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Pet Mod [PM LC] - Mix and Mega - Limited Supply [Slate 11 @ #361]

Results are in. Thank you to Athena for assisting with the tallying.
Snaquaza said:
:flamigo: :banettite:
Flamigo @ Banettite
82/115/74/75/64/90 -> 82/165/84/85/84/100
Ability: Scrappy -> Prankster
- Swords Dance
- Copycat
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat

Behold! The Pokemon I have been obsessed with and think would be a really fun addition to the metagame!

This Flamigo adds a really unique mechanic, as Banettite gives it the Prankster ability. This gives it access to Prankster Copycat and thus use any move with priority... if it was the last move used. You can try to revenge kill an opponent if they last used a move that is effective against them (and preferably physical), or you can try to clean up when the opposing team is low enough to be unable to deal with priority Brave Bird or Close Combat. However, to do this, you always need to use a 'slow' move first and if you want to set up a Swords Dance, this even requires two turns of 'setup'. All in all, it adds a highly dynamic Pokemon with a unique playstyle to the game. I hope you like it :).
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AthenaStrive9 said:
:sv/Ninetales-Alola::Lucarionite-Z::Lucario-Mega-Z:
Ninetales-Alola @ Lucarionite Z
73/67/75/81/100/109/505 -> 73/57/75/130/100/170/605
Snow Warning -> Aura Guard
- Moonblast
- Freeze-Dry
- Encore
- Nasty Plot

Ninetales-Alola functions as a devastating sweeper thanks to Lucarionite Z improving their special attack and speed. With Snow Warning prior to mega evolution and Aura Guard after, Ninetales will take little damage from contact moves that make up the majority of physical moves. Encore can be used to force out opponents using ineffective or passive moves, and is especially potent due to Ninetales's high speed after mega evolution. These tools give Ninetales ample opportunities to setup in front of physical attackers with Nasty Plot and punch holes in the opposing team. Moonblast and Freeze-Dry are powerful STAB-attacks, with Freeze-Dry hitting Water-types and being unreliant on the limited turns of snow which Blizzard would be. While Ninetales is certainly a powerhouse, they are completely walled by the many Steel-types present in the format which should justify the strength that this set has.

:sv/Mewtwo::Hearthflame Mask::Ogerpon-Hearthflame:
Mewtwo @ Hearthflame Mask
106/110/90/154/90/130/680
Pressure -> Mold Breaker
Psychic -> Psychic/Fire
- Psystrike
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Recover

Mega stones will likely be too powerful for Mewtwo, especially ones that increase special attack or speed. The Hearthflame Mask is a more balanced transformation item and fixes one of Mewtwo's greatest weaknesses: a poor typing. The added Fire-type improves Mewtwo's defensive profile and provides STAB for Fire Blast, resulting in a potent STAB combination that hits on the physical and special side. Earth Power provides additional coverage, notably hitting Fire-types that resist Fire Blast and Rock-types that now threaten Mewtwo for super effective damage. Nasty Plot would've been too strong with Mewtwo's stats and the coverage that their moves have. Instead, Recover was chosen so that Mewtwo can effectively check opponents repeatedly throughout the match.
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PQRDG said:
:crobat: :raichu-mega-y:
Crobat @ Raichunite-Y
85/90/80/70/80/130 -> 85/100/80/140/80/150
Inner Focus -> No Guard
Poison/Flying
-Nasty Plot
-Hurricane
-Heat Wave
-U-Turn

STAB No Guard Hurricane, held back by a Pokemon relying on Heat Wave to hit the Steel types that would resist its STAB. Bad matchup into Pokemon such as Raging Bolt and Rotom-Wash, as well as all Rock-types. Solidly fast and decently strong, but has its limits.

:sylveon: :floette-mega:
Sylveon @ Floettite
95/65/65/110/130/60 -> 95/85/85/140/150/70
Cute Charm -> Fairy Aura
Fairy
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast
-Mystical Fire
-Draining Kiss

Cute Charm instead of Pixilate as starting ability to give it a niche before mega evolving. Fairy Aura Fairy-type with Moonblast and Draining Kiss.
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Mimik909 said:
:aerodactyl:
Aerodactyl @ Scizorite
Ability: Pressure -> Technician
Stats: 80/105/65/60/65/130 -> 80/125/105/70/95/140
- Rock Blast
- Dual Wingbeat
- Bulldoze
- Dragon Dance

Ok so this is kinda like dnite except it has more powerful STAB at the loss of Multiscale. Rock Blast and Dual Wing beat RIP through mons and bulldoze can help provide speed control. I would love to run Hone Claws but they kinda deleted that move in champs from all mons.
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Lysion said:
:sv/tapu koko: :sablenite:
Tapu Koko @ Sablenite
70/115/85/95/75/130 (old) -> 70/125/135/115/125/100 (new)
Electric Surge -> Magic Bounce
Electric/Fairy
- Thunderbolt
- Nature's Madness
- Roost
- Defog

Yeah I'm also going the defensive route. Defog too appetizing.
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Steeve99 said:
:shox::eelektross-mega:
Shox @ Eelektrossite
136/55/87/108/108/56 -> 136/85/87/138/118/86
Electromorphosis -> Eelevate
Normal/Electric
-Thunderbolt
-Hyper Voice
-Ice Beam
-Milk Drink

