Metagame SV UU Metagame Discussion - The Indigo Disk

HydreigonTheChild · Aug 25, 2026

Elpuchamano said:
I thing Scizor should be banned form uu like UUBL or OU is so broken especially the sword dance + bullet punch and Tera steel combo is ohko almost everything

No? There are many things that stop it like skarmory, rotom-w, mandibuzz, skeledirge, toxapex, talonflame like flat out while more offensive stuff can generallt trade down with it or just make it hard as scizor needs to be like full hp to take down things like thundurus, lokix, donphan, keldeo

Evan the wise · Sep 2, 2026

yo yo yo quick question how is basc-f still ranked? yes I'm the guy from the ru vr. you seen how much more darks there are in this tier than in ru?(especially gren). not even any details whatsoever on her scarf set in uu aside from the set itself, no updates on how she's relevant to the uu metagame

Eeveeto · Sep 8, 2026

Didn,t participate in the Suspect, but fully agree with the outcome. Neither Sun, nor Ninetales (who for me personally is worse than Torkoal) are close to broken. Hopefully Latios (the actual broken) can be dealt with soon.

HydreigonTheChild · Sep 8, 2026

Eeveeto said:
Didn,t participate in the Suspect, but fully agree with the outcome. Neither Sun, nor Ninetales (who for me personally is worse than Torkoal) are close to broken. Hopefully Latios (the actual broken) can be dealt with soon.

There is 0 chance torkoal is any viable, we have seen like ninetales overtaking torkoal in pretty much everywhere. How are u finding torkoal usage? Or what is it doing?

OceanicGamer · Sep 8, 2026

HydreigonTheChild said:
There is 0 chance torkoal is any viable, we have seen like ninetales overtaking torkoal in pretty much everywhere. How are u finding torkoal usage? Or what is it doing?

Django's post covered it quite well, I'll add his points here and ping him if it wants to clarify

"Not too sure what this proves but I found it interesting to play the games with Torkoal instead of Ninetales. I think there are some interesting advantages Torkoal actually has:

Much much better Lokix check
Slow, so it wins weather wars T1
Extra removal which doesn't get used that often but is still nice
Body Press to hit TTar and Heatran as they switch in
Stealth Rock which means you free up more space elsewhere in the team
Tera Ground makes it a viable Tyranitar and Arcanine switch later in the game"

All of Lokix, Tar, Heatran, and Harcanine are horrible horrible matchups for sun teams in general, and Torkoal is infinitely better at answering them than Ninetales. Ninetales is still probably better, but I do agree that Torkoal should be respected as a side option

LilOu · Sep 8, 2026

HydreigonTheChild said:
There is 0 chance torkoal is any viable, we have seen like ninetales overtaking torkoal in pretty much everywhere. How are u finding torkoal usage? Or what is it doing?

also, adding to what oceanic gamer said above me, i got reqs using django's torkoal sun team. i can second everything Django says.

here some battles

- great battle vs celebiiii. torkoal definitely shows its potential tanking hits and making progress instead of just dropping like tales would
- torkoal smokes ttar switchin
- torkoal smokes ttar switchin again
- torkoal sun vs ninetales sun. torkoal tanks 2 boosted slither wing close combats and sets rocks. infinitely more utility than tales
- another torkoal sun vs ninetales sun. low ladder tho
- torkoal sun mirror match

oh, and during my reqs laddering, i fought more torkoals than ninetales.

scald spamm · Sep 9, 2026

As someone who kinda agrees with :torkoal: not being completely ass when compared to ninetales i do have some points to say

I agree that :torkoal: is good in setting up the first sun imo its not really that much good than :ninetales: if u wanna go sun 2nd or 3rd time.
Also having removal on your weather setter mon isnt really a fantastic trait thats more like wasting 3 turns of weather gaming. Not to mention the opponent wont sit idle wheb you are spinning and the :torkoal: will take damage which hurts his role of coming again
Beating tyranitar is a good niche torkoal has but a scenario in my head always make me disagree with that, what if they have the iq of a human and just go some dragon like :latios: well on your lati counter they can just freely go :tyranitar:or even double :tyranitar: and put pressure on your team from then on.
Rocks i will give :torkoal: the point here. Not much of a problem setting up rocks if you really want the chip.
Clicking :Ground: instead of just having a :Tyranitar: counter is just waste of tera i should say. There are better abusers of the gimmick in sun like :Venusaur: :Fire: and :Arcanine_Hisui: :Fire: which just nuke things up.

STFU Bro you havent even played "Torkoal SON im crine" once:

I did, i was trolling ladder with the "torkoal sun bot" on ladder with djangos team and a copy pasted message to make some people think its actually a bot.

sure I was actually playing like a bot in that account because I had to make obvious plays but gotta admit :torkoal: sun is awfully mid which many of the council members were right on suspecting :ninetales:

Negative_emotions916 · Sep 16, 2026

Evan the wise said:
yo yo yo quick question how is basc-f still ranked? yes I'm the guy from the ru vr. you seen how much more darks there are in this tier than in ru?(especially gren). not even any details whatsoever on her scarf set in uu aside from the set itself, no updates on how she's relevant to the uu metagame

Rain cheese isn't thaaaaaat bad, and can somewhat come in on Keldeo in an emergency which is very good at the moment

LilOu · Sep 17, 2026

Negative_emotions916 said:
Rain cheese isn't thaaaaaat bad, and can somewhat come in on Keldeo in an emergency which is very good at the moment

adding to this, i've been testing a rain team with scarf adaptability bascu-F. not only a great keldeo check, but also good into mach punch / espeed / bullet punch priority, which often are problematic for frail barraskweda / floatzel. also, great natural bulk.

