Introduction
I haven't made a thread on this website since I was a high schooler! I'm 24 now so, good times. When I was a kid I had a fascination, bordering on fixation with the Smogon RMT forum. At that time, I thought that teams were 99% of Pokemon and that being creative and smart in the team building stage meant I didn't need to work at all once the battle started. (Of course, I was surprised by the fact that I wasn't winning that much.) In fact, I was pretty much always a third-rate OU player, and never achieved any measure of top-level success.
Once NuggetBridge started up in 2013 I "quit" singles for good and became a VGC player, which is something I've done at various levels of seriousness since then, and I haven't really posted much since. That's good news for y'all, because I was a very difficult and annoying user, who would do almost anything for attention.
Quarantine gave me a lot of time with myself, and I began to revisit my tumultuous teenage emotions. This website was weird and traumatizing, but also one of my only semi-social spaces, and thus very valuable to me for that reason. So, I decided to kick around in my old stomping grounds, and try to get a sense for how gen 4 had changed in my prolonged absence. I've been playing it on and off for a few months, essentially using only a single team the entire time, and I was surprised by how rewarding the experience was! It turns out my fanatical obsession with Pokemon from that time in my life was still hard-wired into my brain, and after a bit of tinkering around I pretty much remembered the texture of singles. Ultimately, I was able to get as high as #10 on the DPP OU Showdown ladder, which is higher than I ever got on Shoddy Battle, PO, or anything else in my youth, even when I was playing for hours a day, every single day. There are a few different explanations for this:
An Anecdote, in Passing
In January 2020 I had been hanging out with my high school friends, one of whom is named Miki. During high school a running joke of ours was that Miki's Mom Kathleen was a MILF, and I was very attached to pointing this out at every available opportunity. It's funny how when you hang out with certain people, it changes how you act. Once I got home I must have been stuck in high-school-Smith mode, because I went on Pokemon Showdown (already rather strange), registered the alt "Kathleen is Bae," and started laddering singles. Once I got to top 100, I sent him a screenshot and said, "How high do I have to get for your Mom to divorce your dad and marry me instead?" He said "top 20 or gtfo," which was probably the only motivator I had to get past top 50, at which you start facing some actual Pokemon players every now and again. Needless to say, I am very happy in my new marriage and with my new stepson. If you wish, please DM me for an address if you want to send us steak knives or a rice cooker.
Okay, nobody look at the Glicko...
Team Development
This team literally started from me ransacking the DPP OU sample teams and messing with different stall configurations. I used to play with Lady Bug Stall a lot, so the Nidoqueen / Blissey / Skarmory core was very familiar to me, so I chose that one to play more in depth.
Call me old-fashioned, but... where's the spin blocker? I think the idea of this sample team was to just pursuit trap Starmie, so that it could only get one spin maximum. Still, this isn't so easy. Bulky Starmies could sometimes switch out of Pursuit (or even carry Colbur berry), or Tyranitar could take a Life Orb Hydro Pump on the switch, which meant that he had to get the Pursuit / Crunch 50/50 correct, since he can't do it twice. Also, Starmie isn't the only rapid spinner in the tier! I decided to take this team down a more "hard stall" route and put a Rotom over Jirachi. I really like Jirachi and it did a lot of work in the late game, but having a Rotom is just more important. I shoved Skarmory in the lead spot.
This particular iteration was good for chewing low-ladder, but around the 1400s I started to run into something you guys invented while I was gone: Clefable + Dugtrio. This core just absolutely ate me for breakfast. Also, I was fighting a lot of offensive Swamperts, like Life Orb Special or Choice Band. It put a little too much pressure on Skarmory. I decided to try Perish Song Celebi on the team, but who to replace? Ultimately, I decided Tyranitar was the most expendable slot. Tyranitar is one of the best Pokemon in DPP, but he wasn't pulling his weight at this time. His main job was to catch Scarfs and Pursuit, but he was a little too vulnerable to Spikes, and it didn't seem like enough to justify his slot. So, I put the scarf on Rotom and teched Celebi on.
This is the current version of the time, far from final. As we'll discuss with each individual mon, I think a lot of improvements are possible. It tries to play old-school, hard-stall, with all the strengths and weaknesses of that seemingly somewhat outdated archetype.
Closer Look
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird
- Roost
Skarmory is a comfort Pokemon for me, and probably my most used Pokemon over the years. They have a simple job that they like to do, even if they have some major problems. I don't like using Forretress due to lack of reliable recovery. I have a lot of respect for Roserade as a Pokemon, but they don't make a lot of sense with Nidoqueen. Skarmory is my spikes user and one of my "physical walls" (imagine very sarcastic air quotes.) Part of why I like using Nidoqueen and max defense Celebi with Skarmory is that it's nice having enough physical bulk that I don't feel like I have to make super-telegraphed switches to Skarmory all the time. Another upside is that I feel more comfortable using Leftovers instead of Shed Shell. I don't feel like it's the end of the world if I trade Skarmory in exchange for two sets of spikes against a hyper offense team (his EVs let him survive most Magnezone Thunderbolts), although maybe I should sometimes. Shed Shell is something I'm open to, but it feels so bad holding it whenever you're not facing a Magnezone! I already pointed out that the EVs let me survive Magnezone Thunderbolts, but they're also useful for Azelf Fire Blasts, Gengar Focus Blasts, Tyranitar Fire Blasts Latias Draco Meteors, etc. Like I said, the team already has a lot of physical defense so I think it's a reasonable tradeoff.
Do people still do lead matchup charts? Skarmory is not a very good lead, especially this one without Taunt. Let's take a look at some randomly curated leads.
Azelf: Not my best friend. Honestly, I usually just Brave Bird it. It's fine if it Taunts or Stealth Rocks, I want to break that sash, and a lot of times they U-turn (one time, right into a Breloom!) If they Fire Blast it isn't the end of the world because it usually means they aren't going to Stealth Rock next turn, AND that they don't have U-turn, so I can usually just go to Starmie and play from there.
Heatran: Also not my best friend. I tend to just switch to Starmie and dance around a possible Explosion with timely Rotom switches. I try not to bring Blissey in too early and get boomed on.
Aerodactyl: Starmie is a safe switch, but usually I just Spikes and make them Taunt me. It doesn't put a lot of pressure on me.
Swampert: Spikes!!! Not worried about big chief.
Machamp: Annoying. I have a tendency to just press Brave Bird because they have a tendency to just press Dynamic Punch. Not always the best trade, but that's just what I do.
Metagross: Spikes :) These like to go boom so sometimes I surprise switch back and forth between Skarmory and Rotom.
Bronzong: Just a less-threatening Metagross.
Skarmory: Not a good sign, because they are usually faster and have Taunt. I tend to just go to Starmie.
Roserade: I usually just stay in and try to wake up, lol. If they start setting up Toxic Spikes I'm not worried with Nidoqueen in the back. Spikes leads are more rare but more problematic, I have to let Nidoqueen take the sleep and switch back to Skarmory and spike back at them. Not always pleasant.
Zapdos: One thing's for sure- I'm NOT going to Blissey on the U-turn. Usually I just stay in and Spikes on the telegraphed U-turn (lol), but I'm sure the more correct play is to go Nidoqueen and fish for a poison. If Dugtrio comes in, Nidoqueen probably wasn't my most important mon in the matchup anyway. Just getting one Earthquake on Dugtrio means Blissey can usually Ice Beam it later anyway.
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Perish Song
- Grass Knot
- Recover
- U-turn
I like Celebi! I'm not sure if they're exactly "necessary" for the team to function but it's a nice addition. The big selling point is Perish Song. Celebi's job on the team is to help with CM Clefable, CM Jirachi, CM Suicune, basically any setup sweeper with recovery. Obviously, it's not an easy Pokemon to trap thanks to its typing and U-turn, which is nice because half my team is trap food. It's great to have a a nice easy Swampert pivot, and it also serves as a secondary check against Breloom, even if it doesn't have Psychic. One of Celebi's most important jobs is also to help in wearing down Starmie in Rapid Spin / Hydro Pump 50/50s. I like switching Celebi into Starmie rather than Blissey since Celebi actually puts pressure on Starmie with Grass Knot. Since Starmie's like to Hydro Pump early and try to catch Rotom switches, it's great to just switch Celebi in and cut off the Recover option that the Starmie would have against a Blissey, and force them to take more entry hazard damage later.
Max defense is important so that Celebi can cope with random U-turns, usually from opposing Flygons. The only thing that would make me consider adding some spdef is Life Orb Starmie Ice Beams chunking Celebi a lot, but all in all it doesn't bother me too much. A true "glue" mon.
Nidoqueen @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Protect
Nidoqueen is one of my favorite DPP mons to use. Her unusual typing and movepool let her serve as a great natural companion to SkarmBliss. Arguably, her most important job is to wall Breloom, Scizor and Lucario, who are physical attackers that nevertheless have the capability to muscle through Skarmory because of powerful fighting-type attacks. It is for this reason that I chose Flamethrower over Ice Beam- otherwise SD Scizor can really run train on this team. Her ability to absorb Toxic Spikes is, of course, super meaningful and helps a ton in stall vs stall matchups where I can't spin reliably, but nevertheless want to pivot to Blissey a lot. Speaking of Toxic Spikes, they honestly tend not to be very impactful in a lot of matchups, but I think they deserve a slot in the team regardless. They're good at wearing down Pokemon like Infernape, Tyranitar, or opposing Blissey, although I actually faced very few Blissey with this team (more on that later.) Protect looks sort of silly, but I think it deserves a place on the team. Nidoqueen has no recovery and the team has no Wish, so I think Protecting just to keep healing a little bit is nice. Also, surprisingly Flygon can be an issue for the team, since Skarmory often tanks the brunt of the damage in the early game. Protect is great so I can scout which move it's locking itself into. Poison Point makes it think twice about U-turning too rampantly, and oftentimes Poison Point + Protect is exactly how I deal with runaway Flygon in the lategame.
One little note on Black Sludge vs Leftovers- I've always just ran Black Sludge and not worried too much about Trick shenanigans. If my opponent catches a Black Sludge, I know they want to get rid of it, so usually Nidoqueen can just come right back in. To be honest, Blissey with a Black Sludge is better than a Blissey with a Choice Scarf!
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled
After using Blissey for a few months I totally understand why almost nobody is running her these days. It's a dangerous world for Blisseys! Every Pokemon is running Explosion, and a lot of teams have various ways to trap her and harass her (Magma Storm Heatran, Dugtrio, CB Pursuit Tyranitar for starters). To be honest, even though Blissey is not thriving in the current meta, dropping her was never a consideration. I know a lot has changed, but to me "gen 4 stall" just means you have a Blissey, so I wanted to make it work regardless. And to be honest, Blissey does a lot! She's usually capable of getting in within the first 5-10 turns and getting rocks up early, which is huge. Thunder Wave is also a great move to try and hit Jirachi or Gengar with. I've had a lot of experiences on the ladder where Jirachi are trying to Iron Head me, and I just roll the dice, trying to stay in and Thunder Wave them. This sounds pretty stupid but Iron Head only has a 60% flinch rate, and if I catch a break then the Jirachi is crippled for the rest of the game. In Pokemon you can't avoid luck, especially against Jirachi, so I think this is a reasonable chance to take sometimes. In general I want every Pokemon either paralyzed or poisoned. Ice Beam used to be Seismic Toss, but Ice Beam is one of the only ways my team deals with the otherwise extremely irritating Taunt Roost Gliscor sets, and is also great for breaking Gengar Substitutes and things like that. Naturally, it pairs well with Thunder Wave.
It's easy to see all the downsides of using Blissey, but all the old obvious upsides come into play. There really isn't a safer switch-in for Latias and friends now, since a lot of Latias are stuff like Specs Surf that can nail obvious switches like Scizor or Tyranitar.
Starmie @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 12 SpA / 16 SpD / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
Starmie has been sort of underwhelming for me to be honest, but I still consider that they have an important job. The team really needs a Rapid Spinner in case I do pull a stall vs stall matchup, and it also needs a reliable Heatran and Gyarados switch in. Super bulky Starmie seems like it might be a little old-fashioned and I've considered switching to a fast Life Orb version more than once. What has always made me hesitate are all the bulky Pursuit Tyranitars, carrying Custap Berries more often than not. On a team like this it's really not acceptable for me to have my rapid spinner trapped and easily killed in the early game when I don't even know half of my opponent's team. So, I've been running Colbur for a while. Obviously I miss Leftovers often, but I think it's worth the tradeoff. The lack of Leftovers recovery lets me fake choice items occasionally, getting some cheap spins, and it let's me switch out of Tyranitar without worrying too much. This is great if Nidoqueen has already managed to put Toxic Spikes on the ground, as I usually get a chance to get more layers up while Tyranitar weakens himself and tends to end up switching out. Starmie USED to also be one of my Jirachi switches when I wasn't sure what set they were running, but all of a sudden I started running into Thunder Jirachi on the high ladder, which obviously really decreases the impactfulness. Still, Starmie earns a place on this team by fighting tricky pokemon like Heatran, Gyarados, Jirachi and Tyranitar so that the rest of the team doesn't have to get and get muscled up by a weird coverage move.
Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Ice]
This is the stupidest set on the team. The whole point of a spin blocker is to be a reliable switch in for rapid spinners, which 4 hp Rotom is DEFINITELY not. Still, I consider that they have enough jobs to merit the choice. First of all, in my opinion this team needs a Scarf holder. Every team I face has something with Trick trying to cripple my Blissey, and I want to have a switch-in for that. As I already touched on with Nidoqueen, I don't consider Black Sludge a great choice for that, since it usually lands back on my bench anyhow. Second of all, this Pokemon with Trick is a secondary check to Clefable and friends, all the setup sweepers that want to make life miserable for me in the lategame, especially if Celebi goes down. Most importantly, the Scarf role on this team is critical for offense teams. Rotom is a big pivot in the fight against Infernape, Gengar, Dragonite, LO Flygon, etc. The unusual (read: stupid) moveset helps me cheese out wins against these sets on the ladder, but I don't consider Shadow Ball hugely important anyway. I wish I had it against stall Rotoms, but they're usually behind a Substitute anyway. Hydro Pump is better for catching Tyranitar or Heatran on the switch- if Tyranitar can switch into Rotom too easily, usually the whole stall falls apart, so even though I don't use it a lot, I like to keep it.
Scarf Rotom is a hugely mixed bag. They're very valuable and important for facing dragonspam or other pure offense teams, but often a huge liability against balanced Starmie builds. One change I would consider making is bulking down the EV spread, with more of an emphasis on jettisoning the Scarf as early as possible and playing a plausible semi-bulky Rotom. Still, I think with precise play, this Rotom can do what it needs to do. The important thing is not to switch it too wantonly into Starmie- Spikes are temporary, neutral damage on a 4 hp Rotom is forever.
Problem Pokemon
These are the tender weaknesses of the team in my experience. I'm sure more are possible.
Dragonite: Figuring out its set usually costs me a lot of damage. The Choice Band sets with Magnezone just eat me alive and are a big part of my consideration to run Shed Shell on Skarmory- but I'm not sure how well a Shed Shell Skarmory can fight Choice Band Dragonite anyway. Celebi can usually chunk the hits decently, but it's a very unpleasant matchup. Sometimes I have to sac a mon to bring Rotom in.
Flygon: Mysteriously, Flygon can be difficult to deal with. The crux of the problem is their immunity to Spikes, Toxic Spikes AND Thunder Wave.The Scarf sets aren't super scary, but Life Orb Flygon is rather difficult and one of the main reasons I run Ice Beam on Blissey.
Magnezone: Specifically, the sets with Explosion. If they trap Skarmory and boom on Blissey, usually the game is lost. I try to switch Nidoqueen into these, but that usually means I don't get Stealth Rock up and then Dragonite gets too free a hand.
Starmie + Tyranitar: Just a bad matchup. I have three Pokemon weak to Pursuit, and I'm usually unable to put a lot of pressure on Starmie. I try to play Celebi more aggressively in this matchup and really press Grass Knot a lot, but it can get out of hand if I'm not very careful.
Tentacruel: Knock Off Tentacruel is just not a fun time. I usually let Skarmory take the Knock Off and try to get Rotom in, but the inability to Trick vs the Black Sludge really sucks.
Jirachi: Only because of Thunder. Nidoqueen can't really fight an Iron Head vs Earthquake battle and everything else gets manhandled. Sometimes my actual best bet is to go to Blissey and try to Thunder Wave them. Very sad.
