Announcement np: SV OU Suspect Process, Round 10 - London Bridge is Falling Down

[Finchinator]

Hello everyone, the OU tiering council has decided to test Archaludon!

Archaludon is one of the newest additions to the metagame, surfacing as an Indigo Disk washed up on the shores of Paldea this past December! DLC2 shot out like a cannon, electrifying the metagame with meteoric implications. After a slow start, Archaludon's Stamina proved worthwhile, fortifying it as one of the most reliable bodies to apply consistent pressure on Rain teams. Dealing draconian damage as the cornerstone of the metagame's most flashy archetype, it should be no surprise that Archaludon is among the biggest powerhouses in SV OU!

Regarding the decision and process, the SV OU council has determined that Archaludon is worthy of a suspect testing. This suspect is the result of a council consensus to act on Archaludon; it would be an abuse of power to push through a quickban without consulting the public at this specific stage in the metagame, but a suspect test allows for the playerbase to determine Archaludon's fate.

While it is true that Archaludon received only limited support during the last tiering survey, the metagame has shifted a lot over the last three weeks. Rain teams featuring Archaludon saw a substantial uptick in usage and effectiveness while metagame adaptations have hardly slowed down Archaludon's dominance. We will get more into the specifics of Archaludon's presence later in the post, but the intention is to keep surveys regular without abusing their place in tiering. Having a survey every other week, for example, is an overapplication of the process. Finding a comfortable middleground where they happen every month or even every six weeks allows for us to regularly check-in on the metagame's focal topics while still giving us room to tier when needed before, during, or after survey periods.

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon also received a suspect test despite low survey scores (nearly identical to that of Archaludon) after optimal applications of it surfaced in the metagame only after an initial survey. Of course, Archaludon is nowhere near as blatantly broken as Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, which received over 90% support to ban, but there has undoubtebly been a shift in the metagame and an outcry for some form of tiering action. This gives us the freedom to adapt our tiering process to a constantly adapting metagame while still letting the playerbase decide outcomes.

Regarding Archaludon's presence and suspect reasoning, Archaludon is a staple on Rain teams. You typically see it use a set featuring Electro Shot, a signature move that thrives in Rain. Electro Shot does not require a charging turn when it is Raining, deals damage reflecting the Special Attack boost the move gives, and comes off of a strong base power with the complimentary Electric type coverage. This paired with Draco Meteor and Flash Cannon allows for Archaludon to hit the vast majority of the metagame with special attacks alone. The combination of Stamina and Body Press allow for Archaludon to hit specific special walls like Blissey and Tyranitar or Steel types like Kingambit, Iron Treads, and Excadrill. Earthquake is also an option to hit these Pokemon aside from Blissey while also catching Clodsire, which is otherwise seen as the lone counter to Archaludon.

You frequently see Archaludon using Assault Vest, which helps bolster its otherwise lackluster special defense. This coupled with fantstic natural bulk on the physical end, a practical defensive typing, and Stamnia makes it very hard to take out. For reference, Archaludon is able to live Close Combat from Zamazenta, Draco Meteor from Choice Specs Kyurem, and multiple Earthquake from Gliscor all with its standard set before you account for it potentially exhausting a Tera. Add on to this the fact that it commonly utilizes Tera Fairy, which provides a near-perfect compliment to its Dragon/Steel typing, and you get a Pokemon that is incredibly challenge to kill quickly that is capable of snowballing out of control offensively. In addition, options such as Leftovers can provide direct health relief if players do not feel a need for Assault Vest, which you also can see with Grassy Terrain.

While Archaludon has lots going for it, it is by no means a perfect Pokemon. Archaludon is nowhere near broken outside of Rain, making it reliant on support to make Electro Shot variants thrive. This is beyond your normal support, too, as Pelipper is a lackluster Pokemon that is only used to set Rain after all. This forces Archaudon to only work in limited contexts which can, to a certain extent, be abused. Rain teams are only used so often and only allow for certain Pokemon to fit after all. With this in mind, Rain has been one of the most dominant styles when it has been used, destroying the ladder and tournament play. It has forced us to teambuild very differently, contributing to the metagame approaching numerous extremes as balances cannot withstand the oversaturation of threats. For reference, here is how effective Rain has been through the first chunk of the SPL (Smogon Premier League) season, which is seen as one of the best OU tournaments each year:

This is nowhere near the full story though. Pokemon that are this reliant on support can be productive, but they need to achieve a higher threshold of efficiency in a shorter window in order to prove worthwhile; this very much applies to Archaludon, who is at its best on Rain teams. These Rain teams can be beaten and we have seen people adapt to other facets of Rain, for example, with an uptick in Water Absorb Wellspring, Volcanion, and Clodsire for Barraskewda or the rise in other weathers within the metagame to disrupt Rain. However, not many of these adaptations aside from Clodsire have been able to account well for Archaludon, which continues to run rampant. Counterplay to Archaludon, which very much includes Clodsire, also can focus around other Electric immunities like Ruination or Whirlwind SDef Ting Lu, Iron Treads, faster Earth Power Landorus-T, or Sandy Shocks, who can all 1v1 Archaludon, but do not switch in safely, making them circumstantial checks if no Tera is involved in the exchange. You can see Blissey handle non-Body Press variants, SDef Skeledirge with the right Tera type stall out Archaludon if it times the sequence properly, or combinations of faster Pokemon applying offensive pressure minimizing Archaludon to just a few entries.

