5th gen hail stall

Well, after creating two successful teams on PO which got me to the teen ranks in the Dream World tier, I wanted to challenge myself and make a hail stall team. After lots of trial and error, this team is sitting at rank 34 on the Smogon server Dream World tier as I type this, which I'm pretty proud of. Hail, although it is my favorite weather condition, is probably the least useful weather condition to base your team around this generation, as you get no real boost to defense, offense, or anything like that. The advantages however are that less pokemon are immune to it, making it easier to stall and wear down teams, and Blizzard's accuracy increases to 100% as well of course. Anyway, without further ado, lets get started.


abomasnow.png


Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
Hasty Nature
Ability: Snow Warning
16 Atk / 252 SAtk / 240 Spd

~Earthquake
~Giga Drain
~Blizzard
~Hidden Power Fire

Choice Scarfer #1. Although I usually don't lead with Abomasnow unless its against something like Politoed or Swampert leads, he usually comes in once something on the team dies just to get Hail going and to revenge kill. EQ is there for fire types like Heatran, Ninetales, Infernape, and Chandelure without a scarf. STAB Blizzard wrecks prominent threats to my team such as Gliscor, Landorus, Zapdos, Thundurus, Garchomp, etc. I chose Giga Drain over Wood Hammer for the sole purpose of surviving longer. Not to mention, I can invest more in Special attack to power up my main STAB move, Blizzard. HP Fire is there to hit Ferrothorn, Scizor that may try to set up/U-turn on me, etc.





forretress.png



Forretress @ Leftovers
Impish Nature
Ability: Overcoat
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

~Gyro Ball
~Toxic Spikes
~Spikes
~Rapid Spin

Forretress gaining Overcoat was a very nice addition to Hail teams, as Rapid Spin and entry hazard support is an absolute must for them IMO. I chose to go all out on physical defense as opposed to special defense, as it seems almost all special attackers carry HP fire nowadays. With max defense, I can switch in on things like Scarfed Terrakion, Mamoswine, Garchomp, etc, set up a layer of spikes of my choice, and then get the hell out of dodge. Although I abandoned my old Wish passer (Vaporeon) for better resistances on this team, Forry can still last long enough to set up 2-4 layers of Spikes/Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin entry hazards away before biting the dust, which is really all I ask for.





rotomfridge.png


Rotom-F @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature
Ability: Levitate
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

~Blizzard
~Thunderbolt
~Volt Switch
~Trick

Rotom-F is amazing. With its new unique typing of Ice/Electric, not only does it cancel out its Ice type weakness to Scizor's Bullet Punch, but it now gains STAB on Blizzard and immunity to Hail, making it a powerful revenge killer for this team. If I see no Ground types or if I see a Chandelure on the opponent's team, this is what I'll usually lead with, just to hit something with a Volt Switch to get some damage and scout on what the opponent wants to do early on. Having both this and Abomasnow scarfed is a huge benefit to this team, as once the opponent's Pokemon are weakened from Toxic, Burn, and Hail, Abomasnow and Rotom can come in and usually sweep a weakened team with just Blizzard. Having two scarfers is also important because this team as a whole isn't the fastest, and this Rotom checks a lot of dangerous threats such as Dragon Dance Dragonite, Sword Dance Salamence, Dragon Dance Gyarados, etc.





heatran.png


Heatran @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
Ability: Flash Fire
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef

~Lava Plume
~Toxic
~Stealth Rock
~Roar

A fire resistance for this team at its best. Bulky Heatran is pretty much my only check to things that would otherwise cause huge problems to this team, like Scarfed Genesect, Scarfed Chandelure, Jirachi, and all forms of Latios/Latias. Lava Plume is obligatory. Toxic, Roar and Stealth Rock are all there to stall, phaze, and rack up entry hazard damage. As long as this Heatran gets up rocks, wears down strong special attackers or burns/toxics something, then he's done his job.





latias.png


Latias @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Ability: Levitate
252 HP / 232 Def / 4 SAtk / 20 SDef

~Recover
~Toxic
~Surf
~Psychic

Latias and Heatran form an amazing defensive combo, covering each other's weaknesses perfectly. Vaporeon was originally here, but after succumbing to strong fighting and ground type attacks, I figured Latias would be a better choice, even with the lack of Wish passing. Recover and Toxic are pretty self explanatory and are there for stalling, and without Psychic, Conkeldurr would destroy everything on this team. Surf is there to hit the threatening fire and rock types hard, as well as giving me an attack that hits neutral on steel and dark types. The EV's listed even out Latias' defenses at 301 each, letting me take physical fire and fighting attacks more easily, as well as things like Thunders and Focus Blasts on the special side. The physical defense investment prevents me from being OHKO'd by Pursuiters as well.





