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Quality Control Defog Mega Salamence [QC: 1/2]

Player350

Player350

Spottedleaf is the goat.
is a Pre-Contributor
[SET]
name: Offensive Defog
move 1: Double-Edge
move 2: Facade
move 3: Defog
move 4: Roost
item: Salamencite
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 60 HP / 140 Atk / 96 SpD / 212 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Mega Salamence leverages its solid Speed tier, decent bulk backed by Intimidate prior to Mega Evolution, and natural power to compress roles of hazard removal with Defog and being as a decent offensive presence. Compared to more defensive Defoggers such as Ho-Oh and Giratina-O, Mega Salamence can outpace key offensive threats such as Chi-Yu and Yveltal and remove Sticky Web before they can use Taunt, while also being more threatening to Primal Groudon, the most common Stealth Rock user. However, Mega Salamence’s weaknesses to status conditions and Stealth Rock mean its effectiveness diminishes more quickly than its competition’s throughout the game. Additionally, Mega Salamence has a poor matchup into other hazard setters, such as Eternatus and Garganacl.

* Double-Edge is Mega Salamence's strongest STAB option and takes advantage of a lack of Flying-type resists in the tier. It is preferred over Return due to 2HKOing offensive Primal Groudon and OHKOing various frailer Pokemon such as Yveltal and wallbreaker Primal Kyogre after minor chip.

* Facade acts as a secondary recoil-free STAB move that punish status attempts common on bulkier teams, such as Toxic from defensive Primal Groudon and Giratina and burns from Ho-Oh, though Mega Salamence still needs to be wary of Ho-Oh crippling its Speed tier with Thunder Wave on the switch. Additionally, boosted Facade makes Mega Salamence far more efficient at breaking through passive Pokemon such as Dondozo and Alomomola.

* Roost is integral to this set by granting Mega Salamence reliable recovery to repeatedly absorb important attacks, such as Ho-Oh's Brave Bird, Overheat from defensive Primal Groudon, and Dragon Tail from Giratina, throughout the game. It also affords Mega Salamence the ability to heal off predicted Fighting-type attacks from Choice Band Marshadow and Pheromosa. This longevity allows Mega Salamence repeated opportunities to remove hazards with Defog.

* The 212 Speed EVs allow Mega Salamence to outpace Chi-Yu and everything slower, leveraging its Sticky Web immunity to force these Pokemon out or use Defog against them. 140 Attack EVs at an Adamant nature guarantee 2HKOs on Calm Mind Arceus Dark, Defensive Arceus Dark after Stealth Rock, Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh, Arcues, and Arcues Ground with Double Edge. It also OHKO Yveltal with Double Edge after Stealth Rock and a turn of Life Orb recoil. The given Special Defense and HP investment guarantees surviving Hasty Primal Groudon's Eruption in base form, as well as max special attack Primal Groudon's Eruption after Mega Evolution, both after taking Stealth Rock damage. The HP EVs also ensures that Mega Salamence survives Zacian-C's +1 Behemoth Blade after Stealth Rock and +1 Double Edge from Silk Scarf Extreme Killer Arceus from full. The former is especially crucial as it allows Mega Salamence to Defog in front of Zacian-C despite being slower.

* An alternative spread of 252 Atk / 44 Def / 212 Spe maximizes damage, guaranteeing an OHKO on Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock with Double Edge and a 2HKO on Defensive Arceus-Dark with status boosted Facade. However, this forfeits significant bulk, although it still crucially lives Zacian-C's +1 Behemoth Blade after Stealth Rock.

* Defog Mega Salamence fits exclusively on offense teams seeking an offensive Defog user and status absorber. These teams greatly appreciate Mega Salamence's unique ability to outpace and Defog away hazards against Hyper Offense foes like Chi-Yu, Yveltal, and Primal Kyogre who often utilize Taunt or raw OHKO power to prevent Defog attempts. The faster pace of these teams also mitigates Mega Salamence's limited longevity compared to more defensive options like Ho-Oh.

* While Mega Evolution lends Mega Salamence significant amounts of extra bulk speed, it can occasionally be useful to delay mega evolution to preserve Intimidate, which can ease switching in on foes like Primal Groudon repeatedly.

