Is Synthesis on the table? It's by far the most common 50% recovery on Grass types.
If Synthesis is not an option, I say wait for art; I suspect we'd end up going with Recover, but other options could fit depending on the design.
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CAP 38 - Part 10 - Moveset Discussion
- Thread starter Spammernoob
- Start date
If Synthesis is not an option, I say wait for art; I suspect we'd end up going with Recover, but other options could fit depending on the design.
i think synthesis is probably our recovery flavor. we're a grass-type, we're guaranteed some sort of flower somewhere in the design, i feel like it's the obvious option. my one worry is that it might alter how we interact with our own and opposing weather, which is a major part of ubers that eternatus has very little interaction with. weather isn't omnipresent over here like it is there, but malaconda at least is good enough that this should be taken into account
this is a. really long one. I'm sorry in advance to anyone who decides to read this in its entirety.
:landorus:
:gholdengo:, :kitsunoh: (if it traced Flower Veil): Mystical Fire will probably be used over Scorching Sands for slightly more power and/or a SpA decrease.
:kingambit:, :kitsunoh:: Scorching Sands will probably be used over Mystical Fire for burn.
:glimmora:, :iron moth:, :heatran: : OHKO'd by Scorching Sands.
:pecharunt:, :ramnarok: : Stay as a 2HKO through both Scorching Sands and Earth Power.
:ceruledge:, :mollux:, :slowking-galar:, all the Steel-types : Our chances improve from a 2HKO, but are still not guaranteed to OHKO.
:chuggalong: : An interesting case. Our chances improve to a guaranteed OHKO, but this is fragile enough to be broken by something as simple as Chuggalong putting 4 EVs into HP.
:ceruledge:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 124-146 (42.6 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 158-188 (54.2 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 33-39 (11.3 - 13.4%) -- possible 8HKO
:chuggalong:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chuggalong: 114-136 (49.3 - 58.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chuggalong: 146-174 (63.2 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chuggalong: 31-36 (13.4 - 15.5%) -- possible 7HKO
:gholdengo:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 134-158 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 172-204 (54.6 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 144-170 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 42.2% chance to 2HKO
:iron moth:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 228-272 (75.7 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 292-348 (97 - 115.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 31-36 (10.2 - 11.9%) -- possible 9HKO
:kingambit:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 142-168 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 182-216 (53.3 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 152-180 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
:kitsunoh:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 150-178 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 192-226 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 160-190 (48.9 - 58.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
:mollux:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Mollux: 180-212 (45.8 - 53.9%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Mollux: 228-272 (58 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Dry Skin Mollux: 30-35 (7.6 - 8.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
:glimmora:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Glimmora: 292-348 (78.9 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Glimmora: 380-448 (102.7 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Glimmora: 39-46 (10.5 - 12.4%) -- possible 9HKO
:heatran:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 236-280 (73 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 304-360 (94.1 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
:pecharunt:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 138-164 (36.3 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 178-210 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 74-88 (19.4 - 23.1%) -- possible 5HKO
:ramnarok:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 132-156 (36.5 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 164-196 (45.4 - 54.2%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 34-41 (9.4 - 11.3%) -- possible 9HKO
:ramnarok-radiant:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 136-160 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 174-206 (48.1 - 57%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 73-86 (20.2 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
:slowking-galar:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 84-100 (21.3 - 25.3%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 108-128 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 45-54 (11.4 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO
Earth Power allows us to deny a Clangorous Soul from :chuggalong:, OHKO :iron moth:, :glimmora:, and :heatran:, and chip everything else for more damage than Scorching Sands can.
Fun side note: LO :ceruledge: serves as a good revenge killer to defensive CAP38, as it can heal more HP from Bitter Blade (even with us having 252/252+ physical bulk) than we can dish out.
Rubberducking is a technique usually used in software engineering. A software engineer may explain code to someone, and in doing so, gains a better understanding of it and its flaws.
I originally wrote this section with the intent to explain why Earth Power should be put on, but my thoughts on it have shifted since beginning to write this two days ago. It appears to me that Earth Power allows us to shift offensive CAP38's matchup against multiple defensive targets from a 2HKO to an OHKO. Meanwhile, it does not provide as much use to defensive sets, as it has a worse secondary effect and the power increase is less impactful. At this stage, I'd rather we start low and have lots of checks, and then (if needed) raise our floor so that we're more viable in the current meta. For this reason, I'd say we should not start out with Earth Power on the 1.0 release.
