a flower that isn't a grass-type [Florges]

[TM13IceBeam]

wow fuck the most used mon in the tier doesn't have a thread

Florges
Type: Fairy/Grass
78 HP / 65 Atk / 68 Def / 112 SpA / 154 SpD / 75 Spe

Abilities (seriously?):
Flower Veil - Prevents lowering of stats of ally Grass-type Pokemon. Useless in singles because Trollfreak. At least Florges wouldn't have minded a Clear Body clone :(
Symbiosis - Some weird item-passing crap that doesn't work in singles because Trollfreak

blah special wall blah

yeah ok basically speaking florges is one of the specially bulkiest mons in the tier, with an excellent 78/154 bulk. her physical bulk is less than stellar though, at 78/68. this is pretty much a gigantic throwback to Chansey, who was sent to OU with the advent of 1760 stats. Florges effectively does most of what Chansey does, with Wish and Aromatherapy, serving as a decent cleric.

Notable moves

Wish
Aromatherapy
Moonblast
Calm Mind
Grass Knot
Energy Ball
Psychic
Toxic
Protect
Sunny Day
Rain Dance
Misty Terrain
Light of Ruin (lolnope)

Sets

Specially defensive

Florges w/ Leftovers
Ability: flip a coin to decide between two equally useless abilities!
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 SpA (or Def)
IVs: 0 Atk
Calm Nature

- Wish
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast / Psychic
- Protect / Toxic

Standard specially defensive fare. Florges can take multiple special hits very well while serving its role as an effective cleric with Wish and Aromatherapy. This is as stupidly generic as it gets. Moonblast is a good STAB attack in general and can cause the occasional hax with special attack debuffs, giving an artificial buffer for Florges' special bulk. Toxic is an alternative over any of the moves, but it is best that you keep Wish and Aromatherapy. Losing Moonblast makes you weak to Taunt, while losing Protect means you cannot effectively WishTect. However, Toxic is a gigantic fuck-you to anything that attempts to setup on Florges, as it places them on a timer for sweeping. Psychic is an option over Moonblast for the ability to 2HKO Nidoking, a very common switch-in to Florges. However, do note that it is a lot weaker than Moonblast and has worse off coverage.

Calcs and stuff

Hide

252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 102-120 (28.3 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 201-237 (55.8 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Houndoom: 124-147 (42.4 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 88-105 (24.4 - 29.1%) -- 66.1% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 102-120 (28.1 - 33.1%) -- 92.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 211-250 (58.6 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Florges Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 182-216 (59.8 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 103-123 (28.6 - 34.1%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (alternatively trick)

220+ SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 84-100 (23.3 - 27.7%) -- 8.8% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Kyurem Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 198-234 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (watch out though)
4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 248-294 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Physically defensive

Florges w/ Leftovers
Ability: flip a coin to decide between two equally useless abilities!
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA (or SpD)
IVs: 0 Atk
Bold Nature

- Wish
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast / Psychic
- Protect / Toxic

"wow fuck you lazy shit this is almost the same set"

There really isn't much difference since both are the exact same shit and Florges has a shitty movepool anyway. However, this variation of Florges sacrifices some special bulk for a substantial increase in physical bulk. This set is notable in being more solid in dealing with mixed Kyurem, although watch out for Hone Claws variants. Florges can still 2HKO with Moonblast though.

Calcs and stuff

Hide

252 Atk Kyurem Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 160-190 (44.4 - 52.7%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 111-132 (30.8 - 36.6%) -- 66.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 130-154 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 261-307 (72.5 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Other options

Florges can also run a CM set, but her physical bulk isn't exactly very spectacular compared to better options like Suicune. Her access to Sunny Day and Rain Dance makes her a decent supporter for weather teams in a pinch, which may be useful combined with her high special bulk, and access to Wish and Aromatherapy to support the team.

Counters/Teammates

Florges is the ultimate piece of setup bait for any Steel-type attacker in the tier, or virtually anything that can take a few special hits while not really giving a fuck about status in general (Suicune is a big example of this). Teammates that can take care of these are highly recommended, such as Mega Aggron to take Steel attacks, or a Haze user to counter CroCune. Nidoking is a rare case of a special attacker that can break his way through Florges easily, so a teammate that can take care of it is also recommended, such as specially defensive Mew.

Conclusion

Florges isn't the most used mon in the tier for nothing, as it brings about many convenient qualities into a team, such as a bulky cleric and a strong special wall that can dish out a few hits while taking them. However, Florges has its own list of flaws including a horrid movepool and exploitable weaknesses. Overall, Florges is a good pick in today's UU, and should not be underestimated.

