Resource Scarlet and Violet RU Indigo Disk Viability Rankings

Mareep said:

My first (real) VR post in over a year, and likely my last one, too.

SV RU has seen some ups and downs the past few years but I think right now it is in a good spot. Offense isn't overbearing, sun is the best weather (and pretty underwhelming for the most part), stall isn't super strong, and balance/bo comps have plenty of directions to go in without sacrificing too many matchups across the board. Overall, good tier worth investing time into if you're into that kinda thing. Anyway, some noms below;

Rise
:pmd/quagsire::pmd/muk-alola: B+ -> A-
Quagsire is one of the most powerful assets to have against so many things in this tier, still reliably keeping demons like Bisharp and Mimikyu in check while seeing some development with Tera Dragon + Covert Cloak to keep Entei and some sun builds from getting out of hand. Really, really good mon worth seeing ~A level viability in what will likely be its last placement for SV.
Likewise, Muk is another stalwart on a lot of team comps that can also stifle a lot of offensive mons while reliably making progress with the classic RestTalk set. The addition of GWeez to the tier makes Muk even better in my opinion as the most reliable grounded Poison defensive piece around. These two are at least around GWeez viability and should share the A- tier with it.

:pmd/flamigo: B -> B+
Gapdos-lite misses out on some Speed benchmarks you would like but I have found both Scarf and Band to be really solid on a lot of builds. Consistently good mon that promotes good balance builds.

:pmd/pawmot::pmd/swampert: B- -> B
I have always been a Pawmot believer and this remains true in the current meta. GWeez does not like to switch into this, Slowbro never has, and a lot of teams just flat out hate the idea of a pretty fast and strong CC spam that can destroy your default Fighting-resist.
Swampert is a fine mon, sees some usage on sun builds (most notably the HisuiHeat stuff) and has always been a good mon to fulfill a lot of roles reliably in one slot. Worth a bump.

:pmd/comfey::pmd/kilowattrel: C+ -> B-
Comfey provides a unique level of immediate anti-bs with Triage, while Kilowattrel is a great pivot that can also do a ton of work vs offensive builds. I like these two a lot and think B- is a fair placement.

:pmd/rotom-heat: C -> B-
Welcome back to the GWeez meta, old friend. Heattom is so damn good in this tier I think B- is the least it should be ranked, the standard bulky NP set just does a lot of work vs a lot of common builds.

Drop
:pmd/bisharp: A+ -> A
Longtime SV RU stalwart Bisharp is certainly still very good in the tier, but it does not share the same level of goodness to me that the rest of A+ does anymore. It feels a lot more Tera reliant than ever before and this meta does not feel like it rewards some of the standard Bisharp builds like it used to, so think a small drop is warranted.

:pmd/mew::pmd/mimikyu: A -> A-
Prior to Mew rising a while back, it was very good. NP sets were strong, the standard lead stuff was fine, and it just always felt a little too fat to play against. Now? Not nearly as big of a fan of it and think NP sets are barely A- viability.
Similarly, Mimikyu is another offensive setup guy that deserves to take a small drop as it continues to struggle in this meta. I think it is still a key figure on HO builds, but that doesn't warrant an A ranking anymore.

:pmd/crawdaunt::pmd/goodra-hisui: A- -> B+
CB Craw my beloved, you just are not there anymore. I don't think this is a GWeez issue but I do feel that I've seen a lot more CB Craw builds flop than shine lately and a large part of it is the Craw itself.
I like Hoodra but it is not nearly A- level of good right now. Specs and more offensively-inclined Knock sets are still fine options to build around but it feels out of place in the A's compared to the rest of the field.

:pmd/gligar::pmd/necrozma: B+ -> B/B-
I said it the other day but Gligar builds just flat out are not good anymore, for the most part. I used to really enjoy it as a solid defensive pivot on faster teams (or, alluded to above, CB Craw teams) but those just aren't as good and Gligar just doesn't really do the job well enough anymore. I nom this guy to B-.
Necrozma is also just not that guy right now, it can still be potent vs some builds but I think it does not categorically belong in a tier with so many great mons and deserves a drop to B with the other "gimmicky" kind of mons that you have to plan around pretty intensely to use well.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse...