Overall, Archaludon is one of the scariest Pokemon to encounter in SV OU! It is able to withstand the vast majority of attacks while dealing strong, oftentimes boosted attacks that cover almost every possible Pokemon you can bring. It is incredibly reliant on Rain support, which is a limiting factor for any potential suspect, but Rain is at its peak right now. Special bulk is limited and the speed tier is middling, but Assault Vest and Stamina can help compensate for these shortcomings, allowing Archaludon to fire off numerous attacks more often than not. It will be interesting to see how the playerbase votes on Archaludon as it becomes the tenth suspect of the ninth generation!

• Reading this is mandatory for participating in the suspect test!!! The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 80 with at least 50 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 80 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 84. Also, needing more than 50 games to reach 80 GXE will suffice.

minimum games needed

GXE	minimum games
80	50
80.2	49
80.4	48
80.6	47
80.8	46
81	45
81.2	44
81.4	43
81.6	42
81.8	41
82	40
82.2	39
82.4	38
82.6	37
82.8	36
83	35
83.2	34
83.4	33
83.6	32
83.8	31
84	30

• You must signup with a newly registered account on Pokemon Showdown! that begins with the appropriate prefix for the suspect test. For this suspect test, the prefix will be OUKU. For example, I might signup with the ladder account OUKU Finch.
• Laddering with an account that impersonates, mocks, or insults another Smogon user or breaks Pokemon Showdown! rules may be disqualified from voting and infracted. Moderator discretion will be applied here. If there is any doubt or hesitance when making the alt, just pick another name. There are infinite possibilities and we have had trouble for this repeatedly. If you wish to participate in the suspect, you should be able to exhibit decent enough judgement here. We will not be lenient.
• We will be using the regular OU ladder for this suspect test. We will not be creating a new Suspect Ladder. At the beginning of every battle, there will be an announcement denoting the ongoing suspect with a link to this thread.
• The suspect being tested, Archaludon, will be allowed on the ladder.
• Any form of voting manipulation will result in swift and severe punishment. You are more than welcome to state your argument to as many people as you so please, but do not use any kind of underhanded tactics to get a result you desire. Bribery, blackmail, or any other type of tactic used to sway votes will be handled and sanctioned.
• Do not attempt to cheat the ladder. We will know if you did not actually achieve voting requisites, so don't do it. Harsh sanctions will be applied.
• Unlike previous tests, we will be posting the voting identification thread immediately after this thread. Your voting requisites will be confirmed by a Council member or OU moderator, to which we will edit in confirmation. Please avoid getting more games before getting confirmed.
• The suspect test will be lasting until Friday, February 16th at 11:59 pm (GMT-5), and then we will put up the voting thread in the Blind Voting subforum.
  • THIS IS A SLIGHTLY SHORTER TEST THAN NORMAL AS WE ATTEMPT TO BALANCE THE METAGAME AFTER THE RELEASE OF DLC2. PLEASE NOTE THIS WHEN PLANNING TO GET VOTING REQUIREMENTS!!!

This thread will be open to allow all users to share their thoughts on this suspect test and discuss with one another their thoughts. However, this thread will be strictly moderated, moreso than the average OU forum thread. Our moderators will apply discretion as to what is appropriate. You are not allowed to post about other potential suspects or bans. Please read and keep in mind the following before posting:

