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Done adv ludicolo

xzern

xzern

for sure
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[OVERVIEW]
In every Doubles metagame, rain has always been a classic offensive team style for its ability to let you fully control the field and force the opponent to play on your terms. Rain cannot be spoken of without mention of the noble Ludicolo, a premier Swift Swim user that allows the archetype to function at a higher degree. Ludicolo does this with its unique typing, which offensively threatens opposing Water-types such as Suicune and Starmie, is neutral to Grass- and Electric-type attacks from Celebi and Zapdos, and has the ability to defensively answer opposing rain teams. Other offensive Water-types struggle to do all of these things at once; Ludicolo takes some of the strain off a partnered rain sweeper, such as Kingdra, while still similarly benefiting from rain. Additionally, access to the exceedingly rare Fake Out allows for increased playmaking potential and the capacity to more easily use Rain Dance with a rain setter. Even without rain, Ludicolo still finds a place on many teams. It is a surprisingly versatile Pokemon; having Fake Out, speed control with Icy Wind, acceptable special bulk, and an advantageous defensive typing situate Ludicolo as a powerful option for defensive utility and role compression.

[SET]
Rain (Ludicolo) @ Lum Berry / Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam / Protect


[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========
In a double battle, weather attackers that rely on a Speed-boosting ability need to be able to stall for at least one turn if their weather is not already active so that their partner can set it. Where any other Swift Swim or Chlorophyll user would need Protect, Ludicolo has the unique ability to do this with Fake Out, which allows it to be useful as a lead. Rain-boosted Hydro Pump is Ludicolo's main method of outputting offensive pressure and should be used as often as possible. Ice Beam lets Ludicolo beat Salamence in rain and deal damage to Celebi. Protect can be slotted instead of Ice Beam, allowing Ludicolo to preserve itself when rain needs to be set multiple times in a game. This improves Ludicolo's flexibility late-game at the cost of coverage and offensive versatility.

As many teams rely on Thunder Wave for speed control, Lum Berry is the most obvious item option and the one you should first consider. For a more all-in style on a full rain team, consider bluffing Lum Berry to instead run Mystic Water for additional raw damage. When rain is up, Mystic Water allows Ludicolo to consistently OHKO Regirock and bulky variants of Gengar. 88 Speed EVs let Ludicolo outspeed base 130s; particularly Aerodactyl, in rain.

Ludicolo can use Fake Out to enable your Rain Dance user and gain the Speed boost from Swift Swim on the next turn. It works best in a lead or early-game situation due to this unique capability. While rain is up, your goal should be to make offensive plays in the short time that you have. Rain is a time-sensitive strategy, and your gameplan with one or multiple Swift Swim users will be getting the most possible value out of special Water-type STAB moves within the turn constraint. Prioritize Hydro Pump as much as possible in order to make progress against the enemy team and gain momentum, forcing your opponent to react to you and putting them on the back foot. Especially target opposing Pokemon that offensively threaten Ludicolo, such as Tauros and Aerodactyl, making smart use of Ludicolo's doubled Speed in rain.

Team Options
========
Ludicolo is a core component of any rain team. In ADV, rain teams function primarily by manually setting Rain Dance and then puncturing the enemy team with as many rain-boosted Hydro Pumps as you can within its short window. When constructing a rain team, consider one or more of additional Swift Swim users like Kingdra, Gorebyss, and Omastar for your offensive backbone. This core will revolve around overwhelming the opposing team with special attacks; immediately powerful physical attackers such as Tauros and Metagross complement this strategy and answer special walls like Blissey. Ludicolo's presence also prevents Arcanine from comfortably switching in to activate Intimidate, which improves the matchup for these physical attackers.

While almost every Pokemon learns Rain Dance, the best users generally have a strong Thunder, are fast, or both; examples include Zapdos, Gengar, and Raikou. The aforementioned additional Swift Swim users are also decent users of Rain Dance late-game. When paired with Ludicolo on the field, they all benefit from or even require its Fake Out support. Electric-types in particular also appreciate Ludicolo disincentivizing Marowak from switching in. Outside of these examples in particular, any miscellaneous Pokemon can use Rain Dance to increase flexibility for your team late-game.

[SET]
Utility (Ludicolo) @ Lum Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpA
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Icy Wind
- Leech Seed / Ice Beam / Protect
- Hydro Pump

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========
This Ludicolo set offers powerful role compression, allowing you to have Fake Out, a defensive switch-in to Metagross and Water-type attacks, speed control, an Earthquake resistance, and an answer to rain attackers, all in one conveniently pineapple-shaped package. When built defensively, Ludicolo can be very annoying to remove. Fake Out enables the creation of free turns, letting Ludicolo provide space for a switch on the other slot to get a better position or setup with a Dragon Dance or Calm Mind user. Even the very threat of Fake Out on the first turn that you bring out Ludicolo can allow for playmaking.

With its reasonable bulk, Ludicolo is consistently able to fire off Icy Wind; its decently useful speed control weakens faster offensive threats like Zapdos and Raikou. Leech Seed is an option to ensure that Ludicolo is not too passive with this set, providing nice defensive utility by both forcing switches and dealing chip damage. Specifically, Ludicolo is unbothered by Suicune without boosted Ice Beam coverage and uses Leech Seed to put it on a timer or force it out. Additionally, Leech Seed can become a powerful late-game option that allows you to beat teams that no longer have a reliable way to deal meaningful damage to Ludicolo. Alternatively, Ice Beam can be used to prevent Ludicolo from being totally useless against Celebi. Protect is another option to improve Ludicolo's staying power and scout attacks. Seismic Toss is a niche option to deal some chip damage to foes that don't threaten Ludicolo as well as to break Substitutes, and it can be used in lieu of Leech Seed or a main attacking move. It can be useful to put foes in KO range for other members of your team, but keep in mind that it is a relatively passive option.

The recommended EV spread gives Ludicolo enough bulk to survive a Double-Edge from Tauros or two Thunderbolts from Timid Zapdos as well as enough power to OHKO most Marowak variants with Hydro Pump. Alternatively, you can consider having at least 88 Speed EVs to give yourself the option to more effectively take advantage of opposing rain and once again hit the minimum Speed necessary to outrun base 130s in rain. Either way, Ludicolo is an easy target for Thunder Wave, so Lum Berry is preferable. Leftovers is also useful to increase staying power and the potency of Leech Seed.

