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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

sob i built moon larp. but first i got some stuff i was gonna make before

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish
- Trick

so i was thinking about what to build and remembered leng loi and that really neat scarf :latias: + :heatran: team from like a year ago. so i figured "hey, i could prob try using this stuff". its honestly still pretty good. modest draco is actually really strong and is only a little weaker than timid :latios:, so you can get a lot of chunks into certain teams. Psyshock is also nice. you smack those annoying :clodsire: and also tera poison :cresselia: on occasion. i never really got to click hwish all that often but when it worked it helped. trick is super good though rn. a lot of teams main check is something pretty fat like :ting-lu: or :corviknight: so neutering them is pretty good. also helps vs a lot of set up mons like :zamazenta: :dragonite:. i've tricked stuff like :kingambit: too which helped. :latias: is still pretty good.

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Surf
- Alluring Voice
- Substitute


this goober is gonna be good. :manaphy: i've rarely seen for a while except on like some weirdo veil or ho stuff. here though its slightly more honest. tail glow is still really busted. the instant boost even on its own can overwhelm a ton of stuff. if you get a second tail glow off you can nuke everything that isn't a spdef :toxapex:. even :blissey: takes like 44 from this and its forced to waste a ton of softboiled pp. alluring voice has come in clutch for that confusion stuff, cuz occasionally you see :ogerpon-wellspring: get ready and sd. main thing is that it smacks :raging-bolt: :kyurem: :dragonite:. sub is pretty busted on this guy cuz you get to deal with :garganacl: and thunderclap and sucker much more easily and greed a lot of defensive switches. fun guy.

https://pokepast.es/bdac9ec916634b51
this little team got top 30 or so iirc. heres some replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2705474330-kcba3paist8fo8jc3t7466qtq3hk7pdpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2705473658-s0xnk0tua7fu222gk29136ufwpqpey2pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2705466129-bqfcx69wjgl9eyvcpv031g7x5f2ejqipw
also heres lax and his vid on the team. smh couldn't play like a mad lad.


anyways heres the moon stuff

Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 200 HP / 144 Atk / 48 Def / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost
so honestly this guy is sorta lowkey nuts. i was pretty much just larping around with this guy tbh and decided to try out bulky dd, cuz thats where the real money is at. i actually really like :roaring-moon: though. tera ground>tera fly honestly though. you already pressure tusk with that tera ground eq and zama are more offensive anyways so its not that big of a deal usually. plus i'm expecting more :weezing-galar: to put up so eq is just nice nuke. this guy still tanks a lot and dishes out of a lot of dmg. you can honestly turn off your brain a little with this guy but its def not satan imo.

Roaring Moon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Outrage
this other set is actually something i really really like about :roaring-moon:. scarf is something i really like mainly because of how it can perform a lot of roles without being a one time sweeper. It has a lot of defensive utility i really like so thats cool. :gholdengo: check and ok ish :ogerpon-wellspring: check is always nice and i like that. maybe you could be a bit more dishonest but i really think this goober or this set at least is fine.

https://pokepast.es/cbb14cb06480710d
https://pokepast.es/4bd7e7201b6d3f0c
heres the teams that got me to top 30 or so.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2707076874-v6bh6u3j5hxs2hcgsedo7u9mexjgl97pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2707082582-u9qenu9nu83yr9y4qgo29oes8899e7ypw
also heres aim and his vid about booster moon team

oh yeah i also have to talk about what i think.

:roaring-moon: is def something that I actually dont mind having around. is it kinda stupid sometimes? yeah, but thats kind of how a lot of mons are. it on its own is fine. IMO the only thing i have an issue with is that moon centralizes the meta to encourage really no thinking brain ho or really wack fat, which i really don't care for. Balance is basically ribbons with moon around compared to before where it actually had smth. by no means do i think this is worse than :cresselia: slop because it isnt, but thats a pretty low bar. im still on the fence about moon and do think it can be pretty interesting to have around. :roaring-moon: having this utility and power combined is just nice and fun. but idk it feels sorta toxic almost. my opinion is probably gonna be less nutty overtime so yippee:cheem-pao:

also highkey if you think volc is bad you should also think moon is bad cuz theyre both on the same level.
 
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Also you know that GF hates you when they leave you without Knock Off, Superpower, Defog and even Explosion and your scarf set is using tera Dragon Outrage.
 
If Moon is unbanned (and perhaps Terapagos too, touch wood), we would have a metagame shift, with some mons becoming more viable and others less, with the tiers half frozen. This should be revised.
 
I really hope the vote for Roaring Moon goes the way of Volc where we wonder why we ever bothered to retest it in the first place. Even without Tera Blast I feel Moon still retains 90% of its set versatility, and for how being such a potent sweeper it's simply way too powerful. Even if it doesn't have the right moveset option to blow away its check in a certain game it still is way too good at forcing damage/knock on physical walls to make a dent for other physical sweepers to clean up. I haven't been playing much lately but please vote ban.
 
I'm kinda confused on what unique benefits Scarf Moon would really bring? I suppose it has some solid general defensive utility, but otherwise, I'm not really sure what major benefits a scarf set is really bringing that isn't already handled by Darkrai or Meowscarada, which have a better speed tier (to handle opposing moons) and Trick.

IDK if Moon it overly restricting on Balance either. From what I remember in the previous metagame it was a part of, Balance had some solid answers to it between Ice Shard Weavile, Corviknight, Ting-Lu, Sticky Barb Clefable, E-Speed Dragonite, Fairy Boots Raging Bolt, Fairy Garg, & a few others. Of course, this is a bit restrictive + the right moon set between Ghost, Flying, and Ground can bust through this counterplay, but from what I recall, many of these Pokemon were already prominent staples on balance teams anyways & paired with one another. Ideally, Moon's presence would help balance indirectly by decreasing the usage of Ceruledge, Hoopa-U, and Tonadus-T which from what I recall are more restricting on balance, but we don't know if this will happen.

I probably won't be participating in this suspect, but I am still interested in hearing opinons.
 
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Magcargo said:
I'm kinda confused on what unique benefits Scarf Moon would really bring? I suppose it has some solid general defensive utility, but otherwise, I'm not really sure what major benefits a scarf set is really bringing that isn't already handled by Darkrai or Meowscarada, which have a better speed tier (to handle opposing moons) and Trick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
the main thing with scarf moon is that its defensive utility is also really supported by its bulk. you dont necessarily have to preserve this guys hp. just send it out into :iron-moth: sludge wave, take 48 and then ohko with eq. plus with knock it also helps with slowly breaking teams. even though it doesnt have booster it still hits pretty hard especially with stab knock and maybe outrage if youre enough of a gambler.

mcribs said:
anyways heres the moon stuff

Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 200 HP / 144 Atk / 48 Def / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost
so honestly this guy is sorta lowkey nuts. i was pretty much just larping around with this guy tbh and decided to try out bulky dd, cuz thats where the real money is at. i actually really like :roaring-moon: though. tera ground>tera fly honestly though. you already pressure tusk with that tera ground eq and zama are more offensive anyways so its not that big of a deal usually. plus i'm expecting more :weezing-galar: to put up so eq is just nice nuke. this guy still tanks a lot and dishes out of a lot of dmg. you can honestly turn off your brain a little with this guy but its def not satan imo.

