:tyranitar: :flareon: :forretress: :celebi: :salamence: :swampert:
https://pokepast.es/e5f095b137e2ef2e
Hey y'all! This was something I was making for the Fire-type teambuilding competition, but I didn't quite get around to writing it up at the time. This is a team I've been having a ton of fun with, and I've had a decent amount of success with it. With that being said, it isn't perfect and has some issues I'll talk about later, but I think it does a really good job of supporting the featured mon, :flareon:!
My original idea was to use :flareon: on a sort of Spikes offense team, since those teams appreciate a :gengar: switch-in and can use the Wish support to strengthen their defensive pieces. With that in mind, let's hop into the specifics.
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
I went with Crunch because having a strong hit on :gengar: is pretty essential on these types of teams. Hitting :claydol: is nice for our :salamence: and :flareon:, and it's just generally the strongest move :tyranitar: can use. Grass is here for :swampert:, as it's one of the things lead :tyranitar: is most likely to draw in. This team doesn't have a great time switching into opposing :swampert: bar :celebi: (more on that later), so any chip goes a long way.
Thunderbolt is probably the most "novel" choice on our :tyranitar:, but it makes a good amount of sense here. We need a move to hit :skarmory: hard for a potential :salamence: sweep, as well as to generally minimize the amount of Spikes and chip the bird gets to spread. That usually takes the place of Flamethrower/Fire Blast, but Thunderbolt also gives us a stronger hit into Water-types like :suicune: or :milotic:, who often like to come in on a mixed :tyranitar:'s weak Hidden Power Grass and reverse momentum.
Losing a Fire move means we can't hit :metagross: very hard, but with :swampert:, :forretress:, and :flareon:, that isn't a huge deal. Brick Break is here for opposing :tyranitar: and to pressure :blissey: alongside Spikes, two very important roles.
I think better EVs probably exist out in the ether somewhere, but I figured hitting as hard and fast as possible was generally a safe play.
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 88 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
I opted for a Wish + Protect build in order to ensure it could reliably and repeatedly wall mons like :gengar:, :celebi:, :moltres:, and :charizard:. In addition to supporting itself, Wish provides some longevity to teammates like :celebi: and :swampert:, who can use the extra longevity when switching into the offensive Water-types (:suicune:, :starmie:, :swampert:) and physical threats (:tyranitar:, :aerodactyl:, :salamence:), respectively.
Toxic is a natural pairing with the Wish + Protect combo, and it's a great way to pressure just about everything that Flamethrower doesn't. I'll leave some notable calcs below, but the EV spread I opted for is a good mix of bulk, speed, and power.
168 Speed puts you at 208, which is just enough to outspeed :marowak:, as well as the many :metagross: that stay under that benchmark. Speaking of :metagross:, 88+ Special Attack is just enough to guarantee an OHKO on standard Agility sets after 3 layers of Spikes. That seemed like a solid enough benchmark for me, as it left 252 EVs to throw into HP, which :flareon: appreciates given its naturally high Special Defense. It also caps a Timid :zapdos:'s Thunderbolt below 50%.
I was honestly surprised at how well this spread worked out. I didn't often find myself looking for more speed or power, but sometimes some extra bulk may have been appreciated.
Some other moves that may be worth considering on :flareon: could be Roar, Sub + Baton Pass, Overheat, and Hidden Power Fighting/Grass/Electric. None of those options really stuck with this particular team idea, but I could see them working on something else.
:flareon:'s unique defensive profile has been very useful here. The things it answers are generally pretty tough to check. Having Flash Fire especially is a great way to reverse momentum against things like :moltres:, :charizard:, and even mixed :tyranitar:/:salamence:. Wish + Toxic means you can stall a lot of these mixed attackers out, which has been really cool.
One thing I will say about :flareon: is that it can be a bit passive, in that it can't punish a Water-type switching in with more than a Toxic. :starmie: in particular has been very annoying for this team, but I don't think that's completely :flareon:'s fault.
My original team idea had :celebi: replaced by :registeel: as a Water answer that really appreciated Wishes, but :swampert: became a huge issue for that team.