Levitate + special Moxie (beast boost) combined is pretty good, especially with how bulky shox is.
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:Aerodactyl: Mimik909 (11), PQRDG (8), AthenaStrive9 (7), Steeve99 (5), Lysion (4), flareth13 (2), Reeonthestreet (2), StarPiranhaPlant (1)
:Crobat: PQRDG (13), Lysion (7), Mimik909 (4), RetroSquad (4), Auctoria (3), AthenaStrive9 (2), Steeve99 (1), flareth13 (1)
:Flamigo: Snaquaza (19), flareth13 (6), Auctoria (5), PQRDG (5), Mimik909 (4), Lysion (1)
:Mewtwo: AthenaStrive9 (14), PQRDG (8), Auctoria (7), Lysion (4), flareth13 (4), Mimik909 (3), RetroSquad (2), TheShowdownHero (1), Steeve99 (1)
:Ninetales-Alola: AthenaStrive9 (11), Auctoria (6), Lysion (6), RetroSquad (5), Steeve99 (4), PQRDG (3), Eeveeto (1)
:Shox: Steeve99 (11), AthenaStrive9 (10), flareth13 (5), Lysion (5), PQRDG (4), Reeonthestreet (3), Mimik909 (2)
:Sylveon: PQRDG (9), Steeve99 (7), Auctoria (7), ANinjaDude (6), Mimik909 (6), AthenaStrive9 (3), TheShowdownHero (2), StarPiranhaPlant (1)
:Tapu Koko: Lysion (9), PQRDG (7), AthenaStrive9 (6), ANinjaDude (4), Auctoria (3), Mimik909 (3), flareth13 (3), RetroSquad (2), Reeonthestreet (1), Steeve99 (1)

Stay tuned for a double-post, as there are some exciting balance changes coming that just need a couple confirmations before they go ahead.
 
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All right this is going to be a long post because there are going to be a number of new changes made that don't just include the various level changes.

Before looking at the below, a concept change that some folks have requested...

:fighting memory: Silvally Memories will now allow a Pokemon to maintain their ability! This will be a buff for Zacian, as well as some others that you will see.

:audino: Fire Punch -> Drain Punch
:baxcalibur: Iron Head/Earthquake -> Dragon Dance/Aqua Tail
:darkrai: Dark Pulse -> Sucker Punch
:dragonite: Earthquake -> Bulldoze
:garganacl: Iron Defense -> Stealth Rock
:iron moth: Flash Cannon -> Sludge Wave
:jirachi: Flash Cannon -> Doom Desire
:kyurem-black: Substitute -> Dragon Claw
:landorus-therian: Stealth Rock/Sandsear Storm ->Stone Edge/Earthquake
:roaring moon: Thunder Fang -> Roost
:scizor: Roost -> Defog

:golisopod: Full Moveset Change
Swords Dance/Aqua Jet/Leech Life/Sucker Punch

:darkrai: :hawlucha-mega::hawluchanite: -> :golurk-mega::golurkite: [New stats 70/114/100/131/100/185, no ability change]
:garganacl: :scrafty-mega::scraftinite: -> :tyranitar-mega::tyranitarite: [New stats 100/130/180/25/110/55, new ability Stamina]
:iron moth: :chimecho-mega::chimechite: -> :delphox-mega::delphoxite: [New stats 80/70/60/185/135/140, no ability change, typing now Fire/Poison]
:kyurem-black: :zap plate: -> :electric memory: [No stat change, new ability Teravolt, typing now Dragon/Ice/Electric]
:landorus-therian: :manectric-mega::manectite: -> :scrafty-mega::scraftinite: [New stats 89/185/110/115/100/101, no ability change]
:regigigas: :iron plate: -> :earth plate: [No stat change, no ability change, typing now Ground]
:scizor: :barbaracle-mega::barbaracite: -> :beedrill-mega::beedrillite: [New stats 70/190/100/25/80/135, new ability Adaptability, new typing Bug/Steel]
:sharpedo::lucario-mega: :lucarionite: -> :glimmora-mega::glimmoranite: [New stats 70/155/55/115/55/110, no ability change]
:vikavolt: :aggron-mega::aggronite: -> :chimecho-mega::chimechite: [New stats 77/70/120/185/105/43, new ability Levitate]

:mewtwo-mega-x::mewtwonite-x: +10 Speed -> +10 Attack

:falinks-mega::Falinksite: [35/10/5/10/40] -> [25/20/5/15/35]
:falinks: (65/135/110/75/70/115 -> 65/125/120/75/75/110)
:overqwil: (85/150/105/70/75/125 -> 85/140/115/70/80/120)

:garchomp-mega::Garchompite: [45/18/20/-10/27] -> [30/30/-5/15/30]
:garchomp: (108/175/113/100/75/129 -> 108/160/125/75/100/132)
:mimikyu: (55/135/98/70/95/123 -> 55/120/110/45/110/126)

:sableye-mega::sablenite: - Restore to original stats (Lysion's Tapu Koko had the old stats, so we might as well put the bear back to how it should be)

:ampharos-mega::ampharosite: +Dragon Primary (instead of Secondary)

As a result of the above changes, a number of sets will be different in this next slate, and I apologize to my coder for the work I am putting him through. Most of these have been at least in part approved by their original submitters. We will get to try these new sets on ladder and discuss if the changes were for the better or worse, and the changes will be adjusted during the upcoming Slate 11.
 
