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quite a heated discussion we have going on here. honestly, if we voted drizzle + swift swim a combo ban, then why don't we also do sand stream + sand rush and drought + chlorophyll? takes care of the excadrill problem and "uncentralizes" drought teams before it even happens (we all know it would...

yeah, i know lol. i do that a lot, especially when im thinking in a hurry. the point is electivire fell even more behind this gen because the power creep, and imho he requires WAAAAAAAAY too much team support for anything other than a niche pokemon.

that's cuz electivire pretty much sucks ass otherwise and is owned by none other than, oh wait, like everything else, excadrill...

lmao, best analogy ever. but seriously, yes. and thats how i feel about excadrill also. pretty much every team that doesnt run an azumarill/conkeldurr/skarmory/bronzong(?) is going to be cleaved in half by the thing. part of what makes choice scarf users balanced is that they have to lock...

you and me both pal :'(

yes, terrakion can run the same set, but it also gets destroyed by the rare brick break excadrill. like i stated earlier, if you want to lure excadrill to stay in so you can check it, run a shuca berry. air balloon, while admittedly shaky is rather effective in checking excadrill. and im...

that wouldnt be so bad but its the fact that excadrill has amazing typing/base 135 attack/swords dance/excellent neutral coverage/relatively decent bulk going for it. and the fact that since it can ohko most things that would hold a scarf in the first place means that simply running one scarfer...

I agree. there's a whole 4 pokemon that can weild a choice scarf and outspeed it. and none of them can do a significant amount of damage to it to be viable (except maybe accelgor's focus blast but im not too sure about that).

You would be surprised how many dont switch or completely ignore that it has an Air Balloon in the first place. If you want a lure then why not just put a shuca berry on everything weak to ground that resists bug/normal/rock? and as Texas Cloverleaf pointed out, so what if it switches? then you...

My point exactly

I dont know about anyone else, but i've had quite good luck checking excadrill with this guy: Cobalion @ Air Balloon Justified 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe Jolly - Close Combat - Stone Edge - X-Scissor - Swords Dance I mean seriously guys. This thing laughs off Excadrill's coverage moves. And how...

not to mention that terrakion can hard counter most +1 volcarona variants anwyways assuming hp rock over ground. thats the biggest problem ive had when using the moth.

well, i could rant on it for hours lol but the three main reasons are: 1. i run pure offensive teams so every pokemon must have the offensive pressure to threaten a sweep at all times. 2. i needed stealth rock BAD because sturdy kept screwing me over and garchomp seemed like a good canidate...

sand rush, prankster, use of blissey whatsoever, etc. are also cheap.

i agree completely. im sad that for some reason we cant have dragons that are BOTH good and fun in ou.

WHY?!?!?!?!?!?!?! just wanted to say im pissed as fuck that garchomp is banned... again... i finally got to use that sr lead scarfchomp and now its gone... why? i mean honestly people, if we are concerned about things with "swampert-esque" bulk that are placed in terrific speed tiers then why...