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Tournament UPL Post Tour Team/Set Dump
- Thread starter Aberforth
- Start date
gm everyone! just wanted to share the teams i used in this UPL. it was a super fun tournament, and I’m really grateful to be a part of the Drizzlers franchise.
W1 vs Bbeeaa (L)
So, bea had never played sv ubers before, and i figured bringing stall could be a good move since it’s good against people who aren’t familiar with the tier. I had two versions of stall: one with Normalceus (which lost to sd rayquaza) and one with Skarmory (which lost to kyub). I ended up going with the Skarmory version, but my opponent brought kyub. i tried my best, but he still had dd beam groundy and taunt mirai boots. its over .
W2 vs Soulwind (W)
For the match against Soulwind, i prepped by checking Fc's scout and noticed that Miraidon with agility solar beam was a good call. I had built this team to face Kate in wcop but ended up not using it, so i thought it would be worth it to recycle it here. It had ho-oh with sunny day to fish ogre, and it worked really well and i ended up winning that one.
W3 vs Reje (L)
For this one, i just went with a team i was comfortable with that could handle fats, which was what i saw in my opponent’s scout. But he ended up bringing screens, i was a bit unlucky, missing a draco in the start of the game, but i could've played better tbh.
W4 vs 7u9i2 (W)
Another week i went with something i was confortable with, Waterceus looked really solid in the scout, so i decided to bring it and managed to outplay really well, i was on fire that night.
W5 vs Abriel (L)
Well, in this week, i expected my oppo to bring something more passive, so i built with uturn Gliscor + subs Ho-oh, a combo i really like. But i think this was the only game where i really played terribly in this UPL, and i almost won just because i got super lucky lol.
W6 vs Myjava (L)
This week, i thought bringing webs would be a good idea since i hadn’t used them yet. But unfortunately, my opponent had the same idea, so it was a webs mirror match. I ended up losing the speed ties and the game as a consequence.
W7 vs Lasen (W)
For this match, I discovered two days before the game that Zamazenta was broken, and i tested it on the ladder with great results. So, I wanted to use it, and it worked really well. Zama only didn’t win the game because lando had rock tomb for some reason.
Semis vs Kate (W)
The original idea was Scarf Eternatus + Scale Shot Koraidon, but i switched to CB Koraidon + Scarf Miraidon. I was pretty sure she wouldn't bring something offensive, so it would work well. I hadn't used any NDM in this UPL until now (bc ndm is bad lol im #1 hater), so bringing it would be good. In the end, she brought stall, and i was well prepared for that with CB Koraidon + Spout Kyogre, so i managed to win.
Semis TieBreak vs Kate (W)
I knew she wouldn't bring a very passive team because i used cb korai last week, and she wouldn't want to lose to that again. So, i thought about using webs, which would do well against offensive teams, but i was undecided on which mons to use. I ended up choosing a sketch of Taka's last week's team to use. I think i changed the moveset of all the mons, except the fucking CM Dtail Arceus-Ghost which made me win the game, funfact i almost put taunt over dtail hours before the game.
Ngl this might be my favorite team atm, I've been getting some great results with it on the ladder
It’s not the result i was hoping for, but a 5-4 record isn’t bad. I’m glad i won when the team needed me most. Big thanks to my teammates for their support and to Perry Thor for drafting me and choosing me for the tiebreak.
So, bea had never played sv ubers before, and i figured bringing stall could be a good move since it’s good against people who aren’t familiar with the tier. I had two versions of stall: one with Normalceus (which lost to sd rayquaza) and one with Skarmory (which lost to kyub). I ended up going with the Skarmory version, but my opponent brought kyub. i tried my best, but he still had dd beam groundy and taunt mirai boots. its over .
W2 vs Soulwind (W)
For the match against Soulwind, i prepped by checking Fc's scout and noticed that Miraidon with agility solar beam was a good call. I had built this team to face Kate in wcop but ended up not using it, so i thought it would be worth it to recycle it here. It had ho-oh with sunny day to fish ogre, and it worked really well and i ended up winning that one.
W3 vs Reje (L)
For this one, i just went with a team i was comfortable with that could handle fats, which was what i saw in my opponent’s scout. But he ended up bringing screens, i was a bit unlucky, missing a draco in the start of the game, but i could've played better tbh.
W4 vs 7u9i2 (W)
Another week i went with something i was confortable with, Waterceus looked really solid in the scout, so i decided to bring it and managed to outplay really well, i was on fire that night.
W5 vs Abriel (L)
Well, in this week, i expected my oppo to bring something more passive, so i built with uturn Gliscor + subs Ho-oh, a combo i really like. But i think this was the only game where i really played terribly in this UPL, and i almost won just because i got super lucky lol.
W6 vs Myjava (L)
This week, i thought bringing webs would be a good idea since i hadn’t used them yet. But unfortunately, my opponent had the same idea, so it was a webs mirror match. I ended up losing the speed ties and the game as a consequence.
W7 vs Lasen (W)
For this match, I discovered two days before the game that Zamazenta was broken, and i tested it on the ladder with great results. So, I wanted to use it, and it worked really well. Zama only didn’t win the game because lando had rock tomb for some reason.
Semis vs Kate (W)
The original idea was Scarf Eternatus + Scale Shot Koraidon, but i switched to CB Koraidon + Scarf Miraidon. I was pretty sure she wouldn't bring something offensive, so it would work well. I hadn't used any NDM in this UPL until now (bc ndm is bad lol im #1 hater), so bringing it would be good. In the end, she brought stall, and i was well prepared for that with CB Koraidon + Spout Kyogre, so i managed to win.
Semis TieBreak vs Kate (W)
I knew she wouldn't bring a very passive team because i used cb korai last week, and she wouldn't want to lose to that again. So, i thought about using webs, which would do well against offensive teams, but i was undecided on which mons to use. I ended up choosing a sketch of Taka's last week's team to use. I think i changed the moveset of all the mons, except the fucking CM Dtail Arceus-Ghost which made me win the game, funfact i almost put taunt over dtail hours before the game.
Ngl this might be my favorite team atm, I've been getting some great results with it on the ladder
It’s not the result i was hoping for, but a 5-4 record isn’t bad. I’m glad i won when the team needed me most. Big thanks to my teammates for their support and to Perry Thor for drafting me and choosing me for the tiebreak.
hey everyone, here is a team that Hoopas Dad absolutely wanted to use every week but didn't happen cause too broken.
https://pokepast.es/c3e8c56993031c1f
https://pokepast.es/c3e8c56993031c1f
https://pokepast.es/c3e8c56993031c1f
https://pokepast.es/c3e8c56993031c1f
https://pokepast.es/c3e8c56993031c1f
https://pokepast.es/c3e8c56993031c1f
https://pokepast.es/1ac77a2cf1328afb
this is my favourite ho and get 2 win in upl，and easily get the top of the ladder，i like the build of glimm and grimm
dont easily start with glimm when the opponent dont have iron，It can give big pressure to hooh and tinglu，mirai can choose from overheat cm agility or solor beam for opponent
i get 5-2 at this upl，looking forward to the next encounter with entro
this is my favourite ho and get 2 win in upl，and easily get the top of the ladder，i like the build of glimm and grimm
dont easily start with glimm when the opponent dont have iron，It can give big pressure to hooh and tinglu，mirai can choose from overheat cm agility or solor beam for opponent
i get 5-2 at this upl，looking forward to the next encounter with entro
hi! first off, enjoyed being on the drizzlers this year. thank u to everyone who teamed w me and I appreciate Thor and Perry for all the hard work they put in.
also shoutout to my SV crew for all the help Lana GeniusFromHoenn, its always great to build w u two.
also shoutouts to everyone on drizzlers once more. this environment was super enjoyable especially since so many of the slots were friends of mine. you guys made this much more bareable and i'd always be down to run it back. gz to vish and hope to see yall for the next tour.
also shoutout to my SV crew for all the help Lana GeniusFromHoenn, its always great to build w u two.