Team Options
========
This set is defensive, so it is not intended for use on a rain team. Consider this Ludicolo set on teams that are lacking in Water-type resistances or otherwise need to have an answer to rain. Zapdos and Raikou appreciate Ludicolo dissuading Marowak from switching in. Additionally, Fake Out support increases the ease with which they can set up Light Screen and use Calm Mind, respectively. Zapdos especially benefits from speed control in Icy Wind. Regirock, Tyranitar, and Regice are useful with Ludicolo for their ability to threaten opposing Flying-types, and it is useful for them due to its ability to reliably switch into Metagross. Intimidate support from Tauros, Arcanine, Salamence, or Gyarados increases staying power by reducing the potency of immediately powerful physical attacks. The latter two, when using Dragon Dance, become more imposing in tandem with Ludicolo's supporting capability. If you opt for Leftovers, Ludicolo may need some Thunder Wave redirection or paralysis removal in the form of Marowak's Lightning Rod or Heal Bell users.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Checks & Counters
========
**Brute Force**: As Ludicolo typically does not run Protect, using brute force or double targeting it can eliminate it outright or place significant pressure onto its user. The gameplan of weather attackers is quite linear, making this not difficult to do strategically. In particular, powerful physical attackers such as Tauros and Gyarados can survive a Hydro Pump and either trade with or just OHKO it. This principle is also true for the defensive variant.

**Specially Defensive Pokemon**: Against a rain team, using defensive Pokemon to stall rain turns is the most reliable choice. Ludicolo will often be paired with Raikou or Kingdra on the field when rain is up, and specially defensive Pokemon can switch in to prevent the rest of your team from being run over. Celebi, Regice, Registeel, Snorlax, defensive Ludicolo, and Blissey can all do this. Celebi in particular doesn't enjoy being hit by Ice Beam, but it can potentially use Recover to stall out rain turns or set up Calm Mind against a defensive set.

**Flying-types**: When rain is not active or when facing the defensive variant, Salamence and Aerodactyl will outspeed and threaten to OHKO Ludicolo.

**Protect**: Simply stalling out rain on a crucial turn can allow you to claim an advantageous position against Ludicolo's team.

**Thunder Wave**: As Ludicolo's offensive strength comes from Swift Swim, paralysis will permanently hamper its effectiveness after its Lum Berry has been removed.


[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/xzern.226001/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/smudge.550367/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/poli.695963/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/schister.619632/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/ascension-evermore.736762/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/wisteriapurple.664887/
 
Last edited:
Amcheck!

Notes
  • In the Overview Section:
    • Complete lack of emphasis on Ludicolo on non-rain teams, where it is arguably much more useful.
    • Neglect to mention its Earthquake resist, which is where a lot of its utility stems from (switching into Marowak, pivoting around Choice locked mons, etc). This is mentioned further down in its Utility section but I personally think it'll fit in the Overview better as it is relevant for rain teams as well.

  • In the Rain Sweeper Section:
    • In regards to the set, there is no world where Ludicolo drops Fake Out for Protect. The moves fundamentally fill 2 entirely different roles; Fake Out aims to relieve pressure off the Rain setter in the early game so it can actually establish the Rain Dance, whilst Protect aims to preserve itself in the late game so you actually have a sweeper if you can get the Rain Dance off. The framing of the analysis portrays Ludicolo as especially strong in the early game, where not having Fake Out can lead to you never actually getting Rain Dance up and being outpaced the entire game. Protect is absolutely worth a mention but should be a slash on Ice Beam instead, as rain teams typically already have a ton of ways to pressure Celebi and output Ice damage (Ice Beam from Kingdra, Hidden Power Ice from the Electrics, Regice, etc) and STAB Grass damage is extraordinarily valuable.
    • Cut Mystic Water, the calcs it helps against are entirely irrelevant for rain (not even a guarentied OHKO for Gengar) and the payoff being that you fair so much worse into Leads such as Registeel or Blissey that it genuinely isnt worth it.
    • For "Team Options" I'd recommend also mentioning Ludicolo's Hydro Pumps scaring away Arcanine, which both Metagross and Tauros benefit from greatly. For the Rain Setter section, you neglect to mention a lot of very potent Rain Setters such as the Regis, Blissey, Celebi and fellow Rain Sweepers Kingdra and Gorebyss. Also a lot of mons can just tech Rain Dance as a last move to provide rain with a ton of flexibility in the late-game, which pairs excellently with Protect Ludicolo sets. (Btw please don't mention Gengar, it has an extremely underwhelming Thunder and is a mediocre rain setter due to poor matchup into the exact same things that threaten Rain)

  • In the Utility Section:
    • I have a lot of issues with the recommended set. For one, Ludicolo struggles to do its job at all if Paralysed so not giving it a Lum berry is a bit silly. Being paralysed on a crucial Fake Out or Icy Wind turn is genuinely gamelosing and very difficult to play around considering how commital those plays are. Leftovers is solid but I'd mention pairing it with Heal Bell or Marowak support. Next is the ability: I understand the thought proccess behind "Leftovers + Rain Dish makes an unbreakable Special Wall" but as soon as the opponent clocks that it is Rain Dish they can simply switch to their Tauros or Aerodactyl to force the Ludicolo out and let them continue ripping through your team with Hydro Pumps. Like a massive part of the appeal with Ludicolo as a rain counter is its ability to slow down Rain threats while being faster and nuking the the things threatening it back with Hydro Pumps of its own. On top of this is the stat spread, which aims to be somewhat of a Special tank; this is really underwhelming as you are slow, do very little damage and are STILL packed by remotely fast Physical attackers. Your speed stat at the very least needs to hit 219 so you can outspeed the base-100s after an Icy Wind, but you can go all the way up to 235 to outspeed Tauros at -1. The move selection is also veryyyy wonky - Hydro Pump and Fake Out are essentially mandatory and the last 2 are flex slots. These flex slots can be any of Icy Wind/Leech Seed/Ice Beam/Hidden Power Grass/Counter/Mist/Seismic Toss, of which Icy Wind and Hidden Power Grass should be emphasised. I think a better set example for your Utility section to be built around would be this: Just an example, feel free to tinker with it (And invest some of the Speed into bulk if not Icy Wind)
(Utility) Ludicolo @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Fake Out
- Icy Wind/Leech Seed/Ice Beam/Mist
- Hidden Power [Grass]/Seismic Toss/Counter
  • Moving onto the Set Description itself, Leech Seed isn't what makes Ludicolo impassive, its massive STAB Hydro Pumps are.
  • The tail end of it is focusing on the 'cheesy' wincondition you are trying to paint a picture of. This should be entirely reworked and should include explanations of alternative move choices imo.
  • In the "Team Options" segment, there is a complete lack of emphasis on the sheer amount of role compression its typing provides and the things it can check, notably missing Ludicolo's excellent matchup into Metagross and which partners it can support because of said matchup, for example. You should also probably mention how Fake Out greatly pressures the Choice Band abusers in the tier and can force them out, buying more time for them to set up successfully. Mention mons that allow you to beat the things you struggle against
  • For the "Checks & Counters" part, I'd recommend mentioning ways your team can actually support Ludicolo so it doesn't lose to the highlighted aspects. An example of this would be like in the Flying Type part, mention how well Hidden Power Ice Zapdos patches up these matchups.

DM me on Discord or ping in the Doubles Discord C&C Channel if you have any questions :blobthumbsup:
 
Last edited:
veryyyy very
@ g p team done
Poli said:
Amcheck!

