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so if a Ferrothorn out speeds Jolteon with no moves altering speed or items thats not a glitch? its mathematically impossible. I do appreciate the info about how speed is chosen on first turn but I've been running into various speed problems over the past 3 months. You can ignore it but doesn't...

the same exact setup has worked with Kangaskan, and with Jolteon there was no tailwind just plain old timid Jolteon? so regardless if this time isn't there still is a speed bug.

So I've ran into this many times with different pokes throughout the past few months. I will use a poke that will clearly out speed another, yet they will go first. heres my example http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2014-164313037 a +Speed nature Salamence with 252 invested into speed would...