• No unhelpful one liners nor uninformed posts;
• No discussion on other potential suspects -- if you wish to discuss another Pokemon, we encourage you to do so in the metagame discussion thread, but this thread is strictly to discuss if Archaludon is banworthy or not;
• No discussion on the suspect process -- this includes testing Archaludon vs other potential suspects;
• You are required to make respectful posts;
• You are required to read this thread before posting.
• Failure to follow these simple guidelines will result in your post being deleted and infracted without any prior warning.
• Please also take a moment to read over some suggestions from the OU Council and the OU Moderation team for posting in this thread; adhering these will help out our time moderating the thread and present your arguments better and more educated.
  • Do not argue because it's your favorite Pokemon. This should be common sense, but please don't do this, because we will delete posts like this.
  • You do not need a boatload of experience to have an informed opinion, but please try to minimize the theorymon aspect and use your experiences watching and playing. Playing some on the ladder before posting is plenty if you're concerned about this.
  • Do not flame, belittle, or be disrespectful to users in this thread. While not everyone will read this post in its entirety nor will everyone have an informed opinion, please be sure not to be disrespectful. If there's an issue, bring it up to a moderator.
  • Do not use the argument of broken checking broken. Should your argument rest on your opinion that banning the Pokemon or mechanic being tested in this suspect test will make a Pokemon or mechanic broken, overpowered, and/or uncompetitive; don't. If something needs to be banned because of the result this suspect, then so be it.
  • This thread is not to voice complaints about the suspect process or decisions of the council. While we are more than open to hearing complaints that may arise, this isn't the place for it. I suggest you message the OU Council, PM our Tier Leaders, Finchinator and Ruft, or make a post in Senior Staff requests, should you have a badge.

Should you have any questions about the suspect test, feel free to message the OU Council. And if you have any questions about the moderation of this thread, feel free to message the OU Forum Leaders. I am tagging Kris and Marty to let them know about this, too.

Keep in mind that our suspect tests are decided by the community; anyone who rightfully achieves voting requisites is allowed to vote. The outcome is up to you.

 

[Finchinator]

This is locked for 24 hours for people to collect their thoughts. Enjoy!

 

[Finchinator]

I am unlocking this thread a bit early due to being away IRL at the 24h mark.

 

[Finchinator]

Archaludon should be banned from SV OU.

It has become the posterchild for power creep, sporting an unreasonable combination of breaking prowess and durability. Offensively, Archaludon is one of the most challenging Pokemon to contain. Defensively, Archaludon is almost never OHKO'd, frequently positioning itself to snowball into multiple KOs. While there would normally be a major resistence towards banning anything reliant on support like Rain, we have reached a level of power with Archaludon and consistency with the archetype that historical norms are tossed aside for the sake of finding a competitively stimulating metagame.

Archaludon has two main downsides: lackluster special bulk and speed. It is able to circumvent these negatives by running Assault Vest, which lends itself well to Archaludon's profile as is, and being near impossible to OHKO by most faster attackers. On the contrary, Archaludon's strengths are on display virtually every game. Electro Shot does unreasonable damage for a non-STAB attack, but it also boosts both STABs for future use, even if used into an Electric immune. Stamina allows for Archaludon to take advantage of innumerable sequences featuring common attackers, stretching its usefulness far beyond what anyone can sumarize in a single suspect thread post, especially when you pair it with Body Press for Steel types and Blissey.

You are not going to get too far with arguments about Archaludon having sufficient counterplay either as the only true counter to Clodsire (assuming no Earthquake -- Blissey handles it if you run Tera Ghost or if it drops Body Press for Earthquake). Specific Ground types like Earth Power Landorus-T, Earth Power Iron Treads, Ruination Ting Lu, or faster Gliscor that still has SDef invested can 1v1 Archaludon, Sand or Sun teams can disrupt Archaludon's sequencing, and the presence of hazards can prove as a limiting factor to Archaludon, especially if common teammate Iron Treads is not able to keep up. That is about it though. And to say that is enough would be laughable -- it is not enough and instead leaves teambuilding in shambles, pushing the metagme to extreme measures with offense that must keep up pressure all game or bulky teams with Clodsire and Blissey as we have recently seen.

Also, people need to stop claiming G-King is a check or cores with it are a solve to weather teams like Rain. GKing borders on being a liability into Archaludon, enabling it to boost up while doing big damage at +1 and nearly killing it after at +2 if GKing tried to switch-in. Yes, it changes the weather as it pivots out, but not enough things OHKO Archaludon for this to really be a consistent sequence, especially given the net damage you take despite Regenerator and the fact that you do nothing to Archaludon in return.

The current metagame is already oversaturated with threats to the point that teambuilding is a chore, consistency is hard to come by, and many players find the tier volatile. Removing one of the biggest reasons for this would be a huge win for the metagame, so I hope we ban Archaludon.

