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1) Should we still take competitiveness into consideration when discussing and voting on things like Tera, or is that the sole purview of the Council? 2) Would the Council still have taken action against sleep if the survey result was below 3? 3) Why was a suspect test an option on the...

I'm saying we shouldn't go there. If you want to have a serious discussion about whether Amoonguss is an example of sleep being uncompetitive, we can, but that's going to drag in the RNG baggage. If you're just looking to score cheap gotcha points using Amoonguss, then knock yourself out. I...

Edit: You twist my words to accuse me of arguing in bad faith, then deflect when you get called out on it.

Easy: "Amoonguss wasn't a problem until players started pairing it with an RNG item to remove agency and invalidate traditional counterplay. Red Card is the problem and should be banned, just like King's Rock." But given what an RNG item discussion would do to this thread (see: Quick Claw), I...

Nice analysis. Personally, I'm not too worried about it being an in-battle ban, partly due to the precedent of Tera and Dynamax (like you said). What matters most for me is making sure that the rule is well-defined. That is, you always know whether you're allowed to click a sleep move or not...

Your appreciation of Minior is infectious. I had to go for the pun.

Two Minior minor points, and then you all can get back to talking about Pecharunt Kyurem Lokix. One of the nice things about MeepBard's proposal is that it has an escape hatch: You can click a sleep move if you have no other legal option. So if your last Pokemon is an Amoonguss and you just got...

IIRC, that was due to a shift in popularity rather than policy. Tera Preview was the favorite early on but fell out of favor as the meta developed. I might be remembering wrong, though. Tera Blast is definitely the simplest option. But given the range of options that were considered, it...

Cart accuracy and complexity are two separate things. All it would take to make Sleep Clause cart-accurate is to implement the clause proposed by MeepBard and others: "As long as you have another option, you can't click a sleep move if an opponent's Pokemon is already asleep." This is a...

You're right (or at least you should be), but there is some confusion on this point. I've seen several different users claim that every user of the move/ability must be broken, citing Diglett/Trapinch as precedent. There was even some debate over how Basculin would affect the Last Respects ban...

That's an interesting argument. Do you think we should ban Revival Blessing now because it would be uncompetitive with better distribution? Or does distribution play a factor in how uncompetitive something is? Game Freak seems to go out of its way to keep Spore off fast Pokemon, for example...

"You can't click sleep moves if you have another option." is a cleaner formulation than "You lose if you sleep a second Pokemon." You don't get ugly interactions with Trick/Encore, you aren't tempted to risk a loss to put something back to sleep, and new players can't click a button that makes...

Listen to MeepBard (and Gohankuten and June Heat ). "You can't pick a sleep move when an opposing Pokemon is already asleep and you have another option." cleanly solves the cartridge accuracy issue. The only thing you lose is the ability to spam Spore when something is already asleep, but...

So Triple Axel Weavile will be outclassed and we won't have to drop Gliscor from Ubers, obviously.

The first being Meowscarada.