Gen 3 Komm, süßer Tod(A guide to VenuPert)

[eden]

This is a team I have been using for a while now, Cowboy Dan gave me the original version,his favorite iteration runs Celebi>Venusaur and Light Screen Zapdos.

UD 's also a fan of this style of team, although he tends to like Gengar>Aerodactyl on it, to keep spikes better.

I opted to keep Venusaur though, solely because I am really enjoying using it as a lead. It's been reasonably reliable for me in test games/tour games alike, I do think it can be improved though.

VenuPert analysis

Venusaur+Swampert probably gets most directly compared to Celebi+Pert in ADV; and for the most part the advantage boils down to how good of a lead Venusaur is+abusing Sleep Powder. Venusaur(even with a specially defensive spread) is less prone to being trapped by Dugtrio, but Bold Celebi isn't the easiest thing to trap either, needing to be around

252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Hidden Power Bug vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Celebi: 265-312 -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, to be successfully trapped;
[it is not max defense here because I am assuming that enough sp.attack is run for Dugtrio, and it is faster than max speed tyranitar];

Venusaur is a bit better off but not by much,
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 80 Def Venusaur: 188-222 (54.3 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

No instant recovery is pretty bad too.

So to really differentiate itself from Celebi you kind of have to run it as a lead where it actually is pretty good, especially if you can break Zapdos Substitutes.

The extra speed on this Venusaur, drastically improves it performance as a lead.

Your list of good matchups(I define "good" as being able to get sleep off/force them out):
-Lead Skarm
-Lead Zapdos
-Lead Celebi(assuming the Sub+Seed set that BKC popularized)
-Lead Suicune/Milo/Swampert(Milotic/Swampert are relatively rarer)
-CB Gross leads
-CB Tar Leads(Non Jolly,in all seriousness Adamant is better)
-Jolteon
-Counter Lax leads


CB Mence/Lum Gross lead/CB Cross lead, all are difficult to varying extents; Lead Gar which frequently runs hypnosis, forces you to gamble on a 40%*75%(i.e. 30% chance) to come out on top.

VenuPert lends itself to a number of archetypes, most of which tend towards bulkier teams, much like this one. UD gets all the credit for popularizing this recently with his Skarm/Mag/Venu/Pert/Aero/Tar team, as well as a variety of others, being solid and relatively easy to use.

These teams in general tend to struggle with mixed physicals, and toxics being thrown around and I have tried to account for them with ev tweaks where possible and/or rarely used options like Counter Forretress.

A problem with this style in general is that the teams tend to be slow outside of the Gengar/Aero slot, physical spam that revolves around luring Swampert via multiple HP:Grass users/Toxics/Explosions can be difficult. Heracross can also match up well versus these teams in general. Getting spikes down, and trying to keep them is the name of the game and although there are matches where this can be difficult; Aerodactyl/Gengar, Spikes, and Sand have been an effective win condition in ADV for so long for a reason.

I will try to go through some of the more obvious variants of this kind of team here briefly:

(UD's lineup)

(UD's lineup)

UD's take

Zapdos (T-bolt / HP Ice / Roar / Toxic)
Forretress (Spikes / EQ / Rapid Spin / Explosion)
Venusaur (Leech Seed / Sludge Bomb / Giga Drain / Sleep Powder)
Swampert (Surf / Protect / Toxic / Roar - the infamous BKC set)
Gengar (WoW / Ice Punch / T-bolt / Boom)
Tyranitar (Crunch / Pursuit / EQ / Rock Slide)

(BKC's lineup)

All perfectly usable variants of this kind of team, all with slightly different matchups/end goals in mind, but both trying to abuse spikes being down with either Gengar/Aerodactyl to close out games. I'd also recommend standard Sp.def rest zapdos on the last three variants outlined. Celebi really does patch up quite a few problems this team has, but unfortunately makes this team a bit more vulnerable to being spiked up on easily. The Venusaur versions are also forced to run Pursuit Tar generally to avoid WoW Gengar being too much of an issue(especially since the Zapdos's on mine are not the traditional rest variant).The Celebi ones in general tend to absorb status much better, and play vs Curse Lax much more comfortably. If the Celebi is EV'd with a focus on Sp.D can conceivably opt to run sets like DD Tar(any variant is good really, from IB DD to HP:Grass DD, DD Liechi, to traditional DD Taunt) which further helps Aerodactyl later on in the game.

Cloy+Mag+Pursuit Tar is a notable trend that can trouble some of these teams at times,
along with Toxic Metagross+Magneton, which aims to force toxic on to the water as soon as possible to allow physicals like Salamence/DD Tar a shot at closing out games, the Venusaur variants also have to tip toe a bit around Hypnosis Gengar at times.

For+Pert teams can kind of struggle vs Psy/HP:Fire Metagross/HP:Grass DD Tar at times, so knowing this, and accounting for it in building/play is pretty useful.

Other than that, i think CelePert teams, are quite solid, and probably one of my favorite styles of team to use. An interesting twist is to try using, bulky Toxic+Protect Flygon over Swampert, which obviously introduces new problems, but helps makes the teams a bit better versus spike shuffling+Aerodactyl in the back.

Milotic/Suicune are options>Swampert to help solve some of these issues, and changing members around to try and fit rock resists in team members like Flygon/wish jirachi is very useful and adds to overall survivability of the team. Milotic in particular is an interesting option, and helps completely solve the issue with mixed tar/mence/gross, and even toxic variants if you opt to run Refresh.

Forretress stall analysis

Skarmory over Forretress, is obviously a choice worth considering but then some other changes would have to be made. Because these teams tend to be spike bait for opposing Skarmory to an extent, its not quite as simple as doing a straight swap. The best ideas that occur to me to account for this change are, keeping Venusaur instead of Celebi. Or opting to run an offensive 3 attack CM Celebi set to help pressure Skarmory further on its own. In addition I would consider running quiet Swampert, to make Hydro Pumps versus Skarmory sting a lot more; running Taunt Skarmory of your own, also becomes a good option then. Something like Taunt/Fire Blast/Crunch/Pursuit Tyranitar could potentially be used, but its not a particularly good set, but shuts down Skarmory, while still doing its primary duty of checking Gengar. If you're running Quiet Swampert, then you probably want a secondary rock resist like Flygon/Metagross, which further requires another change. Skarmory definitely fits/works just because of how amazing it is, but this team prefers squeezing a spinner+spiker into one slot. If I did want to run Skarmory on this kind of team, I'd probably be running a SkarMag variant of some kind.

In terms of Spikes, I think Skarmory is the one I prefer for more aggressive teams(and its also just way better, protect+toxic Skarmory is a terror in its own right);

(MDragon Aerodactyl build)

(MDragon CB Flygon+Magneton+Lax)

(MDragon BoomGar+Off. Mie build, modern variant by UD)

this is not to say that there aren't good defensive teams featuring it:

is a good defensive team(shaky vs stuff like Heracross of course), once again having no real win condition, but keeps spikes off really well, but can't really abuse them. Skarmory can get Spikes out, and even abuse them really
well.

It also potentially in tandem with bulky sp.def Gar/Pursuit Tyranitar and Toxic+Protect, keeps them vs Starmie, while Claydol without Magneton(Toxic Skarmory on its own is a good reason to run Refresh Claydol), is playing a losing game.

The standard Forretress with HP:Bug keeps its Spikes vs the two most common spinners in, Starmie and Claydol, and so keeps them on its own better than Skarmory does. Which is one of the most important things for a stall team to maintain. Being able to potentially get more than one layer(to be fair even skarm quite frequently gets 2 layers), even with Magneton on the other side, is also another reason why more defensive teams resort to Forretress(especially since this is one of the primary sources of damage output).

Forretress itself is constricting in the building stage, forcing me to run Pursuit Tar; and so the builds that you land up with while starting off with Forretress+Tyranitar, tend to be very similar in nature. The most notable(or the most classic) being Tamahome's stall:

(MDragon Cune/Flygon build)
The classic Forretress stall featuring Aerodactyl that UD mentions:

(a popular variant of the above)

The Tamahome stall, is probably one of my favorite "classic" ADV teams, along with VIL's superman. But it does tend to have problems(or I've run into them anyway) with Heracross,CM Jirachi, and mixed physicals(Tyranitar,Metagross,Salamence), so I now mess around with stuff like faster Celebi(~270 speed), Counter/TWave Blissey(actually pretty useful, you need either of Counter/Ice Beam to be ok vs Dugtrio), HP:Flying Forry, bulky Gengar with Fire Punch; all of these are obviously nothing new, but are some things to mess around with to ease the team's struggles.

Is another take on this style, this time opting to have two waters in Milotic/Swampert to ease issues vs Tyranitar/Metagross/Salamence. This team doesn't really have much offensive presence, but something worth noting is that it is much better vs physical spam teams, especially if you opt to run something like Counter Blissey so that Blissey can hold off utility Snorlax on its own. Heracross of course is still a problem, but with potentially two explosions, it can be managed.

While discussing Pursuit I feel that at least mentioning Houdoom is warranted, I think it was seen on older(before my time) stalls, and does some cool stuff; is potentially a bit more solid versus Gengar, but Tyranitar overall is much better. Houndoom does the Pursuit bit fine, but doesn't bring the extra defensive utility or the sand that Tyranitar does. Definitely usable though, if supported correctly:

Houndoom stall credits:Mael

CM+Roar Suicune
Rest+Pursuit Doom
Wish+Tect+CM Rachi
Tox+Tect Skarm
Standard Dol
Curse Lax

replacing Skarm+Claydol with Forretress to create another slot is definitely an option here. But this is one of the teams where, not having sand and having Pursuit are both needed making Houndoom a logical option.

The team itself is nothing relatively special, just a classic spikes+aerodactyl build with a solid defensive backbone(in Venu/Pert/Sp.Def Zapdos) and some small tweaks, that make me prefer it over other very similar teams. Any quick changes/tweaks as always are appreciated.

Enjoy tweaking around with this build, I certainly have!
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Some music to enjoy.
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sleep in sin (Venusaur) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 180 HP / 28 Atk / 80 Def / 108 SpD / 112 Spe
Calm Nature
- Sleep Powder/Leech Seed
- Sludge Bomb
- Leech Seed/Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain

This is a relatively rarely seen Pokemon in ADV, but I think it has some genuine perks over Celebi; The most relevant being Sleep Powder, this is probably one of the better ways to force sleep from the lead position. The EVs on this hit the benchmarks of living CB Metagross Meteor Mash, as well as being a little faster than Suicune creeping on 221 Tyranitar, and also breaking Substitutes from Zapdos. This is probably one of my better ways of abusing spikes along with Aerodactyl on this team, since I have opted to not run Gengar on this.