Overall, :flareon: patches up some big holes that typical :forretress: offense teams struggle with, and I'm really happy with its place on this team.
Notable calcs:
88+ SpA Flareon Flamethrower vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 260-306 (75.8 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes
252 SpA 30 IVs Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 140-165 (41.9 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 79-94 (23.6 - 28.1%) -- 90.9% chance to 4HKO
88+ SpA Flareon Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Celebi: 221-260 (64.8 - 76.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes
252+ SpA 30 IVs Celebi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 124-147 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 302-356 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
88+ SpA Flareon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Registeel: 132-156 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA 30 IVs Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 118-139 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 76 SpD / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
The biggest is probably the :swampert: of it all, as that gal is otherwise a huge pain to switch into on this team. In general, though, a Leech + 3 Attacks set is nice here in that it keeps a lot of offensive momentum rolling.
Leech Seed is great at slowing things like :suicune:, :snorlax:, :zapdos:, or :blissey: down for the rest of your team to better handle them. Paired with Spikes, it becomes an actually threatening move, as it often puts your opponent in a lose/lose situation: either giving you value with the Leech or taking extra damage on the switch.
Giga Drain is here to hit :swampert:, :starmie:, and, to a lesser extent, :tyranitar: and :suicune: hard. The first two especially aren't handled particularly well by anyone else on the team, so hitting them hard and fast is invaluable.
Fire is here to hit opposing :celebi: and to put damage on :skarmory: if it wants to try and set up Spikes on you.
Psychic is finally here as a strong neutral move into :salamence:, :charizard:, and :moltres: switching in, as well as a big hit on :gengar: or Fighting-types (:machamp:, :heracross:, :hariyama:).
All of :charizard:, :moltres:, and :gengar: are handled by :flareon:, but it's still not a good idea to give them free entry, as relying on :flareon: consistently gets a bit dicey with sand and Spikes up.
With that being said, Psychic is probably the most droppable move on this set, and I could see Recover working as a way to keep :celebi: around longer in the game to answer problem mons.
Here I'm just using standard Leech + 3 Attacks EVs, but dropping some Special Attack for HP/Special Defense to have a better matchup into the Water-types :flareon: invites in may be worth considering.
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
Explosion feels pretty mandatory for me on these types of teams, as it can help :forretress: feel useful in the matchups where being a Spikes bot isn't enough. Trading into a :suicune:, :blissey:, or :salamence: always feels good.
The last two moves feel a little bit more up in the air. I went with Rapid Spin because a lot of our team is grounded, so a midgame spin offers a lot of reprieve. The final move was Hidden Power Bug, as it's :forretress:'s most consistent damage and ensures it can keep its Spikes up against :claydol: and :starmie:.
This coverage does leave you pretty vulnerable to :gengar:, :charizard:/ :moltres:, and Peck :skarmory: without Zap Cannon. Again, :flareon: helps solve a lot of these issues, but it still may be nice to fit Zap Cannon in there.
Some other moves worth considering here would be Earthquake/Counter, as :forretress: is often tasked with switching into :metagross:, and hitting :magneton: always helps.
It always feels like :forretress: needs 8 move slots, but that just kinda comes with the territory. In general, though, what :forretress: does is irreplaceable, and as such, it's a big part of this team.
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 228 Atk / 144 SpD / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
Taking a free turn after :flareon:, :tyranitar:, or :celebi: gets trapped can be a huge deal if you've already strewn an ample amount of carnage. Nothing quite cleans up a game like this guy, and the rest of the team really appreciates an Earthquake immunity.
Not too much to say here; this guy seems pretty straightforward. I like this EV spread to live things like weak :gengar: Ice Punch and some :swampert: Ice Beams, two things that can easily be the difference between winning and losing a game.
For coverage, I went with Rock Slide because the team doesn't really lure :zapdos: and :aerodactyl: particularly well. Hidden Power Flying is here because the strong neutral damage into :swampert:, :suicune:, :claydol:, and :starmie: is a pretty big deal, and Brick Break is here to punish the greedy :blissey: teams that are so popular.