Negative_emotions916 · Sep 18, 2026

Cheryl. said:
You do not want Quaq meta back. All of its supposed defensive traits are moot after you realize it will be back to its old Tera-abusing tricks. It was way too good at snowballing back when it was allowed with Aqua Step + defensive Teras to bail it out of its bad matchups, techs like Taunt meant it was very hard to pin down defensively as well. While current meta is still about as HO-infested as Quaq meta was, at this point we need to realize its just a Gen 9 thing and NOT introduce another mon that would unironically buff that playstyle even more than it already is. A good starting point for nerfing HO spam is always to target Screens, very simple playstyle, easy to spam, and naturally has tons of room for techs so its difficult to counter because there's so many mons now that become broken with Screens + Tera.

On God

HydreigonTheChild · Sep 20, 2026

Hmm had some thoughts in my head about the meta cuz its interesting. More like a bunch of shit in my head i feel is worth typing out

Code:

+ ---- + --------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon               | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + --------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Serperior             |   10 |  33.33% |  60.00% |
| 2    | Donphan               |    9 |  30.00% |  66.67% |
| 3    | Keldeo-Resolute       |    8 |  26.67% |  62.50% |
| 4    | Excadrill             |    8 |  26.67% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Latios                |    7 |  23.33% |  71.43% |
| 6    | Heatran               |    7 |  23.33% |  42.86% |
| 7    | Lokix                 |    7 |  23.33% |  57.14% |
| 8    | Skeledirge            |    6 |  20.00% |  66.67% |
| 9    | Toxapex               |    6 |  20.00% |  33.33% |
| 10   | Talonflame            |    6 |  20.00% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Tyranitar             |    6 |  20.00% |  16.67% |
| 12   | Clodsire              |    5 |  16.67% |  40.00% |
| 13   | Gardevoir             |    5 |  16.67% |  80.00% |
| 14   | Mandibuzz             |    5 |  16.67% |  40.00% |
| 15   | Salamence             |    5 |  16.67% |  20.00% |
| 16   | Weavile               |    5 |  16.67% |  40.00% |
| 17   | Thundurus             |    4 |  13.33% |  25.00% |
| 18   | Blissey               |    4 |  13.33% |  25.00% |
| 19   | Skarmory              |    4 |  13.33% |  25.00% |
| 20   | Scizor                |    4 |  13.33% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Slowking              |    4 |  13.33% |  25.00% |
| 22   | Hydreigon             |    3 |  10.00% |  66.67% |
| 23   | Hippowdon             |    3 |  10.00% |  33.33% |
| 24   | Enamorus-Therian      |    3 |  10.00% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Hydrapple             |    3 |  10.00% |  66.67% |
| 26   | Metagross             |    3 |  10.00% |  66.67% |
| 27   | Rotom-Wash            |    3 |  10.00% |  66.67% |
| 28   | Bisharp               |    2 |   6.67% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Slither Wing          |    2 |   6.67% |   0.00% |
| 30   | Cyclizar              |    2 |   6.67% |  50.00% |
| 31   | Espeon                |    2 |   6.67% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Fezandipiti           |    2 |   6.67% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Keldeo                |    2 |   6.67% | 100.00% |
| 34   | Cresselia             |    2 |   6.67% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Sandy Shocks          |    2 |   6.67% |  50.00% |
| 36   | Azumarill             |    2 |   6.67% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Greninja              |    1 |   3.33% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Tinkaton              |    1 |   3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39   | Thundurus-Therian     |    1 |   3.33% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Revavroom             |    1 |   3.33% | 100.00% |
| 41   | Quagsire              |    1 |   3.33% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Iron Jugulis          |    1 |   3.33% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Mew                   |    1 |   3.33% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Sinistcha-Masterpiece |    1 |   3.33% |   0.00% |
| 45   | Hawlucha              |    1 |   3.33% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Jirachi               |    1 |   3.33% | 100.00% |
| 47   | Magnezone             |    1 |   3.33% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Conkeldurr            |    1 |   3.33% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Swampert              |    1 |   3.33% |   0.00% |
| 50   | Empoleon              |    1 |   3.33% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Krookodile            |    1 |   3.33% | 100.00% |
| 52   | Suicune               |    1 |   3.33% | 100.00% |
| 53   | Mimikyu               |    1 |   3.33% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Zapdos-Galar          |    1 |   3.33% |   0.00% |
| 55   | Bellibolt             |    1 |   3.33% | 100.00% |

Code:

+ ---- + --------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon               | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + --------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Latios                |   92 |  32.39% |  41.30% |
| 2    | Excadrill             |   87 |  30.63% |  47.13% |
| 3    | Heatran               |   65 |  22.89% |  53.85% |
| 4    | Mandibuzz             |   62 |  21.83% |  51.61% |
| 5    | Donphan               |   55 |  19.37% |  49.09% |
| 6    | Skarmory              |   55 |  19.37% |  47.27% |
| 7    | Slither Wing          |   54 |  19.01% |  46.30% |
| 8    | Tyranitar             |   53 |  18.66% |  50.94% |
| 9    | Keldeo-Resolute       |   52 |  18.31% |  51.92% |
| 10   | Thundurus             |   41 |  14.44% |  53.66% |
| 11   | Lokix                 |   40 |  14.08% |  40.00% |
| 12   | Hydrapple             |   37 |  13.03% |  48.65% |
| 13   | Conkeldurr            |   36 |  12.68% |  61.11% |
| 14   | Serperior             |   33 |  11.62% |  63.64% |
| 15   | Gardevoir             |   32 |  11.27% |  46.88% |
| 16   | Metagross             |   31 |  10.92% |  45.16% |
| 17   | Tinkaton              |   31 |  10.92% |  38.71% |
| 18   | Toxapex               |   30 |  10.56% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Fezandipiti           |   30 |  10.56% |  63.33% |
| 20   | Weavile               |   28 |   9.86% |  46.43% |
| 21   | Clodsire              |   25 |   8.80% |  48.00% |
| 22   | Sinistcha             |   25 |   8.80% |  52.00% |
| 23   | Thundurus-Therian     |   25 |   8.80% |  56.00% |
| 24   | Iron Jugulis          |   24 |   8.45% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Arcanine-Hisui        |   24 |   8.45% |  45.83% |
| 26   | Azumarill             |   24 |   8.45% |  37.50% |
| 27   | Slowking              |   23 |   8.10% |  60.87% |
| 28   | Scizor                |   23 |   8.10% |  39.13% |
| 29   | Rotom-Wash            |   22 |   7.75% |  59.09% |
| 30   | Talonflame            |   21 |   7.39% |  42.86% |
| 31   | Ninetales-Alola       |   19 |   6.69% |  52.63% |
| 32   | Manaphy               |   19 |   6.69% |  42.11% |
| 33   | Mamoswine             |   18 |   6.34% |  50.00% |
| 34   | Skeledirge            |   17 |   5.99% |  52.94% |
| 35   | Greninja              |   17 |   5.99% |  52.94% |
| 36   | Keldeo                |   16 |   5.63% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Krookodile            |   16 |   5.63% |  56.25% |
| 38   | Ninetales             |   16 |   5.63% |  37.50% |
| 39   | Jirachi               |   16 |   5.63% |  37.50% |
| 40   | Zapdos-Galar          |   15 |   5.28% |  33.33% |
| 41   | Sandy Shocks          |   13 |   4.58% |  53.85% |
| 42   | Blissey               |   13 |   4.58% |  61.54% |
| 43   | Cyclizar              |   13 |   4.58% |  61.54% |
| 44   | Cresselia             |   13 |   4.58% |  38.46% |
| 45   | Hawlucha              |   12 |   4.23% |  66.67% |
| 46   | Grimmsnarl            |   11 |   3.87% |  45.45% |
| 47   | Hippowdon             |   11 |   3.87% |  54.55% |
| 48   | Hydreigon             |   11 |   3.87% |  27.27% |
| 49   | Bisharp               |   11 |   3.87% |  45.45% |
| 50   | Espeon                |   10 |   3.52% |  50.00% |
| 51   | Venusaur              |   10 |   3.52% |  40.00% |
| 52   | Revavroom             |    9 |   3.17% |  66.67% |
| 53   | Gastrodon             |    8 |   2.82% |  50.00% |
| 54   | Basculegion-F         |    8 |   2.82% |  62.50% |
| 55   | Mienshao              |    7 |   2.46% |  57.14% |
| 56   | Mew                   |    7 |   2.46% |  57.14% |
| 57   | Politoed              |    7 |   2.46% |  57.14% |
| 58   | Enamorus-Therian      |    6 |   2.11% |  33.33% |
| 59   | Iron Leaves           |    6 |   2.11% |  83.33% |
| 60   | Gyarados              |    6 |   2.11% |  50.00% |
| 61   | Barraskewda           |    6 |   2.11% |  50.00% |
| 62   | Magnezone             |    6 |   2.11% |  33.33% |
| 63   | Volcanion             |    6 |   2.11% |  50.00% |
| 64   | Pincurchin            |    5 |   1.76% |  80.00% |
| 65   | Cobalion              |    5 |   1.76% |  40.00% |
| 66   | Empoleon              |    5 |   1.76% |  60.00% |
| 67   | Armarouge             |    5 |   1.76% |  80.00% |
| 68   | Diancie               |    5 |   1.76% | 100.00% |
| 69   | Necrozma              |    5 |   1.76% | 100.00% |
| 70   | Gastrodon-East        |    5 |   1.76% |  60.00% |
| 71   | Ribombee              |    5 |   1.76% |  20.00% |
| 72   | Salamence             |    5 |   1.76% |  40.00% |
| 73   | Klawf                 |    4 |   1.41% |  75.00% |
| 74   | Thwackey              |    4 |   1.41% | 100.00% |
| 75   | Suicune               |    4 |   1.41% |  50.00% |
| 76   | Reuniclus             |    4 |   1.41% |  50.00% |
| 77   | Gallade               |    4 |   1.41% | 100.00% |
| 78   | Swampert              |    4 |   1.41% |  25.00% |
| 79   | Sinistcha-Masterpiece |    4 |   1.41% |  25.00% |
| 80   | Scovillain            |    4 |   1.41% |  25.00% |
| 81   | Lilligant-Hisui       |    3 |   1.06% |  33.33% |
| 82   | Umbreon               |    3 |   1.06% | 100.00% |
| 83   | Gengar                |    3 |   1.06% |  33.33% |
| 84   | Houndstone            |    3 |   1.06% |  33.33% |
| 85   | Haxorus               |    2 |   0.70% | 100.00% |
| 86   | Bellibolt             |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 87   | Rhyperior             |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 88   | Deoxys-Defense        |    2 |   0.70% |   0.00% |
| 89   | Palossand             |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 90   | Scream Tail           |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 91   | Toedscruel            |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Exeggutor-Alola       |    2 |   0.70% | 100.00% |
| 93   | Spidops               |    2 |   0.70% |   0.00% |
| 94   | Chesnaught            |    2 |   0.70% | 100.00% |
| 95   | Mimikyu               |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 96   | Indeedee              |    2 |   0.70% |   0.00% |
| 97   | Iron Thorns           |    2 |   0.70% | 100.00% |
| 98   | Araquanid             |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 99   | Froslass              |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 100  | Cetitan               |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 101  | Raikou                |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 102  | Slowbro-Galar         |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 103  | Lucario               |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 104  | Regieleki             |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 105  | Scyther               |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 106  | Wo-Chien              |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 107  | Drifblim              |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 108  | Sceptile              |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 109  | Blastoise             |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 110  | Minior                |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Shiftry               |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 112  | Breloom               |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 113  | Azelf                 |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 114  | Sylveon               |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 115  | Crawdaunt             |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 116  | Staraptor             |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 117  | Veluza                |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 118  | Cloyster              |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 119  | Oricorio-Sensu        |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 120  | Terrakion             |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 121  | Kingdra               |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 122  | Uxie                  |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 123  | Regidrago             |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 124  | Basculegion           |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 125  | Ditto                 |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 126  | Weezing               |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |

The death of tera blast was thought to be the death of serperior... well that is quite a turn of events as sub seed which was thought to be a noob set and a set with knock off popped up utilizing tera ghost / fairy to farm stuff such as conk as not many teams can deal with it. It is also the highest used mon in scl which is surprising. For a mon ranked B+ this is quite interesting while also doing quite well at 14th in inv.

Its interesting, over the time it seems lokix is just favored way more than weavile esp in such a meta. Its more interesting because i still think weavile is plenty good but dam in both scl and inv lokix has higher usage by like 5%. Thoughts rn is just lokix matches up better into stuff like conk, gard, and meta.

Another thing that ive been seeing is pain split life orb sets and pain split helmet sets. Those are quite interesting especially with dealing with fatter teams life orb surf really does a shit ton and while i feel its maybe "no shit obv life orb surf does a lot" pain split is an interesting option esp with the set being taunt + PS to just shove slowking into a locker while ive seen icy wind been used on both sets. Helmet is easily used to bully weavile but more so stuff like scarf meta clicking slam, soft checking h-arc and wearing it down stupid fast, and chipping stuff like mandibuzz.

A lot of people are cheating electric immunities right now... usually u need an electric immunity so u dont get shuffled around by volt turn but througout inv and scl you see teams drop grounds for stuff like fez, hydrapple, or use serp to stop thundurus / rotom-w esp with the trending down of thundurus-therian. Its an interesting choice to drop electric immunities but it has worked out to some success (idt u should drop electric immunities but its working at times)

Thundurus-I has a lot more usage than thundurus-therian esp on more balance teams as the speed over latios / keldeo alongside not being walled somewhat by gard by it tracing its own volt aborb. I still think its super good as it hits super hard and its very good into teams that try to use hydrapple / fez to try to stop its volt turn shenanigans as its much stronger and an option ive found vs clod is psychic as it also hits fez. I think its super underated on balance nowadays

I think greninja is a bum, but i think specs protean is a much better set than battle bond... esp with specs sludge wave being able to dent keldeo, azumarill, and isnt gonna wear itself in comparison to battle bond. Not much to say but dam its fallen quite off.. Remember when we wanted to suspect it? Those were some old times

Prob the biggest loser as of the few months esp with fez coming into play, donphan / clodsire existing much more in comparison to the past. I think it being a steel that gets absolutely owned by top tier latios, gard, and is unable to touch fez is so bad for it alongside it having like not many good MU's at all. I think its a C rank mon like why would i use it nowadays

This mon is an extreme bum. Tries to do a lot and fails doing it. I think as a ground it sucks as it cant touch thundurus well at all nowadays, while its MU into thundurus-t is unreliable at best, it is free food nowadays for serperior, weavile, av conk, keldeo. Clod being able to eat its hits up and Hydrapple stone walling it. Shuca set is prob the best nowadays, I remember people toying around with it but stopped so idk what happened