Notes
  • In the Overview Section:
    • Complete lack of emphasis on Ludicolo on non-rain teams, where it is arguably much more useful.
    • Neglect to mention its Earthquake resist, which is where a lot of its utility stems from (switching into Marowak, pivoting around Choice locked mons, etc). This is mentioned further down in its Utility section but I personally think it'll fit in the Overview better as it is relevant for rain teams as well.

  • In the Rain Sweeper Section:
    • In regards to the set, there is no world where Ludicolo drops Fake Out for Protect. The moves fundamentally fill 2 entirely different roles; Fake Out aims to relieve pressure off the Rain setter in the early game so it can actually establish the Rain Dance, whilst Protect aims to preserve itself in the late game so you actually have a sweeper if you can get the Rain Dance off. The framing of the analysis portrays Ludicolo as especially strong in the early game, where not having Fake Out can lead to you never actually getting Rain Dance up and being outpaced the entire game. Protect is absolutely worth a mention but should be a slash on Ice Beam instead, as rain teams typically already have a ton of ways to pressure Celebi and output Ice damage (Ice Beam from Kingdra, Hidden Power Ice from the Electrics, Regice, etc) and STAB Grass damage is extraordinarily valuable.
    • Cut Mystic Water, the calcs it helps against are entirely irrelevant for rain (not even a guarentied OHKO for Gengar) and the payoff being that you fair so much worse into Leads such as Registeel or Blissey that it genuinely isnt worth it.
    • For "Team Options" I'd recommend also mentioning Ludicolo's Hydro Pumps scaring away Arcanine, which both Metagross and Tauros benefit from greatly. For the Rain Setter section, you neglect to mention a lot of very potent Rain Setters such as the Regis, Blissey, Celebi and fellow Rain Sweepers Kingdra and Gorebyss. Also a lot of mons can just tech Rain Dance as a last move to provide rain with a ton of flexibility in the late-game, which pairs excellently with Protect Ludicolo sets. (Btw please don't mention Gengar, it has an extremely underwhelming Thunder and is a mediocre rain setter due to poor matchup into the exact same things that threaten Rain)

  • In the Utility Section:
    • I have a lot of issues with the recommended set. For one, Ludicolo struggles to do its job at all if Paralysed so not giving it a Lum berry is a bit silly. Being paralysed on a crucial Fake Out or Icy Wind turn is genuinely gamelosing and very difficult to play around considering how commital those plays are. Leftovers is solid but I'd mention pairing it with Heal Bell or Marowak support. Next is the ability: I understand the thought proccess behind "Leftovers + Rain Dish makes an unbreakable Special Wall" but as soon as the opponent clocks that it is Rain Dish they can simply switch to their Tauros or Aerodactyl to force the Ludicolo out and let them continue ripping through your team with Hydro Pumps. Like a massive part of the appeal with Ludicolo as a rain counter is its ability to slow down Rain threats while being faster and nuking the the things threatening it back with Hydro Pumps of its own. On top of this is the stat spread, which aims to be somewhat of a Special tank; this is really underwhelming as you are slow, do very little damage and are STILL packed by remotely fast Physical attackers. Your speed stat at the very least needs to hit 219 so you can outspeed the base-100s after an Icy Wind, but you can go all the way up to 235 to outspeed Tauros at -1. The move selection is also veryyyy wonky - Hydro Pump and Fake Out are essentially mandatory and the last 2 are flex slots. These flex slots can be any of Icy Wind/Leech Seed/Ice Beam/Hidden Power Grass/Counter/Mist/Seismic Toss, of which Icy Wind and Hidden Power Grass should be emphasised. I think a better set example for your Utility section to be built around would be this: Just an example, feel free to tinker with it (And invest some of the Speed into bulk if not Icy Wind)
​
(Utility) Ludicolo @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Fake Out
- Icy Wind/Leech Seed/Ice Beam/Mist
- Hidden Power [Grass]/Seismic Toss/Counter
​
​
  • Moving onto the Set Description itself, Leech Seed isn't what makes Ludicolo impassive, its massive STAB Hydro Pumps are.
  • The tail end of it is focusing on the 'cheesy' wincondition you are trying to paint a picture of. This should be entirely reworked and should include explanations of alternative move choices imo.
  • In the "Team Options" segment, there is a complete lack of emphasis on the sheer amount of role compression its typing provides and the things it can check, notably missing Ludicolo's excellent matchup into Metagross and which partners it can support because of said matchup, for example. You should also probably mention how Fake Out greatly pressures the Choice Band abusers in the tier and can force them out, buying more time for them to set up successfully. Mention mons that allow you to beat the things you struggle against
  • For the "Checks & Counters" part, I'd recommend mentioning ways your team can actually support Ludicolo so it doesn't lose to the highlighted aspects. An example of this would be like in the Flying Type part, mention how well Hidden Power Ice Zapdos patches up these matchups.

DM me on Discord or ping in the Doubles Discord C&C Channel if you have any questions :blobthumbsup:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
 
My only concern is the stated interactions with Celebi and Suicune, while Ludi fairs reasonably into both without either of them having boosts, I think stating that it "completely walls" Suicune is a bit inaccurate given that, at least right now, several of the samples with Suicune have it using Ice Beam, and +2 or even +1 Ice Beam does pretty decent damage. Some caveat or clarification addressing these would be good, especially because Celebi is mentioned in checks and counters which goes against the main body.

Specifically, Ludicolo completely walls Suicune and stalls it out

Special Defense - When against a rain team, defensive Pokemon to stall rain turns is the most reliable choice. Celebi, Regice, or Blissey can all do this. Celebi in particular, with Calm Mind and Recover, turns Ludicolo into setup fodder.

With Schister 's feedback over discord that xzern showed me & Poli 's amcheck, I'm gonna go ahead and stamp this for 2/2 so we can get this moving, just address that issue.
 
add remove comment
Gonna give this a GP 1/2, not taking it off the queue because I want this to have a second look once implemented. No need to tag the bot again once implemented but let me know via Discord if you have any questions.

tag wisteriapurple for the second check

[OVERVIEW]
In every Doubles format metagame, rain has always been a classic offensive team style for its ability to let you fully control the field and force the opponent to play on your terms. Rain cannot be spoken of without mention of the noble Ludicolo (RSC), (AC) a premier Swift Swim user which elevates rain as an archetype, allowing that allows (it's redundant to say that Ludicolo "elevates rain as an archetype" and "allows rain to function at a higher degree," as those are kinda the same thing) it to function at a higher degree. Ludicolo does this with his its unique typing, which specifically improves this style of team by (redundant) offensively threatening threatens opposing Water-types such as Suicune and Starmie, defensively being is neutral to Grass- and Electric-type attacks from Celebi or and Zapdos, and having has the ability to defensively answer opposing rain teams. Other offensive Water-types struggle to do all of these things at once; Ludicolo takes some of the strain off a partnered rain abuser sweeper (if "sweeper" is the wrong term, feel free to change it, but we don't use "abuser" in this context in analyses), such as Kingdra, while still similarly benefitting benefiting from rain. Additionally, access to the exceedingly rare Fake Out allows for increased playmaking potential (might be worth clarifying what "playmaking potential" means or giving some examples) and the capacity to more easily use Rain Dance with a setter (this part is understood already). Even without rain, Ludicolo still finds a place on many teams. He It is a surprisingly versatile Pokemon; having Fake Out, speed control with Icy Wind, acceptable special bulk, and an advantageous defensive typing situate Ludicolo as a powerful option for defensive utility and role compression.


