Roaring Moon is being retested in SV OU, which you can see here. This thread will be used as "qualified" discussion per the decision made here.
This means that if you qualified for the Volcarona suspect test here or qualify for this suspect test, you can post here (and/or in the public thread if you wish). If you have any questions, PM me and/or Finchinator. If you post, but do not qualify, your post will be deleted and you will be infracted. Here are some prompting questions to get the ball rolling:
The suspect reasoning, directly from Finchinator's OP, can be found below.
Let's start with some relevant information:
Under current rule, Roaring Moon has since lost access to Tera Blast, a tool it used with the Fairy type to dispatch of potential checks like Zamazenta, Great Tusk, Ting Lu, and others. It used Tera Blast over a quarter of the time prior to being banned and some argue the surge in the bulkier Tera Fairy variants directly led to the second ban of Roaring Moon. Tera Blast being removed will not make Roaring Moon a bad Pokemon, but could it at least compromise it enough to be balanced in OU? That is going to be at the center of this discussion...unlike ancient texts featuring Tera Bug Jaw Lock Roaring Moon.
Complementing the bulkier Dragon Dance sets would be offensive variants of Roaring Moon. They were always great picks in the metagame and posed the biggest immediate threat, but these sets were susceptible to trading against teams with strong priority or exchanging Tera uses to be revenge killed by a Pokemon with a timely defensive Tera. Coverage options like Earthquake and Brick Break or utility options like Taunt and Roost paired nicely with Knock Off and Acrobatics, which is frequently paired with Booster Energy and Tera Flying. Tera Ground, which gives you a stronger Earthquake and a lot of neutral defensive matchups, can be utilized as well. It is also true that people use Choice Scarf Roaring Moon as a revenge killer or Choice Band as a breaker, especially on Sun teams with Protosynthesis. I do not think either of these variants are remotely problematic though, so they are not noteworthy in the context of a retest so much as painting a picture for the full usage profile.
Knowing that a lot of the metagame's outlook has changed over the last year-and-a-half, it already would be fair to retest a Pokemon that only got banned by 6% during the second suspect test. Having a significant move ban impact the profile of Roaring Moon furthers the logic behind retesting it. Despite this, it is true that Roaring Moon has always been controversial and could very well find ways to be broken outside of a Tera Blast metagame. There is a high bar to get something unbanned via retest, which is done on purpose to make voters engage critically with the retest and consider brokenness rather than just being tired of the status quo.
Before we proceed, I want to remind you that the ladder will have Roaring Moon allowed in order to give players the chance to assess it in our metagame. We will have a longer period to participate in the retest, too, which was not the case for the Volcarona retest due to a time-crunch with the World Cup of Pokemon looming. With these ideal conditions in mind, we hope players will take to the ladder to play with and against Roaring Moon while also taking to the forums to share their discoveries.
Over the course of this retest, it is worth noting that no AI bots or external assistance can be used for reqs laddering purposes. We will detect this if you try to circumvent the rule and, speaking personally as Finchinator, you are a loser if you try to do this. We are excited for human players to play the game against each other using strategies based on a metagame with Roaring Moon in it and seeing what the verdict is at the end of the retest. Roaring Moon is a uniquenly devastating offensive force with Dragon Dance, great coverage options, and multiple effective approaches. The metagame did not have enough counterplay for it previously, but is losing Tera Blast enough of a difference maker? We will use this retest to figure that out!
This retest serves as a great opportunity to say something we need to be putting out there more often: I just want to personally say thank you to the hard workers on the Pokemon Showdown side for making everything possible recently and this entire generation. This hobby would not be possible without you!
VIEW VOTER REQS HERE
This means that if you qualified for the Volcarona suspect test here or qualify for this suspect test, you can post here (and/or in the public thread if you wish). If you have any questions, PM me and/or Finchinator. If you post, but do not qualify, your post will be deleted and you will be infracted. Here are some prompting questions to get the ball rolling:
- Do you think Roaring Moon deserves to be unbanned in SV OU? Why or why not?
- Which Roaring Moon sets do you find most effective and which failed to meet your expectations?
- What teams did you build or use with Roaring Moon that you feel can help the discussion?
- Have there been any new developments pertaining to Roaring Moon or finding counterplay to Roaring Moon that you feel are noteworthy?
- If you are undecided, what are your overall thoughts on Roaring Moon the SV OU Pokemon and what are you looking at to reach a conclusion?
- No unhelpful one liners nor uninformed posts.
- No discussion on other potential suspects -- if you wish to discuss another Pokemon, we encourage you to do so in the metagame discussion thread, but this thread is strictly to discuss if Roaring Moon is banworthy or not.
- No discussion on the suspect process -- this includes testing Roaring Moon vs other potential suspects.
- You are required to make respectful posts.
- You are required to read this thread before posting.
- Failure to follow these simple guidelines will result in your post being deleted and infracted without any prior warning.