 

[Darnell]

Ah. I love Florges but how I wish it would have a better offensive move set, it doesn't really allow you to surprise your opponent with the lack of good moves that it can run. This is obviously UU we are talking about but that is where it should stay really, easily outclassed by Sylveon's Pixilate + Hyper Voice in OU as it gives of a better Wish as well and can hit through Substitute.

 

[panamaxis]

CM / Moonblast / Psychic / [Aromatherapy/Sub] can surprise some usual counters (esp. if you're fast enough to outpace defensive roserade) but apart from that yeah, florges' movepool is pretty limited. It has 112 S.atk though, so if you pump it you can actually hurt a lot of things (although good luck ever getting past the steels).

 

[Mahmudkipz]

Offensive CM set is often done better by Gardevoir with better SpA, STAB Psychic and better speed and movepool
Defensive CM set is done better by CroCune, Slowbro, Reuniclus and Cress, all of which do not have to rely on Wish-tect for recovery and has better coverage options i.e. Scald burns to give chip damage and Psyshock to win CM wars by hitting the physical side.

IMO if you really wanna give it more offensive pressence just run the cleric set with Psychic over either Aromatherapy or Protect for the Nidos switch-ins. Even uninvested it hurts a lot to the Nidos and prevent them from switching into you again.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Ah. I love Florges but how I wish it would have a better offensive move set, it doesn't really allow you to surprise your opponent with the lack of good moves that it can run. This is obviously UU we are talking about but that is where it should stay really, easily outclassed by Sylveon's Pixilate + Hyper Voice in OU as it gives of a better Wish as well and can hit through Substitute.

Gotta agree with this @_@ IIRC Florges was only OU pre-bank since Sylveon couldn't get Hyper Voice and Heal Bell. But with Pokebank, Florges is now extremely outclassed by Sylveon. If only Light of Ruin was legal, at least it might be possible that Florges can carve a niche in OU when it is released. Alas, but a dream.

CM / Moonblast / Psychic / [Aromatherapy/Sub] can surprise some usual counters (esp. if you're fast enough to outpace defensive roserade) but apart from that yeah, florges' movepool is pretty limited. It has 112 S.atk though, so if you pump it you can actually hurt a lot of things (although good luck ever getting past the steels).

Offensive CM set is often done better by Gardevoir with better SpA, STAB Psychic and better speed and movepool
Defensive CM set is done better by CroCune, Slowbro, Reuniclus and Cress, all of which do not have to rely on Wish-tect for recovery and has better coverage options i.e. Scald burns to give chip damage and Psyshock to win CM wars by hitting the physical side.

IMO if you really wanna give it more offensive pressence just run the cleric set with Psychic over either Aromatherapy or Protect for the Nidos switch-ins. Even uninvested it hurts a lot to the Nidos and prevent them from switching into you again.

yeah florges's movepool sucks which makes a CM set really bad imo. Also Florges's defense is a lot less solid than say, Slowbro or Suicune. I think I kind of forgot about Psychic there: it could be a worthy slash over Moonblast if only for the fact that you can catch Nidoking on the switchin, which is well worth it imo considering Nidoking is a really common switch-in to Florges afaik due to Toxic immunity and Moonblast resistance.
4 SpA Florges Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 182-216 (59.8 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[panamaxis]

Idk, I've used CM myself and it was pretty decent. Fairy as a STAB is really good in terms of coverage, psychic makes the poisons irrelevant so you only really need to be concerned about the steels and fire types (mainly just steels).

From an offensive standpoint yes, Gardevoir is superior but it's not really as simple as that in practice. Even when you're investing in special attack instead of defenses, Florges is a much better pivot/wall on teams than gardevoir. I think it's worth considering on teams that appreciate the role that florges plays in stopping threats but don't necessarily need wish support.

It also helps that no-one has any qualms about switching in crobat/roserade to florges. On practice, perhaps you're right, but florges can fulfill a specific niche even with a CM set, so I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's outright outclassed.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

Idk, I've used CM myself and it was pretty decent. Fairy as a STAB is really good in terms of coverage, psychic makes the poisons irrelevant so you only really need to be concerned about the steels and fire types (mainly just steels).

From an offensive standpoint yes, Gardevoir is superior but it's not really as simple as that in practice. Even when you're investing in special attack instead of defenses, Florges is a much better pivot/wall on teams than gardevoir. I think it's worth considering on teams that appreciate the role that florges plays in stopping threats but don't necessarily need wish support.

It also helps that no-one has any qualms about switching in crobat/roserade to florges. On practice, perhaps you're right, but florges can fulfill a specific niche even with a CM set, so I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's outright outclassed.

The thing about CM Florges is that it lacks the coverage to be successful. Fairy + Non-STAB Psychic is kinda bad. CM Gardy can run Shadow Ball + Moonblast for good neutral coverage, all the while also having an alternative in Psyshock to hit specially bulky things like, lol, Florges herself.

252+ SpA Florges Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 188-222 (71.7 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Gardevoir Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 276-326 (105.3 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Florges Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 248-292 (81.5 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gardevoir Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 362-428 (119 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So in comparison, Florges have to eat a Sludge Bomb/Wave while Gardy doesn't for a Roserade/Nido switch-in. Granted Florges take the hit a lot better and lures them in 9 out of 10 times, but without Wish-tect you now have to rely on lefties to recover the ~50% and Gardy doesn't even take damage at all for outright OHKOing the threat. There is no denying that it is a good pivot, but it performs the role of cleric better than it as a pivot because without recovery, it gets worn down easily.

 

[panamaxis]

Why would florges be staying in on offensive roserade or nidoking if it doesn't have a CM up...
Is doing ~80% to roserade/nidoking when unboosted supposed to mean that florges is a bad CMer or something...?

I don't see really see why fairy + non-STAB psychic is bad though, it's pretty great neutral coverage, only really missing out on steels (fire types will just get wrecked by SR). Most of the poisons in UU get wrecked by +1 psychic (as shown by your calcs even +0 psychic hurts a lot). If you're a fire type in UU you have to take SR each time you want to come in to check florges. That just leaves steel types in UU as the only thing that moonblast isn't hitting, so....

I think you missed my point anyway. I conceded that gardevoir is offensively a superior CMer to florges. Florges does things that gardevoir cannot in terms of being a superior pivot which is why CM Florges has a niche.

(Yes, Florges does perform the role of a cleric better than a CMer, that is very clear).

 

[Mahmudkipz]

Why would florges be staying in on offensive roserade or nidoking if it doesn't have a CM up...
Is doing ~80% to roserade/nidoking when unboosted supposed to mean that florges is a bad CMer or something...?

I don't see really see why fairy + non-STAB psychic is bad though, it's pretty great neutral coverage, only really missing out on steels (fire types will just get wrecked by SR). Most of the poisons in UU get wrecked by +1 psychic (as shown by your calcs even +0 psychic hurts a lot). If you're a fire type in UU you have to take SR each time you want to come in to check florges. That just leaves steel types in UU as the only thing that moonblast isn't hitting, so....

I think you missed my point anyway. I conceded that gardevoir is offensively a superior CMer to florges. Florges does things that gardevoir cannot in terms of being a superior pivot which is why CM Florges has a niche.

(Yes, Florges does perform the role of a cleric better than a CMer, that is very clear).

Just comparing the obvious switch-ins into Fairy types. It can be a pivot but a pivot without recovery outside of lefties is still really mediocre. Part of the reasons why Amoongus, Tangrowth, Slowbro and Alomomola are good pivots is that they have Recovery all the while crippling switchins with Spore, Knock Off and Scald respectively. Florges have none of that all the while not OHKOing common switch-ins. The only niche Florges has as a pivot is that it can serve as a win condition with CM, which is hard to do when Florges is weakened throughout the match by chip damage i.e. Rocks and weather, all the while Slowbro does the same niche with Psyshock (wins CM war by hitting physically), Scald (wins CM war by chip damage) and more importantly Slack Off and Regenerator.

As for an offensive CMing Fairy, Gardy outclasses it as we have all agreed as it has more immediate power that allows it to beat certain Fairy checks like Rose and Nido without having CM boost.


I guess it can work as a Fairy type pivot with CM backing it up, but then why run it over its Cleric post and let something esle as a pivot/win condition? It just faces way too many competition IMO.

 

[WebBowser]

My main problem with florges is that it's a free swap in for Darm, viciti, and other fire type monsters that inhabit the tier. CB darm in particular can outspeed and ohko florges easily, while dealing heavy damage if not outright 2hkoing any swap in.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

This set is notable in being more solid in dealing with mixed Kyurem, although watch out for Hone Claws variants.

Does seriously anyone use Hone claws kyurem besides me? (mixed HC, but whatever)

Like the post, not so standardish and boring like my treads

 

[Swamp Link]

Yo, if I was going to run Toxic on Florges, I would definitely run it over Aromatherapy, not Protect. Shit, I would probably give up Moonblast before I gave up Protect. Quite simply, you cannot heal if you don't have protect unless you beat all of their team, because each time you come in on something you wall and set up a wish, they can switch into something that threatens you out and you either die or give up the wish. And really, Psychic is worth a mention, I suppose, but don't slash it with Moonblast, it's so incredibly inferior.

As for EVs, you can really combine the sets into one with an EV spread of 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD @ Calm nature. The 24 Special Defense EVs hit a jump point with the nature, and then the rest goes into physical defense because you will run into way more instances where Florges needs more physical bulk than when it needs the special bulk. A specially defensive spread is ineffective in comparison because Florges usually doesn't need the extra bulk to wall stuff specially, while it really wants the bulk physically. It may only run one set, but that set is pretty good, and the reason it is the most used Pokemon.

 

[CQC]

Yo, if I was going to run Toxic on Florges, I would definitely run it over Aromatherapy, not Protect. Shit, I would probably give up Moonblast before I gave up Protect. Quite simply, you cannot heal if you don't have protect unless you beat all of their team, because each time you come in on something you wall and set up a wish, they can switch into something that threatens you out and you either die or give up the wish. And really, Psychic is worth a mention, I suppose, but don't slash it with Moonblast, it's so incredibly inferior.

I've had quite a lot of success with Toxic/Moonblast/Wish/Aromatherapy Florges in the early stages of the meta. Though the reason why it was working was that I had a wish-passing Latias on the same team(also, on a sidenote, I really love having two wish-passers, literally nothing dies).

 

[RowDog]

One thing which I have seen which is pretty darn gimmicky but can work and carries pretty big surprise factor is Choice Scarf Florges. No one really expects it and can actually function reasonably well with moves like: Moonblast, Psychic, Psyshock, Energy Ball, Grass Knot and HP whatever.

Definitely not its best set but has some viability (although rather limited) and can net surprise KOs and cause some troubles for teams that aren't prepared for it.

 

[WebBowser]

The main problem with scarfed florges is that physical fire types are still a full counter to it. Entei, Viciti, and even Darm can come in, sponge a couple hits, and KO back pretty easily.

You might be able to go special bruiser florges though, it's SPA really isn't that bad and base 95 fairy STAB is quite good. Also, as a bruiser florges isn't really outclassed by garde because of florges' much superior bulk, unlike scarf or specs florges.

I think the reason why there hasn't been much discussion on the fairy flower is that it's movepool is so barren that it's hard to deviate from standard movesets, most deviation occurs with the setting of EVs (phys defensive, sp defensive, and special bruiser are all viable imo).

 

[RowDog]

I'm not saying that the set should be used, and I haven't used it personally, but it probably deserves a mention. It's offensive movepool is pretty crap though, and is outclassed a bit. But 112 SpAtk and 75 base speed is definitely workable with.

Though I do wonder how much better this Poke would be with a few more moves and a useful ability.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

One thing which I have seen which is pretty darn gimmicky but can work and carries pretty big surprise factor is Choice Scarf Florges. No one really expects it and can actually function reasonably well with moves like: Moonblast, Psychic, Psyshock, Energy Ball, Grass Knot and HP whatever.

Definitely not its best set but has some viability (although rather limited) and can net surprise KOs and cause some troubles for teams that aren't prepared for it.

It does not get Psyshock.

Any kind of offensive attempt is really bad outside of surprise factor, as most Fire and Steel types still get a free switchin. Maybe for the next game they willgive her Earth Power and some stronger Fairy STAB over Gardy she'd be not as outclassed in an offensive role... Even if she has got the movepool of Slurpuff (Surf for Fire and Nido, Flamethrower for Steels and Roserade) it'd be cool since she had the SpA to sweep while Slurpuff lacks it >,<.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Scarf Florges sounds like a bad idea to me tbh as Florges's speed isn't exactly amazing and it doesn't have a great offensive movepool to back it up. All her moves leave her walled by Fire-types, a bad thing as most fire-types in this tier tend to be physical (Arcanine, Darmanitan, Entei, Victini).

webbowser has the right idea with Florges as it's indeed difficult to deviate from the standard cleric role, as CM is to a degree outclassed by other options like Gardevoir.

re: toxic over aromatherapy: Personally I feel that the main reason why you'd dump Florges onto your team in the first place is for Aromatherapy. With 78 base HP, Florges's wishes are actually rather modestly sized and not very big at all. However, Aromatherapy means Florges serves a niche as a cleric which not many Pokemon can actually do (Eeveelutions, Ampharos, Celebi are the next options for clerics off the top of my head). Dumping Aromatherapy makes really little sense here in this case.

 

[WebBowser]

Scarf Florges sounds like a bad idea to me tbh as Florges's speed isn't exactly amazing and it doesn't have a great offensive movepool to back it up. All her moves leave her walled by Fire-types, a bad thing as most fire-types in this tier tend to be physical (Arcanine, Darmanitan, Entei, Victini).

webbowser has the right idea with Florges as it's indeed difficult to deviate from the standard cleric role, as CM is to a degree outclassed by other options like Gardevoir.

re: toxic over aromatherapy: Personally I feel that the main reason why you'd dump Florges onto your team in the first place is for Aromatherapy. With 78 base HP, Florges's wishes are actually rather modestly sized and not very big at all. However, Aromatherapy means Florges serves a niche as a cleric which not many Pokemon can actually do (Eeveelutions, Ampharos, Celebi are the next options for clerics off the top of my head). