• Follow our Instagram!
  • Curious about what we're currently doing about bots? Check out the latest updates from staff in this thread.

Unpopular opinions

I’d say it’s less laziness, and more like a decently sized dash of hubris.
Their games always sell incredibly well even with the lack of good polishing for the entirety of the Switch era.
Eventually that hubris gave us SV and Nintendo themselves giving apologies.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Nintendo themselves decided to step in and tell Gamefreak something to the effect of “We were willing to look past things because of your sales figures and our history together. But after that last release, we are not doing that again. You guys need to step up and make something that stands with the rest of our catalogue.”

So they decided to delay WiWa (and potentially even ZA as well) until next year in response. Which is 100% for the best, if WiWa ended up being a SV2 in terms of quality I’d genuinely burn my bridges with this franchise. It would come off as the developers just no longer caring, and if they couldn’t why would I?
This is probably closer to that truth but I'm not exactly sure I'd frame it as hubris. I'd say it's that they thought sticking to the 3 year dev cycle was fine, which I think they definitely should've known it didn't by then after SwSh but SwSh at least didn't have a ton of glitches at launch. Maybe expecting to have a polished, feature-complete open world game out in 3 years is hubris? I dunno. To me it was them biting off more than they could chew, which I suppose is a common thing to do when you have hubris of some kind.

I'm not sure Nintendo stepped in and intervened post-SV. Like I said, there isn't a guy upstairs bossing around Game Freak. Pokémon is collectively owned by Game Freak, Creatures Inc., and Nintendo, which all make up TPC. Nintendo doesn't dictate what Game Freak does with the series. It's more likely they and Creatures agreed this wasn't going to work for gen 10. SwSh had a lot of glaring issues and a massive PR nightmare attached to them, but the target audience of those games were never going to know about that and would at most be a little confused about the Wild Area graphics. With SV, the technical issues were apparent to anyone who played them. They most likely did have some kind of meeting where they decided what they were going to do differently moving forward, I'm just not sure what the company dynamics were for it. Nintendo and GF have a very trusting relationship, so my understanding is that they're mostly hands-off with GF, but I can totally see Nintendo being concerned.
 
Last edited:
4 physical moves on a Mon that doesn,t even increase Attack when Megaevolved :smogthink:

On another topic, as much as I despite Hidden Power, without it Mega Manectric might very well be the worst Mega out of all of them. Especially since new (better) Electric Megas appeared. The guy clearly needs some new moves, Snarl is unacceptable as coverage.
I actually managed to place 26th at a local Champions Tourney with Mega Manectric for Halloween local. I paired it up with Archaludon + Pelipper that offered damage control through Volt Switch, Snarl, and Intimidate. Surprisingly, despite Mega Raichu Y overshadowing Mega Manectric, the reason I used Mega Manectric was for its ability to Snarl Raichu in its face to reduce its damage. It helped me win one of my matches against Raichu + Gholdengo.
Rather than going for Ice hitting both, I think it'd be better if Electric had different coverage for its two resistances. It used to have Signal Beam for Grass, I could also see increasing access to Overheat. Probably Water Pulse against Ground? It would work with the Rain side of Electric at least.
Signal Beam was a move that I’m upset they retired. Yes, it was not used a lot in multiplayer, but I think that it was because of HP Ice being superior for coverage. With Dexit, I feel like Signal Beam could had under explored potential as a coverage attack. At the very least, I used it a lot as coverage for the Mareep line in-game, since it was good against Grass.
 
Move Dexit was weird. The removed moves fell into a few categories:
Signature moves without the associated Mon
Weird mechanics with 0 competitive or in-game use except for PokeTubers clowning on low ladder players and which probably were a nightmare of bugs and programming headaches
Moves that are so weak your level 10 mon would be better off with generic Tackle
Actually viable mid-game moves in the 50-90 BP range which are fine before lategame stuff is learnable or as occasional coverage on competitive sets with very specific needs and few options

And that last category still confuses me. Signal Beam. Jump Kick. Hyper Fang. Feint Attack. Etc. Plenty of moves which felt like a 0-cost include and would make the in-game experience smoother. The only argument I can even come up with is that they wanted to force the player to TR hunt, but that's rather conspiratorial.
 
