Announcement 1v1 Suspect - Jirachi

[Camden]

The other Pokemon we're retesting is Jirachi. Like Kyurem-Black, Jirachi was banned by the council after it narrowly avoided a ban in its previous suspect, so it's also receiving another chance here.

Jirachi has been a strong presence in 1v1 since DPP when it was blessed with Iron Head and later Heart Stamp. This allows it to take advantage of a potentially devastating Choice Scarf set that when combined with Serene Grace will trigger a flinch 60% of the time. It also has mixed, Special, and Z-Move sets to deal with certain checks, but the primary reason for its initial suspect and council ban is the Choice Scarf set. Over the years, Jirachi has had to rely on its "flinchhax" more and more because some of its other options have been powercrept by other Pokemon. The process of this suspect test should determine whether Jirachi's reliance on flinching is overbearing enough for it to be unsuitable for the metagame, or if its checks and counters are sufficient in warding it off.
​

The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 76 with at least 75 games played. For this suspect test, we will be using the regular 1v1 ladder, so you must create a new account that begins with 1VJC to qualify. Jirachi will be legal on the ladder. The suspect will end on March 25th, 11:59 PM EDT. Jirachi will require a vote of 60% Unban to remain legal after the suspect.

GXE ≥ 76
Battle count ≥ 75

You must use a fresh account registered after the posting of this thread for your reqs. This alt must begin with 1VJC, e.g. 1VJC Quote

When posting in this thread, please keep in mind these rules:
1. No one liners or uninformed posts
2. No discussion on other potential suspects or the suspect process
3. Be respectful

Your post will be deleted and possibly infracted if you fail to follow them. Have fun!

 

[Jynx Nuggets]

Nice. Different of Kyub, Rachi must back. Its fair because there're so many counters like Zygar...oh wait, punch frozen https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-875021995

 

[The Official Glyx]

With the Jirachi suspect here, let's take a look at the standalone hax chances of Jirachi's infamous Choice Scarf set.

W = Win
MW = Mostly Win
U = Uncertain
ML = Mostly Lose
L = Lose

Matchups

S Rank
Charizard-Mega - ML (4 flinches against bulked X (12.96%), 3 against unbulked X (21.6%), 3 against bulked Y (21.6%), 2 against unbulked Y (36%))
Dragonite - W (Ice Punch, 3 flinches otherwise)
Gyarados-Mega - L


A+ Rank
Magearna - U
Porygon-Z - W/MW (1 flinch out of the first 2 turns vs Shadow Ball Normalium (84%))
Tapu Lele - W

A Rank
Greninja - ML (3 flinches (21.6%), needs Specs Dark Pulse/Modest Cannon)
Meloetta - W
Metagross-Mega - L (needs a Ground move, loses to Fire Punch otherwise)
Slowbro-Mega - L
Zygarde-Complete - ML (You need so many flinches here that you're better off going for the 20% Ice Punch Freeze)


A- Rank
Gardevoir-Mega - W
Jumpluff - MW (they can roll to live Ice Punch)
Landorus-Therian - ML (3 flinches (21.6%))
Magnezone - L
Mew - ML (2 flinches out of the first 3 turns vs Mewnium (math people double check my % for these, but I think it's 50.4%), Trick for Kee even though seismic wins)


B+ Rank
Aegislash - L
Altaria-Mega - MW (50/50 turn 1 between Iron Head vs Mega and Ice Punch vs non-Mega. Iron Head needing 2-3 flinches to immediately win, but Altaria cannot OHKO back.)
Donphan - ML (3 flinches (21.6%)
Genesect - W (Fire Punch)
Kommo-o - MW (1 flinch (60%))
Lopunny-Mega - W (Use Low Sweep, people)
Primarina - ML (3 flinches vs defensive (21.6%), 2 flinches vs non defensive (36%))
Tapu Fini - ML (3 flinches out of the first 4 turns vs defensive (30.24% I THINK), 2 flinches out of the first 3 turns vs just max hp (50.4% I THINK)
Tyranitar-Mega - ML (2 flinches (36%) but can also possibly live a Crunch)
Venusaur-Mega - MW (2 flinches, but you get 2 opportunities (59.04% at LEAST))
Zeraora - MW (2 flinches out of the first 3 turns vs bulked (50.4% I THINK), 1 flinch out of the first 2 turns vs non-bulked (84% I THINK))


