my thoughts on gen8 2v2 post PL 5
Mew - Mew is the only pokemon in the tier I find remotely ban worthy. I think it's too versatile for a Pokemon as good as it is. The environment is incredibly well set up for it to succeed, with a lot of the higher damage output pokemon either being slower or unable to remove mew before it starts creating problems. Imprison Transform is a gross set with both Taunt Mental Herb and Tanga Flamethrower/Psychic as strong contenders for best set that both beat a different pool of Mew's checks like Fini and Genesect/Pheromosa. Demon (ID Amnesia Press) and Morbius (ID CM Stored) are also both incredibly strong and similar sets that beat different checks (Incin/Ttar and Bulu/Steela/Fini). Mew's ridiculously limited number of actual counters I feel is severely problematic to the tier when nearly all of its checks lose to a different variant of the fundamentally same Mew set. When you include Utility and Meteor Beam as well, it becomes way too hard to reliably gauge Mew to the point where I think it compromises the integrity of preview. I don't think Mew positively contributes to the tier either because it's so awkwardly positioned as such a blatant matchup fish Pokemon that it kind of exists outside of the regular tiering framework. Mew is less of a Pokemon that has winning and losing matchups but rather a tool to reduce your opponent's ability to understand what is going on at preview. It's a Pokemon with a very large number of (potential) checks but an incredibly short list of counters.
I think my fellow ss council people
Hugo and
Despacito87 (welcome to council btw despacito) should take my thoughts into account and
Ban Mew
Genesect - Genesect is one of the Pokemon that I like a lot more now than I did before PL. I think Physical Genesect is the big reason for that as well. I've never enjoyed using Scarf/Special Genesect as it feels too exploitable and beatable in builder b/c if they care, people are conditioned to make download boost Physical Attack as opposed to Special. I think Physical Genesect is really good because of Leech Life and
especially Extreme Speed. I used Genesect a lot during this PL, especially on Rain 2. I think it's a phenomenally versatile Pokemon between Physical/Mixed Espeed Lorb, Scarf, Special Lorb, AV, and whatever else you can come up with. I do think it's probably the 4-6th best Pokemon in the tier depending on how you want to count Rain.
Nihilego - Nihilego is another Pokemon I'm a lot higher on than I was before. I think Meteor Beam is a really strong set even if it doesn't have any other options besides maaaaaybe acid spray if ur cracked as hell.
Drago and Rillaboom - I do think that Drago and Rillaboom are the 2 best pokemon in the tier full stop. I know that there are people lower on Regidrago than I am, but I think it generates a ridiculously high amount of pressure at team preview and in game. Scarf is good, Haban Protect is good, Life Orb Protect is good, specs is solid. Even if it does have a debilitating Fairy Matchup I don't think it matters enough to change anything. Rillaboom is rather obviously in either the #1 or #2 position b/c of Glide. Even with Terrain getting nerfed in Gen8, the fact that Glide gets priority is so huge. I think Fake Out is fully droppable b/c of the invisible pressure that just having the move in the available movepool brings, and Swords Dance is a really good move for Rilla to exploit that pressure. While Rillaboom does have counters, the fact that it has such a strong priority move and
access to Fake Out allows it to exert a lot of pressure even in matchups where it might have not been the best call to send out.
Tapu Fini - I think Tapu Fini is a definitive third place Pokemon b/c of its fantastic matchups into stuff like Drago, Tflame, Zygarde, Rain, Etc. It's a pokemon without very much holding it back besides being Grass/Electric weak. WP/Berry/Lorb/Scarf/Specs/Seed are all really good sets that make Fini super well rounded.
Volcanion - I think Volcanion is a top 7 Pokemon in the format easily, right behind Genesect probably. It's incredibly bulky with a great typing and ability. I think that being a fire type in gen8 2v2 is generally a huge liability UNLESS your ability makes you immune to water, in which case it's a good typing. Being Fairy Resistant as well as Water Immune makes it a really solid answer into Fini as well. Steam Eruption is a great move that can steal games randomly and I think with Wacan Berry it's probably the best single slot matchup into Rain that you can get.
Cinderace - I'm lower on Cinderace than I was before. I think it relies really heavily on Assurance to have a good matchup spread and its less than ideal speed does leave something to be desired. I definitely still think it's A tier though b/c while it does rely on teammates/assurance to succeed it does still succeed. The damage output from Cinderace is crazy though, 120+ BP stabs is nothing to scoff at coming off 116 attack Lorb.
Tapu Bulu - I think that despite being a Grassy Surge Grass Type that doesn't get Glide, Bulu does genuinely have a niche over Rillaboom. The Fairy typing gives you some helpful resistances like Fighting and Bug, and its lower speed tier allows it to flex between a somewhat fast attacker/set up mon or Minimum Speed to guarantee terrain against Indeedee basically regardless of level creep (it literally needs to be level 87 to underspeed)
Eleki and Zeraora - Eleki and Zeraora are both fantastic and definite top 10 pokemon. Eweb with dynamic speed is super useful and both of these pokemon deal crazy damage. I think Eleki is slightly better than Zera b/c of damage output but Zera is definitely more applicable as a bulky fast utility mon with Knock/Taunt. They're neck and neck in viability though and both have really large impacts on the metagame.
Eterrain / Sand - I was as low as a person could be on both of these strategies before PL but after it, I've gained an appreciation for them. I think they're really strong when clicked and demand respect at preview and builder.
Incineroar - Every time I play this tier I feel like Incin gets worse and worse. Volcanion on the rise, Fini still great, Drago solidifying its position more IMO, both Landorus forms are really good, Rain existing (and getting more optimized), Gapdos being better positioned, Mosa, BPress Mew prio rising, Nihi, Zyg, Cinder, and most importantly, Psyspam/Victini in general getting worse. Incin is probably still A- tier b/c it has nice Genesect (if u get download right lol) and Rilla matchups, but like it kinda struggles to hit the field I think.