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The justification post will take time but will appear. Just know that nothing listed here is intended as a "nerf", merely a sidegrade. The grouping like this makes it that certain Pokemon have what appear to be a buff and a nerf in seperate sections, but it results in the new set being changed, but not in a way intended to make it worse.

A number of Pokemon are getting buffs as discussed with their original submitters. A handful of Pokemon are getting some changes that are an experiment to see if the modification will make the set more competitive. Other than the change to Scizor, none of the Pokemon here are intended to change much mechanically, but rather just change what tools they have to take advantage of.
 
As someone who's played a lot of the tier and is number 1 on ladder I think some of these changes are really confusing
:baxcalibur: Iron Head/Earthquake -> Dragon Dance/Aqua Tail
For this change I think the optimal bax set would be icicle spear, scale shot, dragon dance, earthquake, I dont really think aqua tail provides anything over what earthquake does
:dragonite: Earthquake -> Bulldoze
I think this change is just not very good, bulldoze being 10bp lower means that you can miss out on some kills after dancing and the speed control isn't valuable enough to be a good reason for this move
:jirachi: Flash Cannon -> Doom Desire
I think this change is also pretty bad, doom desire is a fine move but reliable steel stab on jirachi is actually pretty decent for checking fairies at a reasonable pace, doom desire just doesn't fit the way the meta is currently played, future sight mons in general tend to be not great in a rands setting
:landorus-therian: Stealth Rock/Sandsear Storm ->Stone Edge/Earthquake
Removing rocks when this is 90% of what lando even did just makes 0 sense, stedge is not super important for this pokemon but eq is a good change
:iron moth: :chimecho-mega::chimechite: -> :delphox-mega::delphoxite: [New stats 80/70/60/185/135/140, no ability change, typing now Fire/Poison]
Dont get why this is happening since it seems to be entirely different from the premise the pokemon was added for, i dont hate the change but I think changing entire stones without voting isn't a great precedent
:kyurem-black: :zap plate: -> :electric memory: [No stat change, new ability Teravolt, typing now Dragon/Ice/Electric]
I was of the understanding that rks system + retaining an existing ability was against the spirit of mix n mega as a tier, this change feels incredibly random when zacian still just has rks instead of intrepid, and i think rks should just be the ability for both of these mons, kyurem is still a strong sweeper after 1-2 dances and i dont think it needs an arbitrary change to make it good
:scizor: :barbaracle-mega::barbaracite: -> :beedrill-mega::beedrillite: [New stats 70/190/100/25/80/135, new ability Adaptability, new typing Bug/Steel]
Fine change but once again feels like this isnt what people voted for and this set is much more generic than it was before
I enjoy the more restrained nature of this pet mod and I think the lack of a lot of crazy changes has made it more popular for people who enjoy the tier, I think a lot of these changes are suggestions thats are fine on paper but i don't like them being added without significant discussion, other tiers usually use polls to determine changes and i also dislike radically changing a pokemon's set before level balancing is even attempted. I think in a pet mod the ideas that get voted for should be what ends up in the tier and things that circumvent that system (changing stones/abilities/effects etc.) should also be voted on and discussed throughly just like a sub proposed by someone during a slate would. I still like the mod and I think its fun but I want to see a more standardized way of handling balancing that involves community feedback in a way that ideas can be discussed and debated instead of being one off chat suggestions that get added without community input after the initial suggestion. I also think there should be some level of consistency around the way things like memories are handled, why is kyurem black an exception while zacian keeps its ability.
Tldr: a lot of the changes feel like they go against the sets people voted for and the way kyurem black's ability is handled is something i dislike as well as the moveset changes being kind of questionable for some mons, might change my opinion after the justifications but we'll see
 
I agree with MafuSimp. Scizor and Iron Moth in particular feel very different from what was voted, and I'll dare say Iron Moth is a nerf. To add on those, some changes like removing Substitute on Kyurem-Black feel weird as well. And MafuSimp already touched on the fact that it changed what people voted for, but I'll go even further: were the subbers aware of these changes? Because I'm not concerned, but if that's not the case, it also feels a bit like cheating the winner out of their win by just changing the set to something really different (Garganacl plays very differently, Golisopod plays differently, etc).
 
I have tharts.

:darkrai: Darkrai being genuinely weaker and also losing Dark STAB is kinda ludicrous. I appreciate the speed bump because Darkrai was always seen as traditionally slower than people would have liked...but Darkrai's biggest problem was always being weak so it only has a good matchup versus offense. But now its losing Dark STAB and SpA was lowered by a bit. What does this solve for Darkrai?!? Yes I am saying it lost Dark STAB because Sucker Punch off 114 Atk unboosted is pathetic, snd feels useless if you are now one of the fastest unboosted Pokemon around at 185 Speed.

:iron-moth: The lack of justification is what is really tripping me here, because Im here wondering why was Iron Moth needed to be changed. It was a pretty great Pokémon without being necessarily broken, though it can heavily threaten alot of stuff. The newer additions imo made great strides in keeping it balanced while still making it good. Ig no more because this Pokémon had to be changed because ____________.

