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I guess this was my biggest gripe with the whole discussion, why does it being old make any difference for if we should keep it or not. It feels like an argument to make change for the sake of change. I personally love trying to fit a cheeky solarbeam onto torkal to try and punish any water...

You are gods strongest solider, its just that many of us could not compete with DaddyBuzzwoles 9-5 of complaining on the forums. They were on there constantly while I would put up statistical numbers. No one would see the facts, but just just say that BW2OU had a sleep ban so we should too...

Yeah there was a poll in the OU chat room on showdown that asked a quesiton of banning sleep, banning darkrai, or do nothing. The lowest percentage was ban sleep. Then it was do nothing, then ban darkrai. I don't remember the exact statistics but there was a poll.

Can you two stop fighting in the forum? This is EXACTLY what happened when people tried to make opinions for sleep, they kept calling the person an idiot and then laughed them off the forum, giving no argument. Or it would be some response like "its cartridge accurate" while no matter what...

Smh yawn is banned, I feel thats too far. That sleep in not RNG focusd

Damn didnt read far back enough

Also, people forget that getting rid of sleep gets rid of rest.

You can achieve this with a tera-nomral garg btw

Lol where, I can't find it on showdown teambuilder?

Why are we talking about Pecharunt when it isnt even out yet?

Hey, so why exactly are we planning on removing the sleep clause? Are we just getting closer to cartridge formats?

I get that banning things is a lot easier, but why should we take away diversity in game plays when we already have a complex ban in place for this mechanic. Like you said earlier, its time to change the old rules to reflect the newer play styles. Why not just make a newer, shiny, complex ban?

I want to preface this with I haven't played sleep/darkrai "cheese", I think relying on gambles is a risky strategy and I'm not comfortable taking that chance. But I still think sleep is healthy for the game. If we want to change the current complex ban it should be replaced by another complex...

He actually that incompetent. I’m here for the Napoli downfall

No I'm saying that if the metagame doesn't change (ie get in your sweeper in, press setup move+tera to avoid weakness, proceed to sweep) even with the inclusion of new toys from the DLC, then I might have to switch my views from Pro-Tera (Ban Blast it is overkill) to anti-tera because it...

Its only 2x weak to fighting so it lives a cc

I can get behind this, we're getting a whole dump of mons, what's two more (larvesta>volc)

ahhh yes, more mindgames Ok so It can either set up on you, or be a more bulky utility pivot

You might (sadly) have a point here, if the meta refuses to change with the introduction of DLC mons, and it's still the same game plan of 'get your sweeper in and get your free tera set up turn' then I think I might have to re-evaluate my stance on Tera.

So whats the point of clef then? Sure it's got Magic Guard, but if it can't knock why would it be threatening. Couldn't you just sit on it and set up?