NDDF - I think that Psyspam is in a truly truly horrible position. Rain dog walks it now, Eleki/Zera + Gene/Nihi/Cinder/Gapdos/Rilla blow it to smithereens, Incin is still legal, Drago is a big problem if you don't click Hatt. I know Bird has said "Ban indeedee" but I really do struggle to justify banning something I find to be fringe top 15 at best. Idt psyspam is a big issue in builder b/c it's just so underwhelming. You need to commit 3 pokemon to it no matter what (Indeedee/Hatterene/Vic or Hoopa or Necroz) and the 4th slot has a lot of heavy lifting to do. I think Psyspam is far too exploitable in super simple ways to be particularly good or reliable to bring in tour. It's worth prepping for but also you've likely accidentally prepped for it if you're just using good Pokemon.
Hydreigon - Lowkey the chosen one of Gen8 2v2 /j. Scarf is rly good with Dark Pulse Snarl Fire Move Draco. in all seriousness it's a good scarf user with a nice matchup spread
Level Creeping - Idt level creeping is a problem sorry Bird
Talonflame - Idk what you'd want me to say here, its like an S- pokemon b/c its great and is super good at utility.
Rain. - Rain is so good. Rain is like sooooo good to the point where I think it's the best structure you can bring in the format and maybe the best individual team. NOTE: PLEASE STOP BRINGING ZAPDOS ON GENESECT RAIN IT IS MAKING YOU LOSE GAMES. I think Zapdos is really bad b/c Genesect rain specifically needs a pokemon that can prevent Talonflame from Flare Blitzing Genesect turn 1, which Zapdos does not do. On Genesect Rain, Zera Koko Eleki are probably the only meaningfully viable options you have for your 4th slot. However, I don't think Genesect Rain is the only viable version. Kyurem/Kyub is a good 3 slot, Weezing is usable, Naganadel is good on 3, Togekiss/Nihilego is good. There's a lot of room for rain to expand on its 2 open slots that can lead to different matchup flowcharts and such. I think my biggest innovation to Rain this tour has been Maranga Toed though. Maranga Toed is so broken b/c it cleans house vs Psyspam for free and is really strong against stuff like Volcanion when using Toxic and stuff. Being able to activate Maranga for such a low HP cost with Kingdra's Surf is super useful. I think that Politoed/Kingdra when combined are the 4th best pokemon in the tier. However, I think rain is absurdly difficult to pilot. While a lot of lines are incredibly simple, there's a lot of very specific turn flowcharting/set optimization you can need to do to succeed with it in other cases. It's really hard to pilot but incredibly rewarding when you get the hang of it.
Overall, I think that Gen8 2v2 is a super fun metagame that still has a bunch of room to grow and evolve if people give it a chance. I think if Mew is banned, the quality of the tier shoots up a good amount. TY for reading my post :3
Cinderace
Indeedee-F
Victini
Genesect
Incineroar
Rillaboom
Zygarde
Celesteela
Kyurem-Black
Talonflame
Togekiss
Volcanion
Zeraora
Blastoise
Diancie
Landorus-T
Metagross
Naganadel
Regidrago
Sableye
Zapdos-Galar
Cresselia
Dracovish
Ferrothorn
Heatran
Mew
Nihilego
Ninetales-Alola
Pheromosa
Regieleki
Tapu Fini
Zapdos
Amoonguss
Arctovish
Kingdra
Moltres-Galar
Politoed
Porygon2
Snorlax
Tapu Lele
Tsareena
Tyranitar
Gastrodon
Kartana
Marowak-Alola
Latios
Landorus
Suicune
Volcarona
Barraskewda
Clefairy
Grimmsnarl
Oranguru
Shedinja
Slowbro
Tapu Koko
Weavile
Weezing-Galar
Blacephalon
Blaziken
Duraludon
Nidoking
Rhyperior
Scolipede
Metagross-Mega
Charizard-Mega-Y
Loppuny-Mega
Mawile-Mega
Deoxys-Attack
Gyarados-Mega:
Hoopa-Unbound
Blastoise-Mega
Charizard-Mega-X
Shaymin-Sky
Swampert-Mega
Tapu-Bulu
Venusaur-Mega
Blaziken-Mega
Camerupt-Mega
Latias-Mega
Manectric-Mega
Venusaur
Garchomp-Mega
Heracross-Mega
Latios-Mega
Medicham-Mega
Mimikyu
Primarina
Tyranitar-Mega
Aegislash
Aerodactyl-Mega
Altaria-Mega
Arcanine
Lucario-Mega
Sceptile-Mega
Azumarill
Entei
Pelipper
Pinsir-Mega
Sableye-Mega
Steelix-Mega
Whimsicott
Gengar-Mega
Kommo-o
Stakataka
Banette-Mega
Excadrill
Greninja
Shaymin
Terrakion
Togetic
(Mega) Gyarados
Infernape
Keldeo
(Mega) Latias
Thundurus
Gardevoir-Mega
Darkrai
Scrafty
Sylveon
Hariyama
Hypno
Abomasnow-Mega
Ludicolo
Mamoswine
Electabuzz
Furret
Salamence
Tornadus
Jellicent
Keldeo
Aerodactyl
Chandelure
Thundurus-T
Hitmontop
Manaphy
Archeops
Deoxys-D
Kabutops
Ninetales
Rotom-W
Alakazam
Bronzong
Hydreigon
Kyurem
Liepard
Lucario
Rotom-H