 

[1LDK]

Heres a better theme for the suspect because contrary to what Srn might tell you, it does not cost you anything to have something that can be listened to instead of a literall baby song designed to appeal to the so called "OU Forum and OU showdown room" mains (even tho I agree with him that they are so fucking stupid they should be hit with the belt)

But we are not here for that, let's talk about arc

I'm fucking tired of this thing

Rain be like: + featured shitmon

shitmons in this position have been (but not limited to)

Kingambit
Greninja
Iron valiant
Iron crown
Tornadus therian
walking wake
zapdos
ting lu
another rain sweeper
rillaboom
jirachi

and others

arc is broken because

1) fucking stamina + usable bulk means is not dying unless you specifically sack 1 mon for like 80% of damage and then other to reclaim momentum but oh wait bro is using rain which means he either has bolt (momentum stopper) barra (you have no momentum vs this unless you are +10 deoxys speed) and the featured shitmon

2) outside clodsire no groundtype wants to take of arch because
a) drill feeds stamina boosts and dies with bp
b) tusk is fucking weak in spedef so it can only come up after you sack something
c) gliscor vs rain lmaooooo
d) treads is okay rn, but that's your raging bolt check and its damage is mid
e) lando (and treads) are being forced to run EARTH POWER, ANOTHER ERA OF SHITTY UNDERWHELMING MIX SETS JUST TO DEAL WITH THIS THING AND IT DOESN'T EVEN WORK BECAUSE LANDO IS ASS RIGHT NOW

3) it's piss easy to farm boosts because no ground type really wants to switch in and glowking ain taking a +1 electro shot, so now your +1 defense +1000 spa so you can just put filler attacks aside electro shot like eq to literally deal with clodsire and heatran, flash cannon, draco, whatever it doesn't matter your clicking the move

4) Based on SPL trends, we have seen that THEY ARE RESORTING TO STALL, ARCH PROMOTES STALL BECAUSE IT'S THE BEST WAY TO DEAL WITH IT, and stall should never be used because it's a bad play style for morally wrong people, but it's being used, so that means more reasons to ban arch

ban arc

 

[Heatranator]

Although I do believe that a damp rock ban is more relevant, I am happy that something is being done about rain.

Archaludon does have counterplay, as it is extremely susceptable on the special side and can not afford to switch out lest it get into range of attacks it could usually shrug off. It can also struggle against various ground types such as tusk as while they can ko it, tusk can usually take 90% of it's hp, die, then let something come in to revenge kill it. These mons that counter arch are not the best into rain, so sacking them isn't the worst thing in the world. I have found that people tend to rely on "safe moves" such as u-turn or knock off too much, and this is how arch can start to get going. The special side is also quite weak for arch, and threatening that can work very well as while assault vest can alleviate this a lot, it means that you do not have the recovery of lefties, which is big for it's longevity. The speed issue is also something worth noting, because arch is outsped by a lot of mons that can deal impressive damage to it. For example, it does not help much against kyurem which is one of rain's iffier matchups as it is destroyed by earth power.

I can not deny that arch has its problems, if it gets going, it is very hard to stop. It can also patch up a lot of rain's biggest weaknesses such as grass types and strong physical attackers that can take hits and ko the rain sweepers back. It also has amazing synergy with barra, as barra can invite in grass types that usually can't threaten arch too well, which barra can take advanatage of by flip turning on them to get in arch safely.

I know that this isn't the most in depth post, but at the end of the day, I don't mind that action is being taken. If I had to vote, which I cannot do because I am not good enough to get requirements, then I would vote Ban. However, I think if rain persists in being a problem after the ban, then we should look at rain as a playstyle.

 

[PlacatedPlatypus]

It's a crime that we used "London Bridge" instead of "Bridge Over Troubled Water" for this announcement.

Anyways this thing is all over SPL and also ladder, I actually thought it would be too slow to be impactful in the meta but it's so tanky that it always can 1v1 whatever you send out against it, and usually accumulates several boosts, meaning you have to follow it up with a fast revenge killer which then leaves you down a lot of momentum.

It definitely has clear weaknesses. It's not fast, it usually is AV since its special bulk is subpar, so it normally is really susceptible to being worn down. It doesn't ever clean-sweep you; slow teams have Clod which no-sells it. It really feels like more of a stumbling block and an annoyance than an insane broken threat. Treads is pretty consistent against it as well, which makes it not feel as bad to deal with. Overall I'm not convinced this thing is breaking the tier apart, but something definitely should be done about rain as that shit is everywhere.

 

[Nanulak]

Archaludon doesn’t need to be banned. It’s fine. I haven’t seen all that good use of it

While, sure, Arch has Stamina Body Presses and Rain/Power Herb Electro Shots, that doesn’t mean it’s OP. Just because you cant OHKO it doesn’t mean it isn’t unbeatable/countered. Clodsire IS a good counter for it, as it eats up its Electro Shots, Body Presses, and Flash Cannons no problem. Draco Meteor is harder to counter, but it’s still fine, as it’ll only be able to really use Body Press after one. Pokémon that outspeed are also good counters. If it’s just been sent out, it can’t really touch you, so if you just outspeed it you’ll deal a ton of damage, letting you outspeed it again and just KO it. Plus, even with AV it doesn’t take Special hits well
Honestly, I might use Duraludon over it. Duraludon, while not able to pull the same Electro Shot shenanigans, it is however able to pull Heavy Slam with Heavy Metal, and Body Press is still good thanks to access to Eviolite. They’re both just as good
Overall, Arch doesn’t need to be banned

 

[DaRotomMachine]

Here's my two cents about this suspect.

