Discuss any changes or small edits you'd like to see in uploaded analyses.
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Resource 1v1 Old Gens Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ginger Princess
- Start date
Hey. I think it's about time someone brings up that changes need to be made with the ORAS analyses project.
ORAS analyses have been extremely inactive since its inception earlier this year. Of course, some of this lack of activity is to be expected - old generation analyses projects generally tend to be less active than their current-generation counterparts - but it's certainly concerning to see that since the middle of June, we've only had one analysis uploaded, three that have been achieved due to waning interest, and six that have been in WIP for over two months. To add on to this already concerning metric, no one has reserved a single analysis since late July.
Besides the point I mentioned before, I also feel that we should have started out with mini analyses, and then progressed to fulls when every notable pokemon had an analysis on-site. Sure, mini analyses have been mainly used this generation because of the DLC drops, but it has become quite evident that minis are preferred by a large amount of the community due to the lesser workload for all parties, allowing for content to be uploaded quickly instead of sitting for months on end. I understand that people like Alakazam predominantly prefer analyses be done in full, but its become obvious that it's not allowing content to be uploaded in any reasonable timeframe. When the whole entire point of analyses is to provide content on the dex to help people understand a metagame and what we're doing right now is inefficient at best, something needs to change.
As always, thanks for reading, and have a nice day. Mubs out.
ORAS analyses have been extremely inactive since its inception earlier this year. Of course, some of this lack of activity is to be expected - old generation analyses projects generally tend to be less active than their current-generation counterparts - but it's certainly concerning to see that since the middle of June, we've only had one analysis uploaded, three that have been achieved due to waning interest, and six that have been in WIP for over two months. To add on to this already concerning metric, no one has reserved a single analysis since late July.
Besides the point I mentioned before, I also feel that we should have started out with mini analyses, and then progressed to fulls when every notable pokemon had an analysis on-site. Sure, mini analyses have been mainly used this generation because of the DLC drops, but it has become quite evident that minis are preferred by a large amount of the community due to the lesser workload for all parties, allowing for content to be uploaded quickly instead of sitting for months on end. I understand that people like Alakazam predominantly prefer analyses be done in full, but its become obvious that it's not allowing content to be uploaded in any reasonable timeframe. When the whole entire point of analyses is to provide content on the dex to help people understand a metagame and what we're doing right now is inefficient at best, something needs to change.
As always, thanks for reading, and have a nice day. Mubs out.
I agree with your overarching point that motivation for ORAS analyses aren't as high as they could be. Compared to the current Gen and even SM, the pool of qualified, motivated players who want to actually write for ORAS is low. However, I wouldn't say that the solution to this would be to dumb down analyses in order to attract less interested writers.
Fulls are used when a metagame has moved into a place of development where it is clear that no new metagame-altering decisions are going to be made, and where there has been sufficient time passed for the most viable techs to have been developed and optimized. Minis, as they are without alteration, are designed specifically to be killed off later and replaced by only discussing one set at a time and being as safe as possible with the information provided, only really talking about moves and weaknesses/teammates to beat general weaknesses. The first wave of mini analyses had huge gaps in relevant information per set, and actually describing when and where a Pokemon could be used was not really possible - even just saying 'use x mon against these types of Pokemon' would usually have exceptions and would usually have matchups that required more explanation.
We had to fix this issue by literally getting permission to just completely recreate what a mini actually was in 1v1 specifically, because we quickly found out as a writing scene and as QC scene that trying to make minis work as they normally exist and provide good information was basically impossible, and you would essentially be lying through omission about the Pokemon's actual abilities by not informing people on relevant matchups. However, the new 1v1-style minis are basically just as much work as a 1 set full (without the Overview and Checks and Counters section, but those are always free, anyway), just missing the formatting that organizes and separates everything into easy to read bites.
There also was the issue of minis creating an environment where writers would flock to easy-to-write 252/252 4 attack sets of a Pokemon while avoiding the top tier sets that required more work. SubDisable Dragapult is an example, with that set existing basically since the beginning of SS and never getting a mini analysis completed. This basically makes mini formats the way to ignore what's actually good at first and just grind out mindless attacking sets for badges.