Actually viable mid-game moves in the 50-90 BP range which are fine before lategame stuff is learnable or as occasional coverage on competitive sets with very specific needs and few options

And that last category still confuses me. Signal Beam. Jump Kick. Hyper Fang. Feint Attack. Etc. Plenty of moves which felt like a 0-cost include and would make the in-game experience smoother. The only argument I can even come up with is that they wanted to force the player to TR hunt, but that's rather conspiratorial.
I feel it's a lot less conspiratory and much more boring as an answer.

They wanted to simplify the power progression and just have you go "low BP -> high BP" without the mid-tier alternatives.

Realistically, the only "cost" was the new animations, and they went like "well they're going to have TR/TMs available for them very early and nobody is going to care of those moves when they're loading high BP ones".
Which tecnically speaking, isn't false.

The TR/TM availability wasn't the intended effect but rather the likely cause of the removal of those mid-tier moves.
 
Move Dexit was weird. The removed moves fell into a few categories:
Signature moves without the associated Mon
Weird mechanics with 0 competitive or in-game use except for PokeTubers clowning on low ladder players and which probably were a nightmare of bugs and programming headaches
Moves that are so weak your level 10 mon would be better off with generic Tackle
Actually viable mid-game moves in the 50-90 BP range which are fine before lategame stuff is learnable or as occasional coverage on competitive sets with very specific needs and few options

And that last category still confuses me. Signal Beam. Jump Kick. Hyper Fang. Feint Attack. Etc. Plenty of moves which felt like a 0-cost include and would make the in-game experience smoother. The only argument I can even come up with is that they wanted to force the player to TR hunt, but that's rather conspiratorial.
That last category bugs me the most. So many of those attacks had a lot of use on so many Mons that desperately needed the coverage it brought. Don’t even get me started on Return, Normal types need that extra power without a cost because they can’t hit anything super effectively
 
The Midgame power removal is what convinces me SwSh was essentially "made" around VGC play and access at the time (however successful or floundered), because as noted, the jump to big power so soon is a very endgame or PvP focused design choice that's very much at the main playthrough's expense as a curve.

I genuinely don't even think they considered coverage users as collateral, just dumped moves that barely showed up in VGC due to middling power, typing, or notable users. Jolteon lost Signal Beam as a MG/Singles coverage option because nothing in VGC Doubles cared about the move, so why bother programming it in? Focus on the big flashy moves all the main stars are using.

I don't like this theoretical mindset either for the record, since putting aside the continued importance of the main game to show off and sell people on the Pokemon as characters (important to expose for Merch sales), it stymies VGC by removing those outside chances at someone bringing a cool new tech instead of another high usage utility/beater mon. I have always said the games, be it competitive or casual, benefit more from having options available, whether or not the players engage with them frequently. Competitive balance for dexit is baloney when almost all the same staples or types of them rise to the top post-cullings.
 
Hyper Fang is more the first category than the third. Nothing that learned it is in SwSh. And it was planned to be in BDSP at one point, it has an animation.
same staples or types of them rise to the top post-cullings.
To be fair, it did shake up the types, pre-dexit the only Ghosts who could hack it in the high tiers were Gengar and Eviolite Dusclops (plus Aegislash sometimes, mostly in gen 6, and Chandelure in gen 5 only). Same goes for Psychic really, Alakazam and Mega Medicham were the only non-legendary Psychics in OU in gen 7, and most of the higher tier legendary Psychics were mythicals and thus not allowed in VGC.
 
To be fair, it did shake up the types, pre-dexit the only Ghosts who could hack it in the high tiers were Gengar and Eviolite Dusclops (plus Aegislash sometimes, mostly in gen 6, and Chandelure in gen 5 only). Same goes for Psychic really, Alakazam and Mega Medicham were the only non-legendary Psychics in OU in gen 7, and most of the higher tier legendary Psychics were mythicals and thus not allowed in VGC.
I'm not convinced that's evidence of Dexit helping. Dragapult, Hatterene and Slow*-Galar would have boosted Ghost and Psychic regardless, and honestly I feel like Dragapult isn't enough to compensate for losing Sableye-Mega.
 