To be completely honest I was not expecting an Arch suspect at all.

Arch is literally contained to rain. It isn't very good if rain isn't up, which can be done by using other weather (like hail and sun), as mentioned twice I think by Finchinator.
Arch can also get completely annihlated by the very pokemon that was suspected last time. Choice Specs Earth Power Kyurem hits HARD, even though Assault Vest because of its 65 SpD stat. And again rain does have a tough match-up with Kyurem anyways.....

If I get reqs, which I am going to spend my time doing, currently I will vote for No Ban right now (if I get reqs of course), tho it might change after i start playing a little bit.

 

[EnesBatur]

Honestly, I might use Duraludon over it. Duraludon, while not able to pull the same Electro Shot shenanigans, it is however able to pull Heavy Slam with Heavy Metal, and Body Press is still good thanks to access to Eviolite. They’re both just as good
Overall, Arch doesn’t need to be banned

I haven't played SV OU in a while and don't have any consensus on Archaludon, neither do I know the full extent of Archaludon's abilities (correct me on this one then), but I think Duraludon being better than or as good as Archaludon is straight up nonsense. Sure, Eviolite is a straight upgrade over Assault Vest, but Duraludon doesn't have Stamina or Leftovers, which Archaludon uses to 1v1 with Body Press while getting back to full HP. This is especially notable with Tera, where it can Tera into Fairy or Flying, take probably 24% from CC, then get back HP on walls and other helpless opponents. In general, Stamina works well with Tera because you get a free +1 Defense for predicting while also getting to click whatever you want right after. I think you also understate the impact of Electro Shot. While primarily a rain tool and not stab, Electro Shot is a spammable Meteor Beam that strongly damages SpDef tanks like Glowking, while boosting its own SpA at the same time, making it harder to stop the longer it goes on. Okay, so Clodsire, but all the other grounds get chipped or even destroyed by Draco Meteor or Body Press. Steels like Gholdengo or Corviknight, who would otherwise be a big pain to deal with, will get beaten by Electro Shot. Your Thunderbolt Duraludon isn't beating Gholdengo. Just in general, its increase in bulk lets it be comparable to Duraludon with Eviolite (it has lower raw bulk but it can hold Leftovers to heal or AV to exceed Duraludon's SpDef) while Stamina and Electro Shot are huge additions that nothing Duraludon does can replicate to nearly the same degree.

also nice heavy slam
252+ Atk Duraludon Heavy Slam (40 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 87-103 (18.7 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO

Edit: wait Archaludon gets EQ while Duraludon doesn't
so it beats Clodsire better as well

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Here's my two cents about this suspect.

To be completely honest I was not expecting an Arch suspect at all.

Arch is literally contained to rain. It isn't very good if rain isn't up, which can be done by using other weather (like hail and sun), as mentioned twice I think by Finchinator.
Arch can also get completely annihlated by the very pokemon that was suspected last time. Choice Specs Earth Power Kyurem hits HARD, even though Assault Vest because of its 65 SpD stat. And again rain does have a tough match-up with Kyurem anyways.....

If I get reqs, which I am going to spend my time doing, currently I will vote for No Ban right now (if I get reqs of course), tho it might change after i start playing a little bit.

how are you deciding what you will vote in advance if you haven't even played much yet? Arch isn't dependent on rain like Wake is on sun, the SpA boost it gets from electro shot stays even if rain goes out later, and its defense boost with stamina keep stacking up. Its lackluster SpD is also patched by Assault Vest.

You need to play and win a lot more to get a better understanding of Arch's influence

 

[Moisture99]

Archaludon doesn’t need to be banned. It’s fine. I haven’t seen all that good use of it

While, sure, Arch has Stamina Body Presses and Rain/Power Herb Electro Shots, that doesn’t mean it’s OP. Just because you cant OHKO it doesn’t mean it isn’t unbeatable/countered. Clodsire IS a good counter for it, as it eats up its Electro Shots, Body Presses, and Flash Cannons no problem. Draco Meteor is harder to counter, but it’s still fine, as it’ll only be able to really use Body Press after one. Pokémon that outspeed are also good counters. If it’s just been sent out, it can’t really touch you, so if you just outspeed it you’ll deal a ton of damage, letting you outspeed it again and just KO it. Plus, even with AV it doesn’t take Special hits well
Honestly, I might use Duraludon over it. Duraludon, while not able to pull the same Electro Shot shenanigans, it is however able to pull Heavy Slam with Heavy Metal, and Body Press is still good thanks to access to Eviolite. They’re both just as good
Overall, Arch doesn’t need to be banned