* Mega Salamence serves as an excellent partner for wallbreakers such as Eternatus, Marshadow, and Primal Kyogre due to its ability to remove entry hazards, especially Sticky Webs. Damage from entry hazards, or in Sticky Web's case, the negation of their otherwise impressive speed tier, can leave them unable to properly threaten out defensive Pokemon such as Coil Zygarde and Arceus formes, both of which are common on bulky offense and balance teams and effective deterrents to Mega Salamence's own offense. Primal Kyogre a particularly excellent partner, as defensive sets serve as a valuable secondary status absorber against the likes of Thunder Wave from Ho-Oh and Toxic from Arceus formes. Additionally, defensive Primal Kyogre can also anti-lead Hyper Offense leads like Glimmora, Smeargle, and Mega Diancie. Primal Kygore also matches well into fatter structures that Mega Salamence struggles with.

* Mega Salamence can switch in on and weaken Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh, something late-game setup sweepers such as Zacian-C, Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM, and Calm Mind Arceus-Dark heavily appreciate due to their own inability to immediately break through them. In return, these partners may also take advantage of threats that may attempt to revenge kill Mega Salamence, such as Eternatus, Stealth Rock Ultra Necrozma, and Arceus-Fairy.

* Mega Salamence's lack of coverage may also render it unable to threaten certain offensive presences such as Zacian-C and Necrozma-DM, as well as unable to force out defensive pieces such as Garganacl, which can also set entry hazards in front of it. Other hazard setters aside from Primal Groudon, like Eternatus and Ultra Necrozma, also feature relatively positive matchups. Thus, teammates that can also help maintain momentum against these Pokemon, such as Stealth Rock Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, and Choice Band Pheromosa, are appreciated.

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/player350.676016/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/iride.546157/
Set(s) by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/bumboclaat.523420/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/player350.676016/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/bumboclaat.523420/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/player350.676016/
Grammar checked by:
*insert user here
 
Last edited:
Given that this was posted before it was properly approved per the current protocol of the section, let alone this being for a Pokemon not currently slated for an analysis (we're focusing on S+ to S- rank in the VR at present), this is being shelved for now, but I'll be sure to notify you once it's available so this may be unarchived for proper use by then.
 
1/2 when applied. Pretty sure I'm supposed to get a set credit for the EVs
[SET]
name: Offensive Defog
move 1: Defog
move 2: Double-Edge
move 3: Facade
move 4: Roost
item: Salamencite
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 44 Def / 212 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Mega Salamence leverages its impressive Speed tier, decent bulk backed by Intimidate prior to Mega Evolution, and natural power to serve as a decent offensive presence that also offers useful role compression in the form of Defog. Particularly, compared to more defensive options such as Ho-Oh and Giratina-O, Mega Salamence is able to outpace key offensive threats such as Chi-Yu and Yveltal and remove Sticky Web before they can use Taunt, while also maintaining a positive matchup into Primal Groudon, the most common Stealth Rock user in the tier. However, it should be noted that Mega Salamence is fairly one-dimensional in said role and otherwise struggles with other prominent entry hazard presences such as Arceus-Dark, Eternatus, and Garganacl. The last sentence should be reworded. I wouldn't describe any of these three as prominent entry hazard setters - definitely not Garganacl. It isn't some super splashable set or anything, but one dimensional does undersell it a fair bit.

* Double-Edge is Mega Salamence's strongest STAB option, being preferred over Return due to 2HKOing offensive Primal Groudon and OHKOing Yveltal and wallbreaker Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock damage. The extra power also lets it revenge a lot of mons, especially mid tier breakers such as Lunala, Rayquaza, and Yveltal. Flying resists are uncommon and outside of like... Zygarde and Garganacl most stuff doesn't switch in well.

* Facade acts as a useful secondary STAB that doesn't induce recoil while being beneficial to the defensive role Mega Salamence serves against bulky offense and balance teams, allowing it to absorb Toxic from defensive Primal Groudon and burns from Ho-Oh, though Mega Salamence still needs to be wvary of being hit with Thunder Wave on the switch, which cripples it greatly by negating its Speed tier. It is worth mentioning how useful this is against stall. This bullet can be merged with the DE one.