Pain Split ghosts: Seemingly almost an autoloss. Spdef Skarmory helps against Gengar, but against Rotom I'm totally at a loss, especially if that have Shadow Ball (some don't.) This matchup was a consideration when Tyranitar was on the team, but I don't know if Tyranitar does enough otherwise to justify coming back.
Conclusion
It was fun dipping my feet back into my old metagame! The team is far from over but if you want to take it for a spin on the ladder, I hope my thoughts and observations have been valuable. I'm not sure when the next time I play a Smogon metagame will be, but please offer suggestions and feedback anyway, as I'm sure that this team or some variation of it will always be my main DPP team. Thanks for reading.
I haven't made a thread on this website since I was a high schooler! I'm 24 now so, good times. When I was a kid I had a fascination, bordering on fixation with the Smogon RMT forum. At that time, I thought that teams were 99% of Pokemon and that being creative and smart in the team building stage meant I didn't need to work at all once the battle started. (Of course, I was surprised by the fact that I wasn't winning that much.) In fact, I was pretty much always a third-rate OU player, and never achieved any measure of top-level success.
Once NuggetBridge started up in 2013 I "quit" singles for good and became a VGC player, which is something I've done at various levels of seriousness since then, and I haven't really posted much since. That's good news for y'all, because I was a very difficult and annoying user, who would do almost anything for attention.
Quarantine gave me a lot of time with myself, and I began to revisit my tumultuous teenage emotions. This website was weird and traumatizing, but also one of my only semi-social spaces, and thus very valuable to me for that reason. So, I decided to kick around in my old stomping grounds, and try to get a sense for how gen 4 had changed in my prolonged absence. I've been playing it on and off for a few months, essentially using only a single team the entire time, and I was surprised by how rewarding the experience was! It turns out my fanatical obsession with Pokemon from that time in my life was still hard-wired into my brain, and after a bit of tinkering around I pretty much remembered the texture of singles. Ultimately, I was able to get as high as #10 on the DPP OU Showdown ladder, which is higher than I ever got on Shoddy Battle, PO, or anything else in my youth, even when I was playing for hours a day, every single day. There are a few different explanations for this:
- Salamence is banned
- There are WAY fewer people playing DPP OU than there were eight years ago
- I'm more mature and level-headed than I was a kid, which helped me not tilt and play more rationally
- Having played other metas and having stolen a lot of teams in that time (and having my teams stolen), I learned that teambuilding =/= skill. You'd think this would be obvious, but I was a kid what do you want.
An Anecdote, in Passing
In January 2020 I had been hanging out with my high school friends, one of whom is named Miki. During high school a running joke of ours was that Miki's Mom Kathleen was a MILF, and I was very attached to pointing this out at every available opportunity. It's funny how when you hang out with certain people, it changes how you act. Once I got home I must have been stuck in high-school-Smith mode, because I went on Pokemon Showdown (already rather strange), registered the alt "Kathleen is Bae," and started laddering singles. Once I got to top 100, I sent him a screenshot and said, "How high do I have to get for your Mom to divorce your dad and marry me instead?" He said "top 20 or gtfo," which was probably the only motivator I had to get past top 50, at which you start facing some actual Pokemon players every now and again. Needless to say, I am very happy in my new marriage and with my new stepson. If you wish, please DM me for an address if you want to send us steak knives or a rice cooker.
Okay, nobody look at the Glicko...
Team Development
This team literally started from me ransacking the DPP OU sample teams and messing with different stall configurations. I used to play with Lady Bug Stall a lot, so the Nidoqueen / Blissey / Skarmory core was very familiar to me, so I chose that one to play more in depth.
Call me old-fashioned, but... where's the spin blocker? I think the idea of this sample team was to just pursuit trap Starmie, so that it could only get one spin maximum. Still, this isn't so easy. Bulky Starmies could sometimes switch out of Pursuit (or even carry Colbur berry), or Tyranitar could take a Life Orb Hydro Pump on the switch, which meant that he had to get the Pursuit / Crunch 50/50 correct, since he can't do it twice. Also, Starmie isn't the only rapid spinner in the tier! I decided to take this team down a more "hard stall" route and put a Rotom over Jirachi. I really like Jirachi and it did a lot of work in the late game, but having a Rotom is just more important. I shoved Skarmory in the lead spot.