B Rank
Aggron-Mega - L
Celesteela - L
Chansey - ML (needs Counter. 4 flinches (12.96%), 2-3 flinches after Trick (21.6%-36%))
Crustle - MW (needs Counter. 1 flinch (60%))
Ferrothorn - U (needs Protect. Fire Punch)
Garchomp - ML (2 flinches (36%))
Heatran - L
Kartana - ML (needs Knock Off. Fire Punch)
Mawile-Mega - L
Naganadel - MW (1 flinch (60%))
Necrozma - ML/W (3 flinches vs Specs (21.6%). Trick vs Berry)
Pinsir-Mega - MW (1 flinch out of the first 2 turns (84% I THINK))
Sableye-Mega - L
Togekiss - W
Victini - L
Volcarona - ML (2 flinches vs non-bulked (36%), 3 flinches vs bulked (21.6%))

Totals

Totals:
S Rank:
W 1 (without flinching)
MW 0
U 0
ML 2 (12.96-21.6%, 21.6%-36%)
L 1

A+ Rank:
W 1.5 (without flinching)
MW 0.5 (84%)
U 1
ML 0
L 0

A Rank:
W 1 (without flinching)
MW 0
U 0
ML 2 (21.6%, 20%)
L 2

A- Rank:
W 1 (without flinching)
MW 1 (without flinching)
U 0
ML 2 (21.6%, 50.4%)
L 1

B+ Rank:
W 2 (without flinching)
MW 4 (TBD, 60%, 59.04%+, 50.4%-84%)
U 0
ML 4 (21.6%, 21.6-36%, 30.24-50.4%, 36%)
L 1

B Rank:
W 1.5 (without flinching)
MW 3 (60%, 60%, 84%)
U 1 (without flinching)
ML 4.5 (12.96%/21.6-36%, 36%, 21.6%, 21.6%-36%, 1 without flinching)
L 6

One thing I find concerning in all of this is that the bulk of Jirachi's most reliable counters (ie within 15% or less possibility of failure) are all coming from B rank and below. That said, Gyarados can also mess up a considerable number of high ranking matchups with that nasty 20% flinch from Waterfall, so that really brings to question if Jirachi is banworthy, since most people, including myself, would say that Gyarados is not banworthy.

From a reliability-oriented standpoint of applying too much pressure to the metagame by means of being broken or uncompetitive, I'd have to say Jirachi is not banworthy, in my opinion. Gengar does the roll-to-win game more reliably than Jirachi.

That said, being unhealthy for the metagame is the third, and most subjective, criteria for banning something; "unhealthiness" being a notion constructed by each person's individual ideologies for what define a healthy metagame. As we've seen from the results of the Z-Detect Suspect, a general hatred of the reliance on exclusively luck-based elements can very well be enough for a ban.

 

[Kowasabii]

How to play Jirachi

But in all seriousness, looks like a fun suspect test. As far as Ban or Unban goes I don't know where I stand yet. The flinchiness can be such a threat and quite annoying but at the same time jirachi is a cool Pokémon with cool movesets and I'm looking forward the suspect.

 

[blondesasukeuchiha]

Here’s my problem with jirachi, it’s not the sheer amount of matchups it wins/loses or the flinch chance to beat specific Pokemon, the problem with Jirachi is it’s capability to beat every Pokémon slower than it. Now sure, my Gyarados is probably going to OHKO your jirachi the first turn it doesn’t flinch, but the problem is that uncertainty that no matter what Pokemon your opponent picks, if you clicked jirachi you still have a chance to win no matter the circumstance or how terrible your prediction was.

I mean unless you’re running like max speed leftovers steelix with eq in which case that is the most dom ready team I’ve ever seen because his old teams had a jirachi on every single squad.
So yeah, ban jirachi
Or don’t so I can spam it on every team and hax the hell out of everyone

 

[Foxxeyy]

‘Scuse me. I don’t check the 1v1 forum for a week, and suddenly there a flipping suspect for a mon even haxier than z-detect. Dude, seriously?


Seriously, though, why are we suspecting this? If we unban this, we should unban z-detect.

 

[Iron Crusher]

‘Scuse me. I don’t check the 1v1 forum for a week, and suddenly there a flipping suspect for a mon even haxier than z-detect. Dude, seriously?


Seriously, though, why are we suspecting this? If we unban this, we should unban z-detect.

We are suspecting this because of the way it was banned when it was, through council descisions after the suspect ended with the mon not being banned, the suspect has very little to do with the mon or the nature of the mon itself, but moreso as a way to right a wrong made by the past council, if my knowledge is correct of course.

Please excuse me if this post is out of line, as i am not council.

 

[Camden]

Jirachi has been unbanned. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usum-1v1-jirachi-retest-voting.3648617/