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No mod edited that post... I initially had requested a more coherent post, but decided that the quotes themselves do enough to point out the difficult language. I quote snippits to respond to the sections that I take issue with. I'm removing no context by responding to the TM portion of his...

It's unnerving to me that you and Orangeguru have to use snarky and accusatory language to debate. I'm arguing about a pokemon tier list, yet you're accusing me of being bias like I have some sort of anti-ice-type agenda. Please relax. I'm having a hard time writing neutral posts when I have to...

Of course you're putting the resources into buying Chimecho psychic. Devoting money and TMs for a pokemon is less severe of an investment than experience. Money, Calm Mind and Shock Wave are all resources that aren't in too high demand assuming that you aren't using grumpig or Gardevoir (which...

Chimecho's area is not optional, its section is. Hence why I responded: To which you responded: Edit: :/

A level 30 Snorunt is found 3.3% of the time. I think that sticking to the average, 28, is a good idea. Even Treecko has better base stats than snorunt. 14 levels of 50/50 stats in the late game should be enough to put a pokemon in F tier. If everybody disagrees with me then I guess I have to...

If Chimecho is notably worse because its grass patch is 20 steps out of your way then idk what to say. Chimecho is way more reliant on TMs. This doesn't outweigh Snorunt's cons. This just isn't true. Chimecho has 95 SpAtk while Snorunt has 50. It isn't even close.

But isn't this the whole point? If a snorunt needs to sit in your party with an EXP share for 14 levels until it can contribute, surely this is a steep enough resource investment for snorunt to be F tier. If it could kill opposing trainer's pokemon or at least do some decent damage before you...

If having to use a hyper potion in between calm minds is inefficient, adding 30 minutes to your run while you grind a snorunt is absurd. Snorunt is in a more out of the way area than Chimecho. Also, Chimecho's area is not optional (it's in a patch of grass about 20 steps away from where you...

Sableye and Pikachu have their strong niche matchups without requiring that you grind over 50,000 exp into them. Sableye can train on the 2nd gym, making progress while gaining levels and then defeating Brawley. Pikachu has a whole ocean in front of him before gym 8/Wallace. Snorunt, as you said...

Thank you! I guess we were looking at different pokemon... Regardless, snorunt is still worse than chimecho because of those 14 levels of grinding to reach Glalie. If Chimecho's stats are a travesty, I can't imagine what Snorunts must be! At the very least, Snorunt deserves to drop to F. It's...

Are we looking at the same pokemon? Chimecho has 75 HP, 80 DEf and 90 SpDef. Snorunt has 50/50/50 for those 3 stats, and Glalie has 80/80/80. Chimecho’s defensive stats are basically the same as glalie, and it’s offensive stats are better...

Snorunt requires 14 levels of 50 SpAtk/50Spd grinding at a later point in the game. Chimecho with 95 Sp Atk comes much stronger that Snorunt. While Glalie does have stronger E4 matchups, Chimecho can at least 2-3 hit random trainer battles with psychic (2 hit for sure once it gets some levels in...

That was a nice explanation. To clarify, I was never taking issue with your initial claim. I just wanted to clarify that the fluctuating experience group is one of the strongest exp groups because it takes relatively low experience to level up for most of the game...

I’ve done several speed run drafts of this game with my friends, and mid/late 40s is typical for finishing. A blaziken with bulk up or gardevoir with calm mind can sweep most of the elite 4 (not to mention rayquaza is already invalidating them anyway...)

Using stat boosting items/moves is way faster than grinding your pokemon an extra 10 levels. Most of S/A tier has access to Bulk up and Calm mind... Are we not using in-battle stat boosters?

Yes, I said it has strong stats for coming before gym 4... which it does. Your reply is incoherent. “I used this once and it was good” is a less compelling argument than facts and stats. Grinding to level 56 is incredibly inefficient. 4 pokemon at level 45-48 are more than sufficient for...

Merritt posted this earlier in the thread: “To summarize in ingame terms, Fluctuating is great through earlygame, but ... lategame Fluctuating is absolutely terrible.” Fluctuating is one of the best experience groups in pokemon. The early levels are very valuable for fast leveling because...