I do think Pursuit doubling in power was overkill and it hitting the retreating 'mon for regular damage would had been fine and will die on that hill.

Widespread Double Edge and Body Slam are IMO preferable to the gimmick Return and Frustration pulled, but we had an issue where Gen IV introduced elemental variations of Normal moves, and that's pretty much opposed to conventional RPG criteria: Flare Blitz should be an inferior move to Double Edge, BUT it being able to hit some stuff for Super Effective should compensate. 110 Base Power Flare Blitz/Wood Hammer/Wave Crash/Wild Charge/Brave Bird, 130 Base Power Double Edge, remove the recoil and low accuracy from Take Down and buff it up to 100 BP. (And buff Volt Tackle into a Head Smash variant).

Hell, Slash of all things got that treatment in Champions, being better than its elemental variants.

Signal Beam being gone is dumb and basically somebody understanding it as "Volbeat's signature" rather than a coverage move for Psychics, Waters and Electrics since Platinum. Same with Jump Kick, it had been turned from yet another random Hitmonlee kick move (as most of those were gone) into a coverage move for ungulates and Dodrio, but somebody didn't get the memo of how it was used beyond the first games in a given gen.

EDIT:

Pichu, Cleffa, Igglybuff and Azurill should had never existed, as they evolve into stuff that works very well as unevolved (hell, Azumarill is the earliest 'mon to fully evolve that isn't part of an early game recurrent niche in the entire Dex), AND they pretty much work as propaganda against preevos as a concept.

Happiny, Munchlax and Budew are excellent examples of preevos, and we should get stuff like them for things like Lapras, Duraludon, Scyther...
 
Last edited:
I do think Pursuit doubling in power was overkill and it hitting the retreating 'mon for regular damage would had been fine and will die on that hill.

Widespread Double Edge and Body Slam are IMO preferable to the gimmick Return and Frustration pulled, but we had an issue where Gen IV introduced elemental variations of Normal moves, and that's pretty much opposed to conventional RPG criteria: Flare Blitz should be an inferior move to Double Edge, BUT it being able to hit some stuff for Super Effective should compensate. 110 Base Power Flare Blitz/Wood Hammer/Wave Crash/Wild Charge/Brave Bird, 130 Base Power Double Edge, remove the recoil and low accuracy from Take Down and buff it up to 100 BP. (And buff Volt Tackle into a Head Smash variant).

Hell, Slash of all things got that treatment in Champions, being better than its elemental variants.

Signal Beam being gone is dumb and basically somebody understanding it as "Volbeat's signature" rather than a coverage move for Psychics, Waters and Electrics since Platinum. Same with Jump Kick, it had been turned from yet another random Hitmonlee kick move (as most of those were gone) into a coverage move for ungulates and Dodrio, but somebody didn't get the memo of how it was used beyond the first games in a given gen.

EDIT:

Pichu, Cleffa, Igglybuff and Azurill should had never existed, as they evolve into stuff that works very well as unevolved (hell, Azumarill is the earliest 'mon to fully evolve that isn't part of an early game recurrent niche in the entire Dex), AND they pretty much work as propaganda against preevos as a concept.

Happiny, Munchlax and Budew are excellent examples of preevos, and we should get stuff like them for things like Lapras, Duraludon, Scyther...
Agree completely on those babies not needing to exist. Azurill is such an egregious example of a pointless Pokemon. It’s basically impossible to use it in play-through without either skipping Marill or Azurill because the evolution level to Azumarill is so ridiculously low.

It also doesn’t help a lot of these babies that whenever they’re in the games they tend to be catchable in the exact same location as their evolutions anyway.
 
Agree completely on those babies not needing to exist. Azurill is such an egregious example of a pointless Pokemon. It’s basically impossible to use it in play-through without either skipping Marill or Azurill because the evolution level to Azumarill is so ridiculously low.

It also doesn’t help a lot of these babies that whenever they’re in the games they tend to be catchable in the exact same location as their evolutions anyway.
There’s also Igglybuff which is another egregrious example, with the fact that it only get 60 BST gain upon evolving into Jigglypuff, who BST is at an already low-low 270. The only major stat gain upon evolving into Jigglypuff is HP, with the rest getting a measly 5 each.
 