[SET]
Rain (should this maybe be "Rain Sweeper"?) (Ludicolo) @ Lum Berry / Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam / Protect


[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========
In a double battle, weather abusers which attackers (the comment about "rain sweeper" from the Overview applies here too) that rely on a Speed-boosting ability need to be able to stall for at least one turn in the situation that if their weather is not already active (RC) and the so that their partner needs to can set it. Where any other Swift Swim or Chlorophyll user would need Protect, Ludicolo has the unique ability to do this with Fake Out, which allows him it to be useful as a lead. As rain will generally need to be set multiple times in a game, running Fake Out and Protect at the same time is still a fine option. Protect can be slotted instead of Ice Beam to improve Ludicolo's flexibility in later points of the game at the cost of coverage and offensive versatility. Rain-boosted Hydro Pump is Ludicolo's main method of outputting offensive pressure (RC) and should be used as often as possible. Ice Beam is the auxiliary coverage of choice, letting Ludicolo beat Salamence in rain and deal damage to Celebi. Protect can be slotted in instead of Ice Beam, allowing Ludicolo to preserve itself when rain needs to be set multiple times in a game. This improves Ludicolo's flexibility late-game at the cost of coverage and offensive versatility. (moving this here so that Protect is actually mentioned next to Ice Beam instead of next to Fake Out)

As many teams rely on Thunder Wave for speed control, Lum Berry is the most obvious item option and the one you should first consider. For a more all-in style on a full rain team, consider bluffing Lum Berry to instead run Mystic Water for additional raw damage. When rain is up, Mystic Water allows Ludicolo to consistently OHKO Regirock and bulky Gengar. A minimum of 88 Speed investment lets Swift Swim-boosted EVs let Ludicolo reach the gold standard of Speed by outrunning outspeed (fluff) base 130s (RSC), (AC) particularly Aerodactyl, (AC) in rain.

Keep in mind that in ADV, Ludicolo will not benefit from Ludicolo can use Fake Out to enable your Rain Dance setter and gain the Speed boost of Swift Swim on the same next turn that rain is set, and that rain cannot be extended by any means. That being said, before rain is up, use Fake Out to enable your Rain Dance setter (made some deletions due to dex info). Ludicolo works best in a lead or early game early-game (AH) situation due to this unique capability. While rain is up, your goal should be to make offensive plays in the short time that you have. Rain is a time-sensitive strategy, and your gameplan with one or multiple Swift Swim users will be getting the most possible value out of special Water-type STABs STAB moves within the turn constraint. Prioritize Hydro Pump as much as possible in order to make progress against the enemy team and gain momentum, forcing your opponent to react to you and putting them on the back foot. Especially target opposing Pokemon that offensively threaten Ludicolo, such as Tauros and Aerodactyl, making smart use of your doubled Speed in rain.


Team Options
========
Ludicolo is a core component of any rain team. In ADV, rain teams function primarily by manually setting Rain Dance and then puncturing the enemy team with as many rain-boosted Hydro Pumps as you can within its short window. Ludicolo is a core component of any rain team. When constructing a rain team, consider the additional Swift Swim users of Kingdra, Gorebyss, or and Omastar for your offensive backbone. This core consisting of Ludicolo and another one or more of these Swift Swim users (redundant) will revolve around overwhelming the opponent opposing team with special attacks; with this in mind, consider (removed due to fluff + repetition of "consider") immediately powerful physical attackers such as Tauros or and Metagross to complement this strategy and have an answer to special walls like Blissey. Ludicolo's presence also prevents Arcanine from comfortably switching in to use activate (abilities aren't "used" the same way moves are) Intimidate, which improves the matchup for these physical attackers.

Rain in ADV is manual, meaning that it requires the active use of the move Rain Dance. (dex info) While most almost every Pokemon learns Rain Dance, some are particularly good at using it. These Pokemon will the best users generally be those who have a strong Thunder, are simply just fast, or both (RP); (ASC) examples include Zapdos, Gengar, and Raikou respectively. The aforementioned additional Swift Swim users are also decent users of Rain Dance later into the game late-game. When paired with Ludicolo on the field, they all benefit from or even require his its Fake Out support. Electric-types in particular also appreciate Ludicolo disincentivizing a Marowak from switching in. Outside of these examples in particular, any miscellaneous Pokemon can tech use Rain Dance to increase flexibility for your team later in the game late-game.


[SET]
Utility (Ludicolo) @ Lum Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpA
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Leech Seed / Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Protect


[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========
This Ludicolo set offers powerful role compression (RSC), (AC) allowing you to have Fake Out, a defensive switch-in (switch-in to what?), speed control, an Earthquake resist resistance, and an answer to rain attackers, all in one conveniently pineapple-shaped package. When built defensively, Ludicolo can be very annoying to remove. Fake Out is an incredibly powerful move in Doubles, enabling enables the creation of free turns in many situations (fluff) (RP), (AC) With it, letting Ludicolo can provide space for setup with a Dragon Dance or Calm Mind user, or simply use it to easily for a switch on the other slot to get a better position. Even the very threat of Fake Out (RC) on the first turn that you bring out Ludicolo (RC) can allow for playmaking.

With his its reasonable bulk, Ludicolo is consistently able to fire off Icy Wind; its decently useful speed control (RC) affecting the opponent's entire field and weakening weakens faster offensive threats like Zapdos and Raikou (the fact that it's a spread move is dex info). Leech Seed is an option to ensure that Ludicolo is not too passive with this set, providing nice defensive utility by both forcing switches and dealing chip damage. Specifically, Ludicolo is unbothered by a Suicune without boosted Ice Beam coverage (RC) and uses Leech Seed to put it on a timer or force it out. Additionally, as Leech Seed can be used on both opponents in a double battle, it can (dex info) become a powerful late-game option that allows you to checkmate beat teams that no longer have a reliable way to deal meaningful damage to Ludicolo (RSC) this is similar in function to Ferrothorn in XY (cross-Pokemon and cross-metagame comparisons are generally not relevant enough to mention). Seismic Toss is also a niche option to deal some chip damage to opponents foes that don't threaten Ludicolo and as well as to break Substitutes, and it can be used in lieu of Leech Seed or a main attacking move. It can be useful to put opponents foes in KO range for other members of your team, but keep in mind that it is a relatively passive option.

