Announcement BASEBALLPL POLICY DISCUSSION

[Gekokeso]

Apologies for the delay, I had been working on some stuff IRL as well as busy with doing stuff in other sections of the site but I believe I needed to start the discussions for the next step for Petmod and Solomod tours. I had originally been holding out on starting discussion of this tournament until the development of DH3 would be near finalized, but it sadly seems like the new out of nowhere client modifications in main threw a wrench into those plans, so given we been running out of time I believe its time to get a discussion going and have this tour run in DH2.

For a while now it has been suggested that PMPL and SoloPL be merged into a single tour, given how much the solomods section has grown in recent time. It has also been suggested as a farm league-like tour for metas that don't make it to the roster of any of the big 2 tours. This was mentioned nearly half a year ago when development for PMPL V was being discussed and I believe that there's no better time to test this idea than right now that we seemingly still also have another available avi slot remaining.

As such, the plan is the following:

1. For the first time, we will test an exprimental tour: This tour will be comprised of a combination of both Solomods and Petmod metas, with the following ruleset applied to them.
   

   Part 1: The Tier Submission Process​

   
   The process of tier submissions for this year will be similar to the one on PMPL 4, but with certain changes to it.
   
   For a tournament of this size we always need to find the right tiers to introduce to the meta in order to ensure there’s significant activity in them, but at the same time some of these tiers have been either improperly coded which has caused bugs or builder irregularities. Some of these tiers have also proven to be unbalanced at times. Tour leaders aren’t perfect, they are not going to access the wants of the community 100% of the time.
   
   The submission will not guarantee the mod’s spot in the tournament, this only allows it the chance to be a part of it, as it will compete with other pet mod submissions. Submitted mods are not guaranteed to be in the final lineup, and mods that are not Fully Approved may have formats from previous years selected in their place. Should the deadline pass without enough submissions, the hosts will simply pick from the tiers from last year to fill the spots.
   
   To be part of the team vetting the metagames you can join on a poll that will be available later this week. As a member of the group you will be asked to engage in battles throughout the month to test the resources and metas being submitted, and report any issues or concerns you might have with the tier itself. You can join the team even if you are the one submitting a mod, but do note that you will be excluded from voting over the inclusion of that mod in particular, yet still can convince your fellow vetters on a decision.
   
   For submitting a tier to the tournament you will be required to provide multiple resources of the tier. Here’s a list of the 4 most basic things a submission needs to have for it to be approved:
   

   • A detailed and well examined banlist: This will become very relevant within the following section of this post, but essentially, ensure that not a single element, be it move, ability, item or Pokémon that could cause trouble makes it into the meta. Prove that everything is coded as it should.
   • A stress test - At least 15 battles or more showcasing all custom elements of the metagame working properly: This should be the most self explanatory. For this tournament we want metas that people play and enjoy, play as many battles as you can and attach the replays to your submission. This will showcase how good the meta is, if there are any balancing issues, and that there is player demand for that meta to make it in.
   • A moderate amount of sample teams: Willing to be lenient on this one. The samples added don’t need to be much, and in the case of metas with little new elements the number can be as few as 4, but the more samples showcasing new elements, the better. Samples should also be, for a lack of a better word, good. Update any samples that are either not as good or are outdated.
   • A up to date spreadsheet: The most important one. Document every change, addition and relevant information regarding your metagame in a spreadsheet, such as Pokémon, Moves, Abilities and Items. Make sure that the information on the spreadsheet is completely accurate to how the mod operates in the builder.

   Click to collapse...

   Part 2: Systems put in place in case of failure​

   
   Next section will cover the general list of rules that should be set in place in case that there are any errors. The list is not finalized, so give your input on what the best course of action should be in any of these cases.
   
   

   Teambuilder legality​

   In every PL we have had issues with some moves, abilities or Pokémon being allowed when they shouldn’t have been and has led to some controversy. For this reason, moving forward we will standardize the procedure of what happens in each of these cases.
   