* Roost is integral to this set by granting Mega Salamence some longevity against important attacks in more extensive matchups, such as Ho-Oh's Brave Bird and Overheat from defensive Primal Groudon. Additionally, it also allows Mega Salamence to serve as a pinch check to Fighting-type attacks from Choice Band Marshadow and Pheromosa. Remove or reword the last sentence since it doesn't really switch into these mons safely at all.

* Maximum Attack investment in conjunction with an Adamant nature allows Mega Salamence to hit as hard as possible, while 212 Speed EVs allow Mega Salamence to outpace Chi-Yu and everything slower, allowing it to leverage its Sticky Web immunity to force these Pokemon out or use Defog against them. The remaining Defense EVs also ensure that Mega Salamence survives Zacian-C's +1 Behemoth Blade after Stealth Rock, negating a potential revenge kill attempt.

* Defog Mega Salamence fits exclusively on offense teams in need of an offensive Defog user status sponge. With its comparative lack of longevity due to its inability to passively healit feels like you may as well just compare it ho-oh instead of vaguely referencing it? or hold Heavy-Duty Boots, Mega Salamence is typically able to only keep hazards off common setters such as Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn for a limited period of time. Primal Groudon is far and away the best setter? This set completely shutting it down is a big benefit and deserves more focus Against Sticky Web and Hazard Stack hyper offense teams, Mega Salamence will often sacrifice itself against common Pokemon such as Chi-Yu, Yveltal, and Primal Kyogre to remove said entry hazards for its teammates. Thus, it appreciates more offensive partners such as? that are able to effectively capitalize on the short-term momentum it provides.

* Wallbreakers such as Eternatus, Marshadow, and Primal Kyogre are prime partners for Mega Salamence due to their debilitating weakness to Sticky Web and entry hazards, which negates their impressive Speed tier and can cut into their longevity, respectively, and make them unable to properly threaten out defensive Pokemon such as Coil Zygarde and Arceus formes, which also serve as effective deterrents to Mega Salamence's own offense and are often featured on bulky offense and balance teams. Primal Kyogre in particular is a notable partner, as defensive sets also serve as a valuable secondary status absorber against the likes of Thunder Wave from Ho-Oh and Toxic from Arceus formes. Additionally, defensive Primal Kyogre also reinforces the hyper offense matchup by being an effective anti-lead Pokemon against the likes of Glimmora, Smeargle, and Mega Diancie, which Mega Salamence cannot clear entry hazards against. Please specify sets on mons if they don't universally apply.

* As Mega Salamence offers some situational but highly effective defensive utility against Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh, late-game setup sweepers such as Zacian-C, Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM, and Calm Mind Arceus-Dark benefit the most from Mega Salamence's ability to switch into and weaken these Pokemon. In return, these partners may also take advantage of certain threats that may attempt to revenge kill Mega Salamence, such as Eternatus, Stealth Rock Ultra Necrozma, and Arceus-Fairy.

* Mega Salamence's lack of coverage may also render it unable to threaten certain offensive presences such as Zacian-C and Mega DiancieDE 2HKOes so it doesn't really switch-in, as well as force out defensive pieces such as Garganacl, which can also set entry hazards in front of it. Thus, teammates that can also help maintain momentum against these Pokemon such as Stealth Rock Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, and Choice Band Pheromosa are appreciated. If you want to focus on shortcomings the Ho-Oh relationship is worth touching on since it is a good initial switch-in, but struggles long term since BB smacks it without an imtimidate drop. The bigger threat from Garganacl is its ability to setup or just be a nuisance with Salt Cure tbh and it is unlikely to be paired with anything else that wants to.