:deoxys-speed:
Regarding utility:
People tossed up a bunch more utility options since I last posted, so here are my thoughts on them.
:smeargle:
The interesting ones!
:malamar:Topsy-Turvy: Less severe. I like this option a lot, though I think making 2 good CAPs in a row (for the same meta!) that punish setup is not that good an idea. Physical setup sweepers seem to be rarer compared to in OU because of Obliteryx, and I don't think we should do the same for the special side.
:victreebel:Acid Spray: It does seem like it could be worth it. Defensive CAP38 take more than 2 turns to KO a lot of bulky threats, and Acid Spray is a great way to either threaten out possible checks or deal a lot more damage if they choose to stay in. Offensive CAP38, on the other hand, KOs most threats in 2 turns or less, rendering Acid Spray less usable.
:mollux:Clear Smog: Despite my thoughts on Heart Swap and Topsy-Turvy, I think Clear Smog could actually be a good add-on. Unlike the other two, it does not punish the user for setting up besides the turn cost. I do see an unlikely world in which Clear Smog is the main utility move (Prankster Haze Tomohawk shows how powerful fast stat removal is.)
:spidops:Phazing: I think this could work. With phazing, the only part to take into account is the bulk. I can see a variation of the offensive set using this to force out opponents, but it's a powerful tool on the defensive set. However, I do think the phazing in question should come in the form of Circle Throw, as I think we would need some way to punish offensive sets for running phazing. We already threaten out most Fairies, so Dragon Tail is out of the question, as are Roar and Whirlwind as they are only blocked by Gholdengo. This also serves to improve Dragapult's matchup against us.
:dedenne:Recycle: Concerns about using a dexited move aside, I don't think Meteor Beam would be used much on defensive sets. Recycle seems to buff offensive sets while offering little to no value to defensive ones (the biggest thing I can see with it is Recycle + Sitrus Berry, and Recover already gives us reliable healing).
:cosmoem:Cosmic Power / Stockpile: This is like the textbook example of boosting mostly the defensive set and providing little utility to the offensive one. I think this is low enough impact that it can be run on 1A sets, but not 2A. Whether or not people would want to run 1A sets is another question.
:pajantom:Partial Trapping: I can see this thriving on defensive sets that run off of chip damage (Toxic, Leech Seed, Salt Cure, etc.), especially since it prevents them removing Leech Seed and Salt Cure, as well as resetting the Toxic timer. I can also see this used on offensive sets to trap opponents into a bad matchup, though I think that interaction is niche enough that it's not really something to worry about.
:Raticate:Super Fang: An interesting way for CAP38 to chip half health from major Pokemon, but is that something we have to worry about? Our STABS + coverage already chunk a lot of HP from opponents, as my Scorching Sands calcs show. It wouldn't give a lot of utility for offensive sets, so I'm not against it, but I don't see a reason to put it on either.
:mew:
My own ideas!
:deoxys-defense:Teleport: It's an interesting utility that allows defensive sets to slow pivot out despite our great Speed. Meanwhile, the offensive set would not want to risk getting hit for a lot of damage when pivoting, so they'd likely choose to manually switch instead. Not really Etern-like, but pretty funny.
:wyrdeer:Psyshield Bash: It provides a small amount of chip while boosting our physical defense. In addition, it fully fails against :Obliteryx: switching in=, allowing us to not give it an unintended stat boost. The downside, of course, is the 90% accuracy, which may cause us to miss the stat boost at a critical moment.
:tsareena:Trop Kick / Chilling Water: It allows us to lower opponents' Atk with greater reliability (though at a much lower severity) than Scorching Sands, while (in the case of Chilling Water) providing extremely weak coverage.
:grimmsnarl:Spirit Break / Snarl: Same as above, except for SpA. I don't see this being used over Mystical Fire, except maybe Snarl on teams that are really fearing :dragapult:. I do want to put these options out here, though.
:swalot:Gastro Acid / Worry Seed: The poor man's :miasmaw:. Apart from that Pokemon, we don't really see any Pokemon that can mess with Abilities. Gastro Acid could provide some new angles to that, as we can disable and then switch into a better check for the now Ability-less Pokemon.
:comfey:
Regarding 50% Recovery
But could we do both Synthesis and Morning Sun? There is precedent for this: flower-based Pokemon like :cherrim:, :sunflora:, and the :Oddish: line all double up on Synthesis and either Morning Sun or Moonlight. I feel that if nothing else, this allows for added flavor and an extremely funny niche set where you can use a 50% recovery move up to 16 times. (This probably won't be run, it's not worth the 2 move slots. still really fun to think about though)
:landorus:
Okay, let's go over them.