   First and foremost, we shall implement the following:
   

   • The banlist submitted for each tier is final. If it appears on the banlist, you don’t use it. If a pokémon is found to be banned on the builder, but does not appear on the banlist, let tour hosts know as soon as possible to ensure either its added to the list or unbanned.
   • Should a pokémon be unbanned midweek in the above case, this decision will be broadcasted publicly so that every player is notified in time. Same if a banlist is updated.
   • Should a player appear to use a banned element that clearly appears in the banlist of said tier, their match will be considered null and win will be granted to their opponent. Should said element not been explicitly banned on the banlist it will be considered legal and the match will stand.
   • Should an element be judged to have been incorrectly mislabeled or functioning differently as it appears on a spreadsheet, you must notify any person responsible for the sheet or tour hosts to indicate the mistake prior to your match to fix it as soon as possible or notify all teams about it. After much controversy, I decided to remove the ruling that Knowing about a bug or miscoded mechanic yet not reporting it on time could result in a match being redone, as it just got a bit messy and banlist seemed to mostly solve the problem..

   Midweek Tier Changes​

   This has been a constant in every PL, and the method employed during the first section of this post should at least help with it in some way. Still, it's likely one or two metas have stuff that slips through the cracks, so to prepare for that, I have designated a schedule of some sort.
   
   Every tier will be entitled to making changes to their metas only three times per the duration of the solomods premier league. The changes can be done at any point during the tournament, but once you change it one week you must wait another week before being able to push for a change in the meta. This is a change that should allow for metas to get rid of anything that ends up being too much while also preventing multiple changes from taking place in a short time. Emergency Bans and Bugfixes are not restricted in this manner.
   
   

   Crashes / DH connectivity issues​

   This is unfortunately the one we have the least control of. It is every tier leader’s responsibility to make sure every meta is working as intended, and it will be their responsibility to test every custom element in their metas to prevent crashes. Still, there’s the chance a crash occurs in a battle or the server undergoes troubles that prevent players from logging in. For that the following options shall be provided:
   

   • Extension: Extensions to the battle can be provided for teams to make new teams or to play in case one can’t make it due to connectivity issues (note, provide as much evidence of this as possible to prove its due to connectivity)
   • Recreation: If a battle has started but the server restarts a recreation of the battle can be attempted, as long as every team provides their teams and a host is around to prove that no foul play is going on.
   • Rematch: Both teams load completely different teams. This does put pressure on players to have multiple teams at hand so it's definitely a more unpopular option, so just take this option if you feel comfortable having a backup in case of an emergency.

   Click to collapse...

2. Feedback from this tour will serve us to know if the idea of fusing the two tournaments of PMPL and SoloPL is a better way going forward of running the community tournaments or if we should just run those two tournaments as normal going forward. As of now, unless this tournament proves to genuinely be a genuine improvement of the other two and there's enough support for fusing the tours together, SoloPL will be the next tour after this.

There's a lot to be discussed but for now there's a couple of points I would like to see discussed:

1. Should this edition be solely limited to mods not included for this year's SoloPL and PMPL? From a technical glance I see that not that many more new big mods have appeared since PMPL and Solopl, and its been a while since SoloPL's tiers have been showcased in the tour, but at the same time I desired for this tournament to also serve to give metas not covered on either tour a chance to shine in the big stage. Should there be a hard restriction of only non-SoloPL/PMPL tiers or should there just be some sort of priority system?
2. Continuing from the next question, should there be a strict 50/50 split of tier requirements for both Petmod and Solomod tiers? This will very likely be the most controversial question, but I think its worth asking especially under the context of potentially capping the selectable tiers to only non SoloPL and PMPL tiers. I could see some merit in there being a 5/3 split instead of 4/4 tiers for this tournament, but I can deffinitely see how this could ruffle some feathers, but I'd like to see the community's input on this.
3. Should we consider flex slots? This is something I have now started to consider potentially implementing from how OMPL and OMCL are ran. The idea here is that instead of getting restricted to only 8 slots, teams would choose slots based on a pool of selectable tiers that have passed the submission process. This would be a very newcomer unfriendly change, but it would lead to more tiers getting represented, so I'd like to hear if people had any ideas about this.
4. Additionally, I have been largely considering reducing the period of the tier submission process from one month to 3 weeks. This change is based on my own experience running said process and how it would mostly just stagnate for various weeks of dead activity and just one or 2 mods subbed in the last week, which then led to a 1 week deliberation period. The idea here would be to make the submission time shorter but somewhat linient to any mod willing to put themselves for selection with potential extensions. I would like to hear thoughts about it.
5. Finally, this potential tour had been coined as EXPL (Experimental Premier League), but I will leave the door open for additional suggestions (and potentially a poll) for our name, for if someone wants the tour to be named MixedPL or SXPL or something.