Oh, and Misty Terrain should be boosting Fairy moves, if only for consistency with the other terrains.
This. Just this.

Misty Terrain has always been one of my pet peeves. Grassy and Psychic terrain have seen solid usage, and even Electric has it's spotlight, but Misty Terrain is almost unplayable. I've seen it on Tapu Fini in Natdex, and that's it.

When I was younger I always thought the reason it didn't boost Fairy type moves was because Tapu Fini was Water-Fairy. All the other Tapus boost their secondary typing, but Rain already handles Water. So, in my eyes, it became a 'oops, we've got to patch it up' fix.
Then I got into the older games, and I realized the terrains existed in Gen 6 as well. Grrr. What's your excuse now, Game Freak?

I know what Misty Surge is meant to do. Dragon Spam was rampant when they designed it. Status blocking would be okay if Misty Surge was given to a half-decent 'mon (Galarian Weezing would rather run Neutralizing Gas). The terrain even has potential, as I've seen a number of Pet Mods workshop fixes around it.

But it would've been so easy just to slap a Fairy-attacking buff onto it. It can't even go to the crazy levels of Expanding Force, because Misty Explosion is a self-KO move. Even boosted Dazzling Gleam can only hit so hard.

Summary: Tapu Fini drew the short straw in Gen 7.
 
After playtesting a prototype for an HGSS Hack I am working on (called Polished Crystal), it made me realize something more clearly when it comes to the topic of grinding...

The grindiness of older games WASN'T from the EXP System or the lack of a modernized EXP Share, or the Elite 4 Level spikes (to an extent), it was always the level scaling of the wild Pokémon.

Example: In Vanilla HGSS, defeating a wild Level 15 Girafarig in Route 43 using your own Pokémon without any boosts, you'd only get 361 experience, while defeating one that's doubled in level (like in my hack) gets you 638 experience. To get from Jasmine's Level Cap in my hack (34) to Pryce's (37), a Pokémon in the Medium experience group would have to defeat 31 Level 15 Girafarigs. However, if the Girafarigs were level 30, the Pokémon would have to defeat 18.

Gens 1-4's System was actually fine, it was how the Pokémon were scaled that actually made the system bad.
 
Last edited:
Oh, and Misty Terrain should be boosting Fairy moves, if only for consistency with the other terrains.
I’m extremely iffy on this, unlike Electric, Grass or, to a lesser extent, Psychic types, Fairy is already an extremely spammable type. Combined with something like Xerneas or the currently relevant Mega Floette who already get a 30% boost to their Fairy type moves just by existing and you’d have an incredibly disgusting and potentially unhealthy Mon.

Personally, I’d rather they add on more abilities that work together with terrain and give Misty the immediately stronger ones.
Like imagine if Misty terrain was the one to get the Swift Swim equivalent that was widely distributed or an ability that boosts the users damage when on Misty terrain. Meanwhile the others would get more defensive ones that boost (special) Defense or protect certain types from stat drops.
Then you’d be able to build a Mons damage around that.

Would give Misty Terrain its own niche as more than just being that one terrain that disrupts everyone via Prankster users, and into its own little archetype.
 
Last edited:
After playtesting a prototype for an HGSS Hack I am working on (called Polished Crystal), it made me realize something more clearly when it comes to the topic of grinding...

The grindiness of older games WASN'T from the EXP System or the lack of a modernized EXP Share, or the Elite 4 Level spikes (to an extent), it was always the level scaling of the wild Pokémon.

Example: In Vanilla HGSS, defeating a wild Level 15 Girafarig in Route 43 using your own Pokémon without any boosts, you'd only get 361 experience, while defeating one that's doubled in level (like in my hack) gets you 638 experience. To get from Jasmine's Level Cap in my hack (34) to Pryce's (37), a Pokémon in the Medium experience group would have to defeat 31 Level 15 Girafarigs. However, if the Girafarigs were level 30, the Pokémon would have to defeat 18.