Roaring Moon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Outrage
this other set is actually something i really really like about :roaring-moon:. scarf is something i really like mainly because of how it can perform a lot of roles without being a one time sweeper. It has a lot of defensive utility i really like so thats cool. :gholdengo: check and ok ish :ogerpon-wellspring: check is always nice and i like that. maybe you could be a bit more dishonest but i really think this goober or this set at least is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
oh and one more larping session. after larping until the 1500s i managed to larp my way back and got a little lazy climbing. turns out 1790 is actually like top 50 now for some reason

Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 200 HP / 144 Atk / 48 Def / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Dragon Dance
- Acrobatics
- Taunt

so i wanted to use acro :roaring-moon:. mainly because i thought it was neat and could be interesting over ground. its def neat. i swapped roost for taunt though. taunt lets me be really cheeky with a lot of defensive stuff like toxic eq :gliscor: and annoy :ting-lu: and variants of :dondozo:. it also let me be annoying to roar :zamazenta: and :corviknight:. i kept bulky here because imo bulky>max offensive due to its sheer defensive survivability and bulk. tbh i remembered there being a bulky taunt tera fly moon but i think i was misremembering stuff. def really useful in certain scenarios but i do like ground>flying still since getting a tclap weakness is super annoying. plus i didnt have eq so :kingambit: ate my ass. still fun. still on the fence.

https://pokepast.es/2f9bd1104543be20
this team got silly top 22 because i didnt wanna climb anymore. also a silly replay of moon only doing smth the last minute cuz i didnt bother taking other replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2708111231-xynum5q2s4qwkh3f6hbnlrc0cj015yxpw
another replay of moon going lebron though
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2708519674-y0evp5pf0nk1xnykbtysqh0bnq3rieipw
 
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I am not that good as an SV OU player but here is my Roaring Moon + Band Scizor team that i was managed to reach rank 11 with (my alt name is True Mugetsu 1). This team also features wack set such as AV Zapdos to handle Ghol, Nasty Plot Torns and stuff, very fun to use.
Team:
:Roaring_Moon: :Scizor: :Great_Tusk: :Hatterene: :Zapdos: :Pecharunt:
https://pokepast.es/802caf20d15dd398

Some replays:
Defeat top 1 player once:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2707904433-uuktwqxkllsxnoklf9gxowbxh4qlh2qpw

Ludwig Frog’s Lokix + Torn:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2707911993-wrohf99je5oau0di5cys5msgaip6dp3pw

Defeat that top 1 dude again:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2707913980-hg3wuyyuor87v5x3g915003ggv25xsxpw

Random Glim HO:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2707982394-qtm061m0f6lbqms5e2fqx1dywadworkpw

MoonWalk Sun:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2707984149-k75a7fv7r39s8ouktam96f9uv0133ropw?p2

My love with SV OU is still intense after those 4,5 years. Hope u guys have fun in this limited 3-week suspect test.
 

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Hi just a disclaimer here at the start: DO NOT MESSAGE MY DISCORD YET, my discord account got hacked about 10 days ago, i did not click on any link or fell for any scam, they just straight up hacked me specifically and bypassed my two factor auth. I am in contact with discord staff and higher ups who got back to me, they told me to wait some time so they can clear my account of the things the hacker put on it, and they told me not to make a new account yet, so please kick me from all discord side servers for the time being, i will ask for an invite back once i get my account back.

Okay, onto the fun part, moon is back, and i would love to share my thoughts, first and foremost i have a big team dump to share with you all in this post, of the last few ideas i had in the moon meta before its ban, and some new ones + revamped ones.

I know that roaring might seem strong to everybody, but this meta feels more interactive, like lax said in his new video, part of the "skill" in sv ou, was limiting the moon, with that gone, lots of uninteractive, cheesy, and even screens structures became instantly viable, and while i would like roaring to make a return to OU, i see now that its impossible, because everybody, including the 4 people that convinced me that moon was okay, have now turned against it, and is now pro ban, after just a few days of it returning to ou, ive seen a switchup from around 90% of people i know, only a few of my friends like blunder/goobius caesar/vert and maybe mr. Sire clod, are still pro moon, myself included, usually for a pokemon to be banned u need a 60% ban vote majority, and only a 40% dnb minority to keep it in ou, but here, they did not quickdrop moon, and for a mon to be freed from ubers, we need a 60% dnb majority, which is 1.5x the normal amount of dnb votes required for a mon not to get banned from ou, and just judging by public perception of roaring right now and the tone people who have already gotten reqs are using in the conversations im having with them, and judging by the few death threats i have been receiving from a few people who i thought were friends that i told that i was voting dnb on roaring, unless a miraculous dnb rally occurs, there is about a 99% chance this pokemon stays in ubers.

Now, i have always been one to experiment in the builder, and 99% of smogon have not seen most of them, the ones that do are the ones facing me in private games on the high ladder on these alts:
shikuleo, pyukumuku guru, barracades, switchbladess, 21 bombs, c0ldsn0w, relic stone, amaterus, half life heroes

Now, onto the teams, please note that a much larger team dump is coming after the test is over with, if moon stays, itll be the rest of the moon meta ideas i had with lots of cool discoveries, and if it goes, itll be the moonless meta ideas i had cooked up recently along with new discoveries and experimental ideas, i will group by category, categories are standard, experimental, and broken.

https://pokepast.es/9eba1c69524f8022 (broken)
Im a big fan of trick room, and i decided to test my semi trick room sun with moon over zama and it works super well, you can choose your matchup, screens for some matchups, tr for others, with a cress screen into tr tect luna combo.

https://pokepast.es/51761b2c61c5ebf1 (experimental)
Multi hit spam dual removal scarf tusk, with physdef specs volcanion, volcanion doesnt need the spatk, can kill stuff without it, so i invested into bulk, the concept of this team is to have multiple pokemon with multi hit move, i.e. beat up weavile which is a set i pioneered in gen 8 ou, and scale shot dnite which is an old blimax sv ou set which still works.

https://pokepast.es/2556fd2b57c71c1d (experimental)
This is an idea i will get into further detail with it the future post with the bigger dump, but the concept here is, that sometimes, setters for proto and quark drive conditions are limited, while good leads or even pivots exist that can set these conditions more consistently, now, i know that ninetales is good, but deoxys is already an HO lead, and it can be able to set the sun, it allows you to run other items besides booster energy on the paradox pokemon on regular offense, whose extra damage from this boost may determine games.

https://pokepast.es/31d3ee40bb11b191
(experimental)
Now, the concept of this team, is to have a consistent way to halt fatter structures, while being anti offense, speed moon is anti offense, a good set made by vert, people have said its more inconsistent now, but if given longevity over the duration of a game, can a team's counterplay withstand the set? , specs bolt is a breaker, that stands as a water resist alongside moon, now i know that you see the scarf great tusk, this can only be acceptable on specific conditions, there is another rocker, and a secondary/primary removal option that isnt tusk, in this case its gweezing, calm mind cress for defensive utility, and skarm being the rocker, skarm can afford to drop iron defense IF and only if u have ways to deal with gambit, i.e. tusk bolt, and ways to halt dragonite, i.e. steel cress + gweez + scarf tusk, which allows you to be dual hazard here, this team is not perfect, but you dont often see a bulkier team with a booster energy anti offense + speed mon + a choiced breaker with ways to defeat fatter structures.