28- Atk Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 124 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 89-105 (25.2 - 29.8%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

236+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 180 HP / 80 Def Venusaur: 291-343 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

celebi

Shattered (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 100 SpA / 32 SpD / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psychic/Heal Bell
- Leech Seed
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Recover

Is a solid swap over Venusaur on this build,fixes a lot of the issues I have outlined earlier. Possibly running a different lead like Zapdos or Tyranitar will be better then. This OHKO's Dugtrio 100% of the time, is 3hko'd by Timid 252 Gengar Ice Punch, and outspeed max speed Tyranitar.

memento mori (Tyranitar) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Hidden Power [Grass]/Roar/Toxic/Ice Beam
- Flamethrower

Using Crunch/Pursuit Tyranitar to be somewhat ok vs Gengar which otherwise can be a major thorn in my side. Between the sand and spikes, I also pressure things like Snorlax that tend to land up in Rest Cycles; I usually opt to run HP:Grass to help Aerodactyl clean up as soon as possible, but Roar is also a very solid option which allows me to rack more of the hazard damage that Aerodactyl usually wants to get going. The original version of this team had Ice Beam which I also understand, catching Flygon and Dugtrio offguard can be quite valuable.


EVs: 240 HP / 12 Atk / 176 SpA / 48 SpD / 32 Spe
Quiet Nature
The EV spread that Foggi used in his RMT, also would fit quite well here. Makes dealing with offensive starmie a bit easier

252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 12 Def Tyranitar: 323-380 (80.5 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Other variants of MixTar running stuff like Fire Blast/HP:Grass/Ice Beam/Brick Break is also obviously usable, but before doing so the rest of the team, has to be able to deal with Gengar better.

DD HP:Grass Tyranitar/DD HP:Grass+IB Tyranitar/DDTaunt Tyranitar/bulky Mix Tar

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 16 HP / 156 Atk / 120 Def / 40 SpA / 176 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Dragon Dance

I usually crutch a lot on Pursuit Tyranitar on my builds, but if your changes improve how the team deals with status(if you opt to run [maybe a more sp.def]Celebi+Rest Zapdos); you probably have enough leeway to run this, which can be brutal in conjunction with Aerodactyl in the back and Spikes on their side of the field. You have for the most part the same defensive benchmarks as regular DD bulky tyranitar thanks to 16 HP/120 Def.

40 SpA Tyranitar Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Swampert: 214-252 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 16 HP / 84 Atk / 120 Def / 112 SpA / 176 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Dragon Dance

DD HP:Grass+Ice Beam is also a decent option for a team so centered around Aerodactyl to close games, and hey Ice Beam even helps you out versus Salamence looking to burn your attack boosts via Intimidate. Credits for this set goes to zf.

You should play around with the EVs a bit though because, if you are just looking to nail standard bulky Flygon

92 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 350-412 (100.5 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's all the special attack you need to guarantee the KO; If they are the naughty variant even 0 sp.attack does the trick.

If you are gunning to beat even more bulky Flygon:
140 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 367-432 (100.8 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So adjust accordingly!

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 16 HP / 196 Atk / 120 Def / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance

The classic bulky DD Tar set, get doubles going with Spikes down,to chip the Swampert/Milotic or force the Suicune to Rest; Dragon Dance up, possibly twice thanks to the bulk this set possesses and close out games. Especially good versus teams that rely on Spikes weak bulky waters to hold Tyranitar off; shutting off and abusing Skarmory is amazing too.

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 12 Atk / 176 SpA / 48 SpD / 32 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Fire Blast
- Rock Slide/Earthquake

Set,spread, and description lifted from Foggi's RMT, so credit goes to him.

Loads of bulk to handle Gengar, SpA to hit it hard with Crunch meanwhile the Atk EV's allow me to KO Aerodactyl with Rockslide 100% of the time and the additional Speed allows me to Creep uninvested Blisseys and Swamperts, the SpDef EV's however allow me to tank Hydro Pump from offensive Starmie and kill it with crunch as well as tank torrent range Hydro Pump from 216 SpA Swampert.

Calcs:
1) 148 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 240 HP / 48 SpD Tyranitar: 92-109 (22.9 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

2) 176+ SpA Tyranitar Crunch vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 277-326 (91.1 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

3) 12 Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4) 252 SpA Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 48 SpD Tyranitar: 312-368 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

5) 40 SpA Torrent Swampert Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 48 SpD Tyranitar: 338-398 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

twisting fate (Forretress) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion/Hidden Power [Bug]
- Earthquake/Hidden Power [Fire]/Counter

Forretress is extremely important to this team allowing me to get spikes, as well as remove them; It forces me to run Pursuit Tar alongside it on most teams however. There are a bunch of slashed options that I love messing with, and the most relevant to this team is probably HP:Fire to break the Forretress stalemates that I occasionally engage in with this team. HP:Fire also helps me get minor chip damage on opposing Gengar, which can be useful in a pinch,especially if they are the 112 sp.def version, which lives a Pursuit from Tyranitar while switching out; any chip damage on bulky gar to get it into the 68%-81% range is also helpful, although in that respect HP:Bug is probably more useful. Explosion also has its uses however, letting me remove threats like Snorlax, or severely damage a Resting Suicune. Counter is a neat option however that helps this team, with the Mixed Metagross weakness that Forretress teams frequently land up with. It also lets me pick up Aerodactyl sometimes, which can be useful if I need Swampert very healthy for something later on in the game. Paradoxically for a team that wants Spikes up so much, I can sometimes struggle to really keep them down; Preserving them versus Claydol isn't too hard, but preserving them in the forry ditto, or vs Starmie can be an issue. I have to pick and choose what I can keep Spikes against, depending on if I run HP:Fire/HP:bug or not.

broken dreams (Aerodactyl) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 224 Atk / 32 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]/Hidden Power [Flying]
- Double-Edge

This is the best Choice Bander with spikes down in ADV OU. Provides a desperately needed burst of speed which this team needs, and also lets me revenge kill threats that have gotten out of hand. There's really not much to say except I chose Hidden Power Bug, because this allows you to hit Celebi/Tyranitar in one move which is actually quite important. Also lets me revenge Starmie from a higher range which is very helpful for this team. The 32 special defense lets me take a no investment Milotic Surf, which can occasionally come in handy later on in a game.

4 SpA Milotic Surf vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Aerodactyl: 251-296 (83.6 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This can potentially let me fish, for flinches on Milotic in the late game if needed.

Flygon

Flygon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 148 Atk / 224 SpA / 136 Spe
Rash Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Fire Blast
- Substitute

If running Milotic, going for something like this over Aerodactyl lets you get a rock resist, a way to dissuade skarm from spiking up too easily on you(the fire blast from this flygon does a ton, also chunks gar for a bit more than most flygons), while also spreading toxic on to stuff like Milotic/Pert from behind a sub relatively easily.

Gone With The Wind (Flygon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Atk / 108 Def / 16 SpA / 40 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Toxic
- Protect

Something like this also works, if you need a sturdier rock resist. You could also do Flygon over Zapdos, but that probably makes running either a more specially bulky Celebi, or a Blissey needed in that spot which changes the build a bit more.

WoW Boom Gengar/4 attacks Gengar

Sin (Gengar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Atk / 8 Def / 20 SpA / 112 SpD / 80 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Explosion

Specially defensive Gengar is quite a solid way to protect spikes, and abuses spikes wonderfully. Explosion helps, remove special walls like Blissey/Regice/Snorlax, and is also useful to instantly end turns, and prevent game ending scenarios like DD Tyranitar getting a free turn to setup.

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 28 Atk / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpA
- Explosion
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Hidden Power [Grass]

This is a more recent set that has caught on thanks to UD, there are even variants that opt for Rash. This is a set that's come about as a result of Pursuit Tyranitar catching on, and doesn't put Swampert into Torrent range(because it'll be dead), so you don't end up trading Giga Drain for Hydro Pump.

252+ SpA Gengar Hidden Power Grass vs. 240 HP / 48 SpD Tyranitar: 161-190 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after 2 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery

So basically if you have two layers out, showing gengar, and doubling out, means that you win the next time tar has to come in to Gengar. At worst they double in, which means that a 50/50 might have to be played out.

CB Jolly Mence

Salamence @ Choice Band
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power Flying
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Brick Break

As suggested by UD, Jolly CB Mence is quite a good partner to VenuPert. Gives the team a powerful CB'er to abuse later on in a game, and also helps check CM Spam. Spikes make up for the loss in power from Adamant to Jolly, for the most part.

heavenbound (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 164 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]/Hidden Power [Ice]

Double Status Zapdos has been one of my favorite sets as of late, usually once you reveal Toxic, you can get lots of mileage out of Thunder Wave later on especially versus Salamence/Tyranitar/Metagross looking to Dragon Dance or Agility to close out a game; crippling stuff like CM Wish Jirachi is also valuable for this team which otherwise has a decent amount of trouble versus it. Losing the utility of standard specially defensive Zapdos's Light Screen is annoying but I think this makes up for it to some extent. If I manage to squeeze all the utility that I want out of it, I can make Aerodactyl's job far easier.


+1 252+ Atk Salamence Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 36 Def Zapdos: 304-358 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 192+ SpA Suicune Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 224+ SpD Zapdos: 200-236 (52.2 - 61.6%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Which means I can relatively freely bring this in on either of them. It also checks MixMence extremely well.

Traditional Sp.Def Rest Zapdos/Offensive Zapdos

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 164 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Light Screen
- Roar
- Rest

Helps shore up the team a bit more defensively, and obviously sticks around for longer too. Especially potent if you opt to run Heal Bell Celebi along with it.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roar
- Toxic

Credit to UD for reminding me that this exists, Modest Zapdos is extremely dangerous and is especially potent with spikes(preferably multiple layers) in play. Zapdos, is quite good at forcing Toxic on to opposing special walls such as Regice/Zapdos or electric resists such as Celebi and forcing them either to rest(in the case of Regice), or burn Softboiled/Recover PP and be forced to eat Spikes in the case of Blissey, and Celebi. Celebi is pressured even harder considering that this particular Zapdos runs HP:Ice; needless to say Swampert frequently ends up catching Toxic too. Roar only helps abuse the Spikes even more. On more offensive teams, that tend to use Utility Snorlax to check regular Zapdos; with spikes down and 383 sp.attack thunderbolt coming down, they really can come in comfortably only once unless they're backed up by wish; which frequently forces telegraphed self destructs and puts them in a tough spot. To really deal with Modest Zapdos with spikes down, having something like Bslam/Fire Punch/Wish/Tect Jirachi to help keep everything healthy is really appreciated.

drag you with me (Swampert) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 44 SpD / 48 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Rest/Hydro Pump/Roar
- Protect

Swampert is the all important rock resist for this team; the 44 sp.def lets me tank Modest 252 Sp.Attack HP:Grass from full health, while the speed helps me be faster than Blissey, another interesting option is to creep a bit more and be faster than Mix Metagross, that further eats into my bulk however. Hydro Pump and Roar are both very useful moves that can easily be used over Rest, but I opt to use Rest to be a bit safer versus the current trends of Toxic physicals. There are other options as waters that also make sense on this kind of team, Suicune and Milotic both pop to mind rather quickly; even offensive Starmie makes sense in that it would make the team a bit faster overall, but that would probably result in other wholesale changes to the team. I'd need to figure out a way to fit in Metagross, or a Flygon somehow, so from a team building standpoint as well Swampert was the most obvious(if boring) choice.

252+ SpA Metagross Psychic vs. 240 HP / 44 SpD Swampert: 136-160 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- 28.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

The bit of special defense also helps quite a bit versus quiet mixed metagross, especially if you opt to creep upto 158 speed.