However, the idea of minis does bring up the interesting possibility of opening up 1v1 style minis for the lower-ranked Pokemon in a given Old Gen, that don't necessarily require the same level of thought, and won't have nearly as strong of a place in the metagame to require the work needed for a full analysis. Taking SM as an example, we have a shitton of C/C-/D ranked Pokemon that are hardly ever used anymore in tournament, but still are technically viable as niche options or w/ever. I think its pretty safe to say that no one is really going to care enough to write a full analysis on a mon like Chesnaught, nor will they care if the analysis on Chesnaught is missing information on how it handles top-level threats (because lower ranked Pokemon couldn't handle most top level threats, period), so maybe doing a 1v1-style mini would be the way to go.
Another solution would be instead to focus on uploading sample sets onto the dex first so that *something* is there. I believe this was attempted with ORAS, but the set compendium available was too outdated/unoptimized/had inexplicable EVs/missing viable sets, that we decided to simply start with fulls and optimize sets as they came along. Maybe it would have been best to instead bite the bullet and create sample sets before this process began, though there's no reason we can't start them now.
Anyway, minis should be avoided like the plague. They actively withhold information and encourage the best sets in a metagame to be ignored. Changing them to fix these problems just creates Full analyses again, workload wise. At least with the Fulls they're properly organized, instead of forcing a reader to comb through everything to find the one specific part they care about. They could only be used, imo, in cases where the potential information missed out would be mitigated by the lack of actual use for a Pokemon. But if you want to fix either the timeframe of how quickly writers write, or actually getting community interest in writing ORAS, there are other ways that this can be pursued.
if there’s a single living breathing soul out there who still does sm analysis stuff please lmk. there’s a lot of things that should be updated to be more in line with what the meta actually looks like today.
here’s some sets i wanna see added / adjusted / removed; this is by no means everything but i think this is a great start.
CURRENT SET:
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Atk / 144 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Flame Charge
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
MY ADJUSTMENT:
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Substitute / Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Dance / Flame Charge / Will-O-Wisp
i feel like this one is self-explanatory, sub is the most common set by far now and is the best because of how many 50/50s / wins it can pull off against mons like lele, zeraora, mvenu, togekiss, pz, etc. that the slow bulky one just cannot beat. DD > flame charge because it gives a better chance against other zards, but i think flame charge is almost equally as useful. 252 speed is super important for the mirror and giving you better odds vs lele & pz.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Magearna @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 232 HP / 80 Def / 132 SpA
Modest Nature
- Heart Swap
- Fleur Cannon
- Pain Split
- Thunder Wave
i would say this set is better than standard fairium. WP and these EVs allow magearna to beat dragonite 100% of the time no matter the set. it also makes it beat hp fire gren / pz, and a lot of things with fire coverage. heart swap may seem confusing on a set with WP but the matchups where wp is used are not the ones where heart swap is used. HS lets it beat necrozma, manaphy, pz, meloetta, mega gardevoir, set-up without taunt in general. Twave is important 1) for hax purposes cause magearna doesnt rly need a fourth move but 2) so you have better control of your heart swap and move first: just watch this replay and youll understand https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-2158192872?p2 .
ik this is a new set im willing to explain it more on discord its definitely good enough to be a main set though message me @bradothy
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Zeraora @ Choice Band
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Iron Tail
- Outrage / Close Combat
- Fire Punch / Close Combat
i feel like this doesn’t need any explanation. CB zera is definitely on par with mixed electrium and better than physical electrium (i think an argument can even be made atp to delete phys electrium)
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Manaphy @ Iapapa / Chesto Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rest
- Acid Armor
- Calm Mind
- Scald
another set that i dont think needs explanation. its been popping off in tours for a while now and is clearly on par / even better than tail glow.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Serperior @ Psychium Z
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Leaf Storm
- Synthesis
z screns serp does better against mgarde, lele, and pz mainly, while only losing on a few matchups that seed serp gets. therefore i think it should be a main set.