Gens 1-4's System was actually fine, it was how the Pokémon were scaled that actually made the system bad.
You see, this is another unpopular opinion I have: I don't agree with the common complaints many people have about Johto these days. I used to but examined things further and came to the conclusion that many of the supposed "issues" with the games are either heavily exaggerated or just aren't actual problems. For example, the Pokémon availability. Way over exaggerated just how many Johto Pokémon are kept until Kanto, especially if you're talking about HGSS, which only gatekeep *three* of them, with plenty of trainer battles present for you to catch them up in level anyway. Tama Hero's newest video mostly aligns with my thoughts.

Another unpopular opinion (though it's not entirely an opinion per se, more of a preference) is that you really don't need to grind in Pokémon games in the first place, not for the main story anyway. You certainly can if you want but I've decided to no longer do it in my playthroughs, and I actually prefer it. Even using gen 2 Johto for an example, you can comfortably beat the entire game, including Red, without grinding once. In fact, Red in gen 2 is made to be beaten underleveled.

P.S. Polished Crystal is a rom hack that already exists-is this the same concept but in the gen 4 engine?
 
For example, the Pokémon availability. Way over exaggerated just how many Johto Pokémon are kept until Kanto, especially if you're talking about HGSS, which only gatekeep *three* of them, with plenty of trainer battles present for you to catch them up in level anyway. Tama Hero's newest video mostly aligns with my thoughts.
I checked, and the following Johto Pokémon are Kanto-only in HG/SS: Pichu, Sneasel, Houndour/Houndoom, Porygon2, Elekid (outside of using the Pokéwalker), Blissey and Suicune. That’s eight. I think you must have missed some of them.

I don’t know what issues other people have with the availability of the Johto Pokémon in the Johto games, but for me, the fact that some Johto Pokémon can only be found in Kanto is just a part of the problem. The other big issue is that several of the Johto Pokémon are difficult to find in Johto itself. Some have extremely low encounter rates. Yanma, Snubbull, Qwilfish and Remoraid have a 1-3% chance of appearing outside of Swarms, and Swarms are post-game only in HG/SS. Others that can be found at similar rates are Steelix, Chinchou and Corsola, but there are no Swarms for them (though Chinchou and Corsola can be found at higher rates with the Super Rod in the post-game). Then there are other Pokémon which have somewhat higher rates, but are still rare and only appear in one or a few areas, notably Shuckle, Marill, Murkrow, Misdreavus, Mantine, Skarmory and Smeargle. There’s also Slugma, which is technically available before Kanto, but it requires you to know how to get one in the first place, which is not possible without a guide.

I think it is okay if a region has one or a few Pokémon which are rare or difficult to find, but I think Johto simply has way too many. It is as if Game Freak deliberately made the Johto Pokémon as hard to find as possible, which is a questionable design choice. That might have been acceptable to an extent in G/S/C, but it is really something that should have been fixed in HG/SS.
Another unpopular opinion (though it's not entirely an opinion per se, more of a preference) is that you really don't need to grind in Pokémon games in the first place, not for the main story anyway. You certainly can if you want but I've decided to no longer do it in my playthroughs, and I actually prefer it. Even using gen 2 Johto for an example, you can comfortably beat the entire game, including Red, without grinding once. In fact, Red in gen 2 is made to be beaten underleveled.
I agree that you don’t necessarily need to grind in the games (but it is nice if you are at least given the option to grind). When I replayed Crystal on 3DS VC two years ago, I beat the E4 when my team (6 Pokémon) was in their lower to mid 40s. I didn’t reach level 50 until the end of Kanto, and I beat Red with my team in their mid-50s. That’s not to say it was all easy, but it was definitely possible. When I played HG/SS, my teams were at level 60 or slightly below when I was at the end of Kanto. Which is still far too low after having gone through two whole regions, but I was still able to beat Kanto without grinding. Not that I could have grinded even if I wanted to.