Deadline for thoughts before opening submissions is about a week. No hard deadline cause these are a lot of aspects I would like to see discussed in some way or another.

 

[fiish]

will leave the door open for additional suggestions (and potentially a poll) for our name,

Click to collapse...

how about Pretty Experimental Tournament for Mods Outside the Dominant Submissions in Petmod Leagues (PETMODSPL for short)

 

[Noglastica]

Hi.

1. Should this edition be solely limited to mods not included for this year's SoloPL and PMPL?

yes. including petmods already signals this is an unserious tour so I think putting in unserious tiers makes sense.

1. Continuing from the next question, should there be a strict 50/50 split of tier requirements for both Petmod and Solomod tiers?

i think no for the "serious" combined petmod + solomod forum because solomods have more than 4 good tiers and petmods do not have 4 good tiers. for this, tour, i think it matters less. i would suggest trying to keep 4/4 for better representation across the two but if petmods submits 10 tiers and solomods submit 5 tiers then i wouldnt try and keep 4/4.

1. Should we consider flex slots?

1 at most for petmods and solomods. i would decide based on tier signups. if theres lots of tier signups, you can select the top 3 petmods, top 3 solomods, then have a flex to play the remaining # of tiers in the pool. i lean against flex slots though, i think that theres far too much range in mods to warrant this. another tour having a flex slot that is two similar nd oms vs us having a gen 4 draft format and a gen 9 mod with 200 custom mons. i forgot the name for the mods with all custom mons. i am healing.

1. Additionally, I have been largely considering reducing the period of the tier submission process from one month to 3 weeks. This change is based on my own experience running said process and how it would mostly just stagnate for various weeks of dead activity and just one or 2 mods subbed in the last week, which then led to a 1 week deliberation period. The idea here would be to make the submission time shorter but somewhat linient to any mod willing to put themselves for selection with potential extensions. I would like to hear thoughts about it.

ok.

1. Finally, this potential tour had been coined as EXPL (Experimental Premier League), but I will leave the door open for additional suggestions (and potentially a poll) for our name, for if someone wants the tour to be named MixedPL or SXPL or something.

worsepl
SExPL
WOATPL
mgpl
copenpl2
jtbpl

 

[Spammernoob]

Hi, is there an updated policy on bugs? Especially given that these tiers are likely less played / tested, I don't think the previous rules regarding them is sufficient.

 

[Gekokeso]

Hi, is there an updated policy on bugs? Especially given that these tiers are likely less played / tested, I don't think the previous rules regarding them is sufficient.

Click to collapse...

They are mostly the same as of PMPL5, with the ruling of previous knowledge potentially voiding games being discarded.

 

[Orangesodapop]

Q: Should this edition be solely limited to mods not included for this year's SoloPL and PMPL?

A: maybe, but I think we could do a best of dh2 to not make tourgoers miserable (me) the entire time we play this, but this can also prevent this by allowing for strange new mods to be discovered and get playtesting that they kinda need. What this question ultimately means is that:
As I am the rule king and I own everything pet mod related and know when tiers are bad.
THERE WILL BE NO MG IN THIS TOUR. I REFUSE TO PLAY ANOTHER MODERN GEN. On everyone’s soul these tiers are terrible and are poorly thought out and the people who created them should be dragged outside and shot (sorry nog it’s your fate)
By extension NO TERAMAX will be allowed in this tour. I see that you made some balance changes but Tera pult is still legal so tier bad. The tier needs to be reborn in fire and at least 8 mons need to be offed before this sees the light of a tour again
And this ultimately leads to the point of NO FUSION TIERS OR -EMONS TIERS. This rule is king besides the other two because WE all hate these tiers and want nothing to do with them. Get a better gimmick next time maybe?

Anyone who submits these tiers or a tier I found out I don’t like but don’t remember until their submission reminds me should be ipbanned off smog forums

Also, to those who said that we should go for well tested tours are people who are mad that they can’t just bug abuse to win matches anymore and are otp’s in this matter

What this above paragraph means in real terms is that natdex (the petmod) should be added to this []pl

Also I know I already said no mg tiers but this especially includes the non standard mg tiers like mg2 Ubers or mg1 dnu. You know who you are and know that these tiers are bad and ultimately coinflips. I’d rather add a slot where you just coin flip the match every week.