593.png


Jellicent @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Ability: Water Absorb
248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd

~Recover
~Will-O-Wisp
~Taunt
~Scald/Night Shade

One of the few ghost types with reliable recovery, Jellicent is probably the best spin blocker in the game, and offers me another great fire, steel and fighting resistance for this team. The set is pretty self-explanatory, but Night Shade might be a better option over Scald to slowly take out Reuniclus, who is a big threat to this team that lacks strong physical attacks and depends on status ailments, weather, and entry hazard damage to take out foes.





Prominent (but beatable) Threats:

Reuniclus, Conkeldurr, Tyranitar, Volcarona

Reuniclus gives me the most trouble, as outside of Taunting and stalling it out with Jellicent, slowly wearing it down the entire match, or Tricking it a Scarf with Rotom-F, I can't do much to it. Blizzard still does a nice chunk even after it has a Calm Mind boost though.

Conkeldurr is another big threat, as it normally runs Guts and can hit everything on my team sans Forry for SE damage. Usually though, I can play around it with Latios' Psychic and entry hazard damage.

Well, there it is guys. It has a few flaws, but it's still a nice team in a sea full of rain, sand and sun.
 
Nice team, but Calm Mind Reuniclus absolutely eats you alive - you can't damage it at all, just phaze it, and once it's the last Pokemon you'll lose, plain and simple. You can possibly Trick it with Rotom, but the chances of him being alive at the end of the match are extremely slim due to Chandelure and Tyranitar being around to trap it. I recommend changing Latias to a CM shuffle set. This way, you can switch in and boost alongside Reuniclus the first time it switches in. You'll both get to +6 then you pull off a surprise roar and sweep with a fully boosted Latias.
Latias @ Leftovers | Timid | 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Calm Mind / Dragon Pulse / Roar / Recover

Speed EVs outrun Jolly Garchomp so it cannot revenge kill you.
I recommend using Earthquake > Gyro Ball on Forretress. This allows you to kill Shandera with Earthquake on the switch-in so you can freely Rapid Spin the SR that cripples Abomasnow and Rotom-F. Speaking of Abomasnow, definitely drop the scarf; you're just begging Chandelure to come in and trap you. I recommend trying a SubSeed set with Shed Shell as the item so you can escape Chandelure's clutches; Leech Seed is generally all the recovery you'll need. Careful, Max HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD with Sub, Seed, Protect and Blizzard should suffice. Good luck.
 
Cool team! I love Hail sets and enjoy the advantages they bring to the table.

The overall issue that I have with your team is that it's not an incredibly "stall-based" team. Sure, you have Pokemon that can Recover and throw out Stealth Rocks, but I don't see Protect or Substitute anywhere on this list. Those two moves in and of themselves will net you tons of damage against your opponents while they take residual damage.

Your Abomasnow set troubles me particularly. While you claim your team is meant for stalling, its set is purely offensive. Why not give it Leech Seed, Protect, Substitute, Blizzard, and maximize its defenses? Hail faces the tough life of having the worst initiator with seven crippling weaknesses. In my opinion, the best way to play Abomasnow is to make it bulky and switch in on opponents like Rotom-W and Swampert.

Unless you don't want your team to be a stall? That is perfectly acceptable too! I would just make some goals for your team. Do you want to hit hard and have Hail take the extra bit of damage off your opponents? Or do you want to wait an eternity as they dissolve into nothingness? Or perhaps a mixture of the two? I think with some more specific team goals, this team would be easier to rate!
 
