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Hulavuta
Hulavuta
also since you liked Ender's Game, can I assume you didn't read the book?

this is not meant to be condescending, I just find that most people who like the movie have not read the book
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
I do think Star Trek 2009 is actually great though, this coming from a "Star Trek fan"
Martin
Martin
Ye i've not read the book; I've heard the book's insanely good tho
Martin
Martin
also ep 8 wouldn't be non-sensical if more than the last quarter of the movie had any impact what-so-ever on its outcome. fwiw i like both of the films but rogue one plays a pivotal role in setting up episode 4 (which I can't really see basically any of episode 8 doing for episode 9) while also having hands-down the single best battle sequence in star wars history because of the way its planned out and directed.
Martin
Martin
^i'd have worded that better but there's a char limit on responses on XF2 for some reason; fuck knows why
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
There was a character limit on the old one too but it was like 1500 lol

I find that people who tend to care about characters and theme like The Force Awakens / The Last Jedi more and people who care more about worldbuilding and "plot" (as vague as that is) like Rogue One more. I have liked Rogue One more the more I have watched it (and Gareth Edwards is like my favorite director, I will go full fanboy for him) due
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
to the scope of it (wow that character limit really is fucking horrid). I am a real sucker for ensemble casts and not having a "main" character (though Jyn is somewhat of one).

I'm not here to say what to like, my only point is that TLJ was risky and tried to be ambitious in a way that Rogue One was safe. Whether it succeeded or failed it was not a "dumb fun" movie. It tried to be thought-provoking and it either
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
succeeded or failed. But it tried to be.


As for Ender's Game, yeah. I find that people who liked the movie never really read the book. And I hate to be the guy who was like "the book was better" because unlike that sentiment, they actually didn't change the plot very much. But they sucked all the meaning out of it. The movie was just kinda going through the motions like it was going through a checklist of plot
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
events. Never really taking the time to develop them or "sit in a moment". When Ender says that he loves his enemy, it's completely unearned and hollow.

I think the big issue is that it had to be a sci-fi action movie for the film market so they couldn't really explore any ideas. It had to be spectacle.

I find a lot of people watch the movie without reading the book and think "wow this movie brings up some interest
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
ing ideas. Pretty insightful." but from the perspective of someone who has read the book, it is more like the movie only hits those ideas insofar as they are part of the plot and unavoidable, and never takes the time to actually develop them or try to make them meaningful.

In other words, the book struck me as about a theme, and the characters existed to explore it. Not quite "allegory" but maybe "commentary" or
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
"fairy tale". But the movie was a sci-fi action movie that only hinted on the themes insofar as the dialogue was lifted from the book so it said some of the same things.
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
I don't wanna hate too much on something you like but the film was kind of in an impossible situation. I don't think you could have made it a more cerebral movie and then convinced adults to go to a movie about "kids in a space school".
Martin
Martin
Fair.

TBH that kinda hits on one of the key issues with "faithful adaptations" in that they're really hard to do right, especially within the time constraints of a movie. Big moments stop being emotional peaks and become plot points and ideas also get turned into plot drivers rather than genuine ideas, and if that's the cost of faith I'd rather it be unfaithful (well, within reason; The Girl On The Train and (limit)
Martin
Martin
The Golden Compass are not ok).

Just this whole "film-industry-matching" adaptations of books thing is kinda dumb TBH. I saw Ender's Game when it was in cinemas and enjoyed it on a kinda primal level, but now that I'm seeing u say that it's making me think abt it again. I should prolly re-watch it and read the book to properly see what u mean.
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
there are a lot of adaptations that change books that I don't mind. I guess I can't have a clear view since i read the book first but it seems to me even without knowing, it'd be a little weird. Like Bonzo gets hurt and then forgotten. Ender says he loves his enemy even though he never really established that, etc.

unrelated to this but in the book there's actually a huge B-plot involving Valentine and Peter where
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
Peter takes over the whole world via the internet lol
Martin
Martin
that b plot sounds epic
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
yeah lol
Hulavuta
Hulavuta
did you like Star Trek before the 2009 movie?
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