w1 v Frozoid:
Just wanted to load cb korai. had av mirai as secondary ogre counterplay and treads to help vs the pivot mirai mu + support for korai mirai. fun team
w2 v JJ09LIE:
was riding the cb korai high and wanted to use it again. pretty standard HO but i tried to drop the lead slot for another breaker like lando. fun team but not as good as team 1 imo. my lines in game were not great though
w3 v RichardMillePlain:
ppl who played on ladder prolly got owned by fulltr band caly at some point. i didnt want to commit to that, but i wanted to play with tr + cc hatt + LO ogre. enjoyable to play with, and overall pleased w how i played but i misplayed end sequence around cmid groundceus
w4 v emoxu9:
wanted to go back to the cb korai wave and i think the optimal build is ogre treads mirai korai for this type of thing. flutter seemed the move if i wanted to avoid lando + fairyceus while being better into random HO / offense like emoxu brought. sitrus ogre messes with scale shot so you can trade w korai a bit safer. played well and had good mu
w5 v Trade:
was messing around w tspike absorbers and thought that LO etern seemed more potent than agil mbeam on some builds. etern luring and breaking ndm opens up cm fairy who can pressure ho oh (but etern can also kill ho oh w tera or post ho oh tera). think my play was alright but missed two dracos onto a korai which forced my tera and positioned me a bit poorly vs the cmid ndm in the back. ultimately my positioning was off but team is cool.
w6 v etern:
had the idea of sky plate ho oh + cmid fairy, sky plate breaks opposing ho oh without need of tera fly or long term positioning. tera ground plate don ohkos arc from full and drops ting from full. double removal can justify ho oh on this build too, and gira helps the random HO mu along w fairyceus. awful luck this game but regardless the team is really weird to pilot and u have to make weird clicks vs overheat mirai. its cool tho and def the most out there team i've loaded this tour.
w7 v fadedcharm: (didn't play)
had no idea what to bring, so i defaulted to my classic of cb korai offense. gambit here was a nice touch as a secondary measure vs random HO as was the fairyceus set. ek over fairy is fine you have to make awkward ass clicks sometimes vs cb/dice korai + fly zacian, even if u go rocky helm or rock tomb lando.
semis v mashing:
i schizo built a fuck ton here as i do when idk what to load. was about to load a variant of the webs skyiew loaded in tiebreak but i chickened out of cheese (and ig it wouldve gotten a good mu here). ended up settling on a standardish team with fire spin sub ho oh to break stall / gliscor balance (which i was expecting). just played this game extremely poorly, but i think this team has some issues that i didnt think on well enough.
overall ubers this tour felt kind of draining but i think it was a combination of my life being super hectic and running into hella building ruts.
Just wanted to load cb korai. had av mirai as secondary ogre counterplay and treads to help vs the pivot mirai mu + support for korai mirai. fun team
w2 v JJ09LIE:
was riding the cb korai high and wanted to use it again. pretty standard HO but i tried to drop the lead slot for another breaker like lando. fun team but not as good as team 1 imo. my lines in game were not great though
w3 v RichardMillePlain:
ppl who played on ladder prolly got owned by fulltr band caly at some point. i didnt want to commit to that, but i wanted to play with tr + cc hatt + LO ogre. enjoyable to play with, and overall pleased w how i played but i misplayed end sequence around cmid groundceus
w4 v emoxu9:
wanted to go back to the cb korai wave and i think the optimal build is ogre treads mirai korai for this type of thing. flutter seemed the move if i wanted to avoid lando + fairyceus while being better into random HO / offense like emoxu brought. sitrus ogre messes with scale shot so you can trade w korai a bit safer. played well and had good mu
w5 v Trade:
was messing around w tspike absorbers and thought that LO etern seemed more potent than agil mbeam on some builds. etern luring and breaking ndm opens up cm fairy who can pressure ho oh (but etern can also kill ho oh w tera or post ho oh tera). think my play was alright but missed two dracos onto a korai which forced my tera and positioned me a bit poorly vs the cmid ndm in the back. ultimately my positioning was off but team is cool.
w6 v etern:
had the idea of sky plate ho oh + cmid fairy, sky plate breaks opposing ho oh without need of tera fly or long term positioning. tera ground plate don ohkos arc from full and drops ting from full. double removal can justify ho oh on this build too, and gira helps the random HO mu along w fairyceus. awful luck this game but regardless the team is really weird to pilot and u have to make weird clicks vs overheat mirai. its cool tho and def the most out there team i've loaded this tour.
w7 v fadedcharm: (didn't play)
had no idea what to bring, so i defaulted to my classic of cb korai offense. gambit here was a nice touch as a secondary measure vs random HO as was the fairyceus set. ek over fairy is fine you have to make awkward ass clicks sometimes vs cb/dice korai + fly zacian, even if u go rocky helm or rock tomb lando.
semis v mashing:
i schizo built a fuck ton here as i do when idk what to load. was about to load a variant of the webs skyiew loaded in tiebreak but i chickened out of cheese (and ig it wouldve gotten a good mu here). ended up settling on a standardish team with fire spin sub ho oh to break stall / gliscor balance (which i was expecting). just played this game extremely poorly, but i think this team has some issues that i didnt think on well enough.
overall ubers this tour felt kind of draining but i think it was a combination of my life being super hectic and running into hella building ruts.
also shoutouts to everyone on drizzlers once more. this environment was super enjoyable especially since so many of the slots were friends of mine. you guys made this much more bareable and i'd always be down to run it back. gz to vish and hope to see yall for the next tour.
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https://pokepast.es/ef50dbdebd5214a1
here is my upl rby uber team
now i think chansey is too slow on now rby uber,so i use this mon very few
boom is my first choice
here is my upl rby uber team
now i think chansey is too slow on now rby uber,so i use this mon very few
boom is my first choice
Most of my teams were pretty uninspired this UPL but have a couple of new teams that I thought were pretty fresh. I made like 3 other stall teams too that I was hoping to unleash in the final if we made but alas, they were not to be...
This is the DD Tar offense that managed to score the ONLY win against robjr this tour (props to robjr!). Initially I built this because lots of people were bringing Lugia to try and counter most of my sun HO teams and I wanted to destroy those with DD Taunt Tar. Idea is to try and lure out Groudon with BU mixed Dialga and bludgeon it with Draco Meteor to pave the way for DD Tar. The main reason I led DD Tar because I don't really have a good lead otherwise (don't like using LO Ray as a lead any more because there are so many Sash Rays that you'll automatically lose to by default) and it's not bad vs Deo-S and you can even bluff a lead Tar (which ended up working in my favour in the game).
Only really showcasing this because apart from the Skarmbliss stall that I was using in Farceus this year this is my first real jump into playing stall. To be fair, this team is pretty meh - it absolutely hates the shit out of standard Spikes HOs and if susciety didn't run a bit of a fun team when their team had already secured playoffs this team would probably have struggled. Anyway, Spikes Roserade lead is a bit of a gamble - it loses to the standard Sash Deo-S but seeing as it's not super common it's ok. Double Scarf is kind of important since Roserade tends to die early so I really need the extra Scarfer and Palkia is the only one. Idea is basically set up Tspikes and try and win with SubCM Gira-A, and everything else is there to try and support that. Heatran/Lugia + sun is a pretty solid core.
I know Dave has built something pretty similar because I got shown the team after I made this one, but I this is different enough tbh
This is the DD Tar offense that managed to score the ONLY win against robjr this tour (props to robjr!). Initially I built this because lots of people were bringing Lugia to try and counter most of my sun HO teams and I wanted to destroy those with DD Taunt Tar. Idea is to try and lure out Groudon with BU mixed Dialga and bludgeon it with Draco Meteor to pave the way for DD Tar. The main reason I led DD Tar because I don't really have a good lead otherwise (don't like using LO Ray as a lead any more because there are so many Sash Rays that you'll automatically lose to by default) and it's not bad vs Deo-S and you can even bluff a lead Tar (which ended up working in my favour in the game).