Well this was something, just a lot of shower thoughts going into this meta, prob wanted to spark discussion on trends I found interesting and stuff, A lot of stuff gets talked into discord but i felt putting it in the thread felt better

samohi0 · Sep 21, 2026

as someone relatively new to the tier serps lack of presence surprised me, I think people had been ignoring that while contrary is the core of serperior its not its only tool. Especially in this uu metagame its a good water resist with a guaranteed para/knock in the pocket, leaf storm is what gives it its cleaning ability, but its frankly so easy to get value out of I was surprised people didn't use earlier. Im glad serp is getting its due especially in a meta game where sun Is apparently very opressive

samohi0 · Nov 4, 2026

Regarding the new survey

Where does serious discussion about banning weavile come from? I rarely see it and when I do it languishes especially next to the tiers premier dark type. Bringing me to my main point, why does Lokix never get brought up during tiering discussion? CB ohkos so much of the tier and it pressures all of its checks with u-turn until its becomes a knock off victim, the only mon that I think serves a true counter is skarm who can avoid getting 2hko by knock off longer than everyone else, but that’s one pokemon among a list of victims and future victims. Does no one else feel like it an extremely powerful threat from preview that invalidates most offensive mons attempts to get anything going? And also what does weavile do so well that it’s considered worth discussing?

Evan the wise · Nov 4, 2026

samohi0 said:
Regarding the new survey

Where does serious discussion about banning weavile come from? I rarely see it and when I do it languishes especially next to the tiers premier dark type. Bringing me to my main point, why does Lokix never get brought up during tiering discussion? CB ohkos so much of the tier and it pressures all of its checks with u-turn until its becomes a knock off victim, the only mon that I think serves a true counter is skarm who can avoid getting 2hko by knock off longer than everyone else, but that’s one pokemon among a list of victims and future victims. Does no one else feel like it an extremely powerful threat from preview that invalidates most offensive mons attempts to get anything going? And also what does weavile do so well that it’s considered worth discussing?

fair. lokix is better than weavile according to this and should rise on the vr. then again;seems to mostly just be a strong guy. to be fair weavile's fake out is prone to contact punishment too. priority exists and with how many stuff threatens weavile. heatran and talonflame seem to be the only mons that punish lokix in particular. priority is common around here. ice shard implies you drop swords dance or low kick;and therefore get sat on by coballion(then again coballion's probably gonna drop to ru)

NDK · Nov 4, 2026

samohi0 said:
Regarding the new survey

Where does serious discussion about banning weavile come from? I rarely see it and when I do it languishes especially next to the tiers premier dark type. Bringing me to my main point, why does Lokix never get brought up during tiering discussion? CB ohkos so much of the tier and it pressures all of its checks with u-turn until its becomes a knock off victim, the only mon that I think serves a true counter is skarm who can avoid getting 2hko by knock off longer than everyone else, but that’s one pokemon among a list of victims and future victims. Does no one else feel like it an extremely powerful threat from preview that invalidates most offensive mons attempts to get anything going? And also what does weavile do so well that it’s considered worth discussing?

The primary problem with CB Lokix is that it is extremely prediction-reliant and not all that fast. When you use CB First Impression, you lose a ton of momentum as you are forced to switch out, giving your opponent a completely free turn to do whatever they want. Other mons such as Heatran and Talonflame can punish Lokix with Flame Body, even if they take major damage from Knock Off, and mons such as Fezandipiti don't care much about even CB Lokix. What makes Weavile so dominant in UU is its Speed stat, which is faster than the entirety of the unboosted metagame bar Talonflame. If it sets up a Swords Dance, it becomes extremely threatening, as its moveset of Triple Axel, Knock Off, and Low Kick hits the entire tier for at least neutral coverage, bar Azumarill, which is not the best mon in UU. While Scarfers like Gardevoir and Galarian Zapdos do exist, as well as Talonflame, Weavile can ruin their day with Ice Shard if they are sufficiently chipped.

Evan the wise · Nov 4, 2026

NDK said:
The primary problem with CB Lokix is that it is extremely prediction-reliant and not all that fast. When you use CB First Impression, you lose a ton of momentum as you are forced to switch out, giving your opponent a completely free turn to do whatever they want. Other mons such as Heatran and Talonflame can punish Lokix with Flame Body, even if they take major damage from Knock Off, and mons such as Fezandipiti don't care much about even CB Lokix. What makes Weavile so dominant in UU is its Speed stat, which is faster than the entirety of the unboosted metagame bar Talonflame. If it sets up a Swords Dance, it becomes extremely threatening, as its moveset of Triple Axel, Knock Off, and Low Kick hits the entire tier for at least neutral coverage, bar Azumarill, which is not the best mon in UU. While Scarfers like Gardevoir and Galarian Zapdos do exist, as well as Talonflame, Weavile can ruin their day with Ice Shard if they are sufficiently chipped.

try to say basc-f is forced to switch out when clicking the wrong move in ru'd get ignored(even though it's true. trust me specs is common and her ability to be played around outside of rain is understated and downplayed, even played around on rain). if it's an issue for lokix in uu than basc-f in ru;which is even slower and doesn't even have her pivot move boosted by her attack stat and the power boost is just to stabs so coverage Is weak on a broader scale. and I guess being a dark not weak to fighting moves is nice;no vacuum wave for you keldeo. or mach punch;conkeldurr. stronger priority(even if it drains momentum better into gren and hydreigon.). note;this is an analogy