mareep you can and should post more. I think you're being too soft on bisharp but i think many people'd like to hear you out more. and your views are well received based on people's reactions
:PMD/exeggutor-alola: ur to c-/c
https://psim.us/r/gen9ru-2704496069
three endures on mimikyu, allowing it to stall kyu out after kyu blocked dragon pulse, other dragons would die immediately.
https://psim.us/r/gen9ru-2704506759
less enduring and more giga draining on diancie so grass stab allows it to have closer exchanges
https://psim.us/r/gen9ru-2703720335
could get off giga drain to ko lurk, scrafty took 50% from dragon pulse(Scrafty has phys def slightly inferior to gweez) and endure.
https://psim.us/r/gen9ru-2704512664
useful information as it shows flamethrower is the 4th move. can also run energy ball instead of giga drain. don't hit me with the it's in the 1200s so it doesn't count miyami used 1200s replays for ludi and flygon.
https://psim.us/r/gen9ru-2704665476
More flame energy endure
and it was on a sun team;meaning it was likely harvest to keep getting the custap berry back. very specific and niche but without a doubt viable due to it's unique combination of giga drain;endure, and dragon pulse(grass/dragon stab is only walled by steels and ribombee;which fell off in usage, even for these it has flamethrower, which combined with the other stabs only mega altaria resists, and megas aren't in gen 9.). Combine this with endure to last longer vs mimikyu? yeah this thing def has a niche that is enough for the ru tier.
speaking of flygon; :PMD/flygon: c+ to b-/b.
come on;dropping it all the way to c+ because of one mon(gweez) is too harsh. still special sets are prominent and threaten gweez's low special defense. physical sets are still nice, and overall just because gweez exists doesn't mean flygon should be c. that'd be like me saying "hey quagsire checks bisharp. bisharp should drop to b+". And quag has recover for reliable recovery, gweez only has pain split for recovery;not that reliable. and despite gweez dropping;3/4 winrate in scl(four games isn't much but gweez didn't stop it that hard).
:PMD/maushold: b+ to a-/a
Forgot to add more details so I will now. Fits on more archetypes than just ho. Sun and balance too. And it’s also quite consistent at its job;no? long story short maus should become an a ranker.
:PMD/terrakion: a- to a
With lycanroc-day ur terrak has reclaimed it's rightful spot as the premier stealth rock setter. personally I think lycanroc shoulda stayed ranked but with lycanroc ur;yeah terrak is gonna be a considered rocks setter again I said this once i'll say it again. that's pretty much all, sorry.
:PMD/forretress: stay c+/maybe rise to b-
yeah the sun hype died down you're fine where you are right now. and it's quite consistent at it's hazard setting roles;no?
:PMD/toxicroak: c to c+/b-
Come on, it's value is integral to rain. good defensive matchups into kleavor, umbreon, crawdaunt, etcetera(yes there are more examples if you want them dm me) so it's not as frail as it looks. krook when it clicks literally anything but eq is cooked. and i've seen sets ditch swords dance close combat and gunk shot in favor of knock off drain punch and poison jab so you don't even need a swords dance. and with it's usage right now it's practically already an ru pokemon. and water moves are common so croak is getting the dry skin proc pretty often. it is suspicious it's checks and counters list is empty on porydex and the list of stats though(same for basc-f, their checks should be listed on porydex/smogon's index of stats. I know for a fact croak has more checks than just Entei and quagsire). sure it really does need tera dark but hey;it's not a+ like weavile is in uu(and let's be real here flexing all these tera options is code for "I need tera")
:PMD/politoed: c+ to b-/b
i've seen rain have lots of tournament success as of late. that's pretty much the only reason i'm nomming it to rise;more success in battles lately. it's not like it's the sun upgrade or anything but I do think c+ is too low for it right now. and croak is mostly seen on rain so i'm nomming politoed to rise with it. croak is on over half of rain teams so not absolutely mandatory;hence why i'm putting toed higher than croak.
:PMD/basculegion: b to b-/c+
Come on;you've got the exact same defensive short comings as your female counterpart. same middling speed;same sophisticated rampardos(implying not just power but the traits aside from power are overstated in value if not detrimental in practice) syndrome;same bad spinblocker syndrome since so many of the spinners threaten you offensively or have knock off. "offensive structures will always have a way to deal with regieleki and tsareena"-okay so you're saying not being able to beat the spinner yourself is still good? specs flip turn on bike implies you got forced out by it;and it's a spinner. sandslash-a is also bad news;it has so much other utilities(setting rocks, knock) than cetitan that i'll get down to later
:gastrodon: a- to b+/b
let's be real here;you're great but also exploitable. heatranator's post(#287, on page 12) sums it up in more detail see that. flabeauf also summed it up earlier in the thread. probably don't even warrant the respect of a pmd sprite gastro is just that overrated. somehow it's being used more;the glaze must be crazy
:PMD/sandslash-alola:-->b :PMD/cetitan: -->b-
Let's be real here. sandslash-a is the one mandatory on snow here. heatranator's post sums it up more but in the one scl game snow won? there was sandslash-a. cetitan is mostly just the belly drum on snow guy(as in;mostly just a strong guy, we don't have much of a shortage in strong guys.) and with snow's valuable turns being wasted even more with b drum coupled with the grit of setting veil? yeah this isn't all.
look here:https://psim.us/r/smogtours-gen9ru-985655
rocks helped here. can cetitan set rocks? no. so while some say it's a non threat and think cetitan is better on snow than sandslash-a;I think it's the other way around aside from the fact sandslash-a is quad weak to mach punch and sun boosted fire moves and ground moves. cetitan has more weaknesses in general(steel helped overall. poison immunity for gengar a-muk and toxtricity, fairy and psychic resist for voir, bug and flying resist for yanmega(has to run tinted lens to get through this, and with how speed is? yeah probably hit by a super effective ice move first), e speed and grass resist for entei, and dragon resist for vern. taking neutral from rock is nice for kleavor and terrak and lycanroc-dusk, taking neutral from other steels? good for bisharp and registeel and hoodra and rachi(which also has psychic stab resisted). yeah sandslash-a is better overall than cetitan.)
rank swap outright? as a dm exchange with heatranator taught me;cetitan isn't a total rampardos/scovillain copy. b drum is easy to get and ice shard is easy pickings
https://psim.us/r/gen9ru-2708388436
https://psim.us/r/gen9ru-2708666361
https://psim.us/r/gen9ru-2708664267
but the replays don't lie. Sandslash has great utility, and due to it's speed tier in snow really can't be replicated by tenta or maus or esp(unless it's scarf esp,) entirely since it has a poison immunity and ice stab.
Please i'm waiting for someone other than me to post here;editing is strenuous.
but i'll do more anyway.
:PMD/weezing-galar: a- to b-
come on guys. pretty passive so it can get exploited by the attackers anyway. Low special defense so it gets blown out the window by any relevant special attacker. even loses to some physical stuff like gallade croak and bish. I swear if someone calls pain split reliable recovery. meanwhile strange steam sets getting stone walled by Entei. it just doesn't beat a lot of stuff that isn't named krookodile/chesnaught right now. and even for krook checks we got loom ches AND torterra
Yeah if gweez isn't even the best at it(number four best krook checks) then gweez doesn't impact krook as much as the hype says it did.Gweez might as well be the most overrated Pokemon in the tier at the moment. it
yeah gweez is kinda mid ngl. no reliable recovery(pain split is not gonna cut it), lots of the attackers in the tier beat it(unless maybe you count maus along with the ones I listed);etc.