Only really showcasing this because apart from the Skarmbliss stall that I was using in Farceus this year this is my first real jump into playing stall. To be fair, this team is pretty meh - it absolutely hates the shit out of standard Spikes HOs and if susciety didn't run a bit of a fun team when their team had already secured playoffs this team would probably have struggled. Anyway, Spikes Roserade lead is a bit of a gamble - it loses to the standard Sash Deo-S but seeing as it's not super common it's ok. Double Scarf is kind of important since Roserade tends to die early so I really need the extra Scarfer and Palkia is the only one. Idea is basically set up Tspikes and try and win with SubCM Gira-A, and everything else is there to try and support that. Heatran/Lugia + sun is a pretty solid core.
I know Dave has built something pretty similar because I got shown the team after I made this one, but I this is different enough tbh
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I will start this post with thanking my teammates on the Voyagers once again (individual shoutouts below). It was one of my most enjoyable team tours, you guys were active and eager to learn. Sadly we couldn’t pull out a win but the magic comeback in the semifinals will certainly be a highlight to remember.
Anyway, some people in my BW2 Ubers discord (please join btw) remarked on the lack of resources, especially noting summarizing posts after big tournaments as useful. So let’s reflect on BW2 Ubers during 2023-2024 with perspectives from the latest tournaments. Maybe this post doesn't fit in a dump thread but whatever. You can always ask me for teams on discord.
First of all, I always try to analyze the state of the tier together with Kebabe prior to tournaments. We generally don’t look too much at win/loss statistics. These statistics obscure the quality of play, direct hax and indirect hax (i.e. what people call “preparation”). We generally instead think qualitatively and anecdotally, combining old and new experiences since we have been in BW2 for over a decade. BW2 Ubers changed in subtle ways since 2013.
We clearly noticed that in the last couple of years magic sun had not only gained acceptance as a style that wins games, but it was also used quite a lot by various players. Even new players are seen to run magic sun variants which is in stark contrast to how “we remembered”. The resulting counterforce had also picked up – SR Wisp Arceus Ghost. This set ensures a comfortable fighting chance vs magic sun. We concluded that SR Arceus Ghost is a major part of the metagame. In the naivety of current gen BW2 Ubers using SR Arceus was almost seen as taboo as it was considered a “waste”. This is a largely wrong take of course, SR is insanely high value, and a 120 base speed SR with insane bulk will be the most reliable at accomplishing the task of setting them. But the implications of SR Wisp Arceus-Ghost do not end with magic sun viability (which we will get into later). In fact, wisp Ghost has the potential to ruin many hyper offensive teams on the spot (think lead+Groudon+Ekiller+Giratina-O+Genesect stuff) and even sand balance (think of the classic Ray+Ttar+Gene+Exca+Latias+Arc-Fight. Most teams comfortable vs SR wisp ArceusGhost include Sdef Kyogre and it seemed apparent that a lot of FerroCruel teams were used a lot more again.
Furthermore, Palkia had fallen off almost completely. Palkia was a very old school way of punishing fat – lots of predictions with limited longevity. Compare this to the now very standard spikes+roar Lati structure (Draco Thunder Roost Roar, you have certainly encountered this with a fat spiker like Ferrothorn and an SR Ghostceus), which operates very differently to break teams with Ferrothorn. In fact, the lack of Palkia seemed to have given rise to a lot of builds which back in the day would have been labeled Palkia weak – often stacking multiple base 90 speed mons (you have probably seen Groudon+Dialga+Giratina-O+Kyogre) together. These teams tend to be stronger vs Lati@s due to shadow sneak Giratina-O and not uncommonly scarf Kyogre, both being worse vs Palkia. Of course, we have to mention FerroCruel here again – the downtick in Palkia meant FerroCruel were more comfortable than ever.
In UWC me and Kebabe had been experimenting a lot with sash twave Ray lead teams. These teams almost always includes SR Arceus-Ghost, Gene and Specs Ogre. Often filler slots were dedicated to strong attackers like Kabutops, Groudon, Palkia and the like. Kebabe used this style for many years but often with LO Ray but with sash Ray you are provided a more safe, yet aggressive approach which would be on the front foot vs magic sun and HO. Kebabe calls the style “good stuff” so that term may be used here and there. Otherwise I would dub it “spike less offense”. This style worked very well but is sometimes inhibited by FerroCruel teams due to an inability to deal with tspikes over longer games (a lot of it due to Ray lacking the usual firepower of LO).
I personally think it is important to go into every big tournament with a idea of the metagame and a goal to push the tier further. Even if you aren’t making better teams you should try. Otherwise why would you come to a tier that is 10+ years old? Anyway, the theory was the above – metagame included a lot of FerroCruel, SR Ghost, Magic Sun. Obviously you can't discount lead either. The goal was to find new offensive and defensive techs in this metagame. Hopefully, from reading the rest of the post it becomes clear what me and Kebabe were aiming for in builder even though both of us used a variety of teams.
So what to use then?
Among the most important offensive techs in this meta was Blaziken. Lasen made a Ghost Gem Blaziken team and I don’t know if he realized how important the popularization of this set was. Fire types are the only burn immune mons in the game and Blaziken is the best of the offensive ones. However, Blaziken was in the past hampered by recoil and also weather dependency. With Ghost Gem Shadow Claw it was now possible to bypass checks such as Giratina-O, Arceus-Ghost and Latias more easily. Blaziken has extremely good offensive synergy with Groudon and Ekiller as the trio shares a bunch of checks. Groudon+Ekiller cores have been used on HO for more than 10 years but the addition of Blaziken adds that super crucial burn immunity. At the end of UPL I also discovered and used Fire Gem Blaziken. While more weather dependent again, it has an hilarious damage output vs Arceus-Ghost. Also importantly, the Shadow Claw set is walled by Gliscor and Tentacruel, both of which a Fire Gem set blazes through with ease. If players adopt both these Blaziken more, I expect a lot more uncomfortable situations to occur for those who pilot bulkier teams vs it. Another fun offense tech, which is a bit less worse overall is Salamence. Salamence has traditionally been used as a scarfer which gets the jump on the important base 99 speed Genesect. However, Salamence is really lackluster in this role due to a lack of normal resist, inability to truly punish bulky Arceus, and an SR weakness. Instead, I think DD Salamence has the larger upside. Blim used it first in this game way back but I’m unsure of what set he used. Regardless, at +1 you still get the jump on Genesect. Also, you can set up on a neutral judgment from Arceus after SR. Tspikes immunity is nothing to scoff at as in sun it has coverage that is invaluable vs FerroCruel (EQ+Fire with Lum). Kebabe tried refresh with Brick Break and Dragon Gem in one of his games. It didn’t quite work out but the advantage over Lum is to easier KO Arceus-Ghost (it had EVs to live 1 burn damage plus Judgment after SR). However, refresh+moxie are incompatible. Cloyster is another underrated sweeper option I think. It can EV out of neutral judgment ranges and use other items like Ice Gem, Lum or King’s Rock. Similarly to Blaziken, it has great synergy with Ekiller+Groudon to provide pressure on Giratina-O and Ghostceus.
Groudon must be mentioned too. It is a metagame staple with its sdef set but the Ground Gem DD set is absolutely insane and must be considered standard now. The set doesn’t set up on Wisp Arceus-Ghost but it still has an insane. The rationale for Gem is that by using it you can achieve OHKOs at +2 on Ferrothorn and 252 neutral Arceus with significantly less EV investment than other items. My spread lives 2 neutral judgments AFTER spikes+sr which is absolutely mind boggling and allows extremely easy set up on things like CM Arceus-Ghost or Steel. Even “offensive” SR sets can use the item. I hesitate to call them offensive because they EV out of Latios range. But rationale is similar – now you can OHKO 252 hp Dialga to delay SR while investing elsewhere for other important benchmarks. In 2013 living a Draco AND killing Dialga was something you just didn’t do! Due to the pace of BW2, the first hit is what truly matters so that the gem is consumed is not a big issue. Also, unlike Z-moves, Gems are not consumed on protect or immunities. For Groudon, the immunity part is crucial as you practically never risk wasting your gem (outside of vs Arceus Grass).