Which gets us to my next point. Even if you don’t need to grind in Johto (or in Pokémon in general), I think the games should at least give you the option to grind if you want to. And this is my personal biggest issue with the Johto games: the lack of good training spots. When I played Crystal two years ago, I noticed how there were no good ways to train once you had gotten to a high enough level, so I basically just gave up training my team. HG/SS has a similar issue. The wild Pokémon in Kanto are far too weak to give any good training, and since you can’t rebattle trainers in any good way, training against them is out of question as well. I know that PokéGear rematches exist, but they are a terrible rematch system since you need to know which trainers can be called for a rematch at specific times. When I completed the Pokédex in HG/SS, I had to make a list of which trainers to rebattle and at which times they were available. It worked, but it was extremely inefficient compared to other training methods, like the VS. Seeker in D/P/P or the Nimbasa Stadiums in Gen 5. I think the PokéGear rematches in HG/SS are nothing but an example of bad game design, they are a bad rematch system and a bad way to train Pokémon in general.
 
I don’t know what issues other people have with the availability of the Johto Pokémon in the Johto games, but for me, the fact that some Johto Pokémon can only be found in Kanto is just a part of the problem. The other big issue is that several of the Johto Pokémon are difficult to find in Johto itself. Some have extremely low encounter rates. Yanma, Snubbull, Qwilfish and Remoraid have a 1-3% chance of appearing outside of Swarms, and Swarms are post-game only in HG/SS. Others that can be found at similar rates are Steelix, Chinchou and Corsola, but there are no Swarms for them (though Chinchou and Corsola can be found at higher rates with the Super Rod in the post-game). Then there are other Pokémon which have somewhat higher rates, but are still rare and only appear in one or a few areas, notably Shuckle, Marill, Murkrow, Misdreavus, Mantine, Skarmory and Smeargle. There’s also Slugma, which is technically available before Kanto, but it requires you to know how to get one in the first place, which is not possible without a guide.
Something else to mention is that some Johto Pokémon are just garbage in GSC in particular and only made usable later via major mechanic changes, modern movepools, and new evolutions. And I don't mean "heavily flawed and suboptimal but still usable," I mean go look at Yanma's movepool in Gen 2 right now. It is an actual travesty, and that's before you even notice the stats. Yanma is admittedly like the bottom of the barrel, but you also have things like Gligar or Heracross who have passable or even good stats but basically no moves, Marill and Azumarill who don't have any stats worth a damn despite being extremely rare and locked behind the second half of the game, or Unown being Unown. (Smeargle's stats are bad but that's obviously a balancing factor for its gimmick, and even if it's not a bad Pokémon per se using it for a causal playthrough is way too much of a hassle.)

Why would you ever want use some Johto Pokémon when they're both harder to find and less flexible than the Kanto mons running around in the open.
 
Last edited:
the reason why the average casual team in johto is almost the same is that theres a small pool of pokemon in johto that
1. feel good to play with
2. arrive either early on or at a good level so that you dont have to grind
3. arent a chore to grab

all pokemon are useable, sure, this is a baby game, but it doesnt stop a lot of johto mons from feeling Bad to use because their stats suck or their moves suck or they come in at lv 15 and your teams at lv 38 already and you dont want to spend all that time just to get it to be on par with your other guys.

i think the unpopular opinion is that while johto is the worst at it, a lot of the older games struggle in some part with late team additions, grinding, bad feel of late pokemon etc. for different reasons. say what you will about the modern games, but even if exp share means your new guy isnt catching up it still allows for a much more fluid and nice feeling experience of trying out new mons, and their distribution and stats have never felt better for casual play
 
I checked, and the following Johto Pokémon are Kanto-only in HG/SS: Pichu, Sneasel, Houndour/Houndoom, Porygon2, Elekid (outside of using the Pokéwalker), Blissey and Suicune. That’s eight. I think you must have missed some of them.
Ah, yes, I forgot Sneasel. That actually was kinda weird since it was in the Ice Path in Crystal and was almost in there in HGSS too per the Teraleak (it was even in the entrance art originally lol). Pokéwalker exclusive still means you can get it pre-E4. You can also get Pichu via the Spiky Eared Pichu event, which you can access via custom DNS or injecting with PkHex if you're on PC. I didn't count Suicune since it's a legendary and most people don't use them on their teams but sure. It's still really not that big of a deal, especially considering that Kanto is meant to be an extension of your playthrough anyway.
I don’t know what issues other people have with the availability of the Johto Pokémon in the Johto games, but for me, the fact that some Johto Pokémon can only be found in Kanto is just a part of the problem. The other big issue is that several of the Johto Pokémon are difficult to find in Johto itself. Some have extremely low encounter rates. Yanma, Snubbull, Qwilfish and Remoraid have a 1-3% chance of appearing outside of Swarms, and Swarms are post-game only in HG/SS. Others that can be found at similar rates are Steelix, Chinchou and Corsola, but there are no Swarms for them (though Chinchou and Corsola can be found at higher rates with the Super Rod in the post-game). Then there are other Pokémon which have somewhat higher rates, but are still rare and only appear in one or a few areas, notably Shuckle, Marill, Murkrow, Misdreavus, Mantine, Skarmory and Smeargle. There’s also Slugma, which is technically available before Kanto, but it requires you to know how to get one in the first place, which is not possible without a guide.