The two paragraphs above need a couple more edits. The set lists 1. Fake Out, 2. Leech Seed / Hydro Pump, 3. Icy Wind, 4. Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Protect. These paragraphs list, in order, Fake Out, Icy Wind, Leech Seed, and Seismic Toss. You need to make sure that every move from the set is mentioned in the paragraphs, and in the same order. So, you need to talk about Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Protect, and you need to mention when to use each of them (and also when to use Leech Seed vs. Hydro Pump). The order of sentences needs to match the importable (with Seismic Toss at the end because it can be used in lieu of any of the other moves except for Fake Out).

This The recommended EV spread gives Ludicolo enough bulk to survive a Tauros's Double Edge Double-Edge from Tauros or two Timid Zapdos Thunderbolts from Timid Zapdos, and as well as enough power to OHKO most Marowak variants with Hydro Pump. Alternatively, you can consider having at least 88 Speed EVs to give yourself the option to more effectively take advantage of opposing rain (maybe mention what benchmarks this hits; you referred to outspeeding base 130s in the first set so maybe it's that, but say it again here because different sets of the same Pokemon should work independently of each other). Either way, Ludicolo is an easy target for Thunder Wave, so Lum Berry is still preferable. Leftovers is also useful to increase staying power and the potency of Leech Seed.


Team Options
========
This set is defensive, so it is not intended for use on a rain team. Consider this Ludicolo set on teams that are lacking in Water-type resists resistances or otherwise need to have an answer to rain. Similarly to the offensive variant (RC) Zapdos and Raikou appreciate Ludicolo dissuading Marowak from switching in. Additionally, Fake Out support increases the ease at with which they can set up Light Screen or and Calm Mind, (AC) respectively. Zapdos especially benefits from speed control in Icy Wind. Regirock, Tyranitar, and Regice are useful with Ludicolo for their ability to threaten opposing Flying-types, and Ludicolo is useful for them for his due to its ability to reliably switch into Metagross. As this set situates Ludicolo as defensive (RC) (repetitive; this has been mentioned already) Intimidate support from Tauros, Arcanine, Salamence, or Gyarados increases staying power by reducing the potency of immediately powerful physical attacks. The latter two, when used with using Dragon Dance, become more imposing in tandem with Ludicolo's supporting capability. If you opt for Leftovers, Ludicolo may necessitate need some Thunder Wave redirection or paralysis removal in the form of Marowak's Lightning Rod or Heal Bell users.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Checks & Counters
========
**Brute Force**: (RH) As Ludicolo typically does not run Protect, sending using brute force or double targeting into its slot it can eliminate it outright or place significant pressure onto its user. The gameplan of weather abusers attackers (see comment about "weather attackers" / "rain sweepers" earlier) is quite linear, making this not difficult to do strategically. In particular, powerful physical attackers such as Tauros or and Gyarados can survive a Hydro Pump and either trade or just OHKO it. This principal principle is also true for the defensive variant.

**Special Defense**: (RH) (did you maybe mean "Specially Defensive Pokemon"?) When Against a rain team, using defensive Pokemon to stall rain turns is the most reliable choice. Ludicolo will often be paired with Raikou or Kingdra on the field when rain is up, and specially defensive Pokemon can switch in to prevent the rest of your team from being run over. Celebi, Regice, Registeel, Snorlax, defensive Ludicolo, or and Blissey can all do this. Celebi in particular doesn't enjoy being hit by Ice Beam, but it can potentially use Recover to stall out rain turns or set up Calm Mind against a defensive set.

**Flying-types**: (RH) When rain is not active or when against facing the defensive variant, Salamence and Aerodactyl will outspeed and threaten to OHKO Ludicolo.

**Protect**: (RH) Simply stalling out rain on a crucial turn can allow you to claim an advantageous position against Ludicolo's team.

**Thunder Wave**: (RH) As Ludicolo's offensive strength comes from Swift Swim, the stronger and more direct speed control method of paralysis will permanently hamper its effectiveness after its Lum Berry has been removed.

Basically, add two asterisks around each section name (this will make it bold on the dex page) and replace the subsequent hyphens with colons.

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/xzern.226001/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/smudge.550367/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/poli.695963/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/schister.619632/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/ascension-evermore.736762/
 
Last edited:
Ascension Evermore said:
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Gonna give this a GP 1/2, not taking it off the queue because I want this to have a second look once implemented. No need to tag the bot again once implemented but let me know via Discord if you have any questions.

tag wisteriapurple for the second check

[OVERVIEW]
In every Doubles format metagame, rain has always been a classic offensive team style for its ability to let you fully control the field and force the opponent to play on your terms. Rain cannot be spoken of without mention of the noble Ludicolo (RSC), (AC) a premier Swift Swim user which elevates rain as an archetype, allowing that allows (it's redundant to say that Ludicolo "elevates rain as an archetype" and "allows rain to function at a higher degree," as those are kinda the same thing) it to function at a higher degree. Ludicolo does this with his its unique typing, which specifically improves this style of team by (redundant) offensively threatening threatens opposing Water-types such as Suicune and Starmie, defensively being is neutral to Grass- and Electric-type attacks from Celebi or and Zapdos, and having has the ability to defensively answer opposing rain teams. Other offensive Water-types struggle to do all of these things at once; Ludicolo takes some of the strain off a partnered rain abuser sweeper (if "sweeper" is the wrong term, feel free to change it, but we don't use "abuser" in this context in analyses), such as Kingdra, while still similarly benefitting benefiting from rain. Additionally, access to the exceedingly rare Fake Out allows for increased playmaking potential (might be worth clarifying what "playmaking potential" means or giving some examples) and the capacity to more easily use Rain Dance with a setter (this part is understood already). Even without rain, Ludicolo still finds a place on many teams. He It is a surprisingly versatile Pokemon; having Fake Out, speed control with Icy Wind, acceptable special bulk, and an advantageous defensive typing situate Ludicolo as a powerful option for defensive utility and role compression.


[SET]
Rain (should this maybe be "Rain Sweeper"?) (Ludicolo) @ Lum Berry / Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam / Protect


[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========
In a double battle, weather abusers which attackers (the comment about "rain sweeper" from the Overview applies here too) that rely on a Speed-boosting ability need to be able to stall for at least one turn in the situation that if their weather is not already active (RC) and the so that their partner needs to can set it. Where any other Swift Swim or Chlorophyll user would need Protect, Ludicolo has the unique ability to do this with Fake Out, which allows him it to be useful as a lead. As rain will generally need to be set multiple times in a game, running Fake Out and Protect at the same time is still a fine option. Protect can be slotted instead of Ice Beam to improve Ludicolo's flexibility in later points of the game at the cost of coverage and offensive versatility. Rain-boosted Hydro Pump is Ludicolo's main method of outputting offensive pressure (RC) and should be used as often as possible. Ice Beam is the auxiliary coverage of choice, letting Ludicolo beat Salamence in rain and deal damage to Celebi. Protect can be slotted in instead of Ice Beam, allowing Ludicolo to preserve itself when rain needs to be set multiple times in a game. This improves Ludicolo's flexibility late-game at the cost of coverage and offensive versatility. (moving this here so that Protect is actually mentioned next to Ice Beam instead of next to Fake Out)

As many teams rely on Thunder Wave for speed control, Lum Berry is the most obvious item option and the one you should first consider. For a more all-in style on a full rain team, consider bluffing Lum Berry to instead run Mystic Water for additional raw damage. When rain is up, Mystic Water allows Ludicolo to consistently OHKO Regirock and bulky Gengar. A minimum of 88 Speed investment lets Swift Swim-boosted EVs let Ludicolo reach the gold standard of Speed by outrunning outspeed (fluff) base 130s (RSC), (AC) particularly Aerodactyl, (AC) in rain.

