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I'd like to see the others. I've already said I dont consider the wonder trio broken, for the same reason. And there are non-broken sab teams.

Just because there are non-broken sab teams doesn't mean that it doesn't enable teams that aim to win at team preview more than any other Pokemon in the game right now. In my opinion.

Yeah and I think the only times teams will win at team preview are with poorly made teams. And I'm not the only one who thinks that, just check this post out: http://spo.ink/agD

Specifically the middle paragraph about matchup dependance

i don't necessarily disagree with tdk at all, i feel mostly the same way except when sab teams enter the equation because the hazard wars tend to get unbalanced and sableye just enables so many combinations of crazy shit to wall whatever in addition to supporting goth and other trappers brilliantly by keeping SR off. i don't think it only hoses poorly made teams because the most consistent team of the generation thats been run for 2 years got completely hosed by it and it doesn't really have a problem with any team besides the sheddy duggy talon shit. as time goes on and sab is allowed to unbalance the battle to keep hazards up in games more team types like that are just going to sprout up to attempt to completely wall whatever teams are popular right then without much interactivity. it's for this reason why some people like BKC think that SR needs to go; i think banning sab is the more correct measure. it's the only magic bouncer that's exceedingly hard to kill and can make the SR (most important move in the game) war uneven

The fact that the most used team of the generation was the one to lose to it is rather telling in my personal opinion. Those teams are designed to thrive on metagame trends, and being the most used team out there, I'd be rather disappointed if it failed to handle it when it is designed to be the most anti-meta team there is. Also, being the most consistant team doesn't mean it will always win anyway. As an example of a similar thing, Aero-Forry was really popular in ubers for a while because of how hard it dicked on the most popular and used team, but it has since fallen out of favour with the rise of other metagame trends that fuck it up completely.

Regardless, I feel we will have to agree to disagree here, the hazard game being more complicated is something I consider good for the meta, as it promotes higher skill in both teambuilding and actual gameplay. Mega Sableye has never struck me as being particularly skewing towards a matchup based metagame, and still doesn't.

i'm not familiar at all with ubers, but i think it's a pretty unhealthy dynamic for the game to be basically unwinnable. i'm all for metagame calls as long as there's room to outplay them with dominant teams but when they're completely walled by the newest core backed by sab i don't really think it's a metagame i'm even slightly interested in playing and it kinda turned me off of the game. ubers guys are pretty lax about bans, ya, so we have diff. perspectives, but i'm definitely one to vote not ban over ban every single time and I wouldn't be advocating it if I didn't deem it a huge problem

See the thing is, there will always be a set of 6 mons which can beat your set of 6 mons. If you have ttar keldeo mega venu tran thundurus and clefable, you will be in a tight spot vs life orb dugtrio + mega venusaur + landorus-t + hp fight latios. The point of a team is to be as versatile as it can be and cover as much as it physically can, while giving it room to play around as many options as it can possibly get. But with 750 mons or whatever it is, that is physically impossible. Mega Sableye is just part of the core that can deal with one popular team without much effort, but it is by no means unwinnable.

the problem is that the games were realistically unwinnable unless the player with the favored team misplayed extremely hard which is the point i'm trying to make. it didn't strike my as healthy. offensive teams should, usually, be able to play around terrible matchups, but i doubted it was the case in a lot of the games i played/saw with the team

Why? As the wonder trio rmt says, seeing stallbreaker togekiss = click x. What gives poorly built offense the right to play around matchup that is very good for the opposing team due to lazy teambuilding that isn't afforded to that very same opposing team playing something it cant handle for the same reason.

the teams weren't necessarily poorly built. the combination of sableye and extremely niche cores that should be able to be pressured with hazards (which is what a lot of the hosed teams did to win) couldn't because of the hazard dynamic that sab creates in combination with the mons. and stallbreaker togekiss rarely fits onto teams, it's kind of mediocre in a lot of m/us

Because shedinja is totally not deadweight in matchups and hard to fit onto teams.