:kyurem-black: Another guy that got completely changed is Kyurem Black. This is another thing where I am not sure why this was changed. I'm still trying to figure out if this was a nerf or buff, because I don't except changing mons for being "sidegrades", that's silly. Kyurem Black was an admittedly very powerful Pokemon, not sure I'd outright say Broken nowadays but it has been a potent sweeper for a long time, so IF there was an argument for needing a nerf I COULD hear that out, even if I don't agree or am willing to counter the argument. But there is no argument. Its just changed because ____________.

:scizor: Bad. I don't think Scizor is a good Defog user, so no matter the typing Defog over Roost seems bad. The main grope to me is that this was a Mega from the slate where u get a bonus point during boting if you can justify delaying mega evolution. But now that just doesn't matter because your Mega is strictly just better Scizor. So that was pointless. Basically telling people that that slate's entore gimmick doesn't matter because we will retcon away that sub for __________.

The most outrageous changes imo been covered, so I guess I'll just speak on the changes overall.

:audino: Drain Punch is solid, but now this guy is hardwalled by Ghosts. Imo I think this should be 3A Wish (or not exist, mon is pretty weird to run and kinda booty).

:baxcalibur: Why was Earthquake removed for Aqua Tail.? I am going out on a limb here and assuming that people felt that Bax needed a way to boost its Attack, but were afraid of DDance + EQ being a thing. Understandable. I don't wanna play Bax that gets walled by the million Steel types in this meta. So imo Id much rather play with its original set as a slow bulkly wallbreaker.

:dragonite: I would actually need to see calcs that prove that dropping Earthquake is a significant flaw for this Pokémon, because if we don't lose significant OHKOs and 2HKOes at base and +1, I am perfectly fine with this. Dragonite sometimes just throws out attacks if DDancing isn't a good position so doing that plus stat lowering is cool. I definitely want to see those calcs though because if I miss KOes on steels idc about Speed drops.

:garganacl: I am actually fine here, I don't think Iron Defense is clicked nearly as much as Id like with Garg, Intimidate is good as well, but I think Stamina works as a very good blend of these mechanics. I often just spam Salt Cure and sometimes I don't even Mega so I can beat stuff like Ceruledge. I still the argument should be made on principle but I can see a clear reasoning here based on my personal experience with Garg.

:jirachi: No thoughts on this tbh, though I guess Doom Desire as your sole attacking move makes this kinda passive.

:landorus-therian: This one is a bit tricky. Now I see the vision, Earthquale is alot more reliable STAB, and Stone Edge allows Landorus to be useful versus the VERY large amount of Ground immunities that are inthe tier. However, Landorus without Stealth Rock is crazy. I think you drop Taunt and keep Stealth Rock, and have a set of EQ SE SR Uturn.

:roaring-moon: I don't mind this that much. Roost is pretty nice to have. Though I'd say without extra coverage U-turn feels very superfluous, but then the set itself doesn't work since Jaw Lock with pivoting is the lynchpin of the set here. This probably needed to be thought out a bit more.

:appletun: This mon is straight booty ass cheeks now. Like it needs a full retooling since it lost its Grass typing and is now Pure Dragon, making Apple Acid really bad, and this Pokemon was already a bit hit or miss in its current state.

Low-key I think the rest of the changes are fine and you can tell the community feedback behind them, i.e everyone hates Regigigas Steel being a bulky hard hitting Steel that cheeses its checks with boosted Iron Head flinches, so changing that typing makes sense and the justification can be inferred. Garchompite was also like broken on almost everything that isn't Mimikyu so nerfing it also makes sense on that part too. Some changes make sense, but not everything makes sense, and without the justifications from council it just looks like changing for changing's sake. That is lame. Especially when we have the bear witness to things like Cryogonal still being a possibility on your team.
 
All right sorry for the delay folks it has been a long week.

Before I get to the justification post, I will announce that, surprising basically no one, MafuSimp is the winner of the ladder challenge. The boon for future slate will be determined in the near future.

Now for justifications. I will go Pokemon by Pokemon instead of how they were grouped in the above post in the hopes that it explains the logic behind the design.

:zacian: :fighting memory:
Zacian has been underperforming despite being at heart, an Ubers-level threat. However, due to the power level of the format, its Attack, Speed, and bulk were average at best, and made it difficult to reliably get up a Swords Dance. With the change to the Silvally Memories, it should now start with Intrepid Sword, giving it +1 Attack on its first switch-in. This should help it get a bit more momentum to swing more battles in its favour.

:kyurem-black: :electric memory:
The other beneficiary of this Silvally Memory change, Kyurem-Black has also surprisingly been underperforming. It was at the bottom of the winrate tracker when I made the balance change post. It has been noted in the past that Substitute has been an... odd choice of move on the set. This new set, while very similar to the one given to it in ChatBats, allows for a couple changes while still maintaining a lot of the same flavour.