https://pokepast.es/1f784151bf9a2689 (standard/experimental)
Classic, now, this team was used by me to beat myjava in spl in 2024, ive fallen in love with clod balance ever since, ive been pioneering these clod skarm balances since then, which have been very consistent on the ladder and since that time ive found some amazing discoveries, that i will get into on the description of the other balance teams i will drop in this post. This team is a simple hazard stack with double ghost and ways to halt cinderace, my setup + pivot samurott set allows you to force progress gradually throughout the game.

https://pokepast.es/5d46230efea137f0 (experimental)
This is one of the adaptations of the clod balance structure that ive been developing through the later half of sv ou, one of the balance adaptations being cloak clefable, which defeats nuzzle pain split hatt, being immune to nuzzle para and the heal block from psynoise, u can effectively spread knock, and deal damage with moonblast while u inevitably get up hazards, chesnaught is a new variant, it is a spiker that forces a gambit tera, which allows u to run corv as a steel bird WITHOUT running samurott hisui, it allows me to freely run physdef poison volcanion to properly deal with wellspring, what makes this discovery effective, is that chesnaught has bullet proof, which is immune to cinderace's pyro ball, along with being immune to moves like shadow ball from ghold, focus blast and sludge bomb from darkrai etc, and of course, my more popular adaptation as of late, boots weavile, which is amazing when given longevity and hazard support (given you hit triple axel), unlucky players like sire clod and pinkacross may call weavile bad bc of triple axel, but their luck is simply not up to par with us average luck individuals (i missed draco in olt this year and power whip in olt last year ik im unlucky roast me for it lol), anyway, if u havent noticed, weavile has substitute, which is a recent adaptation of these balance teams, substitute on some boots pokemon may be effective in halting threats like gambit and bolt by subbing on their priority, now, low kick forces a gambit tera, if its terad and weavile is already chipped you sub on the sucker, it was fast idef corv before moon dropped, 220 speed, with iron defense press brave bird, to check all gambits that arent ghost, to allow sub weavile to defeat ghost gambit, and haze clodsire to halt cress more consistently than amnesia, since im scared of getting crit, i guess u could say im "hypoCRITical" for calling out the unlucky eggs like sire clod and fearing hax in the same paragraph. Anyway, hope you all like this one.

https://pokepast.es/88d915331cf91248 (experimental)
This is going to be in the post dedicated to balance aswell possibly with some final adjustments, this is a team i built in the moonless meta, but i was informed that it works well in the moon meta aswell, contrary to people saying moon limits balance, the adaptation on this team, is the boots dual dragon, to halt stuff like ogerpon, and apply pressure on others, dual draco meteor can be lethal to offense teams and bulky offense teams, each dragon fulfilling a different role, hydrapple being able to stop tealpon and stuff like garg along with threatening stall, bolt being able to thunderclap and revenge gambit so that weavile does not have to sub, you all should test taunt on this bolt, it would be a good progress forcer to stop unaware clodsire's death grip on the tier's special attackers rn.

https://pokepast.es/bd56d288bbee1dc4 (experimental)
I actually made this team the day before moon got banned and it tested really well, was good at stopping moon, did well vs offense, and was a good stack, amoonguss was amazing in testing, but after the ban i kinda put this team to bed, until about 2 weeks ago, i gave it to this guy who tests my teams (and talks shit on ladder for some reason), his name is agent zyn7, or azy, he told me this team was still strong af on the moonless meta's ladder, aka the ladder right before this test dropped, the concept behind this is to have a semistall structure that doesnt have unaware dondozo, and has a solid progress forcing defensive core, amoonguss hard walls wellspring and valiant, spreads dual status, skeledirge is unaware, defeats stuff like iron moth, samu spreads spikes so skarm or gliscor dont have to, and it allows skarm to run rocks and gliscor to be sd to own other fat structures, + being good vs offense, i was supposed to load this game 3 in my olt series which probably wouldve won be the game based on the gliscor alone, but losing game 1 and not game 2 (due to me playing bad), i was thrown off, and i said fuck it i need to establish clodsire, anyway, enjoy the team, works really well.

https://pokepast.es/75bd92152e838de0 (standard)
just a good old scizor offense, you may recognize this from wcop 2024 when i brought a gren variant of it vs yovan, but to my surprise, this team has been one of the most consistent moonless meta teams ive ever used, and the best part is, it gets even better with moon around, it features one of my older sv goofy sets from 2023 dual wingbeat flying scizor, initially used in the volcarona meta to beat skeledirge, which was common for goug and volc, now used to halt idef zama and tusk or atleast force their teras, technician makes each hit 60bp, with stab thats a stab brave bird, and most of all its a pivot, this team being pivot spam, specs pivot bolt as a breaker, pivot samu, pivot lando, pivot scizor, on these hyper offense teams, i learned that they require either a strong choiced breaker, or multiple taunts, to blow past the unaware mons, grass sub moth here which surprisingly works really well vs stuff like garg and wellspring, and of course valiant being valiant, try to position samu early vs stall.

https://pokepast.es/488ec02fa15e9793 (broken)
I adapted my cresselia screens to be friendly to the moon meta, it now has defensive ghold over gambit, and roaring over bolt, this version is arguably stronger because the dual hazard red card glimmora now has strong spinblock/fogblock support in gholdengo, allowing you to always be in a dominant position especially since roaring extinguishes cinderace structures and ran them out of the tier.

https://pokepast.es/3decb5152ae9a260 (experimental)
Another adaptation of balance, is putting cresselia on it, obviously lol, now, if u saw how i qualified OLT pre dlc in 2023, i was using clod cress garg hoopa, now, it was when i saw SIRE CLOD use cress on the structure again during an olt playoffs game, the idea slipped into my head that cress on balance may be still good(OBVIOUSLY LOL WHY WOULD IT NOT BE), which means all who told me that structure was ass all those years ago, has to now eat their words, anyway, tealpon is Jesus as usual, which is why i spam it, i mentioned hoopa, on the other balance adaptations, i have a scarf hoopa variant thats really broken with garg clod, but ill save that for the other post, s/o CTC for putting me on game with scarf hoopa.

https://pokepast.es/b4676c11565b8620 (standard)
This one is a classic, my old scizor deoxys offense,
Sciz being good in moon meta, tera electric val, plot split deoxys which is a set me and slainey/skymin3 first started using in archaludon meta, is still relevant today, even good in moonless meta, heals up on Lu and blissey, auto wins vs fat (if ur smart), and bulky roost moon, this was during the bulky roost moon wave, where everyone was using bulky moon, i decided to put extra physdef evs on it, just to be funny, and troll encore mons like tinkaton lmao, s/o Pais, but yeah, outside of that, nothing special here, not a meta defining team just a standard offense with scizor.

https://pokepast.es/60a2472d15744f7b (experimental)
Another adaptation of balance with garg and crown, but this time with gweez, and mandibuzz, which work really well together, this is a hybrid meta team, works in both moon meta and moonless meta, future sight crown + band zama, haze clod, tera water lame garg, and cloak clod, being another adaptation, which also beats garg and psynoisers. Give it a spin, its not a perfect team but will rack up wins.