This particular iteration was good for chewing low-ladder, but around the 1400s I started to run into something you guys invented while I was gone: Clefable + Dugtrio. This core just absolutely ate me for breakfast. Also, I was fighting a lot of offensive Swamperts, like Life Orb Special or Choice Band. It put a little too much pressure on Skarmory. I decided to try Perish Song Celebi on the team, but who to replace? Ultimately, I decided Tyranitar was the most expendable slot. Tyranitar is one of the best Pokemon in DPP, but he wasn't pulling his weight at this time. His main job was to catch Scarfs and Pursuit, but he was a little too vulnerable to Spikes, and it didn't seem like enough to justify his slot. So, I put the scarf on Rotom and teched Celebi on.
This is the current version of the time, far from final. As we'll discuss with each individual mon, I think a lot of improvements are possible. It tries to play old-school, hard-stall, with all the strengths and weaknesses of that seemingly somewhat outdated archetype.
Closer Look
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird
- Roost
Skarmory is a comfort Pokemon for me, and probably my most used Pokemon over the years. They have a simple job that they like to do, even if they have some major problems. I don't like using Forretress due to lack of reliable recovery. I have a lot of respect for Roserade as a Pokemon, but they don't make a lot of sense with Nidoqueen. Skarmory is my spikes user and one of my "physical walls" (imagine very sarcastic air quotes.) Part of why I like using Nidoqueen and max defense Celebi with Skarmory is that it's nice having enough physical bulk that I don't feel like I have to make super-telegraphed switches to Skarmory all the time. Another upside is that I feel more comfortable using Leftovers instead of Shed Shell. I don't feel like it's the end of the world if I trade Skarmory in exchange for two sets of spikes against a hyper offense team (his EVs let him survive most Magnezone Thunderbolts), although maybe I should sometimes. Shed Shell is something I'm open to, but it feels so bad holding it whenever you're not facing a Magnezone! I already pointed out that the EVs let me survive Magnezone Thunderbolts, but they're also useful for Azelf Fire Blasts, Gengar Focus Blasts, Tyranitar Fire Blasts Latias Draco Meteors, etc. Like I said, the team already has a lot of physical defense so I think it's a reasonable tradeoff.
Do people still do lead matchup charts? Skarmory is not a very good lead, especially this one without Taunt. Let's take a look at some randomly curated leads.
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Perish Song
- Grass Knot
- Recover
- U-turn
I like Celebi! I'm not sure if they're exactly "necessary" for the team to function but it's a nice addition. The big selling point is Perish Song. Celebi's job on the team is to help with CM Clefable, CM Jirachi, CM Suicune, basically any setup sweeper with recovery. Obviously, it's not an easy Pokemon to trap thanks to its typing and U-turn, which is nice because half my team is trap food. It's great to have a a nice easy Swampert pivot, and it also serves as a secondary check against Breloom, even if it doesn't have Psychic. One of Celebi's most important jobs is also to help in wearing down Starmie in Rapid Spin / Hydro Pump 50/50s. I like switching Celebi into Starmie rather than Blissey since Celebi actually puts pressure on Starmie with Grass Knot. Since Starmie's like to Hydro Pump early and try to catch Rotom switches, it's great to just switch Celebi in and cut off the Recover option that the Starmie would have against a Blissey, and force them to take more entry hazard damage later.
Max defense is important so that Celebi can cope with random U-turns, usually from opposing Flygons. The only thing that would make me consider adding some spdef is Life Orb Starmie Ice Beams chunking Celebi a lot, but all in all it doesn't bother me too much. A true "glue" mon.