Losing Earthquake's coverage into :metagross: and :jirachi: is never fun, but :flareon: is a great way to get damage on them. Perhaps a Fire move on :tyranitar: and Earthquake on :forretress: could be something to try if you find yourself losing to those pesky Steel/Psychics, but in my experience, the coverage has felt nice.
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Relaxed Nature
She's the necessary Rock resist, being our main line of defense against :tyranitar:, :aerodactyl:, :salamence:, and :metagross:. While by no means permanent, she gives us the time to enact our offense before we crumple defensively.
I decided to pump her with a bunch of bulk and use the standard defensive EVs (living :zapdos: Hidden Power Grass then maximizing Defense).
Earthquake, Ice Beam, and Hydro Pump are no-brainers, as that coverage hits the entire tier for at least neutral damage. My fourth move of choice here was Curse, in order to help in the fat matchup, providing a way to get past :suicune: and :blissey:. Occasionally you'll win a game with this gal, especially if you position her in front of a Leeched opponent as she's setting up.
Normally, Protect is mandatory on these :swampert: sets, but with the Wish support of :flareon:, I think you're allowed to get away with a greedier set.
Overall, this team has been a ton of fun to pilot and has felt pretty capable in the games I've brought it into.
I will say that offensive Water-types, particularly :starmie: and :suicune:, give this team trouble, but I'm not sure how to fix that without making some drastic changes.
I think there's a genuine place for :flareon: on these :forretress: offense teams, and I really implore some better builders than me to take their shot at it. Fitting :registeel: especially seems powerful, as it's great at inviting in guys :flareon: can feast on.
With that in mind, though, I'll attach some replays and look forward to any feedback/ideas anyone else has!
Friendly/Testing vs. Muteki
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2701985911
Ladder Game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2699401482
Revival vs. Soro
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3ou-983296
No Johns vs. FJ2K
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3ou-985134
https://pokepast.es/e5f095b137e2ef2e
Hey y'all! This was something I was making for the Fire-type teambuilding competition, but I didn't quite get around to writing it up at the time. This is a team I've been having a ton of fun with, and I've had a decent amount of success with it. With that being said, it isn't perfect and has some issues I'll talk about later, but I think it does a really good job of supporting the featured mon, :flareon:!
My original idea was to use :flareon: on a sort of Spikes offense team, since those teams appreciate a :gengar: switch-in and can use the Wish support to strengthen their defensive pieces. With that in mind, let's hop into the specifics.
:tyranitar:
Tyranitar @ LeftoversAbility: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Crunch
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thunderbolt
- Brick Break
I went with Crunch because having a strong hit on :gengar: is pretty essential on these types of teams. Hitting :claydol: is nice for our :salamence: and :flareon:, and it's just generally the strongest move :tyranitar: can use. Grass is here for :swampert:, as it's one of the things lead :tyranitar: is most likely to draw in. This team doesn't have a great time switching into opposing :swampert: bar :celebi: (more on that later), so any chip goes a long way.
Thunderbolt is probably the most "novel" choice on our :tyranitar:, but it makes a good amount of sense here. We need a move to hit :skarmory: hard for a potential :salamence: sweep, as well as to generally minimize the amount of Spikes and chip the bird gets to spread. That usually takes the place of Flamethrower/Fire Blast, but Thunderbolt also gives us a stronger hit into Water-types like :suicune: or :milotic:, who often like to come in on a mixed :tyranitar:'s weak Hidden Power Grass and reverse momentum.
Losing a Fire move means we can't hit :metagross: very hard, but with :swampert:, :forretress:, and :flareon:, that isn't a huge deal. Brick Break is here for opposing :tyranitar: and to pressure :blissey: alongside Spikes, two very important roles.
I think better EVs probably exist out in the ether somewhere, but I figured hitting as hard and fast as possible was generally a safe play.
:flareon:
Flareon @ LeftoversAbility: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 88 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
I opted for a Wish + Protect build in order to ensure it could reliably and repeatedly wall mons like :gengar:, :celebi:, :moltres:, and :charizard:. In addition to supporting itself, Wish provides some longevity to teammates like :celebi: and :swampert:, who can use the extra longevity when switching into the offensive Water-types (:suicune:, :starmie:, :swampert:) and physical threats (:tyranitar:, :aerodactyl:, :salamence:), respectively.