I think it is okay if a region has one or a few Pokémon which are rare or difficult to find, but I think Johto simply has way too many. It is as if Game Freak deliberately made the Johto Pokémon as hard to find as possible, which is a questionable design choice. That might have been acceptable to an extent in G/S/C, but it is really something that should have been fixed in HG/SS.
I don't see an issue with this, it just means you have to put in more time and effort to get Pokémon that are good. Why is that a bad thing? I've actually begun to really like using those mons in my playthroughs. It's also something Satoshi Tajiri himself specifically praises in the Diamond and Pearl MAKE ALL DVD, shouting out Gallade in particular (heh). Though DP go WAY overboard with it. Far worse than anything GSC/HGSS do, though people don't seem to care since Platinum exists. Even with Platinum though, you still need a male Ralts for Gallade/female Snorunt for Froslass, a Dawn Stone, and may need to get Heart Scales to relearn moves for them and Togekiss. Spiritomb is also still hard to get.

Isn't Shuckle a gift Pokémon? Misdreavus is pretty easy to find in Cliff Cave. Murkrow you can get just from starting the Safari Zone habitats, no tiles or real-time waiting required. I've used Skarmory in multiple playthroughs, it makes sense they keep it that late. Black and White keep a lot more Pokémon until the 8th badge and have higher evolution levels for many of them yet I never see people complain about that. I will say I didn't know about Slugma until Chuggaaconroy's recent playthrough but needing a guide for something isn't necessarily a bad thing given how easily accessible they are for most players. It's not even that much extra work. Tama talks about this in her video that I linked but the extra legwork is part of Johto's core design philosophy. It's ok not to like it but you shouldn't expect it to be changed. Though at this point I wouldn't be surprised if GF or god forbid ILCA did another Johto remake that just hands all these Pokémon to you pre-e4 and adds the modern EXP share to "fix the level curve". That's my current worst nightmare.
I agree that you don’t necessarily need to grind in the games (but it is nice if you are at least given the option to grind). When I replayed Crystal on 3DS VC two years ago, I beat the E4 when my team (6 Pokémon) was in their lower to mid 40s. I didn’t reach level 50 until the end of Kanto, and I beat Red with my team in their mid-50s. That’s not to say it was all easy, but it was definitely possible. When I played HG/SS, my teams were at level 60 or slightly below when I was at the end of Kanto. Which is still far too low after having gone through two whole regions, but I was still able to beat Kanto without grinding. Not that I could have grinded even if I wanted to.

Which gets us to my next point. Even if you don’t need to grind in Johto (or in Pokémon in general), I think the games should at least give you the option to grind if you want to. And this is my personal biggest issue with the Johto games: the lack of good training spots. When I played Crystal two years ago, I noticed how there were no good ways to train once you had gotten to a high enough level, so I basically just gave up training my team. HG/SS has a similar issue. The wild Pokémon in Kanto are far too weak to give any good training, and since you can’t rebattle trainers in any good way, training against them is out of question as well. I know that PokéGear rematches exist, but they are a terrible rematch system since you need to know which trainers can be called for a rematch at specific times. When I completed the Pokédex in HG/SS, I had to make a list of which trainers to rebattle and at which times they were available. It worked, but it was extremely inefficient compared to other training methods, like the VS. Seeker in D/P/P or the Nimbasa Stadiums in Gen 5. I think the PokéGear rematches in HG/SS are nothing but an example of bad game design, they are a bad rematch system and a bad way to train Pokémon in general.
I think HGSS has possibly the best trainer rematch feature in the entire series. You can rematch whatever trainers you want practically an infinite amount of times without worrying about the VS Seeker's RNG within the rematch time frame. The rematch calls are a thing in GSC too but it's a lot more annoying, yeah. It's something HGSS addresses though and people pretend they don't fix any problems with the originals. Needing to do it at a specific time is annoying, though if you really want to, you can time travel on your DS or PC if you're emulating. Once again though, the daily and weekly events are a core part of Johto's design philosophy. There are ways to work around it if you don't like that but I think people are either too used to the newer games making all of this way easier and/or they've played too many rom hacks that basically act like Showdown but with an explorable map. Wild for me to say that in the Smogon forums of all places but yeah lol.