Q: Continuing from the next question, should there be a strict 50/50 split of tier requirements for both Petmod and Solomod tiers?

A: you know this is a bad question cuckoseko and therefore I won’t answer it. There’s more than enough of both to the point of where this isn’t relevant.

Never manage again.

-Tangerine River

Q: Should we consider flex slots?
A: isn’t this how it ALWAYS has worked? Either way flex slots are stupif if I gotta suffer in a single tier for the whole tour ALL OF YOU gotta do it too. You cant just sign up for a tour and be oh so high and mighty and be like “yeah I’m gonna play every tier but only when I feel like it”. Infact, to stop this everyone will only be allowed to sign up for (3) tiers max so lazy mfs don’t just copy the signup above them and repost it with their smogon user. This also prevents the random smogopp from tour central joining just to farm ca’s to ultimately complain about our (justifiably) bad tiers. Only difference between me and them is that I have the right to do so.


Q: YOU have been largely considering reducing the period of the tier submission process from one month to 3 weeks.

A: we both know that 3 weeks is a month anyway and we also both know that this will take 2 months again. The way to really change this to your standards is to instead set it to a single week and at petmodder conversion rates that’s roughly 3 weeks. Either way we will not get any niche solo mods anyway because they do not check these forums anyway or are banned. Big dilemma here.

Q: I will leave the door open for additional suggestions (and potentially a poll) for our name,

A:
worsepl
SExPL
WOATPL
copenpl2
jtbpl
(Seconding all of nog’s suggestions besides the mg)pl
EFSPl
Osppl
Plpl
Solopetpl
Basbalpl

Osp out

 

[anaconja]

Should this edition be solely limited to mods not included for this year's SoloPL and PMPL? From a technical glance I see that not that many more new big mods have appeared since PMPL and Solopl, and its been a while since SoloPL's tiers have been showcased in the tour, but at the same time I desired for this tournament to also serve to give metas not covered on either tour a chance to shine in the big stage. Should there be a hard restriction of only non-SoloPL/PMPL tiers or should there just be some sort of priority system?

Click to collapse...

idt it should be completely limited but a prio system could be ok, or 1-2 locks given to solomods (since pmpl already happened this year). i think itd be great to showcase stuff like six by six or public domain (not biased) or iron fist doubles (not biased) or pacifistmons 2 (not released) (not biased) but at the same time fevgc and touhoumons were big hits and i think they should come back

Continuing from the next question, should there be a strict 50/50 split of tier requirements for both Petmod and Solomod tiers? This will very likely be the most controversial question, but I think its worth asking especially under the context of potentially capping the selectable tiers to only non SoloPL and PMPL tiers. I could see some merit in there being a 5/3 split instead of 4/4 tiers for this tournament, but I can deffinitely see how this could ruffle some feathers, but I'd like to see the community's input on this.

Click to collapse...

no i think whatever passes the vibe check should get in whether thats 8 pet mods or 8 solomods

Should we consider flex slots? This is something I have now started to consider potentially implementing from how OMPL and OMCL are ran. The idea here is that instead of getting restricted to only 8 slots, teams would choose slots based on a pool of selectable tiers that have passed the submission process. This would be a very newcomer unfriendly change, but it would lead to more tiers getting represented, so I'd like to hear if people had any ideas about this.

Click to collapse...

well the thing is besides a few mainers basically everyone is a newcomer lol. i do worry that this could cause a lot of inactivity or cancering among a team but i do kinda like the idea. depending on how many tiers get approved this could be an option

Additionally, I have been largely considering reducing the period of the tier submission process from one month to 3 weeks. This change is based on my own experience running said process and how it would mostly just stagnate for various weeks of dead activity and just one or 2 mods subbed in the last week, which then led to a 1 week deliberation period. The idea here would be to make the submission time shorter but somewhat linient to any mod willing to put themselves for selection with potential extensions. I would like to hear thoughts about it.