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/iride.546157/
Quality checked by: https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/bumboclaat.523420/
*insert user here
*insert user here
Grammar checked by:
*insert user here
 
QC
I would like to take a look after its been implemented. after which it will be 2/2.
add remove comment highlight
[SET]
name: Offensive Defog
move 1: Double-Edge
move 2: Facade
move 3: Defog
move 4: Roost
item: Salamencite
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 60 HP / 140 Atk / 96 SpD / 212 Spe
Optimized the EVs, which now hit the following defensive benchmarks:
  • +1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Salamence-Mega: 217-256 (62.7 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • +1 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Double-Edge vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Salamence-Mega: 292-345 (84.3 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 SpA Groudon-Primal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 60 HP / 96 SpD Salamence in Harsh Sunshine: 219-258 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 60 HP / 96 SpD Salamence-Mega in Harsh Sunshine: 220-259 (63.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • Switches in on Stealth Rock 4 times
The attack EVs hit the following benchmakrs:
  • 140+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Dark: 222-262 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 140+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Arceus-Dark: 211-249 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • Other offensive calcs: 2HKOs Defensive Pogre, Defensive Ho-oh, Arceus, and Arcues-Ground with Double Edge

[SET COMMENTS]

* Mega Salamence leverages its solid Speed tier, decent bulk backed by Intimidate prior to Mega Evolution, and natural power to serve as a decent offensive presence that also offers useful role compression in the form of Defog. Particularly, compared to more defensive options such as Ho-Oh and Giratina-O, Mega Salamence can outpace key offensive threats such as Chi-Yu and Yveltal and remove Sticky Web before they can use Taunt, while also posing much more of a threat to Primal Groudon, the most common Stealth Rock user in the tier. However, it should be noted that Mega Salamence's weakness to status conditions and Stealth Rock, and poor matchups into other entry hazard setters such as Eternatus and Garganacl means its effectiveness in said roles diminishes far more quickly than said competition throughout a game. The causal relationship between the last item and its inability to effectively keep hazards up long term does not make sense. While yes, these setters have a positive matchup, they are unrelated to to the causal relationship described. Additionally, its worth considering if you want to delve into less specifics here to tighten this bullet since a lot is elaborated in lower bullets, although this is not strictly necessary.

* Double-Edge is Mega Salamence's strongest STAB option and takes advantage of a lack of Flying-type resistant Pokemon on a majority of offense teams. I would not say offensive teams are less likely to have a flying switch in. If anything they are more likely to be slotting Pokemon like Zacian-C. Double Edge just takes advantage of an overall lack of Flying resists in the tier. It just so happens offense teams are frailer and thus dislike switching into Double Edge more. It is preferred over Return due to 2HKOing offensive Primal Groudon and OHKOing various midrange offensive This terminology is very vague and would be completely unknown to newer or more casual players. Pokemon such as Yveltal and wallbreaker Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock damage.

* Facade acts as a useful secondary STAB that doesn't induce recoil while being beneficial to the defensive role Mega Salamence serves against bulky offense and balance teams, allowing it to absorb Toxic from defensive Primal Groudon and Giratina, and burns from Ho-Oh, Since Mega Salamence still dislikes getting its longevity cut, it might be worth rephrasing it slightly to take a stance of "punishing" status, although this is minor. though Mega Salamence still needs to be wary of Ho-Oh crippling its Speed tier with Thunder Wave on the switch, which cripples it greatly by negating its Speed tier. Additionally, the power boost boosted Facade, has in conjunction with its lack of recoil, Clarifies that this is referring to Facade after Mega Salamence has been boosted, which is otherwise somewhat vague. makes Mega Salamence far more efficient at breaking through passive Pokemon such as Dondozo and Alomomola.

* Roost is integral to this set by granting Mega Salamence some longevity against important attacks in more extensive matchups, such as Ho-Oh's Brave Bird, Overheat from defensive Primal Groudon, and Dragon Tail from Giratina. Additionally, it also affords Mega Salamence the ability to heal off Fighting-type attacks from Choice Band Marshadow and Pheromosa, letting it enter against predicted attacks from these Pokemon. Although it's already heavily implied, its probably worth explicity mentioning that it allows Mega Salamence to Defog repeatedly throughout the game.