1) Fusion Bolt goes from being a 120 BP STAB move back down to 100 BP. This is still a solid move but isn't quite the nuclear option that it was.
2) The new typing gives Kyurem a modified, but somewhat improved, defensive profile. While gaining a weakness to Dragon and Fairy, it can now come in on Water and Grass moves it could not safely before.
3) STAB Dragon Claw instead of Substitute gives Kyurem a reliable third attack. Mainly this is something that would hit Electric resists that would do more reliable damage than Icicle Spear. It also gives it a better move for the mirror matchup.

:regigigas: :earth plate:
Regigigas has been an annoying iron wall. With Earth Plate not only is it more fitting thematically, not sharing a type with another Regi, but it now trades a boosted Iron Head for a boosted Earthquake. Ground is also a strange type offensively in this format, which you will see mentioned again below. This change should make this titan more reasonable both offensively and defensively, even with a 120 BP Earthquake.

:appletun: :ampharosite:
This change was suggested by the original submitter. The Grass/Dragon Appletun suffers from a plethora of weaknesses, making it hard to rely on being a defensive Pokemon with Fluffy. By become pure Dragon, it goes from being Fire-weak to Fire-neutral, as well as losing weaknesses to Bug and Flying. While it loses STAB on Apple Acid, it is still a useful move for chip damage, and the Special Defense drops allows for the incoming Draco Meteor to still hit hard as the main source of damage. After all, this Pokemon is primarily a defensive Pokemon with Leech Seed and Recover to keep it alive.

:roaring moon: :sharpedonite:
Roaring Moon is another Pokemon that has been underperforming despite on paper some excellent stats. With the design around using Jaw Lock to hold an opponent in place, Roost instead of one of the coverage Fang moves allows Moon to maintain the momentum of the battle in its favour.

:dragonite: :scizorite:
Even before Technician Bulldoze Aerodactyl won, this change was being considered. While the 10 BP decrease in this coverage move may be notable in some matchups, the Speed control should allow it to be an interesting support for the rest of its team, similarly to how Breaking Swipe can reduce the damage taken of a Pokemon switching in.

:aegislash: :audino: :mewtwonite-x:
Both Aegislash and Audino are surprisingly weak despite gaining Pure Power. Audino now getting a STAB Fighting move, and both getting +10 Attack, should make them a bit stronger. Taking it from the +10 Speed that the stone gives, which neither of them really benefit as much from, maximized the stone and makes both Pokemon just that much more effective.

:jirachi: :clefablite:
Jirachi is a solid defensive Pokemon thanks to its change to being a Wish-passer. This new change leans into that design of it. We have so many special attacking Steel types, and almost all of them are forced to run Flash Cannon as a STAB move. This change to Jirachi helps it stand out as a special attacker while also still fitting with its playstyle.

:darkrai: :golurkite:
Darkrai was a very fun Pokemon to use when it was a fast threat. Changing it to Hawluchanite made it hit a lot less hard than with Pidgeotite, but also slowed it down to being just an average Speed for the format. This new stone gives it a massive Speed boost. Sucker Punch on it allows it to be harder to revenge kill, allowing it to get that last bit of chip on faster threats such as Speed Boosted Incineroar or Trailblaze Decidueye.

:golisopod: :vile vial:
A new moveset selected by Yvonneon. First Impression has proven to not be as useful for its current design, so this new moveset takes advantage of its toolkit to be a scary attacker.

:sharpedo: :glimmoranite:
Minor stone swap for Sharpedo, giving it a bit more Special Defense in exchange for a bit of Speed. Same Attack stat helps this have just a sliver more bulk to give it that extra edge in certain matchups.

:scizor: :beedrillite:
Clearly one of the more controversial changes here. Scizor in its current set does not do enough damage or take enough damage to be as effective as we would like. This set allows it to be more effective offensively, and was approved as a potential set by the original submitter, but we will workshop another potential set that better fits the initial design. Defog instead of Roost ideally allows it to be an interesting fast support Pokemon, but this can be adjusted.

The main issue that will likely have to be addressed in the future when the set can be better modified is the 4MSS, where this Scizor likely wants to run Bullet Punch, Close Combat, U-Turn, Roost/Defog, and Swords Dance, and does not have the room to slot all of those moves in. This set attempts to mitigate that by designing a set that does not look for all 5-6 of these moves, but there is likely a better solution available.

:baxcalibur: :heracronite:
Baxcalibur has been underperforming, and I am hoping Dragon Dance when paired with a level nerf balances it out. While there is a reaction to Aqua Tail, it actually hits Steel-types neutrally, and our format has a number of Ground-immune Steel/Flying types (Levitate Dialga, Chimechite users, our handful of Steel/Flyings). While it does not have a great option for Empoleon or Vaporeon, it is good for it to have a couple of poor matchups so the change does not sweep the format.

:landorus-therian: :scraftinite:
When Landorus was originally submitted, the only Intimidate stone was Manectite. With the existence of Scraftinite, we can run a set on Landorus' physical attack, still being solid before mega evolving. While slower than the Manectite set, it gets more physical attack and about the same bulk. As for switching Stealth Rock for Stone Edge, there are two reasons for this.
1) We have a number of Stealth Rock users already, and we will be putting the move onto someone else in these changes (see below).
2) Ground as your only offensive typing is actually really bad in this format, due to the number of Flying-types and Levitate mons. Stone Edge at least gives it an option to hit those Pokemon. I had briefly been considering Smack Down to synergize with Earthquake, but that option is so niche that Stone Edge feels like the better choice.
While the choice of which status move to drop for Stone Edge was tricky, as the only Pokemon in the format with Taunt it felt reasonable to keep that as a niche it would maintain.