Let’s talk about magic sun a bit! Everyone hates facing it and some even hate using it. But everyone loses to it. The classical magic sun of Espeon Groudon Genesect Ho-oh Palkia/Lati Arceus (ekiller or ghost) had been hopeless vs SR Ghostceus for many years now. My old cloyster sun is similarly hopeless. Both structures relies heavily on CB Ho-oh checking Ghostceus. Magic Sun with CB Ho-oh+Darkrai does a better job, but these team sometimes overwhelmed by rain offense and certainly the “goodstuff” twave Rayquaza teams described above. In the last UPL, another form of magic sun started to take form. Omitting the reflex to use CB Ho-oh and instead going with the more sturdy defensive Twave Ho-oh enables new gameplans vs SR Ghostceus. By leveraging the burn immunity and the fact that still nothing wants to switch into even a defensive Ho-oh (you won’t complain much about the lesser damage output honestly) you will be able to “fight it out” vs SR Ghostceus in a 1v1 scenario. Paralyzing the opposing Arceus-Ghost creates a slew of win opportunities with your Ekiller, Groudon or even Palkia/Latias. As you have probably gauged already, a lot of modern BW2 defensive cores rely heavily on a healthy and status-free Arceus-Ghost. Everything from the Twave Rayquaza leads to the Ghost Gem Blaziken, to these Ho-oh’s are methods to create opportunities in the Arceus-Ghost metagame. Some magic suns even omit the scarf slot of Genesect to add the offensive synergy of Blaziken instead (this is in itself not new but it wasn’t done with pdef Ho-oh ever).
So far, I have mostly been focusing on physical attackers but it should be intuitive that special attackers should thrive in a wisp Ghostceus metagame. Or? Kyogre is of course Kyogre and there is no point discussing it. But the most prominent direct special attackers like Latios, Rayquaza (classical mixed LO, not taking the twave variants into account) and Dialga are not exactly loving the wisp Ghostceus metagame. Latios is obviously somewhat weak to it (it still lives judgments after 2 rounds of SR but yeah). Rayquaza can do major damage but cannot espeed it to pick off those last percents, and is chipped fast by being SR weak. Dialga resists judgments but has to be quite fortunate to break through. Ferrothorn is still extremely prominent and a great partner to wisp Ghostceus, so there will be a lot of ways to punish special threats. This segways us to Palkia... which had a huge upsurge recently. Palkia is not ghost weak and is boosted by rain to deal absurd damage to Arceus-Ghost. It is not bug weak so you aren’t immediately forced out by Genesect. It has a 120 BP fire move to threaten Ferro much more significantly with than Latios’s HP Fire. It is a truly forgotten threat that re-emerged. Palkia fell off due to being slower than Latios. It is still a valid concern but the upsides mentioned above are extremely worth it. I broke some rules and slotted in bulk on my haban Palkia in this game. The set was labeled a war crime by Lasen but suddenly I don’t die through haban to Latios. We also started experimenting with draco meteor over rend. The higher base power offsets the satk divestment, it’s a similar logic ground gem Groudon. The first hit is everything in BW2 and Palkia has dragon tail to offset the downside of being stuck at -2 to boot.
After reading all of this you probably think – some of these techs lose to tspikes. To account for this we started experimenting a lot with the move safeguard. Safeguard is not exactly a new tech but you can slot it in on a surprising amount of mons, such as my war crime Palkia, Lati, or Giratina-O. Safeguard supports Ekiller and DD Don insanely well as these have the typing or bulk to set up on Wisp Arceus-Ghost.
Ok now we have discussed offense – how about defense? Is there even such a thing now? First off, me and Kebabe theorized a push in finding mons which are physically defensive in nature, and then putting sdef evs on them. Everyone familiar with EVs and base stats know that the marginal gains for EVs investment increase for lower base stats. The most classic mon doing this is the very established sdef Groudon which is famously almost impossible OHKO.
There are more mons riding on that concept, e.g. Gliscor which feels higher in viability than ever. It has insanely good matchups vs ghost Blaze and DD Don naturally. The classic sets run a lot of speed and sub but here we tried sdef tect taunt tox eq Gliscor. Sdef Gliscor avoids a 2hko from neutral judgments and can’t be burned. It surprisingly lives a lot of random dracos (not all of them) and Darkrai attacks. It becomes an especially secure Dialga punisher. I think it is easy to see how this mon, regardless of how you use it, fits very well as a defensive centerpiece in this meta. Landorous-T is a competitive favorite for OU players around the world. In BW2 Ubers it can surprisingly live draco Latios (yes all of them from full), Ray, Dialga. It has u-turn and intimidate to boot. It can even run punishment to ensure a better match up vs CM Ghostceus. Palkia can also find a defensive niche with a rest talk sdef set. The set easily paralyzes Arceus-Ghost, outstalls sdef Kyogre, and phazes most CM Arceus. It even tanks sleep reasonably well since it lacks weaknesses to all moves Darkrai uses (even lacks a Thunder weakness compared to Kyogre crucially). It is not something you run every day but it is fun and somewhat consistent.
There are some less exiting mons on the defensive spectrum that I have to write about in context of the last year’s competitive BW2 Ubers. Heatran found a good chunk of use in this UPL. It is again, easy to see why one would use it when everyone uses wisp Ghostceus in their important games. I want to advocate some caution when using this mon – I recommend to always run the set of lava plume toxic roar and protect. Other options like SR and taunt look intriguing but are overall not effective. Especially protect is super crucial on the mon. Tentacruel is a key member of the bulkier teams. Its best set is the payapa berry magic coat set. Now you can lead against everything between Deo-S, Deo-A, Darkrai. Even Latios can't one shot you! It is just a super consistent mon.
Also, some true jank was used (mostly by Kebabe). E.g., Amoongus is honestly decent. Spore is insanely powerful and swagger+foul play (it looks like a 1300 ladder tech) is quite hard to play around as most mons with recover are special attackers. It has rocky helmet and regen to punish Giratina-O hard. Tspikes absorb is god tier. Deals well enough with some offensive mons like Ekiller. Kebabe wanted tspikes absorption and to punish dtail Gira to put it in range of Kabu. Gothitelle is also fun. It has a niche in that it can trap Kyogre or Groudon to win the weater war. It gets to trap Tentacruel too. With HP Ice you have chances of trapping Gliscor, and with HP fire you can trap Ferrothorn. Vs offense it generally can trade with Groudon, but has a harder time overall. Vs magic sun it can force a sash break on Espeon, which is great all things to considered.
