accidentally posted this when it was incomplete lol
before the topic of :weavile: vs :lokix:, lemme clear some misunderstanding in brief
Q. Why is Weavile getting highlighted lately, even though it was part of the tier for a long time?
Ans. so in a big tour called SCL (Smogon Champions League) the best players on this site play each other with high stakes on the line, so naturally they try to build full proof and solid teams. and what these players find is that stuff like Weavile to be exceptionally good an countering their strategies, any possibly manuvering games. another reasons can be Manaphy :manaphy: being gone and sun not being used much rn.
Q. But isn't weavile easy to check? I can name like 10+ checks to it on top of my head.
Ans. Well you are not wrong, Weavile does have many counters in the tier like Heatran, Conkeldurr, Skarmory, Talonflame etc etc. Yeah these are counters to weavile in any other gen other than Scarlet/Violet. because Tera is such an amazing mechanic (sarcasm) Weavile can do many things and tera out depending upon your team structure. Is it tera ghost to block mach punches / vacuum waves, or immunity to skarm's press, or Fire to Lietrally own mu's like talonflame and Heatran. and Skarmory is just on a death row on the next time weavile comes in after getting its helmet knocked off.
Q. Aren't other stuff like Latias, Keldeo and Heatran also very good and forcing during teambuilding?
Ans. They are, but i think not as much as weavile. You can ask this to a Well-Versed UU player, im not the best one to ask this.
MAIN TOPIC:
:weavile: Weavile vs :lokix: Lokix
:SV/Weavile: WEAVILE
Pros:
:SV/Lokix: LOKIX
Pros:
To sum it up:
REPLAYS as promised:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-977684
played against a decent player later on in uu showtime tour.
this is olivia's team from the bazaar. it has no rocks (main way to deal with banded kix) and not a particular "counter" for lokix, still with a gameplan i was able to almost win.. but unfortunately my draco missed at the last turn. (meant to show lokix doesnt do much against teams its clearly good against).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-969513
weavile early game onwards with swords dance basically traded for a Heatran tera (this was indeed a bad play by watashi's side to click rocks there) and damage on tyranitar even with a burn, which enabled its teammate Latios to sweep the game. Meanwhile a lokix would have sucked in doing this exact job, and heatran didn't even needed to click tera against it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-974909
again weavile forced early tera resulting in a loss, thought I wont say a lokix would have been bad mu against this team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-972935
a good matchup for lokix as the other team didnt have a counter and their team wasnt even fat, still it kind of underperformed i.e. the lokix gameplay wasn't flashy and didn't pickup much kills.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-976488
after glazing weavile this was the one replay it did nothing, i'll question the tera click on clod because a weavile tera would have won ts according to me.
(another thing to note i didnt find any scl games where lokix performed exceptionally well... and this mon wasnt even used even once week 6 and after that probably showing it isnt good)
so i'll link my friends game from ladder
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2706150785-c66eivopsintf4js5nsoo4gjskycsqlpw?p2
so the opponent had 3 counters to lokix but with a volt turn core my friend was able to break through, i gotta agree questionable plays were made from both sides during midgame.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2706201086-3w491e8e0wv68u22bv0dtkkdfas9tbgpw
no denying it lokix was the mvp, the constant offensive pressure it created. and leech life turning the tables on fat mons which are a bad sign for lokix.
this shows lokix is definetly a demon where margin or error is less, and people play for fun. rn all good teams have an inbuilt lokix hard check, making it difficult to be played / see usage in tournaments. Now i do empathize my ladder bros on why they find ts broken, but sadly and respectfully just build better teams it cant be that hard
.
Final Thoughts: Weavile is very good, Lokix is an average mon rn tho... probably good if u only play ladder, and latter definetly not being in the bannable category.
Final Thoughts pt.2: i envision a world where weavile:weavile: gets banned, then latios:latios: calm mind will be broken as f which will lead to it getting suspected. and if lati is banned then Keldeo:keldeo: becomes a literal god, which will eventually also get banned. so im not liking the descision to touch anything in the tier as of now, its quite balanced.
before the topic of :weavile: vs :lokix:, lemme clear some misunderstanding in brief
Q. Why is Weavile getting highlighted lately, even though it was part of the tier for a long time?
Ans. so in a big tour called SCL (Smogon Champions League) the best players on this site play each other with high stakes on the line, so naturally they try to build full proof and solid teams. and what these players find is that stuff like Weavile to be exceptionally good an countering their strategies, any possibly manuvering games. another reasons can be Manaphy :manaphy: being gone and sun not being used much rn.