Keep in mind that in ADV, Ludicolo will not benefit from Ludicolo can use Fake Out to enable your Rain Dance setter and gain the Speed boost of Swift Swim on the same next turn that rain is set, and that rain cannot be extended by any means. That being said, before rain is up, use Fake Out to enable your Rain Dance setter (made some deletions due to dex info). Ludicolo works best in a lead or early game early-game (AH) situation due to this unique capability. While rain is up, your goal should be to make offensive plays in the short time that you have. Rain is a time-sensitive strategy, and your gameplan with one or multiple Swift Swim users will be getting the most possible value out of special Water-type STABs STAB moves within the turn constraint. Prioritize Hydro Pump as much as possible in order to make progress against the enemy team and gain momentum, forcing your opponent to react to you and putting them on the back foot. Especially target opposing Pokemon that offensively threaten Ludicolo, such as Tauros and Aerodactyl, making smart use of your doubled Speed in rain.


Team Options
========
Ludicolo is a core component of any rain team. In ADV, rain teams function primarily by manually setting Rain Dance and then puncturing the enemy team with as many rain-boosted Hydro Pumps as you can within its short window. Ludicolo is a core component of any rain team. When constructing a rain team, consider the additional Swift Swim users of Kingdra, Gorebyss, or and Omastar for your offensive backbone. This core consisting of Ludicolo and another one or more of these Swift Swim users (redundant) will revolve around overwhelming the opponent opposing team with special attacks; with this in mind, consider (removed due to fluff + repetition of "consider") immediately powerful physical attackers such as Tauros or and Metagross to complement this strategy and have an answer to special walls like Blissey. Ludicolo's presence also prevents Arcanine from comfortably switching in to use activate (abilities aren't "used" the same way moves are) Intimidate, which improves the matchup for these physical attackers.

Rain in ADV is manual, meaning that it requires the active use of the move Rain Dance. (dex info) While most almost every Pokemon learns Rain Dance, some are particularly good at using it. These Pokemon will the best users generally be those who have a strong Thunder, are simply just fast, or both (RP); (ASC) examples include Zapdos, Gengar, and Raikou respectively. The aforementioned additional Swift Swim users are also decent users of Rain Dance later into the game late-game. When paired with Ludicolo on the field, they all benefit from or even require his its Fake Out support. Electric-types in particular also appreciate Ludicolo disincentivizing a Marowak from switching in. Outside of these examples in particular, any miscellaneous Pokemon can tech use Rain Dance to increase flexibility for your team later in the game late-game.


[SET]
Utility (Ludicolo) @ Lum Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpA
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Leech Seed / Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Protect


[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========
This Ludicolo set offers powerful role compression (RSC), (AC) allowing you to have Fake Out, a defensive switch-in (switch-in to what?), speed control, an Earthquake resist resistance, and an answer to rain attackers, all in one conveniently pineapple-shaped package. When built defensively, Ludicolo can be very annoying to remove. Fake Out is an incredibly powerful move in Doubles, enabling enables the creation of free turns in many situations (fluff) (RP), (AC) With it, letting Ludicolo can provide space for setup with a Dragon Dance or Calm Mind user, or simply use it to easily for a switch on the other slot to get a better position. Even the very threat of Fake Out (RC) on the first turn that you bring out Ludicolo (RC) can allow for playmaking.

With his its reasonable bulk, Ludicolo is consistently able to fire off Icy Wind; its decently useful speed control (RC) affecting the opponent's entire field and weakening weakens faster offensive threats like Zapdos and Raikou (the fact that it's a spread move is dex info). Leech Seed is an option to ensure that Ludicolo is not too passive with this set, providing nice defensive utility by both forcing switches and dealing chip damage. Specifically, Ludicolo is unbothered by a Suicune without boosted Ice Beam coverage (RC) and uses Leech Seed to put it on a timer or force it out. Additionally, as Leech Seed can be used on both opponents in a double battle, it can (dex info) become a powerful late-game option that allows you to checkmate beat teams that no longer have a reliable way to deal meaningful damage to Ludicolo (RSC) this is similar in function to Ferrothorn in XY (cross-Pokemon and cross-metagame comparisons are generally not relevant enough to mention). Seismic Toss is also a niche option to deal some chip damage to opponents foes that don't threaten Ludicolo and as well as to break Substitutes, and it can be used in lieu of Leech Seed or a main attacking move. It can be useful to put opponents foes in KO range for other members of your team, but keep in mind that it is a relatively passive option.

The two paragraphs above need a couple more edits. The set lists 1. Fake Out, 2. Leech Seed / Hydro Pump, 3. Icy Wind, 4. Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Protect. These paragraphs list, in order, Fake Out, Icy Wind, Leech Seed, and Seismic Toss. You need to make sure that every move from the set is mentioned in the paragraphs, and in the same order. So, you need to talk about Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Protect, and you need to mention when to use each of them (and also when to use Leech Seed vs. Hydro Pump). The order of sentences needs to match the importable (with Seismic Toss at the end because it can be used in lieu of any of the other moves except for Fake Out).

This The recommended EV spread gives Ludicolo enough bulk to survive a Tauros's Double Edge Double-Edge from Tauros or two Timid Zapdos Thunderbolts from Timid Zapdos, and as well as enough power to OHKO most Marowak variants with Hydro Pump. Alternatively, you can consider having at least 88 Speed EVs to give yourself the option to more effectively take advantage of opposing rain (maybe mention what benchmarks this hits; you referred to outspeeding base 130s in the first set so maybe it's that, but say it again here because different sets of the same Pokemon should work independently of each other). Either way, Ludicolo is an easy target for Thunder Wave, so Lum Berry is still preferable. Leftovers is also useful to increase staying power and the potency of Leech Seed.