Sadly you are still 2hko'd by HP:Grass from DD Tar, so you do have to scout for it if possible.

milotic

Myopic (Milotic) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Refresh/Toxic
- Recover

Milotic over Swampert is a solid call as well, which probably makes running Flygon needed.

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Threatlist

I like this team a lot, but like all teams it certainly has its weaknesses.

- Like a lot of Forretress/Swampert teams it tends to struggle vs stuff like DD HP:Grass Tyranitar. Mix Tar can also be quite irritating as well. Sub/FPunch/HP:Grass Tyranitar is also pretty vicious versus this kind of team. Especially until its shown what the last move is. Forcing spikes on to CB Tar, and trying to mix up my answers to it, is usually my best course of action.

-Seeing MixGross boom on to Zapdos isn't the rarest thing, sometimes that's even my best course of action. CB Metagross can be awful to deal with, especially if it manages to get an attack boost on an incoming swampert, I can potentially lose a game on the spot. It also basically forces a trade eventually via boom, so needs a fair bit of playing around to try avoid it landing on Pert.

-CB Mence, pursuiting CB mence and chipping it down with sand, is usually my best answer. Zapdos is a solid check to mixmence, Aerodactyl provides a burst of speed vs it later if needed. DD Mence usually is easy to handle between Zapdos/Swampert

+

-Sp.Def Gengar paired with Dugtrio can be quite rough if they get Spikes down quickly;

+

-Opposing Forretress+Gengar matchups are very annoying with this sort of team. Especially if I'm not running the HP:Fire forry variant.

+

- Skarmory can lay down spikes and keep them pretty easily if paired with Gengar. Skarmory+Hypnosis Gengar can be particularly bad to deal with.

- The team actually struggles quite a bit vs Blissey at times if it does not get pressured properly. If I can't get spikes up Blissey can actually sit on a good portion of my team; so getting spikes out and keeping them is quite important for me.

-Lead SubCM Cune can be very annoying; Offensive Suicune is another thing the team can struggle with if it sets up for free, only real space to do that though is probably on Tyranitar since i tend to run Explosion Forry. Running Toxic Pert, and having TWave Sp.def Zapdos means it probably won't ever get too out of hand, especially with spikes+sand and cb aerodactyl in the back

+

- DD Tar+CB Aerodactyl and spikes in conjuction with each other can be quite brutal, because I rely solely on Swampert as my rock resist, and I don't run a Jirachi either to help reduce the impact of spikes via Wish.

- Heracross as is usual for this kind of team, can be extremely rough. Sub Salac SD ,CB Cross, and SD+3 attacks Heracross are all quite difficult to deal with.

-CM Rachi if I do not Thunder Wave it, is very troublesome; either of Superrachi or Wish CM can be hard to deal with. The physically defensive Jirachi with Toxic can be very brutal, and can easily spread toxic on this team, and with no Heal Beller or reliable way to absorb status it can be quite troublesome; The Celebi version helps by letting me Heal Bell the Toxics away later on. Forgot to mention this before, but mixed Jirachi can shred this too.

-CM 3 attacks Celebi can again be very troublesome to deal with, if it gets going. SD Pass via Celebi to stuff like Aerodactyl/Tyranitar/Gyarados can also be troublesome; if you are having trouble playing around it, consider running Roar Pert+Roar Tar. CM Pass Celebi, especially if paired with Agi+BP Zapdos can potentially form a very potent late game core, worth watching out for, Tyraniboah/MixGross/MixMence are also potentially very good recepients.

- Toxic/HP:Ice Zapdos can potentially be very hard to deal with. It spreads toxic on to my team pretty efficiently. Modest Zapdos with Spikes+Roar is also nasty to face. CB Zapdos is a bit of a meme to me, but if backed up properly, it can probably pressure my team enough to open up a path for something else. It actually does a respectable amount to Swampert, ~35% is a healthy chunk, especially if there is something like a DD Tar paired along with it.

- Snorlax can be awful to deal with if I do not get spikes going soon enough; If I do get them going between Leech Seed/Crunch Tyranitar/CB Aerodactyl I am usually fine; Curse EQ can be very rough if I'm forced to face it with it Tyranitar early. Utility lax also has to be played around carefully, especially when baiting the self destruct.

- Flygon, especially the CB variant can also be quite troublesome. Sub+3 attacks,Sub+Toxic+Fire Blast Flygon with spikes down are quite good as well versus this team;

-HP:Fire Cloyster can be very hard to maintain spikes versus

+

: Snorlax+CM rest Suicune, is annoying because of how they will burn through your Leech Seed PP on either of Venusaur or Celebi reasonably quickly; the key versus them is to get your hazards out, and keep them down to force them into rest cycles that you can abuse.

-Guess it is worth noting that with Venusaur>Celebi it can be a little harder to switch into Swampert at times, although I'm less concerned with switching into it really, than abusing it for spikes/luring it to allow Aerodactyl to clean up a game. Can always try traditional sp.def zap if needed.

-Jolly DD Rock Gyara can potentially be annoying if I don't catch on to the set quickly enough. DD HP:Rock+Double Edge Gyara can also be difficult if I run into it, on a DD Spam of some sort. DD+TWave Gyarados can also potentially be a bit annoying, especially if i bring Aerodactyl into it. DD Taunt is reasonably easy to deal with for the most part here.

- Offensive Starmie also potentially looks troublesome, but between sp.def venusaur,pert,HP:Bug Forry,Aerodactyl,tyranitar, and sp.def zapdos it usually is not too hard. If its bad enough I can always just run the more specially defensive ttar spread shown above.

Offensive Milotic is relatively rare compared to the other offensive waters shown above, but with spikes down and Hypnosis, it can actually be quite tough to deal with.
Even regular Milotic can be difficult to go up against, thanks to its instant recovery. Venusaur can't quite sit on it like Celebi can, and also runs the risk of getting frozen.