* Maximum Attack investment in conjunction with an Adamant nature allows Mega Salamence to hit as hard as possible, while 212 Speed EVs allow Mega Salamence to outpace Chi-Yu and everything slower, leveraging its Sticky Web immunity to force these Pokemon out or use Defog against them. You may want to move some of the details from the first bullet here, especially given its worth clarifying the importance of outspeed Taunt users in this bullet. Otherwise, newer players might be a bit befuddled. The remaining Defense EVs ensures that Mega Salamence survives Zacian-C's +1 Behemoth Blade after Stealth Rock, negating a potential revenge kill attempt. You don't actually threaten Zacian-C; its more important that you can Defog in front of Zacian-C rather than simply surviving a hit.

Please update the above paragraph on the EVs spread to reflect the updated EV spread's benchmarks.

* Defog Mega Salamence fits exclusively on offense teams in need of an offensive Defog user and status absorber. While Mega Salamence has a lot of initial flexibility in alternating between these roles, its comparative lack of longevity means it can struggle to effectively perform them over (added a space) time. For example, against Ho-Oh, while Mega Salamence is a good initial switch-in, it struggles to switch into Brave Bird after Mega Evolution repeatedly, whereas Primal Groudon can slowly wear down Mega Salamence with Toxic. Against Sticky Web and Hazard Stack hyper offense teams, Mega Salamence will often sacrifice itself against common Pokemon such as Chi-Yu, Yveltal, and Primal Kyogre to remove said entry hazards for its teammates. I think this should be rephrased a bit. This section makes it almost sound like a negative, but the ability to even get Webs off in the first place without any support consistently while also not being a dead slot into bulky teams is one of its key traits that differentiates itself from its competition. Thus, it most appreciates being paired with other wallbreakers and setup sweepers that are able to effectively capitalize on the short-term momentum it provides. It is worth mentioning that they in turn appreciate the hazard removal, or at least rephrasing to highlight this a bit more clearly.
It is worth mentioning that it is not always a good idea to immediately mega evolve base Salamence. Preserving Intimidate as an ability is useful at times for improving its ability to switch in on physical attacks repeatedly.

* Wallbreakers such as Eternatus, Marshadow, and Primal Kyogre are prime partners for Mega Salamence This may be a bit of nitpick, but despite the logic expressed, the current phrasing of this sentence implies these offensive Pokemon are ones in the support role for Mega Salamence, when the relationship is actually the opposite. due to their debilitating weakness to Sticky Web and entry hazards, which negates their impressive Speed tier and can cut into their longevity, respectively, and make them unable to properly threaten out defensive Pokemon such as Coil Zygarde and Arceus formes, which also serve as effective deterrents to Mega Salamence's own offense and are often featured on bulky offense and balance teams. This is somewhat of a GP thing, but please please break this sentence up. It's a run on and is incredibly convoluted in terms of information conveyed. Primal Kyogre in particular is a notable partner, as defensive sets also serve as a valuable secondary status absorber against the likes of Thunder Wave from Ho-Oh and Toxic from Arceus formes. Additionally, defensive Primal Kyogre also reinforces the hyper offense matchup by being an effective anti-lead Pokemon against the likes of Glimmora, Smeargle, and Mega Diancie, which Mega Salamence cannot clear entry hazards against. Its probably worth mentioning its excellent matchup into fat too.

* As Mega Salamence offers some situational but highly effective defensive utility against Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh, late-game setup sweepers such as Zacian-C, Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM, and Calm Mind Arceus-Dark benefit the most from Mega Salamence's ability to switch into and weaken these Pokemon. In return, these partners may also take advantage of certain threats that may attempt to revenge kill Mega Salamence, such as Eternatus, Stealth Rock Ultra Necrozma, and Arceus-Fairy.

* Mega Salamence's lack of coverage may also render it unable to threaten certain offensive presences such as Zacian-C and Necrozma-DM, as well as unable to force out defensive pieces such as Garganacl, which can also set entry hazards in front of it. Thus, teammates that can also help maintain momentum against these Pokemon, such as Stealth Rock Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, and Choice Band Pheromosa, are appreciated.

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/iride.546157/
Set(s) by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/bumboclaat.523420/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/player350.676016/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/bumboclaat.523420/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/player350.676016/
Grammar checked by:
*insert user here

10/16/2026: QC check has been updated to reflect the newer, optimized EV spread.
 
Last edited:
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