ADJUST SET
Garchomp @ Groundium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Laser Focus
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Substitute
laser focus beats clef, quag, and stall necrozma while having little to no opportunity cost for not using SD (if there is some i mightve missed it, but scrolling through the vr makes it seem like lf is jus better, lmk if i did tho)
ADJUST
Crustle) @ Normalium Z / Rockium Z / Figy Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Wrecker
- Rock Blast
- Counter / Earthquake
normalium Z is just as good as rockium if not better; z shell smash restores stats to 0 so you get around intimidate, rock tomb / icy wind, and lets you bypass taunt. this lets you beat tapu fini, landorus-t, tapu lele, victini(no glaciate/wisp 50/50), and heatran just to name a few.
figy, while less useful, is still viable enough to be a main item because it beats dnite 100% of the time (except u click counter vs scarf) and prim cause of aqua jet not doing enough.
and here’s my hot take:
ADD TO ANALYSIS
fadingmemory (Crustle) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Confide
- Rest
- Rock Slide
an actually good stall mon because it gets shell armor. the fact that it can bluff shell smash means a lot of mons react differently to it in fear of counter / sturdy which turns stuff that you should normally lose to into wins (gren, groundz garchomp/golem/donphan). What it beats that reg crustle can’t: mega alt, ground z garchomp, zyg, clef, quag, mega ttar. im probably underrating this set and missing stuff; it’s super super good
same with the WP magearna, i know this is a new set so if you’re not convinced on its viability just dm me on cord i can explain a lot better @bradothy
ADD / REPLACE AIR BALLOON
Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Metal Sound
- Overheat
- Ancient Power / Earth Power
- Taunt / Earth Power
this is the only real non-grassium set, air balloon on the analysis heatran set is kinda a filler item since it’s super unreliable against grounds. max defense and hp lets this beat mega metagross reliably which air balloon cannot do. it also helps it deal with zardx. nothing else to say about it really as its just an upgrade to air balloon.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Mirror Coat / Hyper Beam
on par with elec z zone, trades some stallbreaking capability for beating garchomp, landot, zygarde, better mega alt mu, and naganadel (ik elec z can run mirror coat but it kinda wants tect).
i know actually implementing these sets is a lot harder than just saying they need to be added, and i’m willing to help with revamping analyses if anyone with the power to is interested (message me @bradothy). i was qc and council from 2019-2022 and still actively play / build the tier.
here’s some sets i wanna see added / adjusted / removed; this is by no means everything but i think this is a great start.
CURRENT SET:
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Atk / 144 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Flame Charge
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
MY ADJUSTMENT:
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Substitute / Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Dance / Flame Charge / Will-O-Wisp
i feel like this one is self-explanatory, sub is the most common set by far now and is the best because of how many 50/50s / wins it can pull off against mons like lele, zeraora, mvenu, togekiss, pz, etc. that the slow bulky one just cannot beat. DD > flame charge because it gives a better chance against other zards, but i think flame charge is almost equally as useful. 252 speed is super important for the mirror and giving you better odds vs lele & pz.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Magearna @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 232 HP / 80 Def / 132 SpA
Modest Nature
- Heart Swap
- Fleur Cannon
- Pain Split
- Thunder Wave
i would say this set is better than standard fairium. WP and these EVs allow magearna to beat dragonite 100% of the time no matter the set. it also makes it beat hp fire gren / pz, and a lot of things with fire coverage. heart swap may seem confusing on a set with WP but the matchups where wp is used are not the ones where heart swap is used. HS lets it beat necrozma, manaphy, pz, meloetta, mega gardevoir, set-up without taunt in general. Twave is important 1) for hax purposes cause magearna doesnt rly need a fourth move but 2) so you have better control of your heart swap and move first: just watch this replay and youll understand https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-2158192872?p2 .
ik this is a new set im willing to explain it more on discord its definitely good enough to be a main set though message me @bradothy
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Zeraora @ Choice Band
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Iron Tail
- Outrage / Close Combat
- Fire Punch / Close Combat
i feel like this doesn’t need any explanation. CB zera is definitely on par with mixed electrium and better than physical electrium (i think an argument can even be made atp to delete phys electrium)
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Manaphy @ Iapapa / Chesto Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rest
- Acid Armor
- Calm Mind
- Scald
another set that i dont think needs explanation. its been popping off in tours for a while now and is clearly on par / even better than tail glow.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Serperior @ Psychium Z
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Leaf Storm
- Synthesis
z screns serp does better against mgarde, lele, and pz mainly, while only losing on a few matchups that seed serp gets. therefore i think it should be a main set.
