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Oh right, so you'd need a Charizard with all HP and SpD EVs so that you can have an 2HKO even though it is neutral damage, if you still think that counts as disproving the fact that Z moves do not do so much damage that having an actual fight is thrown out of the window then I don't know what...

Z-moves need to be banned, one goes into a fight expecting an actual fight but then your tanky pokemon gets almost one shot by a first turn z move and its not FIGHT anymore, its like they introduced a stronger, 100% accuracy, no recharge needed, nor type immune (depending on the z move) hyper...