Some illustrative replays of the concepts I mentioned above:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-744869?p2 sash Ray game from UWC. Here we see it baiting in what is thought to be a safe lead scarf Kyogre, paralyzing it and thanks to that winning with Arceus-Ghost.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-701352?p2 the debut in last UPL of a “new magic sun” using pdef Ho-oh with Twave and a Blaziken to synergize with Ekiller to break down checks.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-778932 a re-use of the above team with slightly more optimized sets (sub SD Ekiller to set up on Gliscor in particular).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-784187?p2 - I brought fire gem Blaziken in tiebreak. While there were some misplays on both ends, the team worked largely as intended.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-773485?p2 - Ghost gem Blaziken is shown to be quite bad vs Gliscor, a mixup with a Fire gem set results in a 6-0 MU but that set wasn’t invented at this point. Cloyster+Blaziken+Don+Ekiller aims to overload teams supported by Safeguard bulky Haban Palkia on this team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-775139?p2 Kebabe overcooked with Blaziken Mence. A generally haxy game decided on a few rest talk phazing chances and scald burns.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-779151 another slick Blaziken in action, here from Tape.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-785320 Evuelf surprisingly goes for Magic Sun in finals and uses a very modern version with defensive Ho-oh as explained above. Ground Gem Groudon is shown to be used even on an SR set with great effect.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-746632?p2 Kebabe uses a modern magic sun with pdef Ho-oh, here with Eject button, SR Ghostceus, and DD Groudon.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-776483?p2 A good representation of DD Mence and DD Don.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-782976 - Shitrock enjoyer uses a sdef Gliscor. The game goes awry pretty fast due to inexperience in the tier (who wants to play Blim of all people in their 4th tour game) but the team composition is cool to provide a more sturdy Dialga killer for FerroCruel teams.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-747371 the infamous sdef SD acro fling Gliscor single handedly carries Kebabe back in the game after early game hax.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-743032?p2 showcase of sdef Lando-T having the capability to sponge multiple unboosted neutral judgments.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2156913726 Shitrock Enjoyer uses the rest talk Palkia. It could have probably been used more aggressively to para things with the surprise factor early game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-780826 an insanity occurrence where both top players Tape and Kebabe runs Heatran.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-773477 the infamous Goth Heatran trick Lugia stall.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-776418?p2 a showcase of Amoongus.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-749702 Gothitelle can trap Groudon and therefore enable an easy win for Kabutops vs any sun team.
I'm not posting every set I talked about, just the less obvious ones (OK I guess not with Blaziken).
Now shoutouts.
Anyway, some people in my BW2 Ubers discord (please join btw) remarked on the lack of resources, especially noting summarizing posts after big tournaments as useful. So let’s reflect on BW2 Ubers during 2023-2024 with perspectives from the latest tournaments. Maybe this post doesn't fit in a dump thread but whatever. You can always ask me for teams on discord.
First of all, I always try to analyze the state of the tier together with Kebabe prior to tournaments. We generally don’t look too much at win/loss statistics. These statistics obscure the quality of play, direct hax and indirect hax (i.e. what people call “preparation”). We generally instead think qualitatively and anecdotally, combining old and new experiences since we have been in BW2 for over a decade. BW2 Ubers changed in subtle ways since 2013.
We clearly noticed that in the last couple of years magic sun had not only gained acceptance as a style that wins games, but it was also used quite a lot by various players. Even new players are seen to run magic sun variants which is in stark contrast to how “we remembered”. The resulting counterforce had also picked up – SR Wisp Arceus Ghost. This set ensures a comfortable fighting chance vs magic sun. We concluded that SR Arceus Ghost is a major part of the metagame. In the naivety of current gen BW2 Ubers using SR Arceus was almost seen as taboo as it was considered a “waste”. This is a largely wrong take of course, SR is insanely high value, and a 120 base speed SR with insane bulk will be the most reliable at accomplishing the task of setting them. But the implications of SR Wisp Arceus-Ghost do not end with magic sun viability (which we will get into later). In fact, wisp Ghost has the potential to ruin many hyper offensive teams on the spot (think lead+Groudon+Ekiller+Giratina-O+Genesect stuff) and even sand balance (think of the classic Ray+Ttar+Gene+Exca+Latias+Arc-Fight. Most teams comfortable vs SR wisp ArceusGhost include Sdef Kyogre and it seemed apparent that a lot of FerroCruel teams were used a lot more again.
Furthermore, Palkia had fallen off almost completely. Palkia was a very old school way of punishing fat – lots of predictions with limited longevity. Compare this to the now very standard spikes+roar Lati structure (Draco Thunder Roost Roar, you have certainly encountered this with a fat spiker like Ferrothorn and an SR Ghostceus), which operates very differently to break teams with Ferrothorn. In fact, the lack of Palkia seemed to have given rise to a lot of builds which back in the day would have been labeled Palkia weak – often stacking multiple base 90 speed mons (you have probably seen Groudon+Dialga+Giratina-O+Kyogre) together. These teams tend to be stronger vs Lati@s due to shadow sneak Giratina-O and not uncommonly scarf Kyogre, both being worse vs Palkia. Of course, we have to mention FerroCruel here again – the downtick in Palkia meant FerroCruel were more comfortable than ever.
In UWC me and Kebabe had been experimenting a lot with sash twave Ray lead teams. These teams almost always includes SR Arceus-Ghost, Gene and Specs Ogre. Often filler slots were dedicated to strong attackers like Kabutops, Groudon, Palkia and the like. Kebabe used this style for many years but often with LO Ray but with sash Ray you are provided a more safe, yet aggressive approach which would be on the front foot vs magic sun and HO. Kebabe calls the style “good stuff” so that term may be used here and there. Otherwise I would dub it “spike less offense”. This style worked very well but is sometimes inhibited by FerroCruel teams due to an inability to deal with tspikes over longer games (a lot of it due to Ray lacking the usual firepower of LO).
I personally think it is important to go into every big tournament with a idea of the metagame and a goal to push the tier further. Even if you aren’t making better teams you should try. Otherwise why would you come to a tier that is 10+ years old? Anyway, the theory was the above – metagame included a lot of FerroCruel, SR Ghost, Magic Sun. Obviously you can't discount lead either. The goal was to find new offensive and defensive techs in this metagame. Hopefully, from reading the rest of the post it becomes clear what me and Kebabe were aiming for in builder even though both of us used a variety of teams.
So what to use then?
Among the most important offensive techs in this meta was Blaziken. Lasen made a Ghost Gem Blaziken team and I don’t know if he realized how important the popularization of this set was. Fire types are the only burn immune mons in the game and Blaziken is the best of the offensive ones. However, Blaziken was in the past hampered by recoil and also weather dependency. With Ghost Gem Shadow Claw it was now possible to bypass checks such as Giratina-O, Arceus-Ghost and Latias more easily. Blaziken has extremely good offensive synergy with Groudon and Ekiller as the trio shares a bunch of checks. Groudon+Ekiller cores have been used on HO for more than 10 years but the addition of Blaziken adds that super crucial burn immunity. At the end of UPL I also discovered and used Fire Gem Blaziken. While more weather dependent again, it has an hilarious damage output vs Arceus-Ghost. Also importantly, the Shadow Claw set is walled by Gliscor and Tentacruel, both of which a Fire Gem set blazes through with ease. If players adopt both these Blaziken more, I expect a lot more uncomfortable situations to occur for those who pilot bulkier teams vs it. Another fun offense tech, which is a bit less worse overall is Salamence. Salamence has traditionally been used as a scarfer which gets the jump on the important base 99 speed Genesect. However, Salamence is really lackluster in this role due to a lack of normal resist, inability to truly punish bulky Arceus, and an SR weakness. Instead, I think DD Salamence has the larger upside. Blim used it first in this game way back but I’m unsure of what set he used. Regardless, at +1 you still get the jump on Genesect. Also, you can set up on a neutral judgment from Arceus after SR. Tspikes immunity is nothing to scoff at as in sun it has coverage that is invaluable vs FerroCruel (EQ+Fire with Lum). Kebabe tried refresh with Brick Break and Dragon Gem in one of his games. It didn’t quite work out but the advantage over Lum is to easier KO Arceus-Ghost (it had EVs to live 1 burn damage plus Judgment after SR). However, refresh+moxie are incompatible. Cloyster is another underrated sweeper option I think. It can EV out of neutral judgment ranges and use other items like Ice Gem, Lum or King’s Rock. Similarly to Blaziken, it has great synergy with Ekiller+Groudon to provide pressure on Giratina-O and Ghostceus.