https://pokepast.es/2a61687e184adffd (experimental)
I think i figured out the formula on how to use this team effectively, it has to be used in rotation with a team that absolutely destroys cresselia, because cresselia will destroy this, if you are loading this on the ladder, have an anti cress team in rotation, other than that, this team defeats every structure outside of sd power whip knock off wellspring, and it has to be both whip and knock, now, the idea behind this team, is to have a garg hstack, with a fat ghost that absolutely destroys cind structures, which i think i achieved here, sinistcha as a blocker, spikes Lu rocks garg, and cress isnt auto win vs you, u salt cure it and ruination spam with tera steel u wall it, then weavile picks it off, the offensive moltres is another adaptation of balance that ive been experimenting with, it got me THREE wins in wcop, also using sub, as i stated above, sub boots mons on balance/boots spam is the future of the archetype, and also, with a team effort, latin america actually won wcop this year, which i am still very proud of.

https://pokepast.es/12d0cb51e501f0c7 (broken, i guess)
One of the last moon meta teams i ever built, at the time of building, i did not know how good it was because it underperformed in testing but i realised it was just me not properly taking the time to learn to pilot it, the idea was, a sun with momentum + triple removal, and 2 breakers with 1 being + speed, i opted for spatk specs water wake + speed dark cb moon, eject corv, a scream tail to spread wishes and encore annoying sun threats like sub protect kyurem, a bulk up speed tusk to round off the team, double spin + fog, torkoal tusk + corv, moon can be outrage if u want, i like iron head for auto revenge kill vs val.

https://pokepast.es/5ea870749935d677 (standard af with 1 random off meta mon)
Another one of the last moon meta teams i ever made, with band mamo and the standard glim ghold moon offense core, i believe not long after moon's ban, my friend spook/rza, he built a gambit team with mamo that looks just like this he had gambit over moon, that was really cool, if moon doesnt stay yall ask him for his version.

https://pokepast.es/523c92f4c0de82b5 (experimental)
Hazards + taunt spam, hazards + multiple taunt/tera ghost fast mons to deny removal + court change, but the weakness is hatterene, u can run skill swap on deo to patch it up, but pain split is so good id rather have it in rotation with an anti hatt structure aka a cloak clef balance or a heatran team. I have teams last gen with this concept too but in this gen its just better because its a hazard centric meta, theres an iron boulder Vert like version without moon that may drop in my post if moon doesnt stay.

https://pokepast.es/50951f8d36970ba5 (standard)
Very standard hazards + ghold offense with moon, very vert looking team, similar to the one finch posted, shuca tera fire gambit which btw is good at revenging moon and reversing molt matchup.

https://pokepast.es/3bbf35507bfa08da (standard)
Twave ghold + hazards, banded dnite dd booster moon dragon spam offense, btw dnite got better somehow in the moon meta, its way stronger to me than roaring.

https://pokepast.es/45a777771ca26749 (broken)
This team is really good, you know i love these av prim specs bolt pech offenses, i made this in moon meta, replaced the weav with darkrai since moon got banned, but the team has been very good since, band weav is arguably better in moonless meta too but mixed darkrai better vs fat, corv may be able to run fog, helm pech+ boots tusk, av whirlpool prim, bolt for breaking, this team is called "Pious Reflection" now, this was the previous version with the previous name.

https://pokepast.es/99bce202e364b759 (broken)
New scizor cress offense, with specs bolt and ogerpon, along with fat roost dd moon, just a nasty core all around, might be slightly iron moth weak.

https://pokepast.es/3b0e3680d8a0548f (broken)
Av prim cm cress pech sciz moon offense, just a nasty core all around, there is a version 2 with an alternative cress set: https://pokepast.es/738cd0a9053c762a
Slightly weaker vs stall but better vs ghold zap structures.

https://pokepast.es/68ac6075e81bd3f4 (experimental)
An attempt to make psyspam consistent, by sacrificing hatt for a more consistent moveslot, my old expanding agili booster crown set from the goug mega that would nuke gouging with a single expanding on the switch after i agility, still works well and possibly works in moonless meta asw, deoxys being helmet + tera fight to halt hazards/samu, and be an abuser, orb zama, dd moon. U can find the v2 of this on Joey's website, he used it in a video, manual terrain.

https://pokepast.es/8bd5ee3e4e47ba39 (experimental)
This is a moonless meta team but i was informed that it worked well in the moon meta aswell, it features another application of the sub boots strategy on these boots spams, in this case its the kyurem, fast timid encore whirlpool prim is cool too, you use that to encore stuff like bulky cress, gambit, etc, was ghost pech but since moon, made it fairy, hazard stack + fast fat ghost concept, always works.

Well, these are the teams, in the near future, or towards the end of the gen later next year, i will drop some more experimental ideas and go into details my process behind them, these may include:
- Boots webs araquanid + offensive jolly max attack sd gliscor boots spam - to slow the threats like wellspring and booster mons for the offensive gliscor to sd and sweep.

- Semi-Manual electric terrain/sun, u saw one example here with the deoxys sunny day lead, on standard offense or bulky structures, 1 pivot or cleric that sets these conditions (sun/terrain), can activate the quark or proto on on the breaker, like a specs valiant, say tusk/specs val/gking/pult/gambit/rotom-w, slap terrain as a 4th on rotom, now u can set up a 4 turn endgame valiant sweep, the same can be applied to proto atk tusk, https://pokepast.es/31b66dfe665f232b - for example here on one of my best teams, heatran sets the sunny day, now tusk all of a sudden can temporarily break corv and other fat structures with little penalty. This can be experimented with on balance structures too if u wanna run boots on proto or quark mons like bolt and moth(which will be able to safely run tspikes whirlwind without fearing hazards), or on HO like grassy terrain, sunny day moth + booster tera grass cm bolt, with solarbeam etc.

- Herb Spam Offense, i.e, dual mental herb, say manaphy + gambit on rain screens, to lure encore ogers, or even on reg ho and screens ho, mental herb spam is an effective anti encore concept, u can take it further and run all out herb spam, mirror herb copies boosts, like on darkrai and zama, it can copy tealpon boost, power herb can be used on glimm, white herb on polteageist/hawlucha, i challenge lax to run a team with all 4 herbs. (mirror herb, mental herb, power herb, white herb).

- Resist Berry Spam Offense, Shuca/Colbur/Rindo/Occa etc, these resist berries are underexplored and should be used more. I saw a user on showdown effectively using this, colbur on sinistcha, shuca on gweezing, im gonna try to develop a consistent structure with it.

- Webs with multiple speedboosting mons like speed tusk, i actually have a webs sample with this u can type /rfaq webs in ou room to find it, the idea behind this is, speedbooster mons on offense is common, and isnt reliant on webs, remember, if you have a gimmick that isnt consistent, u can make it consistent by building a team with said gimmick that does NOT rely on said gimmick, scalenite/darkrai/ghold/glimm/speed tusk, doesnt rely on webs at all, but still abuses it well.

- Defiant Spam + boots spam hazard stack, stuff like boots defiant oger, + band g-zap, g-zap being unique in the sense that its a breaker that is immune to spikes but isnt weak to rocks, which allows it to run band on boots spam structures, the structure im working on with this is Lu/pech/g-zap/teal/volcanion/tink, if it wasnt evident from last gen and at some points in this gen, i LOVE volcanion, i will try to properly finish and test this team.

- Semi Tailwind on a standard/consistent structure with a cool breaker, its an unfinished concept i wanted to try, see my olt game 1 vs empo, i brought semi tailwind sun, remember the formula for gimmicks, i will say it for a third time at the end of this post, if you have a gimmick that is not consistent, you can make it consistent by building a consistent team or taking a consistent structure that blends the gimmick in but does NOT rely on it. Sun already needs an eject mon that resists ground and an encore mon, whimsicott fulfills those roles + sets tailwind, BO can run rotom wash, rotom wash doesnt HAVE to run wisp, it can run terrain to enable specs val and give it a speed boost.