LilOu · Nov 4, 2026

samohi0 said:
Regarding the new survey

Where does serious discussion about banning weavile come from? I rarely see it and when I do it languishes especially next to the tiers premier dark type. Bringing me to my main point, why does Lokix never get brought up during tiering discussion? CB ohkos so much of the tier and it pressures all of its checks with u-turn until its becomes a knock off victim, the only mon that I think serves a true counter is skarm who can avoid getting 2hko by knock off longer than everyone else, but that’s one pokemon among a list of victims and future victims. Does no one else feel like it an extremely powerful threat from preview that invalidates most offensive mons attempts to get anything going? And also what does weavile do so well that it’s considered worth discussing?

completely agree. i just filled the survey before reading this, but thought the same. voted 2/5 for weavile, and mentioned lokix in the "additional comments about SVUU" text box. lokix is far more centralizing and way more restrictive in teambuilder than weavile, in my experience. i would 100% be more in favor of a lokix suspect than a weavile suspect.

"oh, you managed to set up with your sweeper? +2 speed, +2 attack? oh! and still got tera steel to resist a revenge kill by priority? dw. let me come in and click tinted lens tera bug first impression"

of course, protect exists. even though that slot could be INFINITELY more useful, i run protect on every setup sweeper i can just to make lokix users cry. but come on man. stupid mon tbh. it's brain dead. it just clicks and kills.

Heatranator · Nov 4, 2026

Lokix 'may' be broken, but it's also a very important presence to keep a lot of stuff in check, stuff like latios, weavile, weather etc.

Once more broken stuff gets banned, then maybe lokix could be discussed, but as of rn, banning lokix would just make the tier so much worse by removing a very much needed revenge killer.

Anyways, ban latios, ban weavile, ban keldeo, then look at what to ban next. I do not like current UU, it feels like so many mons need very specific responses. Maybe a torn drop would help that (which is predicted to have a chance to happen from last month's stats) but also that would make weavile even worse to deal with so lol.

Evan the wise · Nov 4, 2026

ban weavile? nah weavile seems pretty balanced here. has clear flaws and lots of stuff(slither wing sorry for the flutter mane typo, conk, helmet keldeo, etc. especially heatran.) beat it so it looks bad compared to lokix. running protect means dropping low kick and lilou didn't exactly say protect was useless. even admitted he ran protect on every set up sweeper he could just to make lokix users cry. and you need to burn tera to punish a guess so it's not like without said tera it's punishing them a lot;and only half of them.

Evan the wise · Nov 5, 2026

OatIsHere said:
did i just see flutter mane be talked about in uu

anyways not the most experienced sv uu person here but weavile seems managable & if two suspect tests cant hack it for its ban then idk what will

slither wing I meant sorry for the typo I just messed up in my head. wait where the heck did the post go? it seems to have been deleted

LilOu · Nov 5, 2026

Heatranator said:
Lokix 'may' be broken, but it's also a very important presence to keep a lot of stuff in check, stuff like latios, weavile, weather etc.

Once more broken stuff gets banned, then maybe lokix could be discussed, but as of rn, banning lokix would just make the tier so much worse by removing a very much needed revenge killer.

Anyways, ban latios, ban weavile, ban keldeo, then look at what to ban next. I do not like current UU, it feels like so many mons need very specific responses. Maybe a torn drop would help that (which is predicted to have a chance to happen from last month's stats) but also that would make weavile even worse to deal with so lol.

this is where my experience diverges. i am not a lokix user, and in entire months/years i have never struggled versus any of the things you say it keeps in check. which leads me to think those things don't require lokix in the tier to be manageable. there are plenty of other ways to deal with them. which leads me to think that the argument of "if we ban lokix first, then we are in trouble" / "lokix stops these threats from becoming broken" is not that...strong.

that's why i would support a lokix suspect before anything else. as much as i hate lokix, i'm not saying it's broken or that it needs insta ban. i just say that between lokix and weavile, lokix is the one who deserves to be suspect tested, imo

Permission Slip · Friday at 1:42 PM

Got some time to kill this morning / afternoon and I wanna respond to some stuff here so here I am. If you don't want to read the whole thing then TLDR here is the discussion on what to ban here is so misguided and tone deaf that it physical makes my body coil into a ball of pure pain and torture.

samohi0 said:
Regarding the new survey

Where does serious discussion about banning weavile come from? I rarely see it and when I do it languishes especially next to the tiers premier dark type. Bringing me to my main point, why does Lokix never get brought up during tiering discussion? CB ohkos so much of the tier and it pressures all of its checks with u-turn until its becomes a knock off victim, the only mon that I think serves a true counter is skarm who can avoid getting 2hko by knock off longer than everyone else, but that’s one pokemon among a list of victims and future victims. Does no one else feel like it an extremely powerful threat from preview that invalidates most offensive mons attempts to get anything going? And also what does weavile do so well that it’s considered worth discussing?

This is a legit question. I know you stated you are new, so welcome to the tier! I know spell explained a good amount of the general stance on discord, but I am going to reiterate some things here in my own words for public documentation. Choice band lokix is a very strong initial hitter, but generally falls flat for the reasons below.