so many things wrong with this post

1. you've listed literally one 'counter' to archaludon in clodsire (which loses to eq and can't fit on anything faster than balance). A counter needs to be able to switch in and beat arch 1v1, and theres not a single faster pokemon that can do that reliably
2. 'if it's just been sent out, it can't really touch you' cap - also worst case, arch could just switch out or tera vs bad matchups. The issue is that you're in big trouble if arch is in vs a good matchup (which is the majority of the tier tbh)
3. 'if you just outspeed it you’ll deal a ton of damage, letting you outspeed it again and just KO it.' Yep pretend that someone will let you do this.
4. the duraludon take is really unserious
5. either you don't play the metagame or you are drawing your experience from low ladder except rain is probably running rampant there too so idk what's going on

i personally think archaludon should remain legal cuz its cool and funny and idc about metagame health but some of these anti-ban takes r really something

 

[Komodo_Drogo]

Here's my two cents about this suspect.

To be completely honest I was not expecting an Arch suspect at all.

Arch is literally contained to rain. It isn't very good if rain isn't up, which can be done by using other weather (like hail and sun), as mentioned twice I think by Finchinator.
Arch can also get completely annihlated by the very pokemon that was suspected last time. Choice Specs Earth Power Kyurem hits HARD, even though Assault Vest because of its 65 SpD stat. And again rain does have a tough match-up with Kyurem anyways.....

If I get reqs, which I am going to spend my time doing, currently I will vote for No Ban right now (if I get reqs of course), tho it might change after i start playing a little bit.

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Archaludon: 280-330 (75.2 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tera Fairy Archaludon: 140-165 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tera Fairy Archaludon: 210-247 (56.4 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Archaludon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 492-582 (125.8 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Archaludon Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 306-360 (78.2 - 92%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

You're underestimating it's bulk. And due to Archaludons natural typing, its a solid user of Tera. Fairy is easily the most common due to the number of dragons in the tier but I've seen steel and personally had this situatuion play out.

 

[TMTito]

Archaludon should be banned.

With 125 SpA, it has enough raw power to be an offensive threat. With 90/130/65, it has enough bulk to be part of a defensive structure. With 85 speed (max 295 Spe), it's above a few relevant points (231, 250, 270, 294), having an array of options for investment to suit the team's needs.

It's subpar special bulk is somewhat mitigated by the assault vest sets made possible by it's typing and movepool, often allowing it to stomach hits from a number of attackers:

244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Archaludon: 292-345 (78.4 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Archaludon: 294-346 (79 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Enamorus Earth Power vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Archaludon: 286-338 (76.8 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

24 SpA Landorus-Therian Earth Power vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Archaludon: 198-234 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Archaludon: 253-298 (68 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But that's not all. On top of all these qualities, there's the ability that defines how Archaludon is a threat right at team preview: Stamina. The presence of an user is capable of interfering with gameplay without even having them on the field, while also making pokemon reliant on multiple hit physical attacks somewhat obsolete. This ability is very punishing and known to be somewhat centralizing whenever it comes up, and while Mudsdale is neverused, it still is a key aspect of it. In particular, Archaludon's typing and defenses makes for a formidable tank if being faced by the unprepared:

252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 314-372 (84.4 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Kingambit Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 158-186 (42.4 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 236-282 (63.4 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Iron Boulder Close Combat vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 198-234 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 238-282 (63.9 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Add a boost to any of the results above and things could change drastically, giving Archaludon interesting, but perhaps too powerful behavior.

As for it's movepool, Archaludon has above average options for this tier. With Dragon/Steel stabs to hit dragons and fairies (as well as ice and rock types), it's capable of utilizing electric attacks (with a honorable mention to the very problematic Electro Shot) as well as at least two useful physical moves in Earthquake and Body Press.

Not only it hits hard, it hits everyone hard. There's no simple way to check it defensively (as one must scout for it's movepool), and it's hardly easy to revenge kill while being in a decent speed tier.

Finally, Archaludon still has more to offer: While not the most popular choice, it's utility set can provide entry hazards with stealth rock, cripple checks with thunder wave, phase with dragon tail and set up itself with focus energy or power herb. While statistically non-existant to my knowledge, it's worth mentioning that Archaludon learns Meteor Beam.

Therefore, while I personally believe Archaludon is not the most problematic pokemon in this still infant tier, it's in the list of problematic Pokemons in the tier, and must go.

While not exactly an argument for a ban vote, it's also worth mentioning that the current metagame is saturated with threats and every player would benefit from one less constraint in the teambuilder.