- Knock Absorber Spam Balance, admittedly, something i am not great at but am actively working on being better with it, which is building fatter structures with multiple knock absorbers, some include: clef/gliscor/corv/skarm/steel or poison tera levitate users like cress and latios/reuniclus

Theres a couple more ideas i have but you have the gist, i will drop teams with each of these ideas before the gen ends hopefully next year, i spend more time in the builder than actually playing, its actually a stress relieving hobby for me, the harder the meta, the more fun it is for me, i do this for every fairy gen, ORAS/SM/SS/SV.

Oh, and a couple notes to remember when building, the key to making a gimmick successful is to put the gimmick on a consistent team that doesnt rely on it, when you have an idea or mon, make a list of things that beat it, and choose ur next pokemon by picking what beats the most on that list, repeat till u have 5 team members, then have a checklist of essentials to check off, add the 6th based on what ur lacking, and most of all test and adjust along the way, pivots are important u cant be hard switching everything, Priority is important too, when running fat structures, u either run priority or unaware, or both, one is mandatory, u dont have to delete an entire structure when a single pokemon gets banned, u can just remove the checks/change the sets for said banned pokemon, and add more tools to fight against the legal mons in the meta, when looking for niche pokemon to use, double check what it does and have valid reasons for using it over other stuff, say, avalugg, has sturdy and can iron press, zama can do that but live every attack, so useless, but if u double check its movepool, it gets mirror coat(doesnt get counter but it gets mirror coat nintendo moment rofl), sturdy boots mirror coat can be useful, nobody can get a guaranteed mirror coat off while being an iron press mon, then u can heal it up with healing wish or wishflip. Gweez can neutralise abilities like gliscor, cress can tera and adapt its sets, cress is like nubl but is relevant in ou, check the lower tiers, theres useful resources, gastrodon has a unique property, a sticky hold mon that resists make it rain and can take shadow balls, a balance can be made with that, a boots mon that completely stops scarf dengo without penalty is interesting. Most of all when building offense, have a strategy to chip teams, dont slap them together, and on balance, have good physical and special walls PLUS a special setup sweeper like hydrapple, or boots cm volt switch bolt, and a physical sweeper like sd samu or weav. If u are a person that doesnt like trial and error, building aint for u. Ur gonna have failed teams or hit a block, play random battles for inspiration. Most importantly, if ur not having fun, just stop playing the game and take a break, come back when its fun.

Well, that's all i have to say, its alot, a bigger post is coming where i detail my ideas for teams later on, still felt the need to leave the community with something until then, shouldve dropped this post way sooner, just never had the motivation until now, as i was dealing with some family issues and other struggles irl. One day, before i retire from mons (which tbh aint anytime soon), my biggest goal for mons is winning an OLT, its a tour made for ladder grinders like myself, couldnt do it this year will try harder next year, eventually its gonna happen, its inevitable, even if i have to get humbled a million more times. Oh and shoutout to BIG lax your new press ting lu video has hilariously turned over 80% of the unban moon supporters i know to ban supporters and did the opposite of what your title intended LOL.

Anyway try the teams, give me feedback, im open to all criticism, ill be on the ps alt "pyukumuku guru" , u can find me there, while my discord is temporarily down, pce.
 
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Storm Zone said:
Hi just a disclaimer here at the start: DO NOT MESSAGE MY DISCORD YET, my discord account got hacked about 10 days ago, i did not click on any link or fell for any scam, they just straight up hacked me specifically and bypassed my two factor auth. I am in contact with discord staff and higher ups who got back to me, they told me to wait some time so they can clear my account of the things the hacker put on it, and they told me not to make a new account yet, so please kick me from all discord side servers for the time being, i will ask for an invite back once i get my account back.

Okay, onto the fun part, moon is back, and i would love to share my thoughts, first and foremost i have a big team dump to share with you all in this post, of the last few ideas i had in the moon meta before its ban, and some new ones + revamped ones.

I know that roaring might seem strong to everybody, but this meta feels more interactive, like lax said in his new video, part of the "skill" in sv ou, was limiting the moon, with that gone, lots of uninteractive, cheesy, and even screens structures became instantly viable, and while i would like roaring to make a return to OU, i see now that its impossible, because everybody, including the 4 people that convinced me that moon was okay, have now turned against it, and is now pro ban, after just a few days of it returning to ou, ive seen a switchup from around 90% of people i know, only a few of my friends like blunder/goobius caesar/vert and maybe mr. Sire clod, are still pro moon, myself included, usually for a pokemon to be banned u need a 60% ban vote majority, and only a 40% dnb minority to keep it in ou, but here, they did not quickdrop moon, and for a mon to be freed from ubers, we need a 60% dnb majority, which is 1.5x the normal amount of dnb votes required for a mon not to get banned from ou, and just judging by public perception of roaring right now and the tone people who have already gotten reqs are using in the conversations im having with them, and judging by the few death threats i have been receiving from a few people who i thought were friends that i told that i was voting dnb on roaring, unless a miraculous dnb rally occurs, there is about a 99% chance this pokemon stays in ubers.

Now, i have always been one to experiment in the builder, and 99% of smogon have not seen most of them, the ones that do are the ones facing me in private games on the high ladder on these alts:
shikuleo, pyukumuku guru, barracades, switchbladess, 21 bombs, c0ldsn0w, relic stone, amaterus, half life heroes

Now, onto the teams, please note that a much larger team dump is coming after the test is over with, if moon stays, itll be the rest of the moon meta ideas i had with lots of cool discoveries, and if it goes, itll be the moonless meta ideas i had cooked up recently along with new discoveries and experimental ideas, i will group by category, categories are standard, experimental, and broken.

https://pokepast.es/9eba1c69524f8022 (broken)
Im a big fan of trick room, and i decided to test my semi trick room sun with moon over zama and it works super well, you can choose your matchup, screens for some matchups, tr for others, with a cress screen into tr tect luna combo.

https://pokepast.es/51761b2c61c5ebf1 (experimental)
Multi hit spam dual removal scarf tusk, with physdef specs volcanion, volcanion doesnt need the spatk, can kill stuff without it, so i invested into bulk, the concept of this team is to have multiple pokemon with multi hit move, i.e. beat up weavile which is a set i pioneered in gen 8 ou, and scale shot dnite which is an old blimax sv ou set which still works.

https://pokepast.es/2556fd2b57c71c1d (experimental)
This is an idea i will get into further detail with it the future post with the bigger dump, but the concept here is, that sometimes, setters for proto and quark drive conditions are limited, while good leads or even pivots exist that can set these conditions more consistently, now, i know that ninetales is good, but deoxys is already an HO lead, and it can be able to set the sun, it allows you to run other items besides booster energy on the paradox pokemon on regular offense, whose extra damage from this boost may determine games.