Nice team, but Calm Mind Reuniclus absolutely eats you alive - you can't damage it at all, just phaze it, and once it's the last Pokemon you'll lose, plain and simple. You can possibly Trick it with Rotom, but the chances of him being alive at the end of the match are extremely slim due to Chandelure and Tyranitar being around to trap it. I recommend changing Latias to a CM shuffle set. This way, you can switch in and boost alongside Reuniclus the first time it switches in. You'll both get to +6 then you pull off a surprise roar and sweep with a fully boosted Latias.
Latias @ Leftovers | Timid | 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Calm Mind / Dragon Pulse / Roar / Recover

Speed EVs outrun Jolly Garchomp so it cannot revenge kill you.
I recommend using Earthquake > Gyro Ball on Forretress. This allows you to kill Shandera with Earthquake on the switch-in so you can freely Rapid Spin the SR that cripples Abomasnow and Rotom-F. Speaking of Abomasnow, definitely drop the scarf; you're just begging Chandelure to come in and trap you. I recommend trying a SubSeed set with Shed Shell as the item so you can escape Chandelure's clutches; Leech Seed is generally all the recovery you'll need. Careful, Max HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD with Sub, Seed, Protect and Blizzard should suffice. Good luck.

Thanks for the tips! If I run that set though, Latias becomes Pursuit bait and gets destroyed by Conkeldurr's Payback. I've had some success with Sableye and Spiritomb against Reuniclus AND Conkeldurr, but then I lose a valuable fire resistance and I'm more susceptible to Scizor. Would you recommend just dropping Jellicent for a Spiritomb or Sableye and keeping the same Latias set? Or possibly running that Calm Mind set, but running Psyshock instead of Roar to hit both Conkeldurr AND Reuniclus pretty hard after some Calm Minds?

I've used the subseed set on Abomasnow before, but if Rotom dies, I'm outsped by almost everything, which is bad when something is really weak and toxiced but can still do damage to my team. Chandelure is usually not a problem if I can get off rocks, but I'll try the set you listed regardless.

Cool team! I love Hail sets and enjoy the advantages they bring to the table.

The overall issue that I have with your team is that it's not an incredibly "stall-based" team. Sure, you have Pokemon that can Recover and throw out Stealth Rocks, but I don't see Protect or Substitute anywhere on this list. Those two moves in and of themselves will net you tons of damage against your opponents while they take residual damage.

Your Abomasnow set troubles me particularly. While you claim your team is meant for stalling, its set is purely offensive. Why not give it Leech Seed, Protect, Substitute, Blizzard, and maximize its defenses? Hail faces the tough life of having the worst initiator with seven crippling weaknesses. In my opinion, the best way to play Abomasnow is to make it bulky and switch in on opponents like Rotom-W and Swampert.

Unless you don't want your team to be a stall? That is perfectly acceptable too! I would just make some goals for your team. Do you want to hit hard and have Hail take the extra bit of damage off your opponents? Or do you want to wait an eternity as they dissolve into nothingness? Or perhaps a mixture of the two? I think with some more specific team goals, this team would be easier to rate!

I would like the team to primarily be stall based. Causing a lot of switches with the amount of resistances I have and racking up entry hazard damage and negating Leftovers recovery.

Having Abomasnow scarfed has saved me a lot of times when Rotom has died or to get some surprise kills on things such as Thundurus after it has been toxiced and taken SR damage. I've tried the subseed stall set before, but with how much I see HP fire on everything, i try not to let Abomasnow get hit at all. I could try the subseed set again though to see how it works.
 
Alright, I've been trying that Abomasnow set with Shed Shell and its been working great. :) Let's me get Hail going on the first turn and lets me protect to scout.

I still have a lot of problems with Conkeldurr though. I switched to Spiritomb over Jellicent to better handle it and Reuniclus, but its still too overwhelming for my team. I was thinking of running Acid Spray Tentacruel over Forry to handle it better, but then I lose the ability to lay Spikes. I'll keep you guys posted, currently I'm up to 29 on the ladder with it though. :)
 
I'm testing in these days a Hail Stall Team too, and I'm having satisfaction using Espeon which with his Magic Bounce ability prevent the SR, which are a very big problem for each Hail Team (yes you have forretress, but often its not easy to spin) , so my advice its to change Latias, for Espeon just to prevent the Sthealth Rocks.
 
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