Nidoqueen @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Protect
Nidoqueen is one of my favorite DPP mons to use. Her unusual typing and movepool let her serve as a great natural companion to SkarmBliss. Arguably, her most important job is to wall Breloom, Scizor and Lucario, who are physical attackers that nevertheless have the capability to muscle through Skarmory because of powerful fighting-type attacks. It is for this reason that I chose Flamethrower over Ice Beam- otherwise SD Scizor can really run train on this team. Her ability to absorb Toxic Spikes is, of course, super meaningful and helps a ton in stall vs stall matchups where I can't spin reliably, but nevertheless want to pivot to Blissey a lot. Speaking of Toxic Spikes, they honestly tend not to be very impactful in a lot of matchups, but I think they deserve a slot in the team regardless. They're good at wearing down Pokemon like Infernape, Tyranitar, or opposing Blissey, although I actually faced very few Blissey with this team (more on that later.) Protect looks sort of silly, but I think it deserves a place on the team. Nidoqueen has no recovery and the team has no Wish, so I think Protecting just to keep healing a little bit is nice. Also, surprisingly Flygon can be an issue for the team, since Skarmory often tanks the brunt of the damage in the early game. Protect is great so I can scout which move it's locking itself into. Poison Point makes it think twice about U-turning too rampantly, and oftentimes Poison Point + Protect is exactly how I deal with runaway Flygon in the lategame.
One little note on Black Sludge vs Leftovers- I've always just ran Black Sludge and not worried too much about Trick shenanigans. If my opponent catches a Black Sludge, I know they want to get rid of it, so usually Nidoqueen can just come right back in. To be honest, Blissey with a Black Sludge is better than a Blissey with a Choice Scarf!
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled
After using Blissey for a few months I totally understand why almost nobody is running her these days. It's a dangerous world for Blisseys! Every Pokemon is running Explosion, and a lot of teams have various ways to trap her and harass her (Magma Storm Heatran, Dugtrio, CB Pursuit Tyranitar for starters). To be honest, even though Blissey is not thriving in the current meta, dropping her was never a consideration. I know a lot has changed, but to me "gen 4 stall" just means you have a Blissey, so I wanted to make it work regardless. And to be honest, Blissey does a lot! She's usually capable of getting in within the first 5-10 turns and getting rocks up early, which is huge. Thunder Wave is also a great move to try and hit Jirachi or Gengar with. I've had a lot of experiences on the ladder where Jirachi are trying to Iron Head me, and I just roll the dice, trying to stay in and Thunder Wave them. This sounds pretty stupid but Iron Head only has a 60% flinch rate, and if I catch a break then the Jirachi is crippled for the rest of the game. In Pokemon you can't avoid luck, especially against Jirachi, so I think this is a reasonable chance to take sometimes. In general I want every Pokemon either paralyzed or poisoned. Ice Beam used to be Seismic Toss, but Ice Beam is one of the only ways my team deals with the otherwise extremely irritating Taunt Roost Gliscor sets, and is also great for breaking Gengar Substitutes and things like that. Naturally, it pairs well with Thunder Wave.
It's easy to see all the downsides of using Blissey, but all the old obvious upsides come into play. There really isn't a safer switch-in for Latias and friends now, since a lot of Latias are stuff like Specs Surf that can nail obvious switches like Scizor or Tyranitar.
Starmie @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 12 SpA / 16 SpD / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
Starmie has been sort of underwhelming for me to be honest, but I still consider that they have an important job. The team really needs a Rapid Spinner in case I do pull a stall vs stall matchup, and it also needs a reliable Heatran and Gyarados switch in. Super bulky Starmie seems like it might be a little old-fashioned and I've considered switching to a fast Life Orb version more than once. What has always made me hesitate are all the bulky Pursuit Tyranitars, carrying Custap Berries more often than not. On a team like this it's really not acceptable for me to have my rapid spinner trapped and easily killed in the early game when I don't even know half of my opponent's team. So, I've been running Colbur for a while. Obviously I miss Leftovers often, but I think it's worth the tradeoff. The lack of Leftovers recovery lets me fake choice items occasionally, getting some cheap spins, and it let's me switch out of Tyranitar without worrying too much. This is great if Nidoqueen has already managed to put Toxic Spikes on the ground, as I usually get a chance to get more layers up while Tyranitar weakens himself and tends to end up switching out. Starmie USED to also be one of my Jirachi switches when I wasn't sure what set they were running, but all of a sudden I started running into Thunder Jirachi on the high ladder, which obviously really decreases the impactfulness. Still, Starmie earns a place on this team by fighting tricky pokemon like Heatran, Gyarados, Jirachi and Tyranitar so that the rest of the team doesn't have to get and get muscled up by a weird coverage move.
Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Ice]
This is the stupidest set on the team. The whole point of a spin blocker is to be a reliable switch in for rapid spinners, which 4 hp Rotom is DEFINITELY not. Still, I consider that they have enough jobs to merit the choice. First of all, in my opinion this team needs a Scarf holder. Every team I face has something with Trick trying to cripple my Blissey, and I want to have a switch-in for that. As I already touched on with Nidoqueen, I don't consider Black Sludge a great choice for that, since it usually lands back on my bench anyhow. Second of all, this Pokemon with Trick is a secondary check to Clefable and friends, all the setup sweepers that want to make life miserable for me in the lategame, especially if Celebi goes down. Most importantly, the Scarf role on this team is critical for offense teams. Rotom is a big pivot in the fight against Infernape, Gengar, Dragonite, LO Flygon, etc. The unusual (read: stupid) moveset helps me cheese out wins against these sets on the ladder, but I don't consider Shadow Ball hugely important anyway. I wish I had it against stall Rotoms, but they're usually behind a Substitute anyway. Hydro Pump is better for catching Tyranitar or Heatran on the switch- if Tyranitar can switch into Rotom too easily, usually the whole stall falls apart, so even though I don't use it a lot, I like to keep it.
Scarf Rotom is a hugely mixed bag. They're very valuable and important for facing dragonspam or other pure offense teams, but often a huge liability against balanced Starmie builds. One change I would consider making is bulking down the EV spread, with more of an emphasis on jettisoning the Scarf as early as possible and playing a plausible semi-bulky Rotom. Still, I think with precise play, this Rotom can do what it needs to do. The important thing is not to switch it too wantonly into Starmie- Spikes are temporary, neutral damage on a 4 hp Rotom is forever.
Problem Pokemon
These are the tender weaknesses of the team in my experience. I'm sure more are possible.
Dragonite: Figuring out its set usually costs me a lot of damage. The Choice Band sets with Magnezone just eat me alive and are a big part of my consideration to run Shed Shell on Skarmory- but I'm not sure how well a Shed Shell Skarmory can fight Choice Band Dragonite anyway. Celebi can usually chunk the hits decently, but it's a very unpleasant matchup. Sometimes I have to sac a mon to bring Rotom in.
Flygon: Mysteriously, Flygon can be difficult to deal with. The crux of the problem is their immunity to Spikes, Toxic Spikes AND Thunder Wave.The Scarf sets aren't super scary, but Life Orb Flygon is rather difficult and one of the main reasons I run Ice Beam on Blissey.
Magnezone: Specifically, the sets with Explosion. If they trap Skarmory and boom on Blissey, usually the game is lost. I try to switch Nidoqueen into these, but that usually means I don't get Stealth Rock up and then Dragonite gets too free a hand.
Starmie + Tyranitar: Just a bad matchup. I have three Pokemon weak to Pursuit, and I'm usually unable to put a lot of pressure on Starmie. I try to play Celebi more aggressively in this matchup and really press Grass Knot a lot, but it can get out of hand if I'm not very careful.
Tentacruel: Knock Off Tentacruel is just not a fun time. I usually let Skarmory take the Knock Off and try to get Rotom in, but the inability to Trick vs the Black Sludge really sucks.
Jirachi: Only because of Thunder. Nidoqueen can't really fight an Iron Head vs Earthquake battle and everything else gets manhandled. Sometimes my actual best bet is to go to Blissey and try to Thunder Wave them. Very sad.
Pain Split ghosts: Seemingly almost an autoloss. Spdef Skarmory helps against Gengar, but against Rotom I'm totally at a loss, especially if that have Shadow Ball (some don't.) This matchup was a consideration when Tyranitar was on the team, but I don't know if Tyranitar does enough otherwise to justify coming back.
Conclusion
It was fun dipping my feet back into my old metagame! The team is far from over but if you want to take it for a spin on the ladder, I hope my thoughts and observations have been valuable. I'm not sure when the next time I play a Smogon metagame will be, but please offer suggestions and feedback anyway, as I'm sure that this team or some variation of it will always be my main DPP team. Thanks for reading.
