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Ok I had to log in to reply to this, mainly your point #2. You (and as far as I can tell, quite a few people here) have clearly NEVER played a competitive game in their lives. From everything to fighting games (Street Fighter, Tekken) to card games (Magic: The Gathering, etc.) there is matchup...

Trapping is a double edged sword. On one hand it puts pressure on the opposing team and forces mind games and sometimes bad switches. On the other hand you are clearly telegraphing your intentions since there is a very small number of pokemon with trapping abilities (this is not the case for...

While the rest of the argument is good I feel the need to adress this pro ban argument which I have seen a LOT in this thread. This particular argument is true for ANY pokemon with a decent movepool. This is a terrible reason to want to ban greninja.

This is my problem with a lot of the recent bans and arguments. To me "it's unpredictable" is not a valid argument to ban a pokemon. Lately ive been noticing a trend in which people are leaning toward a metagame in which I know exactly all of your sets from seeing your team in the preview. That...

To the people saying: "The suspect ladder meta is more fun and full of variety", again you are showing that you have no clue how metagame works. Sure it will be fun and diverse NOW and for the first few weeks because people will experiment and try to find optimal teams. Once the meta "settles...

That is an extremely entitled position. Competitive games do not care if you "like" the meta. That has nothing to do with it. I know A LOT of people who despised the Gen 5 weather meta (myself included). Did it get banned? No. If you do not like the metagame you either: a) Suck it up b) Don't...

THANK YOU. This is what I've been saying this whole time but you phrased it beautifully. Again, anyone who has ever played a COMPETITIVE game knows this. If you ban something centralizing, another will take its place and the cycle will repeat until there is nothing left. The "line" you mention I...

This is an inherently flawed argument. There is no "Rest of the meta". Inside that rest of the meta there are again a list of 4 or 5 centralizing pokemon. Ban those and 4 more take their place. Anyone who has ever played any competitive game knows this. I understand the sheer power of M-Gengar...

The argument of "it is unpredictable because it can run more than one set" is honestly dumb. Why aren't we suspect testing Charizard then? Same deal, I see him come in: is it charizard X or Y? Do I keep my electric type in and throw a Thunderbolt praying for Y or switch out to my special wall...

Great list there Cyclic. Ive been using a hazard stall team with Klefki/Ttar/sableye/Clefable/Skarmory/ Tentacruel. I've had great success. My leads are usually Ttar or Klefki for either Stealth Rock or Spikes respectively. Im looking to replace Klefki though. Its a gimmicky set with Red Card...

Translation: i have not bothered to read a single page of discussion and come here with a simplistic answer that 1000 people could not have POSSIBLY thought of. Just... Please.. Shoo

I agree with the ban. I won't post calcs or reasons because if you take few minutes to read through the entire thread, there are plenty of excellent arguments. Most of the anti ban are just a bunch of "lol learn2play" or "it has counters look, i sacrifice this pokemon, bring in this other one...