/

/

-It might be funny to mention them but fire types traditionally are a bit slept on in adv. All of Moltres/Houndoom/Charizard can be threatening to this team in different ways. Moltres(SubWoW+Spikes is pretty beastly) and Houndoom can spread turns with free turns, while Charizard if it gets a sub up on something like Venu/Forry getting forced out, or Pert protecting to scout for HP:Grass can be nasty. Sub Punch with HP:Grass kind of does rip this apart. The more recent Sub+Toxic Zard(credit to Dan/Deadboots) can also be quite annoying and hard to deal with.

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import

Sleep in Sin (Venusaur) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 180 HP / 28 Atk / 80 Def / 108 SpD / 112 Spe
Calm Nature
- Sleep Powder/Leech Seed
- Sludge Bomb
- Leech Seed/Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain

Sayonara Sunrise (Tyranitar) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Hidden Power [Grass]/Roar/Toxic/Ice Beam
- Flamethrower

Twisting Fate (Forretress) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion/Hidden Power [Bug]
- Earthquake/Hidden Power [Fire]/Counter

Broken Dreams (Aerodactyl) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 224 Atk / 32 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]/Hidden Power [Flying]
- Double-Edge

Heaven's Herald (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 164 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]/Hidden Power [Ice]

Riptide Resonance (Swampert) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 44 SpD / 48 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Rest/Hydro Pump/Roar
- Protect

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Some shoutouts to friends are in order:

s/o

too many from ct to bother naming, ty to drivers+ for keeping ct running properly
probably have forgotten to mention some other friends as well, ce la vie!

UD, CZ. , Astamatitos, ToF - Still the best :E; thanks to all of you for always being willing to go through my teams and give me feedback, games, or just teams.

Smurf. - ty for the countless games and tests, hope to play you again soon.

Ibidem - you are the real goat; stay buildin'!

Blightbringer - man you're the real MVP, you are genuinely interesting to talk to, on a number of subjects. Hope to see you on discord a little more often

Foggi - ty for drafting me in roapl, it was quite a fun group; the NSFW room was the best thing ever

TraceofLife - ty for suddenly asking me to be a part of your powc team this year
Analytic - ty for asking/letting me be on your wc team, apologies for losing in the only game i played; you are also the biggest naruto fan ik.

Cowboy Dan - lol you are probably one of the nicest people on this site. have had a lot of good games with you, and love chatting with you about adv in general

TSR - ty for being a weeb, and helping me burn many hours when i'd be working on school work instead

Hugo Barrington - mr.worldwide never fails to deliver

Not Troller - ty for being my manager in EGL, you definitely have a knack for dealing with people, as well as being an excellent player in your own right. You always let me bounce a bunch of ideas around.

Coffe - you are a nice guy, it is fun to play games vs you and talk about your teams and stuff

CKW - you're a great lad, i used to know you as cz's tutee; but you're a cool dude, and good player in your own right; don't be a stranger

yuruuu - you still the best

Jarii, Snowy, HT, DaAwesomeDude1 , Cynde : You guys make discord quite entertaining, especially dad1's "exploits"

BHARATH_THEBEST - I always thought you'd be one of those annoying ladder kids. A credit to you, and a sign of how bad I am at judging people that you aren't. Your teams have been spreading like wildfire, and I hope they continue to do so.

chop , The Trap God - stag clan's p fun! i didn't give the experience enough credit; rip mags on smogon; gonna be more active

MrAldo - old man of ct, hope to see you stick around for a long while yet. ik you always enjoy dabbling in metagames, so i hope you enjoy going through this.

Kingler12345 - lol you're gay, you like anime though so it is fine; danshi is fire. I might not say it often enough, but i enjoyed tweaking stuff with/for you in wc as well as testing.

Floppy - I have not interacted with you as much as I would like to, but I have played against you enough, and talked with you just enough to know that you are always down to give advice, and help to people who need/want it. great player too

Deadboots- again i only got to know you more recently, but you're great to interact with. Its been a pleasure helping you playtest.

Lord Ninjax - you can occasionally be irritating, and annoy me; but for the most part it is fun interacting with you, you have some funny ideas on adv that maybe most people don't agree with, but that's part of the fun.

The Idiot Ninja - another italian rbyer, rofl. you are once again, a nice person to interact with like most of the people I've been dealing with recently; looking forward to get to know you better.

Mael - i didn't know you before, but thank you for introducing me to music that has more to it than beeps and boops; I've listened to stuff that I probably would not have found on my own over summer, and it has been a very enjoyable experience.

Steven Snype - you the real mvp looking forward to your walrus.

CALLOUS - ty for the chance to participate in the invitational, hope to meet up sometime.

obii - good friend, i want to thank you for letting me be a part of your oupl team it was once again a great group to be a part of.

MattyBrollic - the same as above, you made the atmosphere really easy going and comfortable

sedertz - grats on making US Metro this year, hoping it is the start of something special for you

musicaltide - sipping tea indefinitely. still the best

Isza - you're not here yet, but I'm really happy to have had someone as good and eager to learn as you, for my first tutee. hoping to see you back soon.

AM - might enjoy this; wb

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Replays:

replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-582880993 - replay in r3, of invitational vs tamahome

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3ou-276647 - vs navy in a friendly

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-568208195 - in a ladder game(come back soon dude)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-573461036 - vs coffe in powc(i am a choke artist)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3ou-284270 - vs CZ

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-565919022 - vs CZ in powc

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3ou-284693 - vs VIL in r1 of invitational

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I hope to get some good feedback on this team. Thank you for your time if you somehow managed to reach the bottom of this.

