensive rapid spin jevils are already kind of a demon in the midgame, and neutering Queen's ability to answer him makes scarf sets way worse. I think -Calm Mind and no speed change is a better change since it has less risk of collateral.
I've come to agree on this. Between what you and
Mimik909 said, I think -Calm Mind on Queen is a better change than what I proposed. Though I do think pivot sets have the potential to be part of the problem with Queen. I want to look more into that later, in the meantime I think Queen losing Calm Mind is a healthy change.
Good change, pretty necessary. If you want to nerf Mettaton Y too, nerf its speed so it doesnt create game-dependent speed ties with Gerson or outspeed flowery after one victory dance.
I was thinking of cutting Mettaton Y's Special Attack a bit. I think having a fast attacker in MTT Y is cool, but Fiery Dance under sun coupled with 150 Special Attack just makes him feel a lot like Iron Moth 2. I think dropping his Special Attack to 140 or even something in the high 130s would lower his breaking power by a significant amount.
Don't like this at all. Removing sleep powder gives it so little to do in front of Winglade, pre or post-nerf. I think forcing Floradinn to run sacred sword in this slot (to target gerson and undyne) will make it thud so hard into Winglade that Floradinn will end up being u-turn food that never actually keeps hazards up, inadvertantly buffing Flowery and Gerson. Moreover, I've found sleep to be pretty healthy in this metagame since Floradinn itself lacks pivoting and it becomes very exploitable (in a healthy way) after a sleep sac to mons like Gerson, Undyne, and Queen.
I don't entirely agree on this. I do think the Floradinn vs Winglade matchup is still very well in Floradinn's favor without Sleep Powder. Winglade doesn't want to attack into Floradinn or else it risks accruing nasty amounts of chip through Iron Barbs + a potential Rocky Helmet, and Defog sets would face pressure from Leech Seed if Floradinn chooses to run that after losing Sleep Powder, Winglade cannot Defog forever as Floradinn has more Spikes PP than it has Defog PP. U-Turning into it also accrues even more chip that might make Winglade lose to the Floradinn user's wallbreakers later on.
To me, Floradinn does play a lot like Amoonguss (who I think is a healthy Pokemon in National Dex). Though with access to Sleep Powder and many other excellent options such as Spikes, I think Sleep Powder Floradinn borderlines on being an unhealthy presence due to how uncompetitive Sleep can be at times. I don't think it'd be the end of the world for Floradinn if it were to lose Sleep Powder, as I think access to Spikes alongside Leech Seed and Sacred Sword let it force progress pretty well. If it underperforms I could always give it some sort of buff to compensate, as I really do like Floradinn's role in the meta.
On that note, I'll be including sub 100% accurate sleep moves in a post-tournament poll (so moves outside of things like Yawn and Spore, which I do think are healthy if distributed fairly). I think discussing a ban on those types of moves is reasonable due to how sleep moves as a whole are controversial.
Glyde: -20 attack, +20 Speed
I was considering taking some action on Glyde as well. I think he's currently a pretty polarizing Pokemon in the builder. I like this a lot, as Glyde can get away with running Adamant here to gain similar power to his pre-nerf version. It still lets Choice Band Glyde keep the role of absolutely frying hyper offense teams with Aerilate Extreme Speed while neutering his effectiveness into bulky offenses/balances.
Jackenstein: -Moonlight OR -Substitute
I get that this is his role, to trade with whatever he wants by spamming sub and protect, but I don't think he should be able to set up on absolutely any defensive mon and drain all of their healing moves' pp. He does his job toooo well right now, especially into offense, and he's just straightforwardly too lame for how consistent he is.
The idea behind Jackenstein was to force bulkier teams to play more proactively before the damage kicks in. You are encouraged to swap into a more aggressive Pokemon that can pressure him out before or after his ability activates. Jackenstein also struggles to outpace Regenerator Pokemon such as Ambyu-Lance, its likely that he's always going to lose the stall war against them when his ability goes off. I do agree that he's worth a look though. -Substitute is reasonable, it'd force him to run Leech Seed to keep himself healthy. -Glare could be a reasonable change as it disallows him to fish for paralysis triggers to cheese his way past wallbreakers.
I really do appreciate the reponses from you and
Mimik909! This was really insightful and will help me improve the format. If anyone else wants to voice their opinions on the meta, now's the chance! I do want to try and push a balance patch by early next week in time for round 4.