https://pokepast.es/31d3ee40bb11b191
(experimental)
Now, the concept of this team, is to have a consistent way to halt fatter structures, while being anti offense, speed moon is anti offense, a good set made by vert, people have said its more inconsistent now, but if given longevity over the duration of a game, can a team's counterplay withstand the set? , specs bolt is a breaker, that stands as a water resist alongside moon, now i know that you see the scarf great tusk, this can only be acceptable on specific conditions, there is another rocker, and a secondary/primary removal option that isnt tusk, in this case its gweezing, calm mind cress for defensive utility, and skarm being the rocker, skarm can afford to drop iron defense IF and only if u have ways to deal with gambit, i.e. tusk bolt, and ways to halt dragonite, i.e. steel cress + gweez + scarf tusk, which allows you to be dual hazard here, this team is not perfect, but you dont often see a bulkier team with a booster energy anti offense + speed mon + a choiced breaker with ways to defeat fatter structures.

https://pokepast.es/1f784151bf9a2689 (standard/experimental)
Classic, now, this team was used by me to beat myjava in spl in 2024, ive fallen in love with clod balance ever since, ive been pioneering these clod skarm balances since then, which have been very consistent on the ladder and since that time ive found some amazing discoveries, that i will get into on the description of the other balance teams i will drop in this post. This team is a simple hazard stack with double ghost and ways to halt cinderace, my setup + pivot samurott set allows you to force progress gradually throughout the game.

https://pokepast.es/5d46230efea137f0 (experimental)
This is one of the adaptations of the clod balance structure that ive been developing through the later half of sv ou, one of the balance adaptations being cloak clefable, which defeats nuzzle pain split hatt, being immune to nuzzle para and the heal block from psynoise, u can effectively spread knock, and deal damage with moonblast while u inevitably get up hazards, chesnaught is a new variant, it is a spiker that forces a gambit tera, which allows u to run corv as a steel bird WITHOUT running samurott hisui, it allows me to freely run physdef poison volcanion to properly deal with wellspring, what makes this discovery effective, is that chesnaught has bullet proof, which is immune to cinderace's pyro ball, along with being immune to moves like shadow ball from ghold, focus blast and sludge bomb from darkrai etc, and of course, my more popular adaptation as of late, boots weavile, which is amazing when given longevity and hazard support (given you hit triple axel), unlucky players like sire clod and pinkacross may call weavile bad bc of triple axel, but their luck is simply not up to par with us average luck individuals (i missed draco in olt this year and power whip in olt last year ik im unlucky roast me for it lol), anyway, if u havent noticed, weavile has substitute, which is a recent adaptation of these balance teams, substitute on some boots pokemon may be effective in halting threats like gambit and bolt by subbing on their priority, now, low kick forces a gambit tera, if its terad and weavile is already chipped you sub on the sucker, it was fast idef corv before moon dropped, 220 speed, with iron defense press brave bird, to check all gambits that arent ghost, to allow sub weavile to defeat ghost gambit, and haze clodsire to halt cress more consistently than amnesia, since im scared of getting crit, i guess u could say im "hypoCRITical" for calling out the unlucky eggs like sire clod and fearing hax in the same paragraph. Anyway, hope you all like this one.

https://pokepast.es/88d915331cf91248 (experimental)
This is going to be in the post dedicated to balance aswell possibly with some final adjustments, this is a team i built in the moonless meta, but i was informed that it works well in the moon meta aswell, contrary to people saying moon limits balance, the adaptation on this team, is the boots dual dragon, to halt stuff like ogerpon, and apply pressure on others, dual draco meteor can be lethal to offense teams and bulky offense teams, each dragon fulfilling a different role, hydrapple being able to stop tealpon and stuff like garg along with threatening stall, bolt being able to thunderclap and revenge gambit so that weavile does not have to sub, you all should test taunt on this bolt, it would be a good progress forcer to stop unaware clodsire's death grip on the tier's special attackers rn.

https://pokepast.es/bd56d288bbee1dc4 (experimental)
I actually made this team the day before moon got banned and it tested really well, was good at stopping moon, did well vs offense, and was a good stack, amoonguss was amazing in testing, but after the ban i kinda put this team to bed, until about 2 weeks ago, i gave it to this guy who tests my teams (and talks shit on ladder for some reason), his name is agent zyn7, or azy, he told me this team was still strong af on the moonless meta's ladder, aka the ladder right before this test dropped, the concept behind this is to have a semistall structure that doesnt have unaware dondozo, and has a solid progress forcing defensive core, amoonguss hard walls wellspring and valiant, spreads dual status, skeledirge is unaware, defeats stuff like iron moth, samu spreads spikes so skarm or gliscor dont have to, and it allows skarm to run rocks and gliscor to be sd to own other fat structures, + being good vs offense, i was supposed to load this game 3 in my olt series which probably wouldve won be the game based on the gliscor alone, but losing game 1 and not game 2 (due to me playing bad), i was thrown off, and i said fuck it i need to establish clodsire, anyway, enjoy the team, works really well.

https://pokepast.es/75bd92152e838de0 (standard)
just a good old scizor offense, you may recognize this from wcop 2024 when i brought a gren variant of it vs yovan, but to my surprise, this team has been one of the most consistent moonless meta teams ive ever used, and the best part is, it gets even better with moon around, it features one of my older sv goofy sets from 2023 dual wingbeat flying scizor, initially used in the volcarona meta to beat skeledirge, which was common for goug and volc, now used to halt idef zama and tusk or atleast force their teras, technician makes each hit 60bp, with stab thats a stab brave bird, and most of all its a pivot, this team being pivot spam, specs pivot bolt as a breaker, pivot samu, pivot lando, pivot scizor, on these hyper offense teams, i learned that they require either a strong choiced breaker, or multiple taunts, to blow past the unaware mons, grass sub moth here which surprisingly works really well vs stuff like garg and wellspring, and of course valiant being valiant, try to position samu early vs stall.

https://pokepast.es/488ec02fa15e9793 (broken)
I adapted my cresselia screens to be friendly to the moon meta, it now has defensive ghold over gambit, and roaring over bolt, this version is arguably stronger because the dual hazard red card glimmora now has strong spinblock/fogblock support in gholdengo, allowing you to always be in a dominant position especially since roaring extinguishes cinderace structures and ran them out of the tier.

https://pokepast.es/3decb5152ae9a260 (experimental)
Another adaptation of balance, is putting cresselia on it, obviously lol, now, if u saw how i qualified OLT pre dlc in 2023, i was using clod cress garg hoopa, now, it was when i saw SIRE CLOD use cress on the structure again during an olt playoffs game, the idea slipped into my head that cress on balance may be still good(OBVIOUSLY LOL WHY WOULD IT NOT BE), which means all who told me that structure was ass all those years ago, has to now eat their words, anyway, tealpon is Jesus as usual, which is why i spam it, i mentioned hoopa, on the other balance adaptations, i have a scarf hoopa variant thats really broken with garg clod, but ill save that for the other post, s/o CTC for putting me on game with scarf hoopa.

https://pokepast.es/b4676c11565b8620 (standard)
This one is a classic, my old scizor deoxys offense,
Sciz being good in moon meta, tera electric val, plot split deoxys which is a set me and slainey/skymin3 first started using in archaludon meta, is still relevant today, even good in moonless meta, heals up on Lu and blissey, auto wins vs fat (if ur smart), and bulky roost moon, this was during the bulky roost moon wave, where everyone was using bulky moon, i decided to put extra physdef evs on it, just to be funny, and troll encore mons like tinkaton lmao, s/o Pais, but yeah, outside of that, nothing special here, not a meta defining team just a standard offense with scizor.