:garganacl: :tyranitarite:
For those of you that remember, the first Garganacl set was with Staraptite for STAB Body Press. Once Staraptite was revealed to be Contrary, defeating the purpose of the set, we gave it Scraftinite as a decent defensive stone. Garganacl has not been performing as well as it should be, so our buffed Tyranitarite feels fitting for it. With Stamina, it becomes an incredibly bulky Pokemon with Body Press, Salt Cure, and Recover. With that in place, Iron Defense feels a little excessive, so giving it Stealth Rock feels like a good fourth slot.

:overqwil: :falinksite: :mimikyu: :garchompite:
Both of these Pokemon get pretty much the same change so they will go into this category together. Both of these stones benefit from a strong ability, but were primarily build around a high attacking stat. Both stones are updated to reduce the Attack boost and instead provide more bulk. Both of these Pokemon will be able to use these abilities much more effectively if they just have that extra bit of longevity, and the minor drop in power does not drastically change how the abilities apply their effects.

:iron moth: :delphoxite:
Definitely the most controversial change here, but one that was discussed with the original submitter. Fire/Steel is an excellent defensive typing (see Heatran before it Mega Evolves) even before gaining Levitate. When this was originally submitted the only other Levitate stones were Latiasite and Latiosite, but this new inclusion of Delphoxite allows for a stat spread better suited for a fast Special Attacker. It still maintains a defensive niche of being immune to Ground and 4x resistant to Fairy, even if its type chart is shifted somewhat. The main benefit of changing this set is that it makes Chimechite available for another Pokemon.

:vikavolt: :chimechite:
Vikavolt has become somewhat of a one-trick pony, often being used just to set up Sticky Webs and die. Its current stone gives it Filter, turning its 4x weakness to Fire into a 3x weakness. Additionally, its Special Attack is decent, but not ideal, as Aggronite does not give it any boosts to this stat. This new stone gives it a little power boost, keeps its immunity to Ground, and still provides its solid Bug/Steel typing. You can still hold off on Mega Evolving into certain moves, such as a weak Fire or Electric move, but now it is a harder hitting Special Attacker that also lands the Sticky Webs.

I believe that covers all of the changes. Some of these sets will be subject to changes, as they are attempts in cooperation with their original submitters to improve underperforming sets. I hope that once these changes are live we will be able to see just how effective these changes are.
 
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All right folks, there will be a delay in slate 10 being coded, as you know our wonderful coder iforgetwhyimhere is very busy with a number of projects and also celebrating a birthday. That has given me time to reflect on some of the things you have said and I will be making a couple of changes to the above.

:landorus-therian:
Taunt -> Stealth Rock

While this Pokemon was the unique Pokemon to have the move Taunt in the format, Stealth Rocks felt more needed on it as some of you observed.

:scizor:
Barbaracite -> Beedrillite
Roost -> Defog -> Swords Dance

The Scizor change will be reverted. Instead, it will be gaining Swords Dance on its Barbaracite set, giving it a better damage output while still fitting the design of its base Technician and Mega'd Tough Claws set.

The following changes are also being reverted based on the above feedback.

:appletun:
Grass/Dragon -> Dragon/Dragon

:dragonite:
Earthquake -> Bulldoze

:jirachi:
Flash Cannon -> Doom Desire

For now, the rest of the changes will be applied. Once Slate 10 is live with these changes implemented, there will be a couple of tours to test the new Pokemon and discuss whether the implemented changes function better or worse than they appear to on paper.

(Don't worry ifwih I will send you a new paste with these updated sets and a couple level adjustments that have been brought to my attention.)
 
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All right folks it has been a bit, and a lot of you are probably wondering when Slate 11 will be happening. The short answer: soon. The long answer: we are waiting for this slate to be coded (likely dropping with the other November patches) and for that version of the format to be played a bit before we move forward.

While we wait, I will provide you with the plan for Slate 11. We will not be introducing any new Pokemon to the format. Instead, we will be adjusting current Pokemon. The power of a Pet Mod means that your Random Battle set does not have to only have 4 moves. So let's take advantage of that.

  • You may change up to five Pokemon (unless you are our ladder challenge winner MafuSimp, who will get an extra submission slot)
  • You may change no more than three of your own previous submissions (except for MafuSimp again, who will be allowed to modify all of theirs)

A movepool change submission consists of the following:
  • You may add one legal move to the Pokemon's Random moveset
  • (Optional) You may replace one of this Pokemon's moves with another move from its legal learnset
Note that when modifying a movepool of a Pokemon that I gave a new ladder set in this past slate, you may submit a change based on the original version or on my modified version. You may not change any held items beyond those restrictions.

Voting will take place for all submissions, with any changes to a submission going against the original submission, as well as the version on ladder if I made a change to it in this balance patch. Submitting a change to your own submission will get you +1 Vote to your submission, so make sure to declare it as such.