Toxic is a natural pairing with the Wish + Protect combo, and it's a great way to pressure just about everything that Flamethrower doesn't. I'll leave some notable calcs below, but the EV spread I opted for is a good mix of bulk, speed, and power.
168 Speed puts you at 208, which is just enough to outspeed :marowak:, as well as the many :metagross: that stay under that benchmark. Speaking of :metagross:, 88+ Special Attack is just enough to guarantee an OHKO on standard Agility sets after 3 layers of Spikes. That seemed like a solid enough benchmark for me, as it left 252 EVs to throw into HP, which :flareon: appreciates given its naturally high Special Defense. It also caps a Timid :zapdos:'s Thunderbolt below 50%.
I was honestly surprised at how well this spread worked out. I didn't often find myself looking for more speed or power, but sometimes some extra bulk may have been appreciated.
Some other moves that may be worth considering on :flareon: could be Roar, Sub + Baton Pass, Overheat, and Hidden Power Fighting/Grass/Electric. None of those options really stuck with this particular team idea, but I could see them working on something else.
:flareon:'s unique defensive profile has been very useful here. The things it answers are generally pretty tough to check. Having Flash Fire especially is a great way to reverse momentum against things like :moltres:, :charizard:, and even mixed :tyranitar:/:salamence:. Wish + Toxic means you can stall a lot of these mixed attackers out, which has been really cool.
One thing I will say about :flareon: is that it can be a bit passive, in that it can't punish a Water-type switching in with more than a Toxic. :starmie: in particular has been very annoying for this team, but I don't think that's completely :flareon:'s fault.
My original team idea had :celebi: replaced by :registeel: as a Water answer that really appreciated Wishes, but :swampert: became a huge issue for that team.
Overall, :flareon: patches up some big holes that typical :forretress: offense teams struggle with, and I'm really happy with its place on this team.
Notable calcs:
88+ SpA Flareon Flamethrower vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 260-306 (75.8 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes
252 SpA 30 IVs Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 140-165 (41.9 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 79-94 (23.6 - 28.1%) -- 90.9% chance to 4HKO
88+ SpA Flareon Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Celebi: 221-260 (64.8 - 76.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes
252+ SpA 30 IVs Celebi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 124-147 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 302-356 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
88+ SpA Flareon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Registeel: 132-156 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA 30 IVs Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 118-139 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
:celebi:
Celebi @ LeftoversAbility: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 76 SpD / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic
The biggest is probably the :swampert: of it all, as that gal is otherwise a huge pain to switch into on this team. In general, though, a Leech + 3 Attacks set is nice here in that it keeps a lot of offensive momentum rolling.
Leech Seed is great at slowing things like :suicune:, :snorlax:, :zapdos:, or :blissey: down for the rest of your team to better handle them. Paired with Spikes, it becomes an actually threatening move, as it often puts your opponent in a lose/lose situation: either giving you value with the Leech or taking extra damage on the switch.
Giga Drain is here to hit :swampert:, :starmie:, and, to a lesser extent, :tyranitar: and :suicune: hard. The first two especially aren't handled particularly well by anyone else on the team, so hitting them hard and fast is invaluable.
Fire is here to hit opposing :celebi: and to put damage on :skarmory: if it wants to try and set up Spikes on you.
Psychic is finally here as a strong neutral move into :salamence:, :charizard:, and :moltres: switching in, as well as a big hit on :gengar: or Fighting-types (:machamp:, :heracross:, :hariyama:).
All of :charizard:, :moltres:, and :gengar: are handled by :flareon:, but it's still not a good idea to give them free entry, as relying on :flareon: consistently gets a bit dicey with sand and Spikes up.
With that being said, Psychic is probably the most droppable move on this set, and I could see Recover working as a way to keep :celebi: around longer in the game to answer problem mons.