Rapidfire birthday noms so I don't forget

-> C+ / B-
If we're talking up and comers, this guy is up there. Finally getting some actual attention with the return of GWeez, Deo-D has been seeing a ton more experimentation. I've seen nonsense like trick scarf, but this thing has a good bag of tricks. Spikes setter that beats GWeez is already a hot commodity, but its an entei check, has night shade for sustained damage, taunt/psynoise, and can if you so desire run setup sets between all of NP/ID/I'm not abbreviating cosmic power. The defensive value is similar to Cresselia, who sits in A ranks atm. It's also good into Cress with Night Shade Psynoise since you have the raw stats to beat it before it beats you. Pressure Taunt also lets you just plain beat suicunes 1v1. Good value mon.

-> A- / A
Quite a big jump I know, but opinion of this guy internally on council has skyrocketed in favor lately. By all accounts, this mon is defensively uncounterable. It hits so fuckin' hard without even needing a boost or anything, and the high-crit rate on like all its clicks combined w flawless coverage is kinda ridiculous. Obviously, we have a lot of nuke mons. Specs Toxt, Specs Yanmega, etc. But what Gallade has over stuff like them is twofold. For one, the SpDef is great. If you elect to run AV, you can softcheck whatever you damn please on the special side. You can just stay in on a Gengar and kill it. It has setup angles with Agility, as well. Spitfire loaded Adamant Encore in SCL, and the way it just, hard dismantled Hacker's team was a sight to behold. This thing is good. Really good.

-> A+
I think both of these are quite reasonable jumps. Empoleon has been the favored steel on a metric ton of builds lately. Almost comfortably the best steel in the tier (no bisharp does not count), and really Registeel is the only one I'd say runs it up for the title. Jirachi is good too, and despite some naysayers Hoodra is still solid, but Empo is in a league of its own. Really don't even have much interesting to say for it I mean its Empoleon.
Gengar though is the result of a search. With Breloom's surge during SCL, people naturally looked for counterplay options. While Tera Dragon Noivern was a popular pick, others on offensive teams sought options that don't force a tera sink. And Pain Split Gengar was in that vaulted group. Now it's worth noting, look at Gengar's usual checks. Don't you notice how high their base HPs are? Alolan Muk, Blissey, Hoodra. Even stuff like Cyclizar is a good battery pack thanks to Regenerator giving you refills. As far as offensive/BO teams go, Gengar is your go-to pick for loom. NP sets ditching poison stab for dazzling gleam tera fairy have also seen good SCL showings.