https://pokepast.es/60a2472d15744f7b (experimental)
Another adaptation of balance with garg and crown, but this time with gweez, and mandibuzz, which work really well together, this is a hybrid meta team, works in both moon meta and moonless meta, future sight crown + band zama, haze clod, tera water lame garg, and cloak clod, being another adaptation, which also beats garg and psynoisers. Give it a spin, its not a perfect team but will rack up wins.

https://pokepast.es/2a61687e184adffd (experimental)
I think i figured out the formula on how to use this team effectively, it has to be used in rotation with a team that absolutely destroys cresselia, because cresselia will destroy this, if you are loading this on the ladder, have an anti cress team in rotation, other than that, this team defeats every structure outside of sd power whip knock off wellspring, and it has to be both whip and knock, now, the idea behind this team, is to have a garg hstack, with a fat ghost that absolutely destroys cind structures, which i think i achieved here, sinistcha as a blocker, spikes Lu rocks garg, and cress isnt auto win vs you, u salt cure it and ruination spam with tera steel u wall it, then weavile picks it off, the offensive moltres is another adaptation of balance that ive been experimenting with, it got me THREE wins in wcop, also using sub, as i stated above, sub boots mons on balance/boots spam is the future of the archetype, and also, with a team effort, latin america actually won wcop this year, which i am still very proud of.

https://pokepast.es/12d0cb51e501f0c7 (broken, i guess)
One of the last moon meta teams i ever built, at the time of building, i did not know how good it was because it underperformed in testing but i realised it was just me not properly taking the time to learn to pilot it, the idea was, a sun with momentum + triple removal, and 2 breakers with 1 being + speed, i opted for spatk specs water wake + speed dark cb moon, eject corv, a scream tail to spread wishes and encore annoying sun threats like sub protect kyurem, a bulk up speed tusk to round off the team, double spin + fog, torkoal tusk + corv, moon can be outrage if u want, i like iron head for auto revenge kill vs val.

https://pokepast.es/5ea870749935d677 (standard af with 1 random off meta mon)
Another one of the last moon meta teams i ever made, with band mamo and the standard glim ghold moon offense core, i believe not long after moon's ban, my friend spook/rza, he built a gambit team with mamo that looks just like this he had gambit over moon, that was really cool, if moon doesnt stay yall ask him for his version.

https://pokepast.es/523c92f4c0de82b5 (experimental)
Hazards + taunt spam, hazards + multiple taunt/tera ghost fast mons to deny removal + court change, but the weakness is hatterene, u can run skill swap on deo to patch it up, but pain split is so good id rather have it in rotation with an anti hatt structure aka a cloak clef balance or a heatran team. I have teams last gen with this concept too but in this gen its just better because its a hazard centric meta, theres an iron boulder Vert like version without moon that may drop in my post if moon doesnt stay.

https://pokepast.es/50951f8d36970ba5 (standard)
Very standard hazards + ghold offense with moon, very vert looking team, similar to the one finch posted, shuca tera fire gambit which btw is good at revenging moon and reversing molt matchup.

https://pokepast.es/3bbf35507bfa08da (standard)
Twave ghold + hazards, banded dnite dd booster moon dragon spam offense, btw dnite got better somehow in the moon meta, its way stronger to me than roaring.

https://pokepast.es/45a777771ca26749 (broken)
This team is really good, you know i love these av prim specs bolt pech offenses, i made this in moon meta, replaced the weav with darkrai since moon got banned, but the team has been very good since, band weav is arguably better in moonless meta too but mixed darkrai better vs fat, corv may be able to run fog, helm pech+ boots tusk, av whirlpool prim, bolt for breaking, this team is called "Pious Reflection" now, this was the previous version with the previous name.

https://pokepast.es/99bce202e364b759 (broken)
New scizor cress offense, with specs bolt and ogerpon, along with fat roost dd moon, just a nasty core all around, might be slightly iron moth weak.

https://pokepast.es/3b0e3680d8a0548f (broken)
Av prim cm cress pech sciz moon offense, just a nasty core all around, there is a version 2 with an alternative cress set: https://pokepast.es/738cd0a9053c762a
Slightly weaker vs stall but better vs ghold zap structures.

https://pokepast.es/68ac6075e81bd3f4 (experimental)
An attempt to make psyspam consistent, by sacrificing hatt for a more consistent moveslot, my old expanding agili booster crown set from the goug mega that would nuke gouging with a single expanding on the switch after i agility, still works well and possibly works in moonless meta asw, deoxys being helmet + tera fight to halt hazards/samu, and be an abuser, orb zama, dd moon. U can find the v2 of this on Joey's website, he used it in a video, manual terrain.

https://pokepast.es/8bd5ee3e4e47ba39 (experimental)
This is a moonless meta team but i was informed that it worked well in the moon meta aswell, it features another application of the sub boots strategy on these boots spams, in this case its the kyurem, fast timid encore whirlpool prim is cool too, you use that to encore stuff like bulky cress, gambit, etc, was ghost pech but since moon, made it fairy, hazard stack + fast fat ghost concept, always works.

Well, these are the teams, in the near future, or towards the end of the gen later next year, i will drop some more experimental ideas and go into details my process behind them, these may include:
- Boots webs araquanid + offensive jolly max attack sd gliscor boots spam - to slow the threats like wellspring and booster mons for the offensive gliscor to sd and sweep.

- Semi-Manual electric terrain/sun, u saw one example here with the deoxys sunny day lead, on standard offense or bulky structures, 1 pivot or cleric that sets these conditions (sun/terrain), can activate the quark or proto on on the breaker, like a specs valiant, say tusk/specs val/gking/pult/gambit/rotom-w, slap terrain as a 4th on rotom, now u can set up a 4 turn endgame valiant sweep, the same can be applied to proto atk tusk, https://pokepast.es/31b66dfe665f232b - for example here on one of my best teams, heatran sets the sunny day, now tusk all of a sudden can temporarily break corv and other fat structures with little penalty. This can be experimented with on balance structures too if u wanna run boots on proto or quark mons like bolt and moth(which will be able to safely run tspikes whirlwind without fearing hazards), or on HO like grassy terrain, sunny day moth + booster tera grass cm bolt, with solarbeam etc.

- Herb Spam Offense, i.e, dual mental herb, say manaphy + gambit on rain screens, to lure encore ogers, or even on reg ho and screens ho, mental herb spam is an effective anti encore concept, u can take it further and run all out herb spam, mirror herb copies boosts, like on darkrai and zama, it can copy tealpon boost, power herb can be used on glimm, white herb on polteageist/hawlucha, i challenge lax to run a team with all 4 herbs. (mirror herb, mental herb, power herb, white herb).

- Resist Berry Spam Offense, Shuca/Colbur/Rindo/Occa etc, these resist berries are underexplored and should be used more. I saw a user on showdown effectively using this, colbur on sinistcha, shuca on gweezing, im gonna try to develop a consistent structure with it.

- Webs with multiple speedboosting mons like speed tusk, i actually have a webs sample with this u can type /rfaq webs in ou room to find it, the idea behind this is, speedbooster mons on offense is common, and isnt reliant on webs, remember, if you have a gimmick that isnt consistent, u can make it consistent by building a team with said gimmick that does NOT rely on said gimmick, scalenite/darkrai/ghold/glimm/speed tusk, doesnt rely on webs at all, but still abuses it well.