When we get to the voting phase, tiebreakers will exist in the following order:

Original Submission -> Original Submitter's Change -> Current Ladder Version -> Leader's Choice​

Start coming up with your sets, and I will let you know when we are ready to begin. As previously mentioned, I will be attempting to get a number of tours in before and during this slate, so people can get a good idea of what changes will benefit the format, and if my balance changes were good. See you all hopefully next week for the next step of this format.
 
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Hey since I've played this format a lot and this slate is a lot about adjustments here is a rough "viability rankings" based on how much i want them on my team
Screenshot 2026-10-29 140224.png
:great tusk: :lopunnite:: tldr: Basically impossible to switch into, has a good speed tier, can take hits, can spin rocks, does everything youd want and more, could even file your taxes
CC is just an absolute nuke of a button that chunks 40-50% off even the bulkiest neutrals
Only true switch ins are :drifblim:, :bronzong: pre mega, :zapdos:, :fezandipiti: after mega. :Fezandipiti: likes to stay base form, :bronzong: likes to mega, :zapdos: and :drifblim: both don't like ice spinner + rocks potentially letting tusk brute force through them
Its very easy to farm a spin so offensive checks don't even check this guy
Ground op

:zamazenta: :red orb:: tldr: Strong, fast and bulky boosted by insane stats + desolate land
Just has a really strong statline
It almost never gets OHKOd
Offensively it can come in constantly to launch big ccs/fire fangs while it can also provide defensive utility
Typing is really important since it beats both steels and fairies which are the two most common typings

:pecharunt: :gyaradosite:: tldr: Insane bulk + chip + near 0 momentum lost on pivot
:Pecharunt: can consistently check almost every physical threat in the tier that isnt a ground type
Foul play + chain disaudes setup
You can choose if you want to mega :pecharunt: or not which allows for versatility and allows the first switch in to be easier
Chain is just good for making progress in general and parting shot basically kills any momentum people would usually get from switching in a check to a defensive mon

:Gholdengo: :magearnite: tldr: ghold is ghold which is good as ghold, can play base form or sweep in mega
Can choose to stay base form to block defogs/status
You can wall out pokemon such as :tinkaton: :scream tail: :jirachi: who rely on twave to handle their resists
You can mega for a better speed tier, damage and soul heart which allows you to clean endgames v easily
Spammable ghost type moves with recovery are v strong

:hippowdon: :steelixite: :tldr: hits way too hard for a "defensive" pokemon
It's bulk allows it to take most non super effective moves incredibly well
:Ground: is a still an incredibly strong typing offensively into all the steels
Sand force + sand stream makes switching into this thing a nightmare and you have to do it multiple times per game
Slack off can allow :Hippowdon: to trade damage then just heal back all the damage it took while opposing pokemon do not have that luxury
:hippowdon: doesnt work properly on showdown but im evaluating it like it does, the fact that its still a good pokemon in my eyes without :steelixite: working properly should really say something about how good it is

:regigigas: :iron plate: tldr: the best damage trader in the damage trading format
I've talked about damage trading a lot but :regigigas: is one of the pokemon who is best at it, it has incredible stats which allow it to take so many hits and fire back with iron head or earthquake
Iron head is also an insane move coming off :regigigas: because 1.2x on a pokemon with base 160 attack its going to hit hard despite the middling bp
Earthquake also gives it near perfect coverage which allows it to almost always trade positively in every matchup
Iron head can flinch through the slower more defensive mons that try to solve this pokemon as an offensive threat which can be game winning while faster pokemon can't switch in and even if they do they usually wont even kill
This set is getting changed i believe to ground plate, my guestimate for where id put that would be somewhere in happy to see

:groudon: :hearthflame mask:: tldr: great tusk + zama baby
It reaps the benefits of ground and fire typing, 1.2x attack while having strong bulk and gaining mold breaker
This makes it near impossible to switch into eq which off :groudon:'s attack stat is going to do a huge chunk
Same as :great tusk: in the fact there are few true switch ins but its lower speed has me evaluate it at a slightly lower position in the upper echelon

:scream tail: :gardevoirite: tldr: twave steels, boomburst non steels
It does two things but it does those things really well, it boombursts and it twaves, twaves cripples a lot of pokemon since a single para turn can allow you to brute force a check which matters a lot in a format that is defined by bulky pokemon taking swings at each other, the speed control is also great for allowing your huge threat to take a turn before theirs
Secondly pixielate boomburst is near impossible to switch into without a steel and long term will destroy almost any team which :scream tail: can stay around to do, if they switch in a steel on boomburst you also just take the para and switch out into your steel type check, :scream tail: + any pokemon (eg. :ceruledge:, :great tusk:, :hariyama: just to name a few) who beats steel types is a winning combo

The trend among the best pokemon in the tier is that they provide stability + damage, the best pokemon in this tier trade damage well which requires good bulk and good damage output (this is also why i dont believe ditto is very strong). Speed is nice but speed with no damage and no bulk is not the greatest.
descriptions gonna be a bit shorter since theres a lot more mons in this tier
:regieleki: :altarianite:tldr: fast volt + unblockable spin
One of the few pokemon who i consider incredibly strong that dont fall into the damage trading category, unblockable removal + fast volt are just strong enough niches to carry it
Can also stay base forme for strong volts and explosion is a free trade button when you click it