:ceruledge:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 195-231 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 250-296 (85.9 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 52-61 (17.8 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
:chuggalong:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chuggalong: 179-213 (77.4 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chuggalong: 231-273 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 226-268 (71.7 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:gholdengo:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 211-250 (66.9 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 270-320 (85.7 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 226-268 (71.7 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:iron moth:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 364-432 (120.9 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
:kingambit:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 224-265 (65.6 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 289-341 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 239-283 (70 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
:kitsunoh:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 234-278 (71.5 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 304-359 (92.9 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 252-299 (77 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:mollux:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Mollux: 286-338 (72.7 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Mollux: 364-432 (92.6 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Dry Skin Mollux: 47-56 (11.9 - 14.2%) -- possible 8HKO
:glimmora:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Glimmora: 468-551 (126.4 - 148.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Glimmora: 62-73 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
:heatran:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 374-442 (115.7 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
:pecharunt:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 218-257 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 278-330 (73.1 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 117-138 (30.7 - 36.3%) -- 52.9% chance to 3HKO
:ramnarok:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 203-244 (56.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 265-312 (73.4 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 55-65 (15.2 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO
:ramnarok-radiant:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 213-252 (59 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 273-322 (75.6 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 114-135 (31.5 - 37.3%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO
:slowking-galar:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking-Galar: 179-213 (45.4 - 54%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking-Galar: 231-273 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking-Galar: 96-114 (24.3 - 28.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 195-231 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 250-296 (85.9 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 52-61 (17.8 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
:chuggalong:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chuggalong: 179-213 (77.4 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chuggalong: 231-273 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 226-268 (71.7 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:gholdengo:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 211-250 (66.9 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 270-320 (85.7 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 226-268 (71.7 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:iron moth:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 364-432 (120.9 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
:kingambit:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 224-265 (65.6 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 289-341 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 239-283 (70 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
:kitsunoh:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 234-278 (71.5 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 304-359 (92.9 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 252-299 (77 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:mollux:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Mollux: 286-338 (72.7 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Mollux: 364-432 (92.6 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Dry Skin Mollux: 47-56 (11.9 - 14.2%) -- possible 8HKO
:glimmora:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Glimmora: 468-551 (126.4 - 148.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Glimmora: 62-73 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
:heatran:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 374-442 (115.7 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
:pecharunt:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 218-257 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 278-330 (73.1 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 117-138 (30.7 - 36.3%) -- 52.9% chance to 3HKO
:ramnarok:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 203-244 (56.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 265-312 (73.4 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 55-65 (15.2 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO
:ramnarok-radiant:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 213-252 (59 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 273-322 (75.6 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 114-135 (31.5 - 37.3%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO
:slowking-galar:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking-Galar: 179-213 (45.4 - 54%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking-Galar: 231-273 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking-Galar: 96-114 (24.3 - 28.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO
:gholdengo:, :kitsunoh: (if it traced Flower Veil): Mystical Fire will probably be used over Scorching Sands for slightly more power and/or a SpA decrease.
:kingambit:, :kitsunoh:: Scorching Sands will probably be used over Mystical Fire for burn.
:glimmora:, :iron moth:, :heatran: : OHKO'd by Scorching Sands.
:pecharunt:, :ramnarok: : Stay as a 2HKO through both Scorching Sands and Earth Power.
:ceruledge:, :mollux:, :slowking-galar:, all the Steel-types : Our chances improve from a 2HKO, but are still not guaranteed to OHKO.
:chuggalong: : An interesting case. Our chances improve to a guaranteed OHKO, but this is fragile enough to be broken by something as simple as Chuggalong putting 4 EVs into HP.
Using these EVs to determine our damage output. I can see a world where we have some amount of SpA investment, but I'm too lazy to factor that in.