Here I'm just using standard Leech + 3 Attacks EVs, but dropping some Special Attack for HP/Special Defense to have a better matchup into the Water-types :flareon: invites in may be worth considering.
:forretress:
Forretress @ LeftoversAbility: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Explosion
Explosion feels pretty mandatory for me on these types of teams, as it can help :forretress: feel useful in the matchups where being a Spikes bot isn't enough. Trading into a :suicune:, :blissey:, or :salamence: always feels good.
The last two moves feel a little bit more up in the air. I went with Rapid Spin because a lot of our team is grounded, so a midgame spin offers a lot of reprieve. The final move was Hidden Power Bug, as it's :forretress:'s most consistent damage and ensures it can keep its Spikes up against :claydol: and :starmie:.
This coverage does leave you pretty vulnerable to :gengar:, :charizard:/ :moltres:, and Peck :skarmory: without Zap Cannon. Again, :flareon: helps solve a lot of these issues, but it still may be nice to fit Zap Cannon in there.
Some other moves worth considering here would be Earthquake/Counter, as :forretress: is often tasked with switching into :metagross:, and hitting :magneton: always helps.
It always feels like :forretress: needs 8 move slots, but that just kinda comes with the territory. In general, though, what :forretress: does is irreplaceable, and as such, it's a big part of this team.
:salamence:
Salamence @ LeftoversAbility: Intimidate
EVs: 228 Atk / 144 SpD / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Brick Break
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Flying]
Taking a free turn after :flareon:, :tyranitar:, or :celebi: gets trapped can be a huge deal if you've already strewn an ample amount of carnage. Nothing quite cleans up a game like this guy, and the rest of the team really appreciates an Earthquake immunity.
Not too much to say here; this guy seems pretty straightforward. I like this EV spread to live things like weak :gengar: Ice Punch and some :swampert: Ice Beams, two things that can easily be the difference between winning and losing a game.
For coverage, I went with Rock Slide because the team doesn't really lure :zapdos: and :aerodactyl: particularly well. Hidden Power Flying is here because the strong neutral damage into :swampert:, :suicune:, :claydol:, and :starmie: is a pretty big deal, and Brick Break is here to punish the greedy :blissey: teams that are so popular.
Losing Earthquake's coverage into :metagross: and :jirachi: is never fun, but :flareon: is a great way to get damage on them. Perhaps a Fire move on :tyranitar: and Earthquake on :forretress: could be something to try if you find yourself losing to those pesky Steel/Psychics, but in my experience, the coverage has felt nice.
:swampert:
Swampert @ LeftoversAbility: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Curse
- Hydro Pump
She's the necessary Rock resist, being our main line of defense against :tyranitar:, :aerodactyl:, :salamence:, and :metagross:. While by no means permanent, she gives us the time to enact our offense before we crumple defensively.
I decided to pump her with a bunch of bulk and use the standard defensive EVs (living :zapdos: Hidden Power Grass then maximizing Defense).
Earthquake, Ice Beam, and Hydro Pump are no-brainers, as that coverage hits the entire tier for at least neutral damage. My fourth move of choice here was Curse, in order to help in the fat matchup, providing a way to get past :suicune: and :blissey:. Occasionally you'll win a game with this gal, especially if you position her in front of a Leeched opponent as she's setting up.
Normally, Protect is mandatory on these :swampert: sets, but with the Wish support of :flareon:, I think you're allowed to get away with a greedier set.
Overall, this team has been a ton of fun to pilot and has felt pretty capable in the games I've brought it into.
I will say that offensive Water-types, particularly :starmie: and :suicune:, give this team trouble, but I'm not sure how to fix that without making some drastic changes.
I think there's a genuine place for :flareon: on these :forretress: offense teams, and I really implore some better builders than me to take their shot at it. Fitting :registeel: especially seems powerful, as it's great at inviting in guys :flareon: can feast on.
With that in mind, though, I'll attach some replays and look forward to any feedback/ideas anyone else has!
Friendly/Testing vs. Muteki
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2701985911
Ladder Game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2699401482
Revival vs. Soro
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3ou-983296
No Johns vs. FJ2K
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3ou-985134