Team Options
========
This set is defensive, so it is not intended for use on a rain team. Consider this Ludicolo set on teams that are lacking in Water-type resists resistances or otherwise need to have an answer to rain. Similarly to the offensive variant (RC) Zapdos and Raikou appreciate Ludicolo dissuading Marowak from switching in. Additionally, Fake Out support increases the ease at with which they can set up Light Screen or and Calm Mind, (AC) respectively. Zapdos especially benefits from speed control in Icy Wind. Regirock, Tyranitar, and Regice are useful with Ludicolo for their ability to threaten opposing Flying-types, and Ludicolo is useful for them for his due to its ability to reliably switch into Metagross. As this set situates Ludicolo as defensive (RC) (repetitive; this has been mentioned already) Intimidate support from Tauros, Arcanine, Salamence, or Gyarados increases staying power by reducing the potency of immediately powerful physical attacks. The latter two, when used with using Dragon Dance, become more imposing in tandem with Ludicolo's supporting capability. If you opt for Leftovers, Ludicolo may necessitate need some Thunder Wave redirection or paralysis removal in the form of Marowak's Lightning Rod or Heal Bell users.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Checks & Counters
========
**Brute Force**: (RH) As Ludicolo typically does not run Protect, sending using brute force or double targeting into its slot it can eliminate it outright or place significant pressure onto its user. The gameplan of weather abusers attackers (see comment about "weather attackers" / "rain sweepers" earlier) is quite linear, making this not difficult to do strategically. In particular, powerful physical attackers such as Tauros or and Gyarados can survive a Hydro Pump and either trade or just OHKO it. This principal principle is also true for the defensive variant.

**Special Defense**: (RH) (did you maybe mean "Specially Defensive Pokemon"?) When Against a rain team, using defensive Pokemon to stall rain turns is the most reliable choice. Ludicolo will often be paired with Raikou or Kingdra on the field when rain is up, and specially defensive Pokemon can switch in to prevent the rest of your team from being run over. Celebi, Regice, Registeel, Snorlax, defensive Ludicolo, or and Blissey can all do this. Celebi in particular doesn't enjoy being hit by Ice Beam, but it can potentially use Recover to stall out rain turns or set up Calm Mind against a defensive set.

**Flying-types**: (RH) When rain is not active or when against facing the defensive variant, Salamence and Aerodactyl will outspeed and threaten to OHKO Ludicolo.

**Protect**: (RH) Simply stalling out rain on a crucial turn can allow you to claim an advantageous position against Ludicolo's team.

**Thunder Wave**: (RH) As Ludicolo's offensive strength comes from Swift Swim, the stronger and more direct speed control method of paralysis will permanently hamper its effectiveness after its Lum Berry has been removed.

Basically, add two asterisks around each section name (this will make it bold on the dex page) and replace the subsequent hyphens with colons.

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/xzern.226001/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/smudge.550367/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/poli.695963/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/schister.619632/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/ascension-evermore.736762/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...


implemented, thanks. however:
This core consisting of Ludicolo and another one or more of these Swift Swim users (redundant)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
this is the only thing i didnt change from your check. when this context is removed, the new language implies that you can/are meant to use all of these swift swim users all at once. this is not the case; i am conveying to the reader that they should choose 2-3 in total (including ludicolo.)
Additionally, as Leech Seed can be used on both opponents in a double battle, it can (dex info) become a powerful late-game option that allows you to checkmate beat teams that no longer have a reliable way to deal meaningful damage to Ludicolo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
i changed this as you said, but the reason that it becomes a powerful late game option is because you can use it on two opponents at once, which is something that a reader unfamiliar with doubles may not initially realize. this still works with how you have it, but it may require the reader to make the logical connection on their own.
The two paragraphs above need a couple more edits. The set lists 1. Fake Out, 2. Leech Seed / Hydro Pump, 3. Icy Wind, 4. Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Protect. These paragraphs list, in order, Fake Out, Icy Wind, Leech Seed, and Seismic Toss. You need to make sure that every move from the set is mentioned in the paragraphs, and in the same order. So, you need to talk about Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Protect, and you need to mention when to use each of them (and also when to use Leech Seed vs. Hydro Pump). The order of sentences needs to match the importable (with Seismic Toss at the end because it can be used in lieu of any of the other moves except for Fake Out).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
i changed the slashing in the second set and added some brief context to ice beam and protect in order to align with what ur saying. on seismic toss: in the past, it was fine to include one or two niche options in the set description and not in the set, especially if they are difficult to slot. is this no longer the case? if so, i will just remove the information on seismic toss, since we were unsure about including it anyway.
the stronger and more direct speed control method of paralysis will permanently hamper its effectiveness after its Lum Berry has been removed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
i changed this as you said, but my wording is due to the fact that swift swim + rain is a method of speed control (a doubles concept which refers to manipulation of speed on either side), and thunder wave is a competing method of speed control that is more direct and less loose. the way you have it is fine, im just explaining my phrasing.
 
Last edited:
add remove comment
some fairly minor edits but 2/2 GP Team done:ludicolo:
[OVERVIEW]
In every Doubles metagame, rain has always been a classic offensive team style for its ability to let you fully control the field and force the opponent to play on your terms. Rain cannot be spoken of without mention of the noble Ludicolo, a premier Swift Swim user that allows the archetype to function at a higher degree. Ludicolo does this with its unique typing, which offensively threatens opposing Water-types such as Suicune and Starmie, is neutral to Grass- and Electric-type attacks from Celebi and Zapdos, and has the ability to defensively answer opposing rain teams. Other offensive Water-types struggle to do all of these things at once; Ludicolo takes some of the strain off a partnered rain sweeper, such as Kingdra, while still similarly benefiting from rain. Additionally, access to the exceedingly rare Fake Out allows for increased playmaking potential and the capacity to more easily use Rain Dance with a rain setter. Even without rain, Ludicolo still finds a place on many teams. It is a surprisingly versatile Pokemon; having Fake Out, speed control with Icy Wind, acceptable special bulk, and an advantageous defensive typing situate Ludicolo as a powerful option for defensive utility and role compression.

[SET]
Rain (Ludicolo) @ Lum Berry / Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam / Protect


[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========
In a double battle, weather attackers that rely on a Speed-boosting ability need to be able to stall for at least one turn if their weather is not already active so that their partner can set it. Where any other Swift Swim or Chlorophyll user would need Protect, Ludicolo has the unique ability to do this with Fake Out, which allows it to be useful as a lead. Rain-boosted Hydro Pump is Ludicolo's main method of outputting offensive pressure and should be used as often as possible. Ice Beam is the auxiliary coverage of choice, letting lets (filler) Ludicolo beat Salamence in rain and deal damage to Celebi. Protect can be slotted instead of Ice Beam, allowing Ludicolo to preserve itself when rain needs to be set multiple times in a game. This improves Ludicolo's flexibility late-game at the cost of coverage and offensive versatility.

As many teams rely on Thunder Wave for speed control, Lum Berry is the most obvious item option and the one you should first consider. For a more all-in style on a full rain team, consider bluffing Lum Berry to instead run Mystic Water for additional raw damage. When rain is up, Mystic Water allows Ludicolo to consistently OHKO Regirock and bulky variants of Gengar. 88 Speed EVs let Ludicolo outspeed base 130s (RSC), (AC) particularly Aerodactyl, in rain.