- Please also take a moment to read over some suggestions from the OU Council and the OU Moderation team for posting in this thread; adhering these will help out our time moderating the thread and present your arguments better and more educated.
- Do not argue because it's your favorite Pokemon. This should be common sense, but please don't do this, because we will delete posts like this.
- You do not need a boatload of experience to have an informed opinion, but please try to minimize the theorymon aspect and use your experiences watching and playing. Playing some on the ladder before posting is plenty if you're concerned about this.
- Do not flame, belittle, or be disrespectful to users in this thread. While not everyone will read this post in its entirety nor will everyone have an informed opinion, please be sure not to be disrespectful. If there's an issue, bring it up to a moderator.
- Do not use the argument of broken checking broken. Should your argument rest on your opinion that banning the Pokemon or mechanic being tested in this suspect test will make a Pokemon or mechanic broken, overpowered, and/or uncompetitive; don't. If something needs to be banned because of the result this suspect, then so be it.
- This thread is not to voice complaints about the suspect process or decisions of the council. While we are more than open to hearing complaints that may arise, this isn't the place for it. I suggest you message the OU Council, PM our Tier Leaders, Finchinator and Ruft, or make a post in Senior Staff requests, should you have a badge.
The suspect reasoning, directly from Finchinator's OP, can be found below.
Let's start with some relevant information:
- Following a suspect test, Tera Blast was banned from SV OU on April 26th with a 61% supermajority.
- Unanimously, we decided to drop Regieleki back to OU without the need for a retest.
- Council voted to retest (rather than outright unban or keep Uber) both Volcarona and Roaring Moon.
- Keeping in-line with that vote, we then determined Volcarona had more support for a retest.
- After the Volcarona retest, where Volcarona remained Uber, we needed to find time for Roaring Moon.
- In recent discussions, we decided now was the optimal time for a Roaring Moon retest.
Under current rule, Roaring Moon has since lost access to Tera Blast, a tool it used with the Fairy type to dispatch of potential checks like Zamazenta, Great Tusk, Ting Lu, and others. It used Tera Blast over a quarter of the time prior to being banned and some argue the surge in the bulkier Tera Fairy variants directly led to the second ban of Roaring Moon. Tera Blast being removed will not make Roaring Moon a bad Pokemon, but could it at least compromise it enough to be balanced in OU? That is going to be at the center of this discussion...unlike ancient texts featuring Tera Bug Jaw Lock Roaring Moon.
Complementing the bulkier Dragon Dance sets would be offensive variants of Roaring Moon. They were always great picks in the metagame and posed the biggest immediate threat, but these sets were susceptible to trading against teams with strong priority or exchanging Tera uses to be revenge killed by a Pokemon with a timely defensive Tera. Coverage options like Earthquake and Brick Break or utility options like Taunt and Roost paired nicely with Knock Off and Acrobatics, which is frequently paired with Booster Energy and Tera Flying. Tera Ground, which gives you a stronger Earthquake and a lot of neutral defensive matchups, can be utilized as well. It is also true that people use Choice Scarf Roaring Moon as a revenge killer or Choice Band as a breaker, especially on Sun teams with Protosynthesis. I do not think either of these variants are remotely problematic though, so they are not noteworthy in the context of a retest so much as painting a picture for the full usage profile.
Knowing that a lot of the metagame's outlook has changed over the last year-and-a-half, it already would be fair to retest a Pokemon that only got banned by 6% during the second suspect test. Having a significant move ban impact the profile of Roaring Moon furthers the logic behind retesting it. Despite this, it is true that Roaring Moon has always been controversial and could very well find ways to be broken outside of a Tera Blast metagame. There is a high bar to get something unbanned via retest, which is done on purpose to make voters engage critically with the retest and consider brokenness rather than just being tired of the status quo.
Before we proceed, I want to remind you that the ladder will have Roaring Moon allowed in order to give players the chance to assess it in our metagame. We will have a longer period to participate in the retest, too, which was not the case for the Volcarona retest due to a time-crunch with the World Cup of Pokemon looming. With these ideal conditions in mind, we hope players will take to the ladder to play with and against Roaring Moon while also taking to the forums to share their discoveries.
Over the course of this retest, it is worth noting that no AI bots or external assistance can be used for reqs laddering purposes. We will detect this if you try to circumvent the rule and, speaking personally as Finchinator, you are a loser if you try to do this. We are excited for human players to play the game against each other using strategies based on a metagame with Roaring Moon in it and seeing what the verdict is at the end of the retest. Roaring Moon is a uniquenly devastating offensive force with Dragon Dance, great coverage options, and multiple effective approaches. The metagame did not have enough counterplay for it previously, but is losing Tera Blast enough of a difference maker? We will use this retest to figure that out!
This retest serves as a great opportunity to say something we need to be putting out there more often: I just want to personally say thank you to the hard workers on the Pokemon Showdown side for making everything possible recently and this entire generation. This hobby would not be possible without you!
VIEW VOTER REQS HERE