Q. But isn't weavile easy to check? I can name like 10+ checks to it on top of my head.
Ans. Well you are not wrong, Weavile does have many counters in the tier like Heatran, Conkeldurr, Skarmory, Talonflame etc etc. Yeah these are counters to weavile in any other gen other than Scarlet/Violet. because Tera is such an amazing mechanic (sarcasm) Weavile can do many things and tera out depending upon your team structure. Is it tera ghost to block mach punches / vacuum waves, or immunity to skarm's press, or Fire to Lietrally own mu's like talonflame and Heatran. and Skarmory is just on a death row on the next time weavile comes in after getting its helmet knocked off.
Q. Aren't other stuff like Latias, Keldeo and Heatran also very good and forcing during teambuilding?
Ans. They are, but i think not as much as weavile. You can ask this to a Well-Versed UU player, im not the best one to ask this.
MAIN TOPIC:
:weavile: Weavile vs :lokix: Lokix
:SV/Weavile: WEAVILE
Pros:
- Fastest attacker in the tier, can setup on many opportunities and sweep in endgames.
- Classified as a glass cannon. But surprisingly survives many attacks that you think should KO it.
- Most of the times immune to entry hazards.
- Meanwhile weavile Immideatly Threatens big damage, it can also use this in longterm, especially good in endgames.
- good against fat teams. which lokix isnt
- Has set variety, for items Life orb:Life_orb: to nuke everything, or good ol :heavy_duty_boots: hdb. Last Move choices can also be tailored, Low kick for Heatran:heatran: / Cobalion:cobalion: , Shard for priority and. Protect too for First impressions but i think its just a waste of a moveslot. Teras can be :dark:/:ice:/:fire:/:ghost:/:poison: depending on if you want more power or for a defensive use.
- Counterplay is very limited. Best counter by far is Heatran:heatran: and Skarmory:skarmory:, heatran:heatran: because it always lives 2 hits and can threaten you with magma storm while flame body is also there, while you also get slimed by +2 weavile low kick. Skarm:skarmory: I think yall know this one I even saw ppl like Evan the wise say about it who have 0 knowledge 0 experience of the tier. It is very bad after getting its helmet knocked off, forced to be passive and clicking roost, only to get demolished the next time it switches in by triple axel and rocks.
- Doesnt require too much support from its teammates, can work very well in different structures. like most of the times you can pair offensive teammates with this mons contrast to lokix. NOTE from the future: Realized weavile likes spikes user on its teams weavile hazard stack teams are cancer to face against.
- Pretty bad after getting burned.
- Maybe requires braincells to play against hard matchups like Keldeo :keldeo: and :Heatran:(with no low kick)
- Susceptible to be revenge killed by scarfers like Gardevoir :Gardevoir:, Zapdos-galar:Zapdos-Galar:, and the tiers beloved Lokix:lokix:.
- mb for saying earlier tinkaton maybe is a good check since u steal boots.
:SV/Lokix: LOKIX
Pros:
- Poses as the most feared mon of the tier by many, 2x resists dont mean much to it being able to freely spam first impressions.
- Classified as a revenge killer and an offensive pivot. Also survives some attacks like Weavile does and can also heal up with leech life.
- Has customizations like Choice Band:Choice_Band: to maximize its damage output, making it guarantee kills on majority of the tier barring counters. or hdb:heavy_duty_boots: to be immune to entry hazards. First impression is a no brainer move to slap on this i think, and stuff like u-turn and knock off can also be used for momentum and item removal. Sucker Punch/Taunt for the last moveset. Swords Dance is also a set, but rarely seen. Tera pool is :bug: only, if it is something else ur either too dumb or too genius.
- Can punish passive checks lke skarmory with constant u turn, racking up rocks damage on skarm (it only works tho if no hazards on your side).