Ludicolo can use Fake Out to enable your Rain Dance setter user (Rain Dance is a move you can't set it) and gain the Speed boost of from Swift Swim on the next turn. Ludicolo It works best in a lead or early-game situation due to this unique capability. While rain is up, your goal should be to make offensive plays in the short time that you have. Rain is a time-sensitive strategy, and your gameplan with one or multiple Swift Swim users will be getting the most possible value out of special Water-type STAB moves within the turn constraint. Prioritize Hydro Pump as much as possible in order to make progress against the enemy team and gain momentum, forcing your opponent to react to you and putting them on the back foot. Especially target opposing Pokemon that offensively threaten Ludicolo, such as Tauros and Aerodactyl, making smart use of your Ludicolo's (it's Ludicolo who has the doubled Speed stat) doubled Speed in rain.

Team Options
========
Ludicolo is a core component of any rain team. In ADV, rain teams function primarily by manually setting Rain Dance and then puncturing the enemy team with as many rain-boosted Hydro Pumps as you can within its short window. When constructing a rain team, consider one or more of the additional Swift Swim users like Kingdra, Gorebyss, and Omastar for your offensive backbone. This core will revolve around overwhelming the opposing team with special attacks; immediately powerful physical attackers such as Tauros and Metagross complement this strategy and answer special walls like Blissey. Ludicolo's presence also prevents Arcanine from comfortably switching in to activate Intimidate, which improves the matchup for these physical attackers.

While almost every Pokemon learns Rain Dance, the best users generally have a strong Thunder, are fast, or both; examples include Zapdos, Gengar, and Raikou. The aforementioned additional Swift Swim users are also decent users of Rain Dance late-game. When paired with Ludicolo on the field, they all benefit from or even require its Fake Out support. Electric-types in particular also appreciate Ludicolo disincentivizing Marowak from switching in. Outside of these examples in particular, any miscellaneous Pokemon can use Rain Dance to increase flexibility for your team late-game.

[SET]
Utility (Ludicolo) @ Lum Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpA
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Icy Wind
- Leech Seed / Ice Beam / Protect
- Hydro Pump

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========
This Ludicolo set offers powerful role compression, allowing you to have Fake Out, a defensive switch-in to Metagross and Water-type attacks, speed control, an Earthquake resistance, and an answer to rain attackers, all in one conveniently pineapple-shaped package. When built defensively, Ludicolo can be very annoying to remove. Fake Out enables the creation of free turns, letting Ludicolo provide space for setup with a Dragon Dance or Calm Mind user, or simply for a switch on the other slot to get a better position switch on the other slot to get a better position or setup with a Dragon Dance or Calm Mind user. (reworded this a bit, original phrasing had "...or Calm Mind user, or..." which was pretty awkward) Even the very threat of Fake Out on the first turn that you bring out Ludicolo can allow for playmaking.

With its reasonable bulk, Ludicolo is consistently able to fire off Icy Wind; its decently useful speed control weakens faster offensive threats like Zapdos and Raikou. Leech Seed is an option to ensure that Ludicolo is not too passive with this set, providing nice defensive utility by both forcing switches and dealing chip damage. Specifically, Ludicolo is unbothered by Suicune without boosted Ice Beam coverage and uses Leech Seed to put it on a timer or force it out. Additionally, Leech Seed can become a powerful late-game option that allows you to beat teams that no longer have a reliable way to deal meaningful damage to Ludicolo. Alternatively, Ice Beam can be used to prevent Ludicolo from being totally useless into against Celebi. Protect is another option to improve Ludicolo's staying power and scout attacks. Seismic Toss is a niche option to deal some chip damage to foes that don't threaten Ludicolo as well as to break Substitutes, and it can be used in lieu of Leech Seed or a main attacking move. It can be useful to put foes in KO range for other members of your team, but keep in mind that it is a relatively passive option.

The recommended EV spread gives Ludicolo enough bulk to survive a Double-Edge from Tauros or two Thunderbolts from Timid Zapdos (RC) as well as enough power to OHKO most Marowak variants with Hydro Pump. Alternatively, you can consider having at least 88 Speed EVs to give yourself the option to more effectively take advantage of opposing rain and once again hit the minimum Speed necessary to outrun base 130s in rain. Either way, Ludicolo is an easy target for Thunder Wave, so Lum Berry is preferable. Leftovers is also useful to increase staying power and the potency of Leech Seed.

Team Options
========
This set is defensive, so it is not intended for use on a rain team. Consider this Ludicolo set on teams that are lacking in Water-type resistances or otherwise need to have an answer to rain. Zapdos and Raikou appreciate Ludicolo dissuading Marowak from switching in. Additionally, Fake Out support increases the ease with which they can set up Light Screen and use Calm Mind, respectively. (a Pokemon would not be setting up Calm Mind (the move) itself, it's not a field effect like Light Screen is - hence the addition of "use" here for better clarity) Zapdos especially benefits from speed control in Icy Wind. Regirock, Tyranitar, and Regice are useful with Ludicolo for their ability to threaten opposing Flying-types, and Ludicolo it is useful for them due to its ability to reliably switch into Metagross. Intimidate support from Tauros, Arcanine, Salamence, or Gyarados increases staying power by reducing the potency of immediately powerful physical attacks. The latter two, when using Dragon Dance, become more imposing in tandem with Ludicolo's supporting capability. If you opt for Leftovers, Ludicolo may need some Thunder Wave redirection or paralysis removal in the form of Marowak's Lightning Rod or Heal Bell users.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Checks & Counters
========
**Brute Force**: As Ludicolo typically does not run Protect, using brute force or double targeting it can eliminate it outright or place significant pressure onto its user. The gameplan of weather attackers is quite linear, making this not difficult to do strategically. In particular, powerful physical attackers such as Tauros or and Gyarados can survive a Hydro Pump and either trade with or just OHKO it. This principle is also true for the defensive variant.

**Specially Defensive Pokemon**: Against a rain team, using defensive Pokemon to stall rain turns is the most reliable choice. Ludicolo will often be paired with Raikou or Kingdra on the field when rain is up, and specially defensive Pokemon can switch in to prevent the rest of your team from being run over. Celebi, Regice, Registeel, Snorlax, defensive Ludicolo, and Blissey can all do this. Celebi in particular doesn't enjoy being hit by Ice Beam, but it can potentially use Recover to stall out rain turns or set up Calm Mind against a defensive set.

**Flying-types**: When rain is not active or when facing the defensive variant, Salamence and Aerodactyl will outspeed and threaten to OHKO Ludicolo.

**Protect**: Simply stalling out rain on a crucial turn can allow you to claim an advantageous position against Ludicolo's team.

**Thunder Wave**: As Ludicolo's offensive strength comes from Swift Swim, the speed control of paralysis will permanently hamper its effectiveness after its Lum Berry has been removed. (fyi i saw your comment to ascension regarding this phrase, i think cutting "the speed control of" is preferable but this phrasing is still okay regardless)


[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/xzern.226001/
Quality checked by:
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https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/poli.695963/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/schister.619632/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/ascension-evermore.736762/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/wisteriapurple.664887/
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