:ceruledge:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 124-146 (42.6 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 158-188 (54.2 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 33-39 (11.3 - 13.4%) -- possible 8HKO
:chuggalong:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chuggalong: 114-136 (49.3 - 58.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chuggalong: 146-174 (63.2 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chuggalong: 31-36 (13.4 - 15.5%) -- possible 7HKO
:gholdengo:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 134-158 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 172-204 (54.6 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 144-170 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 42.2% chance to 2HKO
:iron moth:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 228-272 (75.7 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 292-348 (97 - 115.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 31-36 (10.2 - 11.9%) -- possible 9HKO
:kingambit:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 142-168 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 182-216 (53.3 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 152-180 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
:kitsunoh:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 150-178 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 192-226 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 160-190 (48.9 - 58.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
:mollux:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Mollux: 180-212 (45.8 - 53.9%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Mollux: 228-272 (58 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Dry Skin Mollux: 30-35 (7.6 - 8.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
:glimmora:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Glimmora: 292-348 (78.9 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Glimmora: 380-448 (102.7 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Glimmora: 39-46 (10.5 - 12.4%) -- possible 9HKO
:heatran:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 236-280 (73 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 304-360 (94.1 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
:pecharunt:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 138-164 (36.3 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 178-210 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 74-88 (19.4 - 23.1%) -- possible 5HKO
:ramnarok:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 132-156 (36.5 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 164-196 (45.4 - 54.2%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok: 34-41 (9.4 - 11.3%) -- possible 9HKO
:ramnarok-radiant:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 136-160 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 174-206 (48.1 - 57%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ramnarok-Radiant: 73-86 (20.2 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
:slowking-galar:
0 SpA Venusaur Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 84-100 (21.3 - 25.3%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 108-128 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 45-54 (11.4 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO
Earth Power allows us to deny a Clangorous Soul from :chuggalong:, OHKO :iron moth:, :glimmora:, and :heatran:, and chip everything else for more damage than Scorching Sands can.
Fun side note: LO :ceruledge: serves as a good revenge killer to defensive CAP38, as it can heal more HP from Bitter Blade (even with us having 252/252+ physical bulk) than we can dish out.
Quick stop to discuss the secondary effect. 3/9 of Pokemon you gave as a primary target of Scorching Sands are simply immune to the 30% burn chance (as well as :kitsunoh: if it Traces our Flower Veil). Meanwhile, all except :ceruledge: are immune to poison from Sludge Bomb.
Rubberducking is a technique usually used in software engineering. A software engineer may explain code to someone, and in doing so, gains a better understanding of it and its flaws.
I originally wrote this section with the intent to explain why Earth Power should be put on, but my thoughts on it have shifted since beginning to write this two days ago. It appears to me that Earth Power allows us to shift offensive CAP38's matchup against multiple defensive targets from a 2HKO to an OHKO. Meanwhile, it does not provide as much use to defensive sets, as it has a worse secondary effect and the power increase is less impactful. At this stage, I'd rather we start low and have lots of checks, and then (if needed) raise our floor so that we're more viable in the current meta. For this reason, I'd say we should not start out with Earth Power on the 1.0 release.
:deoxys-speed:
Regarding utility:
People tossed up a bunch more utility options since I last posted, so here are my thoughts on them.
:weavile:
Also to DaddyBuzzwole: 1) we outspeed all Pokemon in both the status orb and single-use item categories, which means that their items don't get a chance to proc before being knocked off, and 2) I'm fairly certain Power Herb offensive CAP38 would also qualify.
:glimmora:
I also have the same problem with Rapid Spin. I don't want us to outspeed Scarf Darkrai / Ogerpon without a Scarf of our own.
I actually kinda agree with Spammernoob here. Knock Off does offer slight chip damage, but it can only be used once per opponent and only on a few opponents. Sure, Toxic does have a similar issue, but it has a lasting effect that eventually pressures the opponent to switch and reset the timer. I don't know if item removal can pressure anyone out, unless your opponent is really dependant on the item.
Also to DaddyBuzzwole: 1) we outspeed all Pokemon in both the status orb and single-use item categories, which means that their items don't get a chance to proc before being knocked off, and 2) I'm fairly certain Power Herb offensive CAP38 would also qualify.
:glimmora:
My problem with Mortal Spin is the fact that it automatically poisons the opponent, which denies us from both Scorching Sands burn and Toxic. While regular poison is a good status, it's definitely the least impactful of the three. I don't really care about the hazard game, and I would appreciate another remover, but the side effect is too much for me.
I also have the same problem with Rapid Spin. I don't want us to outspeed Scarf Darkrai / Ogerpon without a Scarf of our own.
:smeargle:
The interesting ones!
:manaphy:Heart Swap: It seems really funny and I can see a niche, but I don't want something like Obliteryx again where pitting any special attacking setup against it just results in boosting it.
:malamar:Topsy-Turvy: Less severe. I like this option a lot, though I think making 2 good CAPs in a row (for the same meta!) that punish setup is not that good an idea. Physical setup sweepers seem to be rarer compared to in OU because of Obliteryx, and I don't think we should do the same for the special side.