 

[Nanulak]

so many things wrong with this post

1. you've listed literally one 'counter' to archaludon in clodsire (which loses to eq and can't fit on anything faster than balance). A counter needs to be able to switch in and beat arch 1v1, and theres not a single faster pokemon that can do that reliably
2. 'if it's just been sent out, it can't really touch you' cap - also worst case, arch could just switch out or tera vs bad matchups. The issue is that you're in big trouble if arch is in vs a good matchup (which is the majority of the tier tbh)
3. 'if you just outspeed it you’ll deal a ton of damage, letting you outspeed it again and just KO it.' Yep pretend that someone will let you do this.
4. the duraludon take is really unserious
5. either you don't play the metagame or you are drawing your experience from low ladder except rain is probably running rampant there too so idk what's going on

i personally think archaludon should remain legal cuz its cool and funny and idc about metagame health but some of these anti-ban takes r really something

Ok, how about we battle to test that? 1 v. 1, Clodsire v. Archaludon. My Showdown username is PokefanKIV

 

[Finchinator]

Ok, how about we battle to test that? 1 v. 1, Clodsire v. Archaludon. My Bulbagarden username is PokefanKIV

This is based off of SV OU on Pokemon Showdown, not anything on Bulbagarden or other outlets. I also strongly advise you to lurk more as your post is almost entirely misinformation.

 

[PlacatedPlatypus]

You're underestimating it's bulk. And due to Archaludons natural typing, its a solid user of Tera. Fairy is easily the most common due to the number of dragons in the tier but I've seen steel and personally had this situatuion play out.

Let's be honest here though, "Tera lets this mon beat its would-be checks" isn't really a mark against a mon but rather something to be expected. You can say the same of most of the mons in the tier, offensive or defensive. It's maybe a bigger problem on certain ones like Arch, Gambit, Ghold, Moon, Bolt, Volc, Dirge, Serp, CM Hat and Lati, but most mons are able to wiggle out of their checks/counters somewhat with it.

 

[Duckular]

i feel like Arhculadon is actually pretty tame in this meta mainly because power creep has gotten so bad to the point that stuff like this is easy to manage with. With the amount of fast hard hitting attackers, or hell, even just above average speed attackers since this thing is slow by gen nine standards, it can usually be safely one or two hit KOd by basically just any super effective move even with stamina. That, and Archaludon is mainly only confined to one play style, making it extremely predictable. Now I’m just wondering why are we suspecting this instead of much more game altering unfun stuff like Kingambit which is unpredictable, fits on literally any play style or team, and turns the game into a glorified rock paper scissors match. Like hell, I use Gambit all the time and even I feel bad for my opponent after OHKOing there resisted Pokémon with Sucker Punch after ONE SWORDS DANCE.

In conclusion: Archaludon is fine, and I personally think there’s just bigger fish to fry in the tier right now.

 

[Nanulak]

This is based off of SV OU on Pokemon Showdown, not anything on Bulbagarden or other outlets. I also strongly advise you to lurk more as your post is almost entirely misinformation.

Thank you for pointing that out for me; I’m just used to Bulbagarden

 

[Komodo_Drogo]

Let's be honest here though, "Tera lets this mon beat its would-be checks" isn't really a mark against a mon but rather something to be expected. You can say the same of most of the mons in the tier, offensive or defensive. It's maybe a bigger problem on certain ones like Arch, Gambit, Ghold, Moon, Bolt, Volc, Dirge, Serp, CM Hat and Lati, but most mons are able to wiggle out of their checks/counters somewhat with it.

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that it's a viable user of tera, and it's usage of Tera is comparatively underdeveloped. It was expected, which is why I included calcs for tera fairy, what was not expected was the relatively new typing which added another layer of complexity.

 

[Anchor9]

My thoughts on since I’ve had a lot of experience playing with and against this, through for OU and Triple Dino Death Barrage ( .)

is manageable as long as you play offensive and aggressive. usually gets one window to snowball, and that window only opens with a more passive Mon, so HO that lead with something like instead of shouldn’t have too much trouble. For example , I lead into Rain like 99% of the time. If they lead with Pelipper, Arch is not going to be able to swap in since

244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Archaludon: 292-345 (78.4 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The moment you step off the pedal starts going. There is literally no good defensive counterplay outside of Unaware , Tera Ghost and possibly Unaware . Everything else (, , etc) gets severally chunked trying to stop it or just dies outright if they’re passive. While there is DEFINITELY ways to beat it, like pressuring it from swapping in via hazards / offensive threats that can 2-3HKO, Arch really suppresses stall, which I’ve also have used a bit. Like, stall HAS to run + / Tera Ghost or die. The thing that really breaks Arch for me is , which thrives on the fact has to be Unaware and is pressured not to swap in for fear of giving Arch an easy opportunity to boost. can also EASILY Flip Turn Archaludon in for free because it forces so many swaps.