ADJUST SET
Garchomp @ Groundium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Laser Focus
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Substitute
laser focus beats clef, quag, and stall necrozma while having little to no opportunity cost for not using SD (if there is some i mightve missed it, but scrolling through the vr makes it seem like lf is jus better, lmk if i did tho)
ADJUST
Crustle) @ Normalium Z / Rockium Z / Figy Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Wrecker
- Rock Blast
- Counter / Earthquake
normalium Z is just as good as rockium if not better; z shell smash restores stats to 0 so you get around intimidate, rock tomb / icy wind, and lets you bypass taunt. this lets you beat tapu fini, landorus-t, tapu lele, victini(no glaciate/wisp 50/50), and heatran just to name a few.
figy, while less useful, is still viable enough to be a main item because it beats dnite 100% of the time (except u click counter vs scarf) and prim cause of aqua jet not doing enough.
and here’s my hot take:
ADD TO ANALYSIS
fadingmemory (Crustle) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Confide
- Rest
- Rock Slide
an actually good stall mon because it gets shell armor. the fact that it can bluff shell smash means a lot of mons react differently to it in fear of counter / sturdy which turns stuff that you should normally lose to into wins (gren, groundz garchomp/golem/donphan). What it beats that reg crustle can’t: mega alt, ground z garchomp, zyg, clef, quag, mega ttar. im probably underrating this set and missing stuff; it’s super super good
same with the WP magearna, i know this is a new set so if you’re not convinced on its viability just dm me on cord i can explain a lot better @bradothy
ADD / REPLACE AIR BALLOON
Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Metal Sound
- Overheat
- Ancient Power / Earth Power
- Taunt / Earth Power
this is the only real non-grassium set, air balloon on the analysis heatran set is kinda a filler item since it’s super unreliable against grounds. max defense and hp lets this beat mega metagross reliably which air balloon cannot do. it also helps it deal with zardx. nothing else to say about it really as its just an upgrade to air balloon.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Mirror Coat / Hyper Beam
on par with elec z zone, trades some stallbreaking capability for beating garchomp, landot, zygarde, better mega alt mu, and naganadel (ik elec z can run mirror coat but it kinda wants tect).
i know actually implementing these sets is a lot harder than just saying they need to be added, and i’m willing to help with revamping analyses if anyone with the power to is interested (message me @bradothy). i was qc and council from 2019-2022 and still actively play / build the tier.
this is just ideas for other stuff to add to the analyses that im not as confident on (or just didnt feel like writing about). Obviously if this project picks up steam i can go more in depth on them, just don’t want to write a whole lot for no reason:
*faster mgyara > current set
*stall zhaze dnite (this is not a joke, genuinely really good set) as a main set
*lorb / poisonium gren as a main set
*faster ice punch mmeta > current set (slow tpunch mmeta is balls, mgyara is not a good enough justification for how slow it is
*custap pz and victini as main sets (i think in general custap is pretty underrated)
*snatch, laser focus, and punishment added as move options on mega mawile
*grass Z volcarona as a main set
*sub endeavor mega diancie as a main set
*laser focus as a move option on mega lopunny
*faster mgyara > current set
*stall zhaze dnite (this is not a joke, genuinely really good set) as a main set
*lorb / poisonium gren as a main set
*faster ice punch mmeta > current set (slow tpunch mmeta is balls, mgyara is not a good enough justification for how slow it is
*custap pz and victini as main sets (i think in general custap is pretty underrated)
*snatch, laser focus, and punishment added as move options on mega mawile
*grass Z volcarona as a main set
*sub endeavor mega diancie as a main set
*laser focus as a move option on mega lopunny