Groudon must be mentioned too. It is a metagame staple with its sdef set but the Ground Gem DD set is absolutely insane and must be considered standard now. The set doesn’t set up on Wisp Arceus-Ghost but it still has an insane. The rationale for Gem is that by using it you can achieve OHKOs at +2 on Ferrothorn and 252 neutral Arceus with significantly less EV investment than other items. My spread lives 2 neutral judgments AFTER spikes+sr which is absolutely mind boggling and allows extremely easy set up on things like CM Arceus-Ghost or Steel. Even “offensive” SR sets can use the item. I hesitate to call them offensive because they EV out of Latios range. But rationale is similar – now you can OHKO 252 hp Dialga to delay SR while investing elsewhere for other important benchmarks. In 2013 living a Draco AND killing Dialga was something you just didn’t do! Due to the pace of BW2, the first hit is what truly matters so that the gem is consumed is not a big issue. Also, unlike Z-moves, Gems are not consumed on protect or immunities. For Groudon, the immunity part is crucial as you practically never risk wasting your gem (outside of vs Arceus Grass).
Let’s talk about magic sun a bit! Everyone hates facing it and some even hate using it. But everyone loses to it. The classical magic sun of Espeon Groudon Genesect Ho-oh Palkia/Lati Arceus (ekiller or ghost) had been hopeless vs SR Ghostceus for many years now. My old cloyster sun is similarly hopeless. Both structures relies heavily on CB Ho-oh checking Ghostceus. Magic Sun with CB Ho-oh+Darkrai does a better job, but these team sometimes overwhelmed by rain offense and certainly the “goodstuff” twave Rayquaza teams described above. In the last UPL, another form of magic sun started to take form. Omitting the reflex to use CB Ho-oh and instead going with the more sturdy defensive Twave Ho-oh enables new gameplans vs SR Ghostceus. By leveraging the burn immunity and the fact that still nothing wants to switch into even a defensive Ho-oh (you won’t complain much about the lesser damage output honestly) you will be able to “fight it out” vs SR Ghostceus in a 1v1 scenario. Paralyzing the opposing Arceus-Ghost creates a slew of win opportunities with your Ekiller, Groudon or even Palkia/Latias. As you have probably gauged already, a lot of modern BW2 defensive cores rely heavily on a healthy and status-free Arceus-Ghost. Everything from the Twave Rayquaza leads to the Ghost Gem Blaziken, to these Ho-oh’s are methods to create opportunities in the Arceus-Ghost metagame. Some magic suns even omit the scarf slot of Genesect to add the offensive synergy of Blaziken instead (this is in itself not new but it wasn’t done with pdef Ho-oh ever).
So far, I have mostly been focusing on physical attackers but it should be intuitive that special attackers should thrive in a wisp Ghostceus metagame. Or? Kyogre is of course Kyogre and there is no point discussing it. But the most prominent direct special attackers like Latios, Rayquaza (classical mixed LO, not taking the twave variants into account) and Dialga are not exactly loving the wisp Ghostceus metagame. Latios is obviously somewhat weak to it (it still lives judgments after 2 rounds of SR but yeah). Rayquaza can do major damage but cannot espeed it to pick off those last percents, and is chipped fast by being SR weak. Dialga resists judgments but has to be quite fortunate to break through. Ferrothorn is still extremely prominent and a great partner to wisp Ghostceus, so there will be a lot of ways to punish special threats. This segways us to Palkia... which had a huge upsurge recently. Palkia is not ghost weak and is boosted by rain to deal absurd damage to Arceus-Ghost. It is not bug weak so you aren’t immediately forced out by Genesect. It has a 120 BP fire move to threaten Ferro much more significantly with than Latios’s HP Fire. It is a truly forgotten threat that re-emerged. Palkia fell off due to being slower than Latios. It is still a valid concern but the upsides mentioned above are extremely worth it. I broke some rules and slotted in bulk on my haban Palkia in this game. The set was labeled a war crime by Lasen but suddenly I don’t die through haban to Latios. We also started experimenting with draco meteor over rend. The higher base power offsets the satk divestment, it’s a similar logic ground gem Groudon. The first hit is everything in BW2 and Palkia has dragon tail to offset the downside of being stuck at -2 to boot.
After reading all of this you probably think – some of these techs lose to tspikes. To account for this we started experimenting a lot with the move safeguard. Safeguard is not exactly a new tech but you can slot it in on a surprising amount of mons, such as my war crime Palkia, Lati, or Giratina-O. Safeguard supports Ekiller and DD Don insanely well as these have the typing or bulk to set up on Wisp Arceus-Ghost.
Ok now we have discussed offense – how about defense? Is there even such a thing now? First off, me and Kebabe theorized a push in finding mons which are physically defensive in nature, and then putting sdef evs on them. Everyone familiar with EVs and base stats know that the marginal gains for EVs investment increase for lower base stats. The most classic mon doing this is the very established sdef Groudon which is famously almost impossible OHKO.
There are more mons riding on that concept, e.g. Gliscor which feels higher in viability than ever. It has insanely good matchups vs ghost Blaze and DD Don naturally. The classic sets run a lot of speed and sub but here we tried sdef tect taunt tox eq Gliscor. Sdef Gliscor avoids a 2hko from neutral judgments and can’t be burned. It surprisingly lives a lot of random dracos (not all of them) and Darkrai attacks. It becomes an especially secure Dialga punisher. I think it is easy to see how this mon, regardless of how you use it, fits very well as a defensive centerpiece in this meta. Landorous-T is a competitive favorite for OU players around the world. In BW2 Ubers it can surprisingly live draco Latios (yes all of them from full), Ray, Dialga. It has u-turn and intimidate to boot. It can even run punishment to ensure a better match up vs CM Ghostceus. Palkia can also find a defensive niche with a rest talk sdef set. The set easily paralyzes Arceus-Ghost, outstalls sdef Kyogre, and phazes most CM Arceus. It even tanks sleep reasonably well since it lacks weaknesses to all moves Darkrai uses (even lacks a Thunder weakness compared to Kyogre crucially). It is not something you run every day but it is fun and somewhat consistent.
There are some less exiting mons on the defensive spectrum that I have to write about in context of the last year’s competitive BW2 Ubers. Heatran found a good chunk of use in this UPL. It is again, easy to see why one would use it when everyone uses wisp Ghostceus in their important games. I want to advocate some caution when using this mon – I recommend to always run the set of lava plume toxic roar and protect. Other options like SR and taunt look intriguing but are overall not effective. Especially protect is super crucial on the mon. Tentacruel is a key member of the bulkier teams. Its best set is the payapa berry magic coat set. Now you can lead against everything between Deo-S, Deo-A, Darkrai. Even Latios can't one shot you! It is just a super consistent mon.
Also, some true jank was used (mostly by Kebabe). E.g., Amoongus is honestly decent. Spore is insanely powerful and swagger+foul play (it looks like a 1300 ladder tech) is quite hard to play around as most mons with recover are special attackers. It has rocky helmet and regen to punish Giratina-O hard. Tspikes absorb is god tier. Deals well enough with some offensive mons like Ekiller. Kebabe wanted tspikes absorption and to punish dtail Gira to put it in range of Kabu. Gothitelle is also fun. It has a niche in that it can trap Kyogre or Groudon to win the weater war. It gets to trap Tentacruel too. With HP Ice you have chances of trapping Gliscor, and with HP fire you can trap Ferrothorn. Vs offense it generally can trade with Groudon, but has a harder time overall. Vs magic sun it can force a sash break on Espeon, which is great all things to considered.