- Also Bad after getting burned.
- Speed of 284 is not fast at all, most of the other offensive threats are outspeeding you or breaking your team you clicked first impression.
- Very bad against entry hazards, as its forced to switch out almost everytime after getting a KO.
- Checked/Countered by many mons: :skarmory::talonflame::heatran::mandibuzz::fezandipiti::Keldeo::tinkaton::toxapex::hydrapple::fairy::cobalion::hippowdon::zapdos_galar:+some rubl and below mentions.
- Choice Band, which i think is the more used set, if very weak to stealth rocks, and also being locked into fimp is bad (now some idiot will mention for the 10th time its not because to them fimp always kills something).
- Very bad against contact punishers like :rocky_helmet: and flame body.
- requires a good supporting core from its teammates, a hazard removal, a pivot to let it in safely, and to sponge damage for it when it has clicked its fimp.
- Tera doesnt solve the counters and checks lokix already has, though it is a good damage multiplier.
- Trading wars... thats not a good strategy to rely on.
- as peum mentioned, random protect users.
To sum it up:
| Weavile | Lokix |
|---|---|
| Fast Offensive Threat. | Also an offensive threat, fast in the sense it has priority, meanwhile on clicking other moves like koff or turn its slow (284). |
| Being naturally faster and hard hitting, making it hard to evaluate one exact counter strategy against it. | NPC Bot, only does one thing and its kinda easier to counter it for this reason. |
| Doesnt require much support from teammates. | Requires support from teammates to work properly. |
| Tera pool is large. Which complicates everything and pinpoint exact weaknesses. | Tera Pool is only bug. |
| Not particularly weak to stealth rocks. | weak to stealth rocks. |
REPLAYS as promised:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-977684
played against a decent player later on in uu showtime tour.
this is olivia's team from the bazaar. it has no rocks (main way to deal with banded kix) and not a particular "counter" for lokix, still with a gameplan i was able to almost win.. but unfortunately my draco missed at the last turn. (meant to show lokix doesnt do much against teams its clearly good against).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-969513
weavile early game onwards with swords dance basically traded for a Heatran tera (this was indeed a bad play by watashi's side to click rocks there) and damage on tyranitar even with a burn, which enabled its teammate Latios to sweep the game. Meanwhile a lokix would have sucked in doing this exact job, and heatran didn't even needed to click tera against it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-974909
again weavile forced early tera resulting in a loss, thought I wont say a lokix would have been bad mu against this team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-972935
a good matchup for lokix as the other team didnt have a counter and their team wasnt even fat, still it kind of underperformed i.e. the lokix gameplay wasn't flashy and didn't pickup much kills.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-976488
after glazing weavile this was the one replay it did nothing, i'll question the tera click on clod because a weavile tera would have won ts according to me.
(another thing to note i didnt find any scl games where lokix performed exceptionally well... and this mon wasnt even used even once week 6 and after that probably showing it isnt good)
so i'll link my friends game from ladder
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2706150785-c66eivopsintf4js5nsoo4gjskycsqlpw?p2
so the opponent had 3 counters to lokix but with a volt turn core my friend was able to break through, i gotta agree questionable plays were made from both sides during midgame.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2706201086-3w491e8e0wv68u22bv0dtkkdfas9tbgpw
no denying it lokix was the mvp, the constant offensive pressure it created. and leech life turning the tables on fat mons which are a bad sign for lokix.
this shows lokix is definetly a demon where margin or error is less, and people play for fun. rn all good teams have an inbuilt lokix hard check, making it difficult to be played / see usage in tournaments. Now i do empathize my ladder bros on why they find ts broken, but sadly and respectfully just build better teams it cant be that hard
.Final Thoughts: Weavile is very good, Lokix is an average mon rn tho... probably good if u only play ladder, and latter definetly not being in the bannable category.
Final Thoughts pt.2: i envision a world where weavile:weavile: gets banned, then latios:latios: calm mind will be broken as f which will lead to it getting suspected. and if lati is banned then Keldeo:keldeo: becomes a literal god, which will eventually also get banned. so im not liking the descision to touch anything in the tier as of now, its quite balanced.
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