General tier power level: despite being able to come in and revenge kill a good chunk of pokemon, most teams are not built to where that is a huge issue when played properly. Being locked into fimp to do your maximum damage leaves you vulnerable to where your opponent gets an entire turn to set up whatever mon they have in the back turning lokix into a trade bot that has poor longevity. If you were able to keep off hazards and weaken the enemy team enough to where you are able to successfully trade, congrats! You found your win con. Getting there is never free though (going to mention here if your opponent isn't switching out their wincon cus they are at +1 cm or something then they are probably just bad and can't recognize that battles are more than just who sets up first)
Speed: Paired with the above point and to concentrate on lokix's other moves, lokix isn't very fast for the tier. A lot of offensive threats slower than it (revavroom, excadrill, slither wing for example) all have moves they are generally happy to click (even excadrill for hazard removal / late game sweeping potential). This means not only is lokix being forced into choice locked prio moves for big threats in the tier like keldeo, latios, weavile, gren, but is also getting stuck flat footed vs a lot of slower threats to click those moves. Even in BO structures you need to make opportunities to click knock, u-turn, etc vs scarf gardevoirs and metagross', late game weavile sweepers, serperiors in general. This makes the option of being able to click these moves a lot harder as almost all of these mons can take advantage of you locking yourself into your lower speed tier (serperior needing a sub on a switch in to trade for damage / ko would be the main exception).
Defensive Options: I think this is where your main concern comes in, but this overview is about the same discussion we have every year for any gen. Go back to SS and its conk / prim / steela depending on who you are talking to. BW you can look at shao / dragons / nidos / tini (i dont play oras / sm so i had to jump a bit sorry). Lokix is faster and is meant to break these defensive walls. It's what makes Lokix a good pokemon. The issue is how you play into the mon with a more defensive core. Big lokix damage means you need to prioritize your hazard game. Knowing what you can let get knocked so lokix does less overall damage to the answer. Lets take your skarm example for being able to switch in as I think it is the easiest to grasp. If you knock my skarm and it does 55%, but the next one only does 40. If i click roost I am getting back 10% every time. You also can't stay in freely as most skarms run brave bird. That means realistically you are getting back to over half when you check into the lokix. You obviously cant get a free switch to wall it every time, but if you are in a reactionary state that much to where lokix can come in again and again to knock freely you are probably just getting owned to put it simply. Time to wake up and make a play to win the game not autopilot to the win itself. This is also escalated by how easy it is to put multiple defensive answers on a team. Skarm + Fez has been good for a very long time. Skeledirge is at its best with tera fairy anyways, making it fine to get knocked off. Heatran can fish for flame bodies, same with talonflame. Tinkaton can steal its band to make it hit less effectively. Mandibuzz can sit on it all day if you play it right. Tera hydrapple can NP, recover, and chip with helmet if the team needs a set like that. All of these you can combo into my next point.
Can't keep up hazards? Their team is probably just better: If it is really to the point where band lokix is coming in and not taking 25%, because you can't keep up hazards vs your opponent on top of not being able to chip down lokix with the 10 mons that run rocky helmet in the tier, they are probably just better than you I'm sorry to say. You need to know what to prioritize in what matches. If i am facing 6 steel types I am not clicking rocks once I am making sure my steel answer never has the chance to get exploded. When I see a band lokix I am trading up for a KO if I have to (bit of an exaggeration but you get what I mean if its good for the long game then hell ya). The mon does not have the longevity to take your entire soul in most cases. You have to play into that fact that it gets locked and you have to set it on a timer. Not being able to achieve that is the only thing that ever makes it seem broken imo

Hope this answers some of your questions. Basically with weavile it can do all of this but take no damage from helmets with beat up, can taunt, doesn't need to be choice locked, is naturally faster than 90% of the tier, can tera to beat its checks (band kix will only ever tera bug). Go look at replays from this UUCL (this forum section) and SCL (tournaments section), you will see a big trend of why weavile is so valuable compared to lokix.

LilOu said:
completely agree. i just filled the survey before reading this, but thought the same. voted 2/5 for weavile, and mentioned lokix in the "additional comments about SVUU" text box. lokix is far more centralizing and way more restrictive in teambuilder than weavile, in my experience. i would 100% be more in favor of a lokix suspect than a weavile suspect.

"oh, you managed to set up with your sweeper? +2 speed, +2 attack? oh! and still got tera steel to resist a revenge kill by priority? dw. let me come in and click tinted lens tera bug first impression"

of course, protect exists. even though that slot could be INFINITELY more useful, i run protect on every setup sweeper i can just to make lokix users cry. but come on man. stupid mon tbh. it's brain dead. it just clicks and kills.

Dog click the switch button are you kidding me. Sorry you didn't kill their revenge killer so you can't sweep cus you set up too early! If that is the mon that threatens their whole team, then having a free turn is going to let you trade back! Also calling protect worthless is just so ignorant imo. Sometimes on teams there are better moves, because you have answers that allow you to not spend a turn doing nothing, but for scouting choice moves, tricks, letting pokemon take ticks to put them into your move ranges are some of the things that make running protect not useless. If you build your teams right, then protect can become more than just "i dont want to get fimped so ig im running this!" Read above. If you are getting rocked every game by a band lokix it's probably because you are the one playing brainless on ladder.