Some illustrative replays of the concepts I mentioned above:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-744869?p2 sash Ray game from UWC. Here we see it baiting in what is thought to be a safe lead scarf Kyogre, paralyzing it and thanks to that winning with Arceus-Ghost.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-701352?p2 the debut in last UPL of a “new magic sun” using pdef Ho-oh with Twave and a Blaziken to synergize with Ekiller to break down checks.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-778932 a re-use of the above team with slightly more optimized sets (sub SD Ekiller to set up on Gliscor in particular).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-784187?p2 - I brought fire gem Blaziken in tiebreak. While there were some misplays on both ends, the team worked largely as intended.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-773485?p2 - Ghost gem Blaziken is shown to be quite bad vs Gliscor, a mixup with a Fire gem set results in a 6-0 MU but that set wasn’t invented at this point. Cloyster+Blaziken+Don+Ekiller aims to overload teams supported by Safeguard bulky Haban Palkia on this team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-775139?p2 Kebabe overcooked with Blaziken Mence. A generally haxy game decided on a few rest talk phazing chances and scald burns.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-779151 another slick Blaziken in action, here from Tape.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-785320 Evuelf surprisingly goes for Magic Sun in finals and uses a very modern version with defensive Ho-oh as explained above. Ground Gem Groudon is shown to be used even on an SR set with great effect.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-746632?p2 Kebabe uses a modern magic sun with pdef Ho-oh, here with Eject button, SR Ghostceus, and DD Groudon.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-776483?p2 A good representation of DD Mence and DD Don.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-782976 - Shitrock enjoyer uses a sdef Gliscor. The game goes awry pretty fast due to inexperience in the tier (who wants to play Blim of all people in their 4th tour game) but the team composition is cool to provide a more sturdy Dialga killer for FerroCruel teams.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-747371 the infamous sdef SD acro fling Gliscor single handedly carries Kebabe back in the game after early game hax.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-743032?p2 showcase of sdef Lando-T having the capability to sponge multiple unboosted neutral judgments.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2156913726 Shitrock Enjoyer uses the rest talk Palkia. It could have probably been used more aggressively to para things with the surprise factor early game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-780826 an insanity occurrence where both top players Tape and Kebabe runs Heatran.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-773477 the infamous Goth Heatran trick Lugia stall.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-776418?p2 a showcase of Amoongus.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ubers-749702 Gothitelle can trap Groudon and therefore enable an easy win for Kabutops vs any sun team.
I'm not posting every set I talked about, just the less obvious ones (OK I guess not with Blaziken).
Blaziken @ Fire Gem/Ghost Gem
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Flare Blitz
- Low Kick
- Swords Dance
Blaziken importantly lives neutral judgments allowing set ups in a pinch even on Arceus-Ghost if needed. Fire Gem Blitz OHKOs Arceus-Ghost in sun after SR, guaranteed. You have to greed out with Adamant, but this is totally worth it for the damage (and Mewtwo being so rare anyway). I would run more bulk but you kind of have to outrun Darkrai at +1 so there isn't much room.
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Flare Blitz
- Low Kick
- Swords Dance
Blaziken importantly lives neutral judgments allowing set ups in a pinch even on Arceus-Ghost if needed. Fire Gem Blitz OHKOs Arceus-Ghost in sun after SR, guaranteed. You have to greed out with Adamant, but this is totally worth it for the damage (and Mewtwo being so rare anyway). I would run more bulk but you kind of have to outrun Darkrai at +1 so there isn't much room.
Salamence @ Lum Berry/Dragon Gem
Ability: Moxie/Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Fang/Brick Break
- Outrage
- Earthquake/Refresh
Standard stuff. You have to adjust to live burn damage+neutral judgment (after SR) if you run the refresh set. Absolute FerroCruel killer in sun.
Ability: Moxie/Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Fang/Brick Break
- Outrage
- Earthquake/Refresh
Standard stuff. You have to adjust to live burn damage+neutral judgment (after SR) if you run the refresh set. Absolute FerroCruel killer in sun.
Groudon @ Ground Gem
Ability: Drought
EVs: 88 HP / 44 Atk / 252 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw/Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
You can run more speed if you want. E.g. 176 for Kabutops in rain. 44 atk OHKOs Ferro/Arceus at +2. Lives 2 judgments after SR+spikes, lives draco Latios after SR. You have to double check those calcs.
Ability: Drought
EVs: 88 HP / 44 Atk / 252 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw/Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
You can run more speed if you want. E.g. 176 for Kabutops in rain. 44 atk OHKOs Ferro/Arceus at +2. Lives 2 judgments after SR+spikes, lives draco Latios after SR. You have to double check those calcs.
Palkia @ Haban Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 80 HP / 4 SpA / 172 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Safeguard/Stone Edge
- Dragon Tail
This set is for sun offense. Haban Palkia was always disapointing to me. But this one lives Draco from Latios after. Your own draco should save you damage output somewhat the first hit. Stone Edge if you use it on Ho-oh weak teams ofc.
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 80 HP / 4 SpA / 172 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Safeguard/Stone Edge
- Dragon Tail
This set is for sun offense. Haban Palkia was always disapointing to me. But this one lives Draco from Latios after. Your own draco should save you damage output somewhat the first hit. Stone Edge if you use it on Ho-oh weak teams ofc.
Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 92 SpA / 84 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Psyshock
- Grass Knot
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
This set is the Don trapper. The defense enables surviving 252+ Ada Ground Gem Don as well as 2 EQs from uninvested Don.
Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 156 SpA / 28 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Trick
- Psyshock
This set is the rain killer. HP Ice to eliminate Gliscor, but you can HP Fighting or Fire if you want. The idea is to pair with Groudon (eject button if you want to be extreme and trap choiced Kyogre).
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 92 SpA / 84 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Psyshock
- Grass Knot
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
This set is the Don trapper. The defense enables surviving 252+ Ada Ground Gem Don as well as 2 EQs from uninvested Don.
Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 156 SpA / 28 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Trick
- Psyshock
This set is the rain killer. HP Ice to eliminate Gliscor, but you can HP Fighting or Fire if you want. The idea is to pair with Groudon (eject button if you want to be extreme and trap choiced Kyogre).
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 192 SpD / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Taunt/U-turn
- Toxic/Stealth Rock
I prefer using the speed benchmark for jolly max Ttar. This makes than some Tentacruel. You should calc Latios carefully when using this, every percentage and EV helps.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 148 HP / 252 SpD / 108 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Punishment
- U-turn
For Lando I prefer this spread but you are tight on EVs for the dracos so you might wanna secure it. But outrunning Tentacruel is probably even more important to Lando than it is to Gliscor...
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 192 SpD / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Taunt/U-turn
- Toxic/Stealth Rock
I prefer using the speed benchmark for jolly max Ttar. This makes than some Tentacruel. You should calc Latios carefully when using this, every percentage and EV helps.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 148 HP / 252 SpD / 108 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Punishment
- U-turn
For Lando I prefer this spread but you are tight on EVs for the dracos so you might wanna secure it. But outrunning Tentacruel is probably even more important to Lando than it is to Gliscor...
Now shoutouts.
Kate - Going into the tour I had full faith in our SV because I saw you play very well in UWC - and I rarely have faith in new gens. Due to your investment I could focus on preparing the guys in my strong gens. I know you are disappointed in your record and whatnot but these things happen to all of us. You pulled your weight in gold and you were a great presence.
byulharang - I think did very well in keeping the group together. You had a good plan for the draft but even moreso you were able to solve situations with the lineup on the spot. I think that's a huge credit. I would recommend any player to be on your teams in the future.
BigFatMantis - I think when it mattered to most you were by far our best player. The tiebreak match is a classic that I am glad I lost some hours of sleep for. My pleasure teaming with you.
Mashing - I think you were one of the most active players on the team and it was great ballplankning ideas with you for Rob. DPP was a tier I was throughly fed up with so I am glad you could support so much there. I think with had an excellent collaboration as you could often make my abstract ideas more concrete. Your own performance was also very solid, would definitely team again if I played more team tours in the future.
pdt we didn't interact much but you had a strong record and I was never too worried about you going into games. You are an overall fun guy as well. All the best.
iry LOL we know each other too well to do shoutouts. You are the jerkiest of my jerky mates on this site. I love it. Pkmn wise who gives shit but you still pulled your weight. Love the 500 pms I get each game our team plays (and you know I send 500 back). Your indecisiveness in selecting teams is magnificent entertainment too.
Unowndragon - It felt you won all the time and you were super funny. We didn't interact too much but I genuinely loved watching your games.