 

[UD]

Great post Sunny. Really good content here and you explained everything thoroughly. This post inspired me to share a history lesson for anyone interested.

This team dates back to NetBattle years (like 2007-2008?). For whatever reason back then, I refused to use Blissey - dumbest decision ever, since Blissey is incredible - and Electric types were a lot more commonly used. When I say Electric types, I'm basically referring to strictly Raikou since Zapdos and Jolteon still see plenty of usage today. So Raikou was used a lot more often and Zapdos was almost 100% of the time used as a Sleep Talker. I had a hard-on for Swampert back then the way I do today, and I somehow had the inspiration to pair it with Venusaur for the "perfect" tandem Electric type counter. Basically even HP Ice Raikou is never really breaking through Venusaur and HP Grass versions need 10,000 consecutive full para's to do the trick. So VenuPert was born. I'm pretty sure I made a post on here about the exact thing, but this was before the massive data wipe so it might be lost forever.

Anyway, the original team was:

Light Screen Offensive Zapdos / Reflect Claydol / CurseLax / BoahTar / Venusaur / Swampert (with Rock Slide!)

When I played my first game of ADV on Showdown, sometime around April, 2016, this was the only team I knew, so I built it. And that was the day I learned how incredible WoW Gar, Toxic, and SpDef Skarmory were. I laddered pretty successfully for a while and bumped into none other than Astamatitos on an alt; he was practicing for WCOP at the time. I struck up conversation with him and he gave me tips on that awful team I was using. He suggested Forretress > Claydol because the rest of the team did a pretty good job at forcing switches, and Spikes are the perfect way to capitalize on that. I was like Forretress, lol? That piece of garbage Mon? Forry was literally terrible (some people still think it is) and never used back in NB. But I took him seriously and tried out the change.

I still couldn't beat WoW Gengar (such an overcentralizing Mon!), and Forretress made the problem waaaay worse. I was using Zap Cannon for the longest time. Honestly, it's not bad. If you can Paralyze Gengar then you've just ruined your opponent's day. But still this wasn't sustainable at all. I was relying on the only true "50-50" in Mons to beat Gengar. I don't remember the exact moment I discovered Pursuit Trapping existed, but the day I did, it turned the team from a mediocre squad to a legit team capable of going against most quality opponents.

So the new team was :

Light Screen Zapdos / Forretress (still using Zap Cannon xD) / CurseLax / Pursuit Tar / Venusaur / Standard Swampert (I had learned by this time how good Protect was)

Well Forretress even with Pursuit Tar support is not the most reliable Spinner in the world, I was bringing my own Sand every game, and just the general pace of the metagame led me to discover that CurseLax is actually kind of awful. I would never use it again without the FULL CAST of support. Magneton, Pursuit Tar, probably Claydol, something to lure Celebi, Dugtrio, etc. So Snorlax got the boot. I tried out a few different options in that slot but eventually settled on my own WoW Gengar. It protects my own Spikes and gives me the second Salamence switch in this kind of team really needs. The then, and still current, lineup is now:

Zapdos (T-bolt / HP Ice / Roar / Toxic)
Forretress (Spikes / EQ / Rapid Spin / Explosion)
Venusaur (Leech Seed / Sludge Bomb / Giga Drain / Sleep Powder)
Swampert (Surf / Protect / Toxic / Roar - the infamous BKC set)
Gengar (WoW / Ice Punch / T-bolt / Boom)
Tyranitar (Crunch / Pursuit / EQ / Rock Slide)

I think this is still a really strong team that's capable of going against most lineups out there. Its biggest issues are certain Heracross sets (though there are definitely ways around it), Jirachi, Celebi, Blissey if you didn't get your Spikes, and late game DD Mence. Even Skarmory can be a real pain at times. And that is with basically the two best Skarmory switch ins in the tier, outside of Magneton. If you're looking for a perfect partner to VenuPert by the way, it's Jolly CB Mence. Aerodactyl is great on the team, don't get me wrong. It shores up a lot of weaknesses fantastically. It's just that I can't bring myself to use Forry without Gengar, and then there's flat out no room for both Aero and Gengar. If I want both then I might as well use standard Forretress stall (Forry / Gar / Blissey / Swampert / Tar / Aero, Dug, or Moltres lol).

I am gonna do the lame thing and take full credit for the origin of the team. My version isn't the one popularized - the credit to that goes to a combination of Cowboy Dan , Eden's Embrace , and others, for sure. Also I use the term popularized pretty loosely since this team isn't exactly found in everybody's builder. It's definitely a solid Forry squad that can get a lot of mileage out of its Spikes and I would encourage people to try it out and just see the synergy of Grass type + Swampert as a hybrid Special / Physical wall. Also don't use SpDef Zapdos! Ugh. Offensive is the way to go. There's only one (two I guess if you count Jolteon and three I guess if you count Steelix) switch in to 383 SpA STAB Thunderbolt with 3 layers of Spikes down in the tier. It's a beautiful thing. Don't ruin it.

Sorry for hogging what was supposed to be your RMT, Sunny. I got pretty nostalgic when you posted this and wanted to share my story. Tagging JabbaTheGriffin in case he recalls any further details of the origin story and wants to fact check me. Also cuz he's my bro.



Go Raiders.

 

[Lord Ninjax]

Oh, hey, sunny dropped another rmt!

I think a while ago (March or so iirc) I was frustrated with how my usual jank offense was getting stuffed by the adv ladder so I asked you for teams and you passed me this, and having witnessed UD's Venu shenanigans I was definitely a little interested in the concept of the team. Suffice it to say that yeah with its aid I got out of my funk, and as a whole sorta motivated myself to build more solid teams, abuse spikes more, wield lures...basically I started copying what everyone else was doing in adv and I think my game improved a little from that.