-> A-
This mon fell off a bit. With Entei being as good as it is as GWeez coming back down, it's more often than not that just about any team will naturally have a good check to this thing. It's SCL showings.. I mean they weren't like, bad idt but it is definitely underwhelming for an A rank pokemon. A- or even B+ if we're feeling spicy is more fitting. Pmuch what Flam said.

-> B-
Time to eat my words a bit, Vaporeon ain't that bad. I used to dog on it a lot, and I'm not that big of a fan even now of ditching scald or flip because of Gardevoir and Loom, but its a solid generalist fat water and its not like Gardevoir is that hard to check riiiight? Haze sets are so fucking passive I'd rather use any other means of checking suicune like seriously. Use something else if its that dire. This guy is C+ rn. C+ is like, Forretress tier rn are we really sayin this mon is that bad?

->C+
-> C-/D
By all accounts, Eleki is like, not THAT bad at being removal of offense/HO. It's a cute mon, and while you accept you are probably just clicking spin and explosion is most matchups, on HO/Offense 1 spin and big damage on a ground for positioning can honestly be pretty effective and worth a slot on a team. Ik it has 2 SCL uses at least, and one was a win. Thing is pretty serviceable and its better than C. Forre meanwhile is a massive oversell at C+ idk how anybody thought that this guy was C+. Dogged by Gweez its just not good, even on shit like sun. Just use Espeon on your sun teams and pass this thing right by.

-> Stay A-
I'm gonn end this one by disagreeing w Flam on this specific one. I think A- hoodra is still fine for a very simple reason. Tera ghost Sap sipper is a 100%, unconditional breloom stonewall. Unless that shit is Technician rock tomb or some shit you are completely unbothered by that thing and that can have crazy value in role compression jobs if your willing to burn tera for it. Beyond that, the same traits for Hoodra still apply.

LBN said:

Just use Espeon on your sun teams and pass this thing right by.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse...

Kleavor approves of this message.

Vapo should be A- it's really really good. Checking all the setup sweepers with Haze + Entei and to a lesser extent rain is super valuable

LBN said:

-> A+
I think both of these are quite reasonable jumps. Empoleon has been the favored steel on a metric ton of builds lately. Almost comfortably the best steel in the tier (no bisharp does not count), and really Registeel is the only one I'd say runs it up for the title. Jirachi is good too, and despite some naysayers Hoodra is still solid, but Empo is in a league of its own. Really don't even have much interesting to say for it I mean its Empoleon.
Gengar though is the result of a search. With Breloom's surge during SCL, people naturally looked for counterplay options. While Tera Dragon Noivern was a popular pick, others on offensive teams sought options that don't force a tera sink. And Pain Split Gengar was in that vaulted group. Now it's worth noting, look at Gengar's usual checks. Don't you notice how high their base HPs are? Alolan Muk, Blissey, Hoodra. Even stuff like Cyclizar is a good battery pack thanks to Regenerator giving you refills. As far as offensive/BO teams go, Gengar is your go-to pick for loom. NP sets ditching poison stab for dazzling gleam tera fairy have also seen good SCL showings.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse...

Empo has roost for reliable recovery. tryna help you out here

LBN said:

-> B-
Time to eat my words a bit, Vaporeon ain't that bad. I used to dog on it a lot, and I'm not that big of a fan even now of ditching scald or flip because of Gardevoir and Loom, but its a solid generalist fat water and its not like Gardevoir is that hard to check riiiight? Haze sets are so fucking passive I'd rather use any other means of checking suicune like seriously. Use something else if its that dire. This guy is C+ rn. C+ is like, Forretress tier rn are we really sayin this mon is that bad?

Click to expand...

Click to collapse...

Yes;an intellectual who realizes the value of vaporeon partially.

LBN said:

->C+

-> C-/D
By all accounts, Eleki is like, not THAT bad at being removal of offense/HO. It's a cute mon, and while you accept you are probably just clicking spin and explosion is most matchups, on HO/Offense 1 spin and big damage on a ground for positioning can honestly be pretty effective and worth a slot on a team. Ik it has 2 SCL uses at least, and one was a win. Thing is pretty serviceable and its better than C. Forre meanwhile is a massive oversell at C+ idk how anybody thought that this guy was C+. Dogged by Gweez its just not good, even on shit like sun. Just use Espeon on your sun teams and pass this thing right by.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse...

i'm All for the regieleki praise. all for it. it's my new favorite Pokemon in fact. Eleki should be b- though:beats a lot of the tier’s ghosts and while mimikyu exists it’s trending downward so the only relevant ghosts Eleki loses to are golurk and palossand. isn't d rank the blacklist?
my sheer shock that Llade beats most ghosts;bro.