All of this goes to another unpopular opinion of mine, and it's that a lot of Pokémon fans seem allergic to engaging with a variety of game mechanics in their playthroughs-whether it's trading, side modes, or using the Daycare for passive EXP. These are all designed to help you with your game yet people see them as a chore more than they do as fun distractions from just doing battles over and over again. Hell I'd even say the frustration with HMs somewhat fits into this camp, though I can't say those were handled perfectly. If they brought HMs back in a newer game they'd be a lot less cumbersome due to portable boxes and on the fly move relearning.
 
I definitely think the original game design for the series did not anticipate grinding. I think they expected you to go through a dungeon/cave/path once, carefully balancing HP/PP/Healing, while fighting NPCs and wilds, and collecting what items you can. You get to a city, heal, enter the gym, win, heal, and leave for the next dungeon. Under that model, repels to let you explore and find more items are valuable, multiple STABs on the same set will let you continue the fight longer, and an Ether is worth it's weight in gold. Even money makes more sense, you're likely NOT fighting every NPC or grabbing every Calcium, so you need to be more careful with when you use that Super Potion.

Now, how that works with adding new mons to your team is pretty poor, but a lot of the early series design decisions make more sense in that light. However, by HGSS it was obvious that's not how people play, and they should have fixed it by then.
 
I definitely think the original game design for the series did not anticipate grinding. I think they expected you to go through a dungeon/cave/path once, carefully balancing HP/PP/Healing, while fighting NPCs and wilds, and collecting what items you can. You get to a city, heal, enter the gym, win, heal, and leave for the next dungeon. Under that model, repels to let you explore and find more items are valuable, multiple STABs on the same set will let you continue the fight longer, and an Ether is worth it's weight in gold. Even money makes more sense, you're likely NOT fighting every NPC or grabbing every Calcium, so you need to be more careful with when you use that Super Potion.

Now, how that works with adding new mons to your team is pretty poor, but a lot of the early series design decisions make more sense in that light. However, by HGSS it was obvious that's not how people play, and they should have fixed it by then.
Gen 4 still very much has the classic Pokémon design philosophy. HGSS make grinding easier than it was in GSC, should you decide to do so. I'm not sure what there was to fix at that point? Do you mean in the context of raising Pokémon for competitive?
 
People are grinding in-game, but also people are willing to leave, heal, and return. Both of those have knock-on effects on money, expected level, how difficult you should make end-of-dungeon fights, etc. The problem with the Johto games in both gens is that they fully do not account for that. Large swarms of weak enemies are no longer a resource drain, since healing is more expected. Instead players get into every fight they can, because the game uses fights to gate access to items/money/rare mons. But doing this allows the player to outlevel everything, extremely slowly, while boring the player to death. These extra levels make the weak enemies even weaker, to the point where they don't even count as a resource drain. And if you add a new mon to your team, it comes in severely underleveled, and the natural response is to grind it higher, which is STILL boring, excessively slow, and also likely over-levels the rest of your team further.

And I don't think it's an easy fix. Per-encounter XP in leveling systems are always extremely delicately balanced. You basically have to rebalance every single fight in the game to account for a different philosophy. We've FINALLY seen this happening with Pokemon in the past few gens, with far fewer random trainer and wild battles, more focus on the big fights, and XP candy to let you set your levels wherever you need. (I don't love XP candy as a solution, but I can see what the goal is).
 
Back
Top