The Team itself is an example of an adv structure thats as old as time itself (this is what I hear, since yeah I wasn't around since the beginning of time lol), Spikes + Aero, which constitutes the most functional way of chipping down Rock Resists and then winning with Aero in the lategame because Rock Slide is broken lmfao. On one of my variants of this I have boah + modest zap and skarm as the spiker, which I used as an example to illustrate both a) what forretress does for the team because with no magneton skarmory can spike freely and pressure the team a lot assuming you were running skarm as your spiker, and b) how your variant forces you to run a more defensive zapdos and pursuitar so opposing Gengar doesnt invalidate Forretress by spinblocking + general abuse. Basically Pursuitar and Forry together do a good job of controlling the hazard game unless you're facing some skarm + gar + mag thing (mag picking off forry can make skarm a little troublesome for you to deal with plus skarm mag usually tags with aero which can be a struggle since again pert is the only check....but its workable if you play right ig.)

I think there's a few 'optimisations' that can be made to make the machine flow a little better, because as you mentioned it does have some troublesome matchups vs which you have to play really sharply or get lucky. For one thing I think that Counter Forry makes for one of the better iterations of the team simply by being a backup to pert on the physical offense front - counter allows you to surprise ddtar, metagross, aero, and a lot of other things that would break through you otherwise should pert go down. Granted as I mentioned earlier you really want EQ on Forry so Mag doesnt invalidate you, and you need HP Fire to win forry dittos. It's a pick your poison, I think Counter is the easiest move to drop tbh because you can just crutch on Swampert, but it's nice to have Counter in case everything goes wrong. Welp.

While testing with a few teammates for wcop, I randomly lost to a surprise brick break from a mixtar (trying to set-up my ddtar on it cause I assumed 'its 88% so he doesnt ohko with anything and I sweep him ha'), from talking with him after the game I gleaned that it was apparently an asta tech, and yeah I think the team could really appreciate it here, since as you mentioned you have issues with lax, bliss and tar which this would handle without requiring you to give up too much in the way of coverage. I don't really think theres a downside, the fact that yeah it's an imperfect check sucks and it keeps you from running modest pursuitar, but again you can run foggi's spread which works really nicely, and doing something to force out threats (and force them to eat spikes over and over again which may be the tipping factor) is better than nothing.

Thoughts about Venusaur vs Celebi and VenuPert as a core: I think Celebi is usually the better mon by sheer virtue of versatility and better stats (as well as set customisability, Venu can run a few different things but yeah it can't do the sheer plethora of things Celebi can that.), but Venu has a few selling points over it in certain circumstances. Sleep is the big one, but its also a more standalone electrics check because unlike Celebi you don't care about Toxic, and again as you mentioned above you can't dug it or lure it with hp bug like you would Celebi. Problem is though that the things you'd usually lure Celebi for are Snorlax and Suicune which eat through Venusaur with impunity, so if you're running Venu you want backup checks for these two anyways. Celebi tends to take on physical offense as a whole a lot better than Venusaur does, while Psychic resist helps you in standing off Jirachi, higher SDef and threat of Psychic wards away Gengar...yeah Celebi does a lot. It's even nice for checking opposing Celebi since if those have Psychic they can just shred through you and absorb your sleep.

CelePert and VenuPert both also gain from Pert's addition in a similar fashion, basically Pert is a backup check for electrics that also keeps physical offense (mence meta tar aero and crew) from running all over your grass type, and it appreciates Celebi covering it a little vs Gengar, special attackers, etc etc, as well as opposing grass types and Snorlax. Weaknesses are obviously stuff like Skarm which can trade 60% for 3 layers comfortably and come back to heal up via tect later, as well as full on special offense that threatens to steamroll you, so like UD said stuff like Jolly CBMence and Mag / Forry can be good partners.

But yeah, I think this team maximises Venusaur's positives better than most I've seen. For example a while ago I threw Venusaur over Celebi on a different team of mine but then I was forced to tweak the hell out of it so that certain things didnt show up to rain on my parade (I got it to the workable stage, but not to the point where I'd consider using the team seriously - original team was cbmence pursuitar hp fire forry regular pert reflect celebi wishcm jirachi, so it was kinda similar to the rmt concept actually. Forretress ftw!) This team has none of that - you have zap covering cune for venu, sand and spikes maximising the damage you do to the slow sweepers that Venu can't stop, while also maximising on Venu's role checking electrics (didn't help you vs my cbzap but we can overlook that I guess) and making the most of the sleep. gj.

Lastly I want to comment about the Venusaur offense we came up with in tutoring chat, which I think has created some...polarising opinions as noted below:

Dan the Man - 07/04/2017
The team looks like something ninjax would make
Since it's terrible and loses to everything
I'm Demi!!!!! - 07/04/2017
Ey
That's unkind Daniel
Dan the Man - 07/04/2017
Shut the fuck up ninjax no-one asked you

The team is cbmence pursuitmeta eq lax magneton offensive spin starmie and venusaur (yes UD, lax is better than bliss in the slot and I stand by that). This team, as you can see, does benefit from venu on the lead slot, since it's offense so it can take huge advantage of something being slept, appreciates venu covering electrics so lax doesnt have to eat repeated tbolts and get chipped like hell, and it also enjoys leech support for longevity while covering the team against most of venusaur's issues (granted you have to get lucky / play really tightly vs certain things like opposing lax and ddtar+aero cores but its doable).

But anyways, yeah this is a fine creation, that balances innovation with practicality and has proved itself in game after game. Kudos to UD for the concept and Sunny for making it work!

(this probably looks terrible so I'll edit it at some point for readability)