So is as manageable as long as you play aggressively. The Strat is to NEVER allow it to swap in for free. Which is why Arch probably needs to go. It really hurts stuff like Stall and Balance. On top of having to have a defensive core to deal with “impossible to swap into ” and “You Predict Tera Wrong you Die , , , and ”, there’s also, “Oh, you’re team also needs enough offensive pressure to keep from destroying you while having a check to , , and You Predict Tera Wrong you Die .” Oh, and I didn’t mention too can play the Tera game if it gets a free switch-in via a teammate death. So much for Offensive Pressure. Now Wake has to guess Tera Fairy and instead use Hydro Steam, or still Draco Meteor for no Tera. Guess right and you have a severely crippled Arch for the rest of the game. Guess wrong and you got an Arch at either 70% and a Stamina Boost or full that can still snowball. Either way Arch is still gonna Draco Meteor your life out.

should be banned now for stability, but definitely should be retested as long as gets banned.

Edit: Wanted to mention that besides not allowing it to snowball, there is another reason NEVER to give Archaludon a free turn to swap in. A good chunk of Mons that can 2HKO (besides stuff like Earth Power Iron Treads lead) can be OHKOed in return. Mons like , , , , Calm Mind . A free turn means Archaludon will nearly always trade. So yeah, definitely don’t let Arch in for free.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

One interesting thing about Archaludon is how it hard it punishes misplays of the opponent. There is very little margin of error; it's hard to come back if Arch has been given even one free turn to use Electro Shot properly in the rain. If Arch's special attack is +2, it's very often the end of the match right there.

Also, I would suggest people stop naming Clodsire as an Arch check. The only thing it does, is argue for why Arch is broken. Clod isn't a super splashable mon, and it being the only reliable check/counter for a standard AV Arch set suggests Arch is, in fact, broken.

I am not yet fully sure if it deserves to be banned, as like Anchor9 said above, Arch can indeed be handled before it gets chance to snowball. But it's not always easy since Skewda often brings in Arch with Flip Turn, which makes to hard to kill it reliably before it gets Electro Shot. If Skewda isn't around, it can indeed by pressured offensively, especially on special defense side. Arch is not that great outside rain, but it's not reliant on rain setter after first turn or two, especially if it gets a free turn before rain disappears. I still need some time to contemplate if it's banworthy, but as it is on rain, i would lean toward yes.

 

[Pinecoishot]

Going to bring a more interesting take to the table. My personal view would be to ban Drizzle rather than Archaludon. While Archaludon might play the major part in breaking rain, Raging Bolt and to a lesser extent Barraskewda are also not an ignorable presence to rain’s dominance. Raging Bolt on rain gives similar resists to arch and can help break bulkier grounds like ting lu/ Clodsire/ spedef landorus with weather ball for arch while having no swaps for a proto boosted dragon stab and thunder. Barraskewda also allows both of those to come in freely with flip turn and is insanely threatening by itself. Raging Bolt also frees Archaludon having to take hits so that it can be saved for late game gambits/ opposing bolts/ opposing kyurem and more. It’s also important to note that drizzle is usually a ban in lower tiers or bdsp OU when multiple mons break rain instead of a singular which I would argue the presence of any strong flip turn swimmer/ bolt/ and arch contribute too instead of solely Arch.

 

[Nanulak]

Hey, tomorrow I’ll do an experiment of using Archaludon against every OU Pokémon on 1v1. I’ll be battling myself, so keep in mind it’s a bit unfair, and the move sets and stuff will come from Usage Rates. Now, of course, Archaludon has, like, a 100% chance to body some Pokémon such as Deoxys-Speed or Glimmora due to their typical roles that don’t fit well in 1v1. Tomorrow I’ll carry out this experiment. If anyone wants to help, pm me, and I’ll get back to you tomorrow (about 15 hours from now, maybe a few hours earlier, maybe a few hours later)

 

[Finchinator]

Hey, tomorrow I’ll do an experiment of using Archaludon against every OU Pokémon on 1v1. I’ll be battling myself, so keep in mind it’s a bit unfair, and the move sets and stuff will come from Usage Rates. Now, of course, Archaludon has, like, a 100% chance to body some Pokémon such as Deoxys-Speed or Glimmora due to their typical roles that don’t fit well in 1v1. Tomorrow I’ll carry out this experiment. If anyone wants to help, pm me, and I’ll get back to you tomorrow (about 15 hours from now, maybe a few hours earlier, maybe a few hours later)

A series of 1v1s are mostly irrelevant to gameflow interactions. I do not think you should waste your time. I would advise playing the tier with the resources available and getting a grasp on the metagme rather than doing this, which does not simulate an actual game at all.