Shitrock enjoyer - My child. Imagine if someone in 2013 had told me people would still be interested in learning BW2 Ubers in 2024. It made my tour so much better and while I know you want more than a 2-2 record I was genuienly impressed in how you approached learning the tier from the first second. All the best man, we'll stay in touch.
lotiasite - We didn't interact too much but the win in semis is already a classic in my book. You are an excellent SS player and I am glad I didn't have to worry or pull my hair over a tier I don't know much. Take care, all the best!
Tenebricite - Tough run in USM but no one can fault your investment. All the best from me, I certainly hope you had a good experience even though me and Iry can be a bit jerky at times. All the best.
elodin - Wow a super OG. We know each other from back in the day and I of course know you are super skilled and all of that. Nice to have someone around from back in the day. I know the record isn't what you wanted but we both been around for so long we know these things happen. Take care man!
temp I think we may have pushed SkarmBliss a bit too much down your throat but I think a 3-2 record was very nice all things considered. Good job. And of course you were super helpful and nice to others, would always recommend teaming with you to anyone.
robjr Holy shit you stole my MVP status in finals. No harm though, I was just so genuniely impressed with how you improved week from week. The win vs London (who I consider the best player in the pool) is a classic. Loved working with you, you had a good ideas but also responsive to critisism (not that there was much, you handled your games so well).
FadedCharm - You were the nicest guy and helped us out so much. For your own games don't sweat it, it happens. I wish you all good luck in the future.
Stories - We didn't interact too much but you were a super nice presence around in chat and helped a lot.
Ky - Same as for Stories really, I enjoyed having you around, you made the team chat more lively and that counts for a lot in my book.
Lasen I'm not gonna talk about mons lol, who cares. You should know you, along with a few other people are the reason I still do tours. And I don't think I can give you more praise than that. Let's troll Reje in ORASPL now.
And some non voyagers deserve mentions
Kebabe - Enough said
Evuelf - Best BW Ubers player at the moment? Probably, you had a great tour and your team won. Smart move in finals to go Magic Sun and thoroughly outplaying me too. But aside from that I don't think anyone has overall helped me so much in mons as you have. When I came back to mons in 2023 and I looked around for my old jerk who was there first? Can't thank you enough, I wouldn't have been performing as well as I have for all these years without your constant testing and discussion.
March Fires - Thank god you are also still around. You are a bit like Evuelf to me except you run more HEAT STUFF. I'll never forget all those years ago during the summers when I stayed up until 4 am to play shitloads of tests vs you. Love having you as a friend and competitor, it just makes the game so much more worth it.
Reje - Ever since we started teaming together there hasn't been a single teammate who I just clicked with so well in terms of mons. And outside mons you are a great guy too. Idk what to say that hasn't been said about Lasen or Iry really, but you belong in a special bracket of people for me in this site. Fuck you and hope you lose all ORASPL games.
Hoopas Dad - your namechange is the worst. Mysterious M is so fucking good. I had so much faith last year when we teamednd you went like 0-4. I knew whoever picked you up would be rewarded and I was right. Seriously strong showing and you gave me a run for my money in both games we played. Wishing all the best.
keys you seem to upset a lot of people in chat LOL, but whatever. I enjoy talking mons with you and other things of course. I think you had a super soldi tour and you know what game I like the most that you played.
Waruchuu gonna shoutout you as well. I think the investment you put in to create content and engagement for Ubers is super swell. Hope you stick around with your interest in the various Ubers tiers as well! Cheers
byulharang - I think did very well in keeping the group together. You had a good plan for the draft but even moreso you were able to solve situations with the lineup on the spot. I think that's a huge credit. I would recommend any player to be on your teams in the future.
BigFatMantis - I think when it mattered to most you were by far our best player. The tiebreak match is a classic that I am glad I lost some hours of sleep for. My pleasure teaming with you.
Mashing - I think you were one of the most active players on the team and it was great ballplankning ideas with you for Rob. DPP was a tier I was throughly fed up with so I am glad you could support so much there. I think with had an excellent collaboration as you could often make my abstract ideas more concrete. Your own performance was also very solid, would definitely team again if I played more team tours in the future.
pdt we didn't interact much but you had a strong record and I was never too worried about you going into games. You are an overall fun guy as well. All the best.
iry LOL we know each other too well to do shoutouts. You are the jerkiest of my jerky mates on this site. I love it. Pkmn wise who gives shit but you still pulled your weight. Love the 500 pms I get each game our team plays (and you know I send 500 back). Your indecisiveness in selecting teams is magnificent entertainment too.
Unowndragon - It felt you won all the time and you were super funny. We didn't interact too much but I genuinely loved watching your games.
Shitrock enjoyer - My child. Imagine if someone in 2013 had told me people would still be interested in learning BW2 Ubers in 2024. It made my tour so much better and while I know you want more than a 2-2 record I was genuienly impressed in how you approached learning the tier from the first second. All the best man, we'll stay in touch.
lotiasite - We didn't interact too much but the win in semis is already a classic in my book. You are an excellent SS player and I am glad I didn't have to worry or pull my hair over a tier I don't know much. Take care, all the best!
Tenebricite - Tough run in USM but no one can fault your investment. All the best from me, I certainly hope you had a good experience even though me and Iry can be a bit jerky at times. All the best.
elodin - Wow a super OG. We know each other from back in the day and I of course know you are super skilled and all of that. Nice to have someone around from back in the day. I know the record isn't what you wanted but we both been around for so long we know these things happen. Take care man!
temp I think we may have pushed SkarmBliss a bit too much down your throat but I think a 3-2 record was very nice all things considered. Good job. And of course you were super helpful and nice to others, would always recommend teaming with you to anyone.
robjr Holy shit you stole my MVP status in finals. No harm though, I was just so genuniely impressed with how you improved week from week. The win vs London (who I consider the best player in the pool) is a classic. Loved working with you, you had a good ideas but also responsive to critisism (not that there was much, you handled your games so well).
FadedCharm - You were the nicest guy and helped us out so much. For your own games don't sweat it, it happens. I wish you all good luck in the future.
Stories - We didn't interact too much but you were a super nice presence around in chat and helped a lot.
Ky - Same as for Stories really, I enjoyed having you around, you made the team chat more lively and that counts for a lot in my book.
Lasen I'm not gonna talk about mons lol, who cares. You should know you, along with a few other people are the reason I still do tours. And I don't think I can give you more praise than that. Let's troll Reje in ORASPL now.
And some non voyagers deserve mentions
Kebabe - Enough said
Evuelf - Best BW Ubers player at the moment? Probably, you had a great tour and your team won. Smart move in finals to go Magic Sun and thoroughly outplaying me too. But aside from that I don't think anyone has overall helped me so much in mons as you have. When I came back to mons in 2023 and I looked around for my old jerk who was there first? Can't thank you enough, I wouldn't have been performing as well as I have for all these years without your constant testing and discussion.
March Fires - Thank god you are also still around. You are a bit like Evuelf to me except you run more HEAT STUFF. I'll never forget all those years ago during the summers when I stayed up until 4 am to play shitloads of tests vs you. Love having you as a friend and competitor, it just makes the game so much more worth it.
Reje - Ever since we started teaming together there hasn't been a single teammate who I just clicked with so well in terms of mons. And outside mons you are a great guy too. Idk what to say that hasn't been said about Lasen or Iry really, but you belong in a special bracket of people for me in this site. Fuck you and hope you lose all ORASPL games.
Hoopas Dad - your namechange is the worst. Mysterious M is so fucking good. I had so much faith last year when we teamednd you went like 0-4. I knew whoever picked you up would be rewarded and I was right. Seriously strong showing and you gave me a run for my money in both games we played. Wishing all the best.
keys you seem to upset a lot of people in chat LOL, but whatever. I enjoy talking mons with you and other things of course. I think you had a super soldi tour and you know what game I like the most that you played.
Waruchuu gonna shoutout you as well. I think the investment you put in to create content and engagement for Ubers is super swell. Hope you stick around with your interest in the various Ubers tiers as well! Cheers
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