Evan the wise said:
try to say basc-f is forced to switch out when clicking the wrong move in ru'd get ignored(even though it's true. trust me specs is common and her ability to be played around outside of rain is understated and downplayed, even played around on rain). if it's an issue for lokix in uu than basc-f in ru;which is even slower and doesn't even have her pivot move boosted by her attack stat and the power boost is just to stabs so coverage Is weak on a broader scale. and I guess being a dark not weak to fighting moves is nice;no vacuum wave for you keldeo. or mach punch;conkeldurr. stronger priority(even if it drains momentum better into gren and hydreigon.)

Evan the wise said:
ban weavile? nah weavile seems pretty balanced here. has clear flaws and lots of stuff(slither wing sorry for the typo, conk, talonflame, etc) beat it so it looks bad compared to lokix.

Wtf does RU have to do with UU discussion. Basc-f gets used here as a specs ghost breaker and the fact that you have to mention the RU discussion for it here shows you don't know what you are talking about. Please join one of the tier discords and ask questions to those who have been around a while before making public opinions.

And for the record Weav also can run protect pretty freely and triple axel into any non-scarf slither set to clean up end games (AND also can tera ghost to stop half these mons from OHKOing it if they guess wrong !!!!). Talonflame is just a flame body prayer half the time but yes it is faster and gets flare blitz so sure. I dont wanna run talon on every team tho that mon kinda buns

Heatranator said:
Lokix 'may' be broken, but it's also a very important presence to keep a lot of stuff in check, stuff like latios, weavile, weather etc.

Once more broken stuff gets banned, then maybe lokix could be discussed, but as of rn, banning lokix would just make the tier so much worse by removing a very much needed revenge killer.

Anyways, ban latios, ban weavile, ban keldeo, then look at what to ban next. I do not like current UU, it feels like so many mons need very specific responses. Maybe a torn drop would help that (which is predicted to have a chance to happen from last month's stats) but also that would make weavile even worse to deal with so lol.

The only 2 valid things you have said here is discussion on banning lati and weav. They have enough variety to where it can definitely strain your builder (why they were on the tiering survey BTW!!!!). Banning keldeo is a so far out of this planet take that you must be from an unnamed pink hue planet outside of earth's solar system. Its a good wrong don't get me wrong but it can never have the perfect moveset. Serp has been on a huge rise which is a total pain in the ass for it on top of things like hydrapple. Milo usage up to help with it, gardevoir, slowking if people want to run the right options to respect it, AV conk, latios (i know is on your list but you get what i mean), toxapex hell salamence. If it drops fighting move for icy wind then it gets even harder for it too. Tera steel is annoying but thats about it. Same goes with everything I said about Lokix above. It can be annoying but calling these things broken checking brokens is just mind boggling to me.

Anyways thats my rant for today. Sorry for being blunt but these threads turn into giant echo chambers of complaints of people less in the know instead of anyone actually trying to find a full on solution. Just upset kids going "i dont like x so lets ban it." Usually why I avoid these threads, but I think the OG poster put in enough effort of why he felt the mon was broken and how they were having issues figuring out how to deal with it that made it valid why they thought it was broken. I seriously hope you take the answer in stride and stay around to learn how to deal with it. I know it can get frustrating, but the more experience you get the more you will realize how much control over the situation you can have.

LilOu · Friday at 2:12 PM

Permission Slip said:
Dog click the switch button are you kidding me.

i do

Permission Slip said:
Sorry you didn't kill their revenge killer so you can't sweep cus you set up too early!

lol im not gonna elaborate on this

Permission Slip said:
Also calling protect worthless is just so ignorant imo.

when did i call protect worthless? never. it's a great move in some situations, but let's be real, dog

if lokix didn't exist in this tier, 90% of the setup sweepers that now run protect would stop using it. greninja, weavile, dd tar...you name it. they all would appreciate a third coverage move WAY more than protect just for the sake of sir click first impression lokix or any other of the techs you listed.

Permission Slip said:
Read above. If you are getting rocked every game by a band lokix it's probably because you are the one playing brainless on ladder.

i never said i'm getting rocked by lokix. in fact, it's the opposite. thanks to the fact that i run protect on every single setup sweeper that allows for it, most opposing teams that rely on first impression to revenge kill just get cooked. easy ladder points for me.

---

seems to me that you're missing all my points. so im gonna make a summary for you:

im not saying lokix needs a suspect. but weavile doesn't deserve one more than lokix.

we all are trying to suspect weavile again when it's got way more answers and it's way less restrictive than lokix. in any case, wrong dark knock off user to suspect.

weavile is completely fine

olivia · Friday at 2:39 PM

so in your own words, your opponent having a lokix is "easy points" for you and this makes it banworthy?

LilOu · Friday at 2:41 PM

olivia said:
so in your own words, your opponent having a lokix is "easy points" for you and this makes it banworthy?

i think you missed this part of my text, directly below the part you are quoting:

LilOu said:
im not saying lokix needs a suspect. but weavile doesn't deserve one more than lokix.

or this one on my previous post:

LilOu said:
as much as i hate lokix, i'm not saying it's broken or that it needs insta ban. i just say that between lokix and weavile, lokix is the one who deserves to be suspect tested, imo

--

you guys need more reading comprehension therapy oml

Metagame SV UU Metagame Discussion - The Indigo Disk

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