- Defiant Spam + boots spam hazard stack, stuff like boots defiant oger, + band g-zap, g-zap being unique in the sense that its a breaker that is immune to spikes but isnt weak to rocks, which allows it to run band on boots spam structures, the structure im working on with this is Lu/pech/g-zap/teal/volcanion/tink, if it wasnt evident from last gen and at some points in this gen, i LOVE volcanion, i will try to properly finish and test this team.

- Semi Tailwind on a standard/consistent structure with a cool breaker, its an unfinished concept i wanted to try, see my olt game 1 vs empo, i brought semi tailwind sun, remember the formula for gimmicks, i will say it for a third time at the end of this post, if you have a gimmick that is not consistent, you can make it consistent by building a consistent team or taking a consistent structure that blends the gimmick in but does NOT rely on it. Sun already needs an eject mon that resists ground and an encore mon, whimsicott fulfills those roles + sets tailwind, BO can run rotom wash, rotom wash doesnt HAVE to run wisp, it can run terrain to enable specs val and give it a speed boost.

- Knock Absorber Spam Balance, admittedly, something i am not great at but am actively working on being better with it, which is building fatter structures with multiple knock absorbers, some include: clef/gliscor/corv/skarm/steel or poison tera levitate users like cress and latios/reuniclus

Theres a couple more ideas i have but you have the gist, i will drop teams with each of these ideas before the gen ends hopefully next year, i spend more time in the builder than actually playing, its actually a stress relieving hobby for me, the harder the meta, the more fun it is for me, i do this for every fairy gen, ORAS/SM/SS/SV.

Oh, and a couple notes to remember when building, the key to making a gimmick successful is to put the gimmick on a consistent team that doesnt rely on it, when you have an idea or mon, make a list of things that beat it, and choose ur next pokemon by picking what beats the most on that list, repeat till u have 5 team members, then have a checklist of essentials to check off, add the 6th based on what ur lacking, and most of all test and adjust along the way, pivots are important u cant be hard switching everything, Priority is important too, when running fat structures, u either run priority or unaware, or both, one is mandatory, u dont have to delete an entire structure when a single pokemon gets banned, u can just remove the checks/change the sets for said banned pokemon, and add more tools to fight against the legal mons in the meta, when looking for niche pokemon to use, double check what it does and have valid reasons for using it over other stuff, say, avalugg, has sturdy and can iron press, zama can do that but live every attack, so useless, but if u double check its movepool, it gets mirror coat(doesnt get counter but it gets mirror coat nintendo moment rofl), sturdy boots mirror coat can be useful, nobody can get a guaranteed mirror coat off while being an iron press mon, then u can heal it up with healing wish or wishflip. Gweez can neutralise abilities like gliscor, cress can tera and adapt its sets, cress is like nubl but is relevant in ou, check the lower tiers, theres useful resources, gastrodon has a unique property, a sticky hold mon that resists make it rain and can take shadow balls, a balance can be made with that, a boots mon that completely stops scarf dengo without penalty is interesting. Most of all when building offense, have a strategy to chip teams, dont slap them together, and on balance, have good physical and special walls PLUS a special setup sweeper like hydrapple, or boots cm volt switch bolt, and a physical sweeper like sd samu or weav. If u are a person that doesnt like trial and error, building aint for u. Ur gonna have failed teams or hit a block, play random battles for inspiration. Most importantly, if ur not having fun, just stop playing the game and take a break, come back when its fun.

Well, that's all i have to say, its alot, a bigger post is coming where i detail my ideas for teams later on, still felt the need to leave the community with something until then, shouldve dropped this post way sooner, just never had the motivation until now, as i was dealing with some family issues and other struggles irl. One day, before i retire from mons (which tbh aint anytime soon), my biggest goal for mons is winning an OLT, its a tour made for ladder grinders like myself, couldnt do it this year will try harder next year, eventually its gonna happen, its inevitable, even if i have to get humbled a million more times. Oh and shoutout to BIG lax your new press ting lu video has hilariously turned over 80% of the unban moon supporters i know to ban supporters and did the opposite of what your title intended LOL.

Anyway try the teams, give me feedback, im open to all criticism, ill be on the ps alt "pyukumuku guru" , u can find me there, while my discord is temporarily down, pce.
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ya got any more of them skarm + clod joints *Tyrone Biggums meme*
 
also idc what you say Weavile is literally dogshit I have said all gen long I will never bring Weavile to a tournament

Then I went against my own words and brought a Weavile to OLT playoffs and on the final turn of the game, the literal only turn that i clicked that trash move, that PIECE OF GARBAGE double axeled yea fuck you buddy we leaving you behind in SS
 
sire clod said:
also idc what you say Weavile is literally dogshit I have said all gen long I will never bring Weavile to a tournament

Then I went against my own words and brought a Weavile to OLT playoffs and on the final turn of the game, the literal only turn that i clicked that trash move, that PIECE OF GARBAGE double axeled yea fuck you buddy we leaving you behind in SS
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Was that the same triple axel you clicked into full HP unterad ceruledge in week 1 or a different one?
 
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Unrelated to any discussion going on - but post Tera Blast ban, there were some funny Gimmick sets that popped up in my head like DD Loaded Dice Scale Tera Blast Fire Taunt Hydreigon that can no longer be used and it makes me sad :(

Perhaps hindsight is 20/20 after all.
 
logging back in only to find a suspect test to unban a broken pokemon and feels like futile medical care at this point. It's been four years of people complaining about how stressful this generation has been, where even regular, non-legendary, non-mythical Pokémon turned out to be completely broken and total threats saturation.

Wind and Waves could very well be released in the November window, so we might have to wait another year. At this point I'm afraid that the next time i log in, to find an espathra retest
 
Magcargo said:
Unrelated to any discussion going on - but post Tera Blast ban, there were some funny Gimmick sets that popped up in my head like DD Loaded Dice Scale Tera Blast Fire Taunt Hydreigon that can no longer be used and it makes me sad :(

Perhaps hindsight is 20/20 after all.
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We could have used rock polish meteor beam Tera blast glimmora but nobody wanted to explore Tera blast enough outside of dragonite and kyurem, sad.
 
Napoli Burns said:
logging back in only to find a suspect test to unban a broken pokemon and feels like futile medical care at this point. It's been four years of people complaining about how stressful this generation has been, where even regular, non-legendary, non-mythical Pokémon turned out to be completely broken and total threats saturation.

Wind and Waves could very well be released in the November window, so we might have to wait another year. At this point I'm afraid that the next time i log in, to find an espathra retest
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1794155720945.png

Boy do I have news for you
 
How are you guys building around Dragonite? Everyone keeps saying that "It's broken" and "should be banned" but I always find it difficult to build a team with Dragonite that doesn't immediately fold to any decent offensive structure given how common Dnite's weaknesses are (+It's super Tera reliant bc it has no good STAB moves outside of Scale Shot sets)
 
Ivanpmd said:
How are you guys building around Dragonite? Everyone keeps saying that "It's broken" and "should be banned" but I always find it difficult to build a team with Dragonite that doesn't immediately fold to any decent offensive structure given how common Dnite's weaknesses are (+It's super Tera reliant bc it has no good STAB moves outside of Scale Shot sets)
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Nobody has said “dragonite is broken” since Tera blast ban.

Anyways the best dnite set is Tera ground Dd roost eq ice spinner. Second best roost dd espeed eq, although the latter is walled by corv you just stack teammates to overwhelm corv. And unless it’s idef it’s set up fodder if it loses helmet
 
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