Click to collapse...

yea

Finally, this potential tour had been coined as EXPL (Experimental Premier League), but I will leave the door open for additional suggestions (and potentially a poll) for our name, for if someone wants the tour to be named MixedPL or SXPL or something.

Click to collapse...

i think we should adopt snake draft rules to become Snake League Of Petmods

 

[zxgzxg]

1. If the tier has changed significantly since PMPL, I would consider it. This basically just excludes Fusion Evolution but it's probably more fair for mods with active development to get the chance to show their stuff.

TLDR Exclude all PMPL tiers except RandTand. free randtand

2. Probably not. Prioritize on choosing things that are good and fun rather than try to force an arbitrary ratio like that. If we get 7 Solomods + 1 Pet Mod, who cares. This is replacing SoloPL this year anyways so whatever.

3. i dont get it

4. 7 days is not that big a deal anyways. just start the tour already jfc

5. EXPL is pretty good, but I would like to throw in XMPL. eXperimental Mods Premier League. But, X is like the variable, could stand for "Pet" or "Solo". Also makes the name resemble "example", as us Pet Modders are shining examples of game design knowledge and battle skill. Triple entendre (idk how spell) kinda deal. I might be William Shakespeare.

 

[Noglastica]

this will be my final post on smogon dot com, and you wont get a fond farewell

i would like to endorse everything that osp has said, and will say, for the rest of my life.

Q: Should this edition be solely limited to mods not included for this year's SoloPL and PMPL?

A: maybe, but I think we could do a best of dh2 to not make tourgoers miserable (me) the entire time we play this, but this can also prevent this by allowing for strange new mods to be discovered and get playtesting that they kinda need. What this question ultimately means is that:
As I am the rule king and I own everything pet mod related and know when tiers are bad.
THERE WILL BE NO MG IN THIS TOUR. I REFUSE TO PLAY ANOTHER MODERN GEN. On everyone’s soul these tiers are terrible and are poorly thought out and the people who created them should be dragged outside and shot (sorry nog it’s your fate)
By extension NO TERAMAX will be allowed in this tour. I see that you made some balance changes but Tera pult is still legal so tier bad. The tier needs to be reborn in fire and at least 8 mons need to be offed before this sees the light of a tour again
And this ultimately leads to the point of NO FUSION TIERS OR -EMONS TIERS. This rule is king besides the other two because WE all hate these tiers and want nothing to do with them. Get a better gimmick next time maybe?

Anyone who submits these tiers or a tier I found out I don’t like but don’t remember until their submission reminds me should be ipbanned off smog forums

Also, to those who said that we should go for well tested tours are people who are mad that they can’t just bug abuse to win matches anymore and are otp’s in this matter

What this above paragraph means in real terms is that natdex (the petmod) should be added to this []pl

Also I know I already said no mg tiers but this especially includes the non standard mg tiers like mg2 Ubers or mg1 dnu. You know who you are and know that these tiers are bad and ultimately coinflips. I’d rather add a slot where you just coin flip the match every week.

Q: Continuing from the next question, should there be a strict 50/50 split of tier requirements for both Petmod and Solomod tiers?

A: you know this is a bad question cuckoseko and therefore I won’t answer it. There’s more than enough of both to the point of where this isn’t relevant.

Never manage again.

-Tangerine River

Q: Should we consider flex slots?
A: isn’t this how it ALWAYS has worked? Either way flex slots are stupif if I gotta suffer in a single tier for the whole tour ALL OF YOU gotta do it too. You cant just sign up for a tour and be oh so high and mighty and be like “yeah I’m gonna play every tier but only when I feel like it”. Infact, to stop this everyone will only be allowed to sign up for (3) tiers max so lazy mfs don’t just copy the signup above them and repost it with their smogon user. This also prevents the random smogopp from tour central joining just to farm ca’s to ultimately complain about our (justifiably) bad tiers. Only difference between me and them is that I have the right to do so.


Q: YOU have been largely considering reducing the period of the tier submission process from one month to 3 weeks.

A: we both know that 3 weeks is a month anyway and we also both know that this will take 2 months again. The way to really change this to your standards is to instead set it to a single week and at petmodder conversion rates that’s roughly 3 weeks. Either way we will not get any niche solo mods anyway because they do not check these forums anyway or are banned. Big dilemma here.