:dragapult: :red orb: tldr: fast strong, bulky enough
Stab combo is strong and difficult to switch into, flame hurts especially with sun boost and it still has a strong speed tier
Only held back by being rocks weak which are ever present in the tier

:Drifblim: :victreebelite: tldr: physical wall that trades shockingly well
Switching in on almost every physical threat, innards out preventing you from ever getting swept, sap being super reliable since most mega stones boost attack and defog being a great niche this thing can feel really impossible to play against at times
Main flaw is the passivity but hex can hurt and provide valuable big chip

:mandibuzz: :mawilite: tldr: bulky defog that does solid damage
Foul play does very good damage for the same reasons why sap basically always heals to full, even special attackers tend to have +10/20 attack from their stones and with a huge power boost foul play hits incredibly hard
:mandibuzz: also has the bulk to soak up hits and get defogs off reliably, basically impossible to block defog as well with ghold due to the threat of stab huge power foul play
Toxic ends up being useful to prevent setup sweepers that lean on the special side or resist foul play ex. :hariyama:
Main flaw is that it still is taking max damage from rocks and doesnt have the same ability of zero turn threat that :drifblim: has through innards out

:kyurem black: :zap plate: tldr: dance and sweep
Not much to explain, you dance up and you click 120 bp stab fusion bolt and sweep at a speed that is almost impossible to outspeed at +1 and sometimes you have the bulk for +2, benefits a lot from lack of revenge killers in this tier
Main flaw is once again rocks weakness making it's sweeping chances limited to 1 attempt to game but thats really all it needs most of the time
Id say that the planned changes for this mon make it significantly worse since 1 dance doesnt seem like enough anymore and the typing is worse, would move it down a tier or honestly maybe two

gonna leave this a wip for now
I'll edit this with justifications when I have time but if anyone has disagreements or questions I'd love to hear what other peoples thoughts are, also this is not accounting for planned balance changes or the new slate 10 pokemon
 
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PQRDG said:
All right folks, there will be a delay in slate 10 being coded, as you know our wonderful coder iforgetwhyimhere is very busy with a number of projects and also celebrating a birthday. That has given me time to reflect on some of the things you have said and I will be making a couple of changes to the above.

:landorus-therian:
Taunt -> Stealth Rock

While this Pokemon was the unique Pokemon to have the move Taunt in the format, Stealth Rocks felt more needed on it as some of you observed.

:scizor:
Barbaracite -> Beedrillite
Roost -> Defog -> Swords Dance

The Scizor change will be reverted. Instead, it will be gaining Swords Dance on its Barbaracite set, giving it a better damage output while still fitting the design of its base Technician and Mega'd Tough Claws set.

The following changes are also being reverted based on the above feedback.

:appletun:
Grass/Dragon -> Dragon/Dragon

:dragonite:
Earthquake -> Bulldoze

:jirachi:
Flash Cannon -> Doom Desire

For now, the rest of the changes will be applied. Once Slate 10 is live with these changes implemented, there will be a couple of tours to test the new Pokemon and discuss whether the implemented changes function better or worse than they appear to on paper.

(Don't worry ifwih I will send you a new paste with these updated sets and a couple level adjustments that have been brought to my attention.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
As most of you know, Slate 10 is now live on Showdown. Unfortunately, the above changes were not integrated properly, but I will be working with iforgetwhyimhere to correct this, as well as some minor level adjustments.

PQRDG said:
All right folks it has been a bit, and a lot of you are probably wondering when Slate 11 will be happening. The short answer: soon. The long answer: we are waiting for this slate to be coded (likely dropping with the other November patches) and for that version of the format to be played a bit before we move forward.

While we wait, I will provide you with the plan for Slate 11. We will not be introducing any new Pokemon to the format. Instead, we will be adjusting current Pokemon. The power of a Pet Mod means that your Random Battle set does not have to only have 4 moves. So let's take advantage of that.

  • You may change up to five Pokemon (unless you are our ladder challenge winner MafuSimp, who will get an extra submission slot)
  • You may change no more than three of your own previous submissions (except for MafuSimp again, who will be allowed to modify all of theirs)

A movepool change submission consists of the following:
  • You may add one legal move to the Pokemon's Random moveset
  • (Optional) You may replace one of this Pokemon's moves with another move from its legal learnset
Note that when modifying a movepool of a Pokemon that I gave a new ladder set in this past slate, you may submit a change based on the original version or on my modified version. You may not change any held items beyond those restrictions.

Voting will take place for all submissions, with any changes to a submission going against the original submission, as well as the version on ladder if I made a change to it in this balance patch. Submitting a change to your own submission will get you +1 Vote to your submission, so make sure to declare it as such.

When we get to the voting phase, tiebreakers will exist in the following order:

Original Submission -> Original Submitter's Change -> Current Ladder Version -> Leader's Choice​

Start coming up with your sets, and I will let you know when we are ready to begin. As previously mentioned, I will be attempting to get a number of tours in before and during this slate, so people can get a good idea of what changes will benefit the format, and if my balance changes were good. See you all hopefully next week for the next step of this format.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...

Slate 11 - Change Comes From Within​

Slate 11 is now live! Please follow the above rules for changes. We will keep this open for a while so we can continue playing the format and testing who needs a couple changes. Will see you all some time next week for vetoes and comments.
 
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