:victreebel:Acid Spray: It does seem like it could be worth it. Defensive CAP38 take more than 2 turns to KO a lot of bulky threats, and Acid Spray is a great way to either threaten out possible checks or deal a lot more damage if they choose to stay in. Offensive CAP38, on the other hand, KOs most threats in 2 turns or less, rendering Acid Spray less usable.
:mollux:Clear Smog: Despite my thoughts on Heart Swap and Topsy-Turvy, I think Clear Smog could actually be a good add-on. Unlike the other two, it does not punish the user for setting up besides the turn cost. I do see an unlikely world in which Clear Smog is the main utility move (Prankster Haze Tomohawk shows how powerful fast stat removal is.)
:spidops:Phazing: I think this could work. With phazing, the only part to take into account is the bulk. I can see a variation of the offensive set using this to force out opponents, but it's a powerful tool on the defensive set. However, I do think the phazing in question should come in the form of Circle Throw, as I think we would need some way to punish offensive sets for running phazing. We already threaten out most Fairies, so Dragon Tail is out of the question, as are Roar and Whirlwind as they are only blocked by Gholdengo. This also serves to improve Dragapult's matchup against us.
:dedenne:Recycle: Concerns about using a dexited move aside, I don't think Meteor Beam would be used much on defensive sets. Recycle seems to buff offensive sets while offering little to no value to defensive ones (the biggest thing I can see with it is Recycle + Sitrus Berry, and Recover already gives us reliable healing).
:cosmoem:Cosmic Power / Stockpile: This is like the textbook example of boosting mostly the defensive set and providing little utility to the offensive one. I think this is low enough impact that it can be run on 1A sets, but not 2A. Whether or not people would want to run 1A sets is another question.
:pajantom:Partial Trapping: I can see this thriving on defensive sets that run off of chip damage (Toxic, Leech Seed, Salt Cure, etc.), especially since it prevents them removing Leech Seed and Salt Cure, as well as resetting the Toxic timer. I can also see this used on offensive sets to trap opponents into a bad matchup, though I think that interaction is niche enough that it's not really something to worry about.
:Raticate:Super Fang: An interesting way for CAP38 to chip half health from major Pokemon, but is that something we have to worry about? Our STABS + coverage already chunk a lot of HP from opponents, as my Scorching Sands calcs show. It wouldn't give a lot of utility for offensive sets, so I'm not against it, but I don't see a reason to put it on either.
:mew:
My own ideas!
:deoxys-defense:Teleport: It's an interesting utility that allows defensive sets to slow pivot out despite our great Speed. Meanwhile, the offensive set would not want to risk getting hit for a lot of damage when pivoting, so they'd likely choose to manually switch instead. Not really Etern-like, but pretty funny.
:wyrdeer:Psyshield Bash: It provides a small amount of chip while boosting our physical defense. In addition, it fully fails against :Obliteryx: switching in=, allowing us to not give it an unintended stat boost. The downside, of course, is the 90% accuracy, which may cause us to miss the stat boost at a critical moment.
:tsareena:Trop Kick / Chilling Water: It allows us to lower opponents' Atk with greater reliability (though at a much lower severity) than Scorching Sands, while (in the case of Chilling Water) providing extremely weak coverage.
:grimmsnarl:Spirit Break / Snarl: Same as above, except for SpA. I don't see this being used over Mystical Fire, except maybe Snarl on teams that are really fearing :dragapult:. I do want to put these options out here, though.
:swalot:Gastro Acid / Worry Seed: The poor man's :miasmaw:. Apart from that Pokemon, we don't really see any Pokemon that can mess with Abilities. Gastro Acid could provide some new angles to that, as we can disable and then switch into a better check for the now Ability-less Pokemon.
:comfey:
Regarding 50% Recovery
Synthesis / Morning Sun, definitely. It allows us to gain a lot of HP when in or faced against a Sun team, and we already check most of the Pokemon in a Rain team. In addition, they just fit the flower and plant theme better than just Recover.
But could we do both Synthesis and Morning Sun? There is precedent for this: flower-based Pokemon like :cherrim:, :sunflora:, and the :Oddish: line all double up on Synthesis and either Morning Sun or Moonlight. I feel that if nothing else, this allows for added flavor and an extremely funny niche set where you can use a 50% recovery move up to 16 times. (This probably won't be run, it's not worth the 2 move slots. still really fun to think about though)
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I'm pretty confident we don't want our recovery to be nuked by Slowking-G clicking its pivoting move, so let's just do Recover...