hi everyone it's been a bit since i've posted in this thread, i wanted to hold out until lcpl + advltl finished before i dropped some stuff for the new abra-less meta. this is gonna be written kinda loosely fair warning zzzz. just some general thoughts, overall im enjoying this meta a lot tbh, it's miles better than with abra (bar in hell) and feels not super centralized around much besides sitrus as an item and thief/knock/subtox interactions which i don't think is a bad thing. might be personal opinion and i know sitrus as an item has been talked about here and there but i think there's a lot of skill (in-game and in the builder) in navigating these sitrus interactions, especially with anorith being as strong as it is as the best anti-subtox mon as well as the surge in viability of poison-immune mons with abra being banned (gastly, koffing, magnemite but to a lesser extent).
anyway teams woo (and some musings) i've made a few edits here and there to some of these teams since tbh i was still learning the new meta as lcpl went on but i think ive settled on a decent idea of how i like to approach the tier by the end of advltl.
LCPL :goomy: (click on sprites for paste!)
w2 vs poseidonwrath
:anorith::snubbull::wailmer::elekid::trapinch::exeggcute:
my early builds often used pinch as a crutch just because that was always what i was most comfortable playing during abra meta but i realized over time that there's a lot of nice things you can do with pinch-less but uhhh get ready for some real pinchslop for the next few teams. i figured this week we'd just use broken cb ano and this is just a super standard altho perhaps a bit outdated 6 with a good amount of defensive backbone. there's some interesting moves/stat spreads i kinda wanted to highlight here tho:
Anorith @ Choice Band
Ability: Battle Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Rock Blast
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Brick Break
- Ancient Power
hp fly isn't something i'd say is spammable or should be common in the slightest and i kinda told scion to bring it just cuz "it would be so funny if it landed" but dressed up as something more appetizing for my manager.. but normally fighters do just check ano really well and it still maintains the super effective hit vs grasses so its a cute option if your lines want that kind of move. this team is rather weak to machop since it can just win a tie vs eggy so thats kinda why i went with this.
Snubbull @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 36 Atk / 36 Def / 120 SpD /
196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Thief
for almost all of lcpl i built with 12 speed bull just because i mainly built teams that relied on bull for its physical checking duties (rather than special) and 1v1ing ability. getting the jump on opp bull (11 speed bull has become rather common these days) as well as mons like koffing, cacnea, and machop which can usually freely afford to hit 11 for "standard" bull speed is really big, especially since normally cac can just encore you into bulk up but instead u can now outspeed and ohko cac with +1 dedge. bull is just a really customizable mon ev and move-wise and this is just one way i got kinda creative with it.
Wailmer @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Water Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 120 SpA / 236 SpD / 116 Spe
Calm Nature
- Water Spout
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam
- Self-Destruct
i think ice beam should be used much much more, even on spdef. it lets wail pick up guarenteed kills on cacnea and exeggcute after hitting them with a water move on the swap, as well as lileep if you happen to be running specifically surf which are massive lines to hit. obv the whole icy wind interaction vs 20 speed elecs and gastly is cute and all but ice beam lets u be lethally self-sufficient in a different way which a team can really appreciate.
Exeggcute @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Atk / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 156 SpD / 36 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Psychic
- Explosion
i remember finding this calc out with naere during 2025 advpl:
-1 36+ Atk Exeggcute Explosion vs. 196 HP / 36 Def Snubbull: 23-28 (92 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
it's really potent on teams with physical wincons like bagon or agil doduo or whatever but also lets u keep up tempo vs bull if ur team is a bit weak to it and you need the power of boom instead of another bull-killing tool like bullet seed. good nature imo.
w3 vs Fragments
:anorith::chinchou::voltorb::snubbull::wailmer::ponyta:
this game had a lot of techs i really believed in (super fat ano, beam wail, ground pony) work out perfectly so i wanted to share it. i think super fat ano is a really interesting lead because its another lead that sucks vs opposing ano which is always scary to load but the way it flips the mu vs bull lileep and pony is so nice. beyond that there's not much too crazy abt this team, the team is notably kind of bad vs gastly so i think there's some re-working that's worth considering. i thought about running a thief elekid over voltorb but i think the team values having the hp ground elec so im not sure...
w4 vs Click>Think
:voltorb::wailmer::trapinch::exeggcute::ponyta::gastly:
this team is my most recent take on sun. i'm pretty high on sunnybeam pony at the moment, i think it has a lot of really great MUs especially against frailer gastly + 1 water teams. physdef wail is to check the ever-threatening bagon and i wanted to use torb lead to trade into annoying midgame mons like bull/pinch/lileep. gastly is just a great fit on these teams that kind of easily lose momentum vs faster waters like chinchou and staryu because it steals momentum and sitrus right back.
w5 vs David Watts
:staryu::cacnea::trapinch::gastly::snubbull::elekid:
starpinch is one of my favorite archetypes, with the obvious synergy being that staryu is a super threatening mon that ohko/2hkos basically everything at a speed tier only checked by the 20 elecs which pinch removes. the core is rather weak vs double elec / gastly though so it's far from spammable but you can build to have those games be winnable anyway. most of the stuff here is pretty standard, boom gastly and bug pinch to avoid being too weak to eggy. notable is ice thief sub kid who is considered a bit of null set these days with chou being spammed everywhere but i figured with gastly i could get away with it and the team really wants an elekid that's able to thief back into opposing gastly + pressure grasses so i went with this.
w6 vs Alder ST
:staryu::trapinch::houndour::wailmer::gastly::bagon:
wow its my sample. its more starpinch but with a houndour this time to larp as a gastly counter and a bagon to clean up endgames vs elecspam stuff. i really liked the double wisp when i built this, landing into pinch/lileep/bull makes bagon way harder to deal with lategame.
w7 vs shreyashhy
:cacnea::wailmer::chinchou::ponyta::snubbull::elekid:
this team wasn't made specifically for shrey but this game didn't end up mattering so we kinda just loaded something i made in an earlier week i think? salac cacnea is pretty silly, very good mon. extremely standard sets on this besides the uncommon eq mixwail.
semifinals vs ElectricityCat
:snubbull::gastly::voltorb::wailmer::ponyta::mankey:
i thought this team was really cool but the lack of lategame physical backbone really bit this team in the ass.
maybe it'd be better with like gastly lead and back bu bull or something..? but heavy offense with back mankey (especially with torb to trade into pinch as the most common prio mon in the tier) i really liked. subpunch bull is pretty inconsistent but it feels so good when u land it vs like a lileep lead or something.
ADVLTL :beautifly:
w1 vs shreyashhy
:staryu::trapinch::houndour::wailmer::gastly::voltorb:
i don't think the voltorb here makes much sense actually in hindsight i'm not sure what i was thinking when i put it here. it should probably be a mon that switches more comfortably into wailmer spout or a lategame mon.. i think any of like
:cacnea: /
:chinchou: / or even like
:oddish: (u can click on the sprites here for quick edits of the paste) probably work much better here. something more self-sufficient than bagon here since i went with salac hound instead of wisp sitrus.
w2 vs David Watts
:lileep::wailmer::gastly::voltorb::elekid::snubbull:
somehow i hadn't built with double 20 elec until this point which is definitely a really strong way to build. mostly pretty standard sets here except for the midgame boom-less toxthief torb and the gastly which i think you could maybe drop thief or maybe ice on for boom to make it less "passive". i kinda stand by the 3a coverage of psy / ice / grass tho, it felt pretty important to be able to pick off fighters and cacnea and chou in my head and thief is always broken.
w3 vs Baoba
:onix::anorith::ponyta::gastly::elekid::wailmer:
one of my favorite teams i've made recently, this rockspam idea is super fun. i think you could very realistically make this a ground voltorb over elekid since landing boom into trapinch is super nice for salac anorith, but i figured onix is pretty likely to be able to land a toxic into trapinch so i'd rather use elekid for its power which ended up being extremely relevant in-game and i do prefer my elekid build.
w4 vs Alder ST
:koffing::gastly::trapinch::staryu::elekid::magnemite:
bellsprout wow its more starpinch... this one's a way more interesting configuration tho. thief elekid + magnemite to deal with gastly and also as the sun checks alongside bugpinch. i knew i had to be proactive vs early spikes with this team so gastly has boom and the lead completely denies spikes. as for magnemite:
Magnemite @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 120 Def / 76 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Toxic
- Substitute
magnemite as a mon is really interesting right now. gastly and koffing have surged in viability and you'll see them quite frequently. magnemite is the only viable steel in the tier and that combined with its electric typing and subtox makes it really good at "walling" these mons and making progress off of them. magnemite also does a lot of other nice builder stuff such as being a doduo check, a chlorophyll sweeper/common bagon stopper (especially with hp ice), and a lileep abuser which is a very rare trait only really matched by the also rare machop. however, it's far from a mon that can be spammed. hp ground on opposing elecs and even the aforementioned koffing and rarely gastly make checking magnemite usually quite easy. mag is mostly a mon that u put on a team either to abuse consistent sets your opp uses or to fill a very specific hole your team needs which i felt more of the latter here. hp grass is standard on mag because chou is extremely common these days but i think with gastly and grass thief sub kid you can justify hp ice here which is much nicer to have vs sun which this mag really needs to be (i had it as hp grass during the game vs alder but in hindsight i think hp ice is 100% better here).
w5 vs PoseidonWrath
:anorith::koffing::chinchou::elekid::ponyta::wailmer:
wanted to use cb ano again here just cuz i hadn't for a while. i kinda just slapped this together, i knew i wanted to use some kind of double water because my recent 1 water + gastly core usage was really high and i wanted to avoid getting got by rain or something similar. the team probs doesn't wanna play vs gastly pinch. i did really like this wail set though:
Wailmer @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Water Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Atk / 76 Def / 116 SpA / 236 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Self-Destruct
hp-grassless wail i think is really nice alongside 1-2 other water checks like
:cacnea: /
:exeggcute: /
:chinchou: /
:staryu: that aren't gastly because they don't love dealing with opposing chinchou and they can take on the role of checking opposing wail while your own wail lures grasses, chou, and checks opp bagon which can be hard for these kinds of teams that stack a lot of types that bagon kind of farms.
semifinals vs PoseidonWrath
:voltorb::wailmer::snubbull::onix::elekid::exeggcute:
after the game vs him in main season i knew i wanted to use something a lot more well-rounded defensively so i ended up on this team which i also really really like. grass-less wail is supported by utility eggy who just does so much good for this team (checks opp wail, chloro sweepers, gastly). tox lead torb has incredible synergy with this team, trading into early grasses or toxicing/trading into opposing snubbull and lileep for the 2 fast sub mons and generally supporting the lack of huge burst damage on this team. onix in general is a mon i really enjoy right now because it outspeeds chou, checks anorith, and has so many good boom lure lines / tox-abusing sub lines.
ok teamdump over, i just wanna talk about some general meta stuff.
good mons, should be used more if not already
:gastly: - i think gastly is one of the most builder-warping mons rn. it's very easy to carelessly build a team with weaker special threats that lets gastly just thief constantly vs it. it's also very customizable; tbolt / giga / psy / hp ice / hp water / boom / thief / wisp are all extremely amazing moves that can fill whatever defensive role you need gastly to tailor itself to. i would probably rank gastly very high on a vr, below like wailmer bull elekid torb probably but i can see myself putting it at 5 or so pretty easily.
:anorith: - everyone who plays this tier knows how oppressive of an offensive force anorith can be. sd sitrus, sd salac, cb, and knock utility are all incredible progress making/cleaning sets and it's one of the most lethal leads because of how it can posture vs many common leads like torb, chou, cacnea, lileep, gastly, fires, and snubbull depending on the set. anorith is the main reason i use staryu and ponyta as much as i do since they have fast ohkos on it. however, i actually think it's a really good presence in the tier. rock blast being a multi-hit move and ano being somewhat easy to put on a team that makes every team have to respect it in the builder is really beneficial in a tier where people complain about subtox. there's lots of ways to build around anorith, i think the most annoying aspect about it in the builder is the lead mu and turn 1 but i like that it's a primary driver of more fast-paced games and interactive gameplay.
:koffing: - incredibly annoying mon. wisp + sludge + boom is annoying enough to switch around (koffing mirrors can usually lead to the koffings just handshaking and trading into each other) and access to hidden power coverage, thief, and a very customizable ev spread makes it even more obnoxious to deal with. it's the best snubbull check in the tier which is a pretty powerful trait and it can ev to live water spout from wailmer and blow it up. being able to use the very common snubbull as an entry point and be a massive threat to cacnea (lead) and even lileep means it gets to get going very early in a game, making lines with it pretty consistent. it's also the best check to fight + ghost coverage in the tier.
:onix: - this is my underrated pick out out of all these very common meta mons lmao. onix is really really fun to build with. its most notable trait is that it can ev to always beat every ano set, lead or not. beyond this though, its one of the few mons in the tier that has a fast ohko on chinchou, completely walls ground sub boom voltorb,, and the 4th move (tox / boom) is just incredible for lines on offense. both of these moves let onix play very similarly to a voltorb (with a very nice, different defensive profile!), luring and chipping down grasses / snubbull / trapinch but with an added wailmer target profile. onix is also a fantastic partner of tox torb for this reason, as it picks right up where voltorb left off and continues down the breaking/lure train. onix being a wail / bull lure is amazing for physical partners like bagon / larvitar / salac anorith / agility doduo. very very cool mon that should be used and explored a lot more. i think it's so fun to visualize lines with it in the builder.
mons i'm a bit less keen on rn
:chinchou: - obviously chinchou is a good mon, it has great coverage and it's an elec that can hard into waters and threaten them back and it's an elec that can never be trapped by pinch. it does a lot of good things, but one thing i can't stand about it is how it's just complete gastly fodder. letting in gastly for free and letting it thief something is just so annoying and pushes you in specific building directions i'm not particularly fond of using constantly. i'm also higher on eq wail and all elecs at this point should be running coverage to deal with chou, god forbid they have thief to be even more annoying. chou is still consistently more useful offensively and defensively than a lot of mons in this tier but like blehhhhhh it's maybe my least favorite water resist to use in the tier.
:ponyta: - okay i love ponyta but i had a phase where i really used this mon on most of my teams and i think i've cooled down on it a lot since. like chou, it's still an undeniably good mon but i think recent meta trends and even anti-meta trends make it unappealing to constantly spam. pony's main benefit in the builder is as an anorith revenge killer + universal sun check, especially with hp ground. but i think picking a coverage move + a mandatory reliance on overheat as a stab move for anorith is what makes pony feel so icky.
there's like 2 main pony sets right now, subtox and sunnybeam.
subtox seems strong on paper but it can be completely blanked by gastly/koffing with thief thanks to them both eating 1 overheat and then the following spa drop making the 1v1 poor. this kind of sucks too because pony outspeeding gastly and being wisp immune on paper makes it appealing to switch into gastly but instead you just kind of end up wasting hp and gastly can just thief something later. it doesnt help that overheat is literally your only move to click into gastly too, since it's immune to hp ground, hp grass, body slam, and toxic.
sunnybeam lets you push advantage immediately really hard vs water swaps + have an ohko button vs fat neutral mons like gastly and snubbull. you're kind of forced to run hp ground last on this set i feel like because otherwise you're completely walled by fires. which kind of leads to an issue with this set: it's extremely abusable by fast-paced setup stuff. pony is a mon you really want to stick around because it defensively checks anorith and sun sweepers, which can both be major issues lategame. however, when the last mon ends up being something like a bagon or larvitar, it's incredibly painful not having an immediately strong move to rip into them when you could have built your team to have more proactive denial tools like boomspam or whatever. it's still very possible to beat these guys if u preserve like a physdef wail or a snubbull or whatever but sometimes you're kind of just lastmonguessing and its a real pain. especially since these mons are often overloaded by bagon/larv's teammates which pony doesn't want much to deal with either. pony just doesn't do a good job of simplifying advantage endgames i think is the simplest way to put it? because the stuff that abuses pony is REALLY scary in endgames and it sucks being put in that spot.
ty if you read this whole thing, also wanted to thank
Shing for always putting up a ton of resources that myself and many others were able to learn from and being someone that kept me really interested in this tier and who i always looked forward to playing in tours. ty for being the goat, this tier will miss you a lot.