Q: I will leave the door open for additional suggestions (and potentially a poll) for our name,

A:
worsepl
SExPL
WOATPL
copenpl2
jtbpl
(Seconding all of nog’s suggestions besides the mg)pl
EFSPl
Osppl
Plpl
Solopetpl
Basbalpl

Osp out


View attachment 873104

Click to collapse...

unironically baseballpl goes hard. osppl also good.

or 1-2 locks given to solomods (since pmpl already happened this year)

Click to collapse...

fyi solomodpl also happened this year, your team finished last which might be why you forgot. i remember because i won (again)

free copen

 

[Quinn]

Q: I will leave the door open for additional suggestions (and potentially a poll) for our name,
A: copenpl2

 

[BIG ASHLEY]

SXPL

Click to collapse...

sexpl

 

[Gekokeso]

Alright less serious responses that I hoped but lets get this ball rolling before I forget:

1. PMPL V tiers will not be allowed to be submitted this edition of the tournament. I considered blocking tiers from last solopl as well but at this rate we are apparently reaching the time Solopl took place last year so it would be unfair to the tiers that appeared there. That being said, some degree of priority will indeed be implemented for tiers that didn't make the cut last year.
2. There will be a requirement of at least 3 Petmod Tiers and at least 3 Solomod tiers. Doing this given that while I think there should near equal representation of Petmods and Solomods, I think there should be some degree of leeway in case we see a bigger need for more solomods or petmods. It will be up to the betting team to see how the split goes.
3. The Submission period will be reduced to 3 weeks. Pretty self explanatory.

Speaking of Vetting Team, applications are now open through the following form: https://forms.gle/28mKKLX9sy9U9dYC6.

Submissions for tiers are now open here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/_________-tier-submissions.3790920/

I am opening a poll in this thread for people to vote the name of the new tour. Given the unseriousness of most suggestions (my fault, should have known better), I shall become a dreaded mod abuser and give you the following options:

• Experimental Petmods League (EXPL)
• Pretty Experimental Tournament for Mods Outside the Dominant Submissions in Petmod Leagues (PETMODSPL)
• Mixed Petmods League (MIXPL)
• Fuse Petmods League (FUSEPL)
• Testing Petmods League (TESTPL)
• Solomods / Petmods Champions League (SPCL)
• Baseballed Premier League (BASEBALLPL)

 

[Concept]

I am opening a poll in this thread for people to vote the name of the new tour. Given the unseriousness of most suggestions (my fault, should have known better), I shall become a dreaded mod abuser and give you the following options:

• Experimental Petmods League (EXPL)
• Pretty Experimental Tournament for Mods Outside the Dominant Submissions in Petmod Leagues (PETMODSPL)
• Mixed Petmods League (MIXPL)
• Fuse Petmods League (FUSEPL)
• Testing Petmods League (TESTPL)
• Solomods / Petmods Champions League (SPCL)
• Baseballed Premier League (BASEBALLPL)

Click to collapse...

I have a suggestion, "Modders Premier League," this naming sense is kind of bad. If you're showcasing both Petmods and Solomods, then it's best to not say Petmods even though it's the name of the forum as it kind of alienates the solomod aspect of the tournament and vice versa. I like the inclusion of "Modders" or "Modded" in the name as it makes you think about the people who've coded and dedicated their time to the metagames which make this whole section possible. Baseballed Premier League is going to make people think the tour is mickey and deter signups, although people actively involved in Pet Mods will understand the reference, a lot of people won't. (although I think it's funny)

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

"solopl vs petmod civil war"

uh i think its quite funny, battling each other for slots and stuff esp who is getting favored in a 5/3 split or a 4/4 even

Also joltemons for PL!

 

[BenjiTho]

So it's not really a petmod per se, but I do think usually useless moves only would be a pretty sick format to include.
We have played a few tours in my format (3 Musketeers) and include it in my draft league every year (we switch formats each week to different OMs).

It's always a blast to see the creativity people come up with. Personally I think natdex usually useless moves is the best because z moves really level it up.

 

[Gekokeso]

Yeah I don't know what I expected. The tour is now being called the Baseballed Premier League or BASEBALLPL. Feel free to discuss any other topic here like trade rules or support for subbed metagames or something.

 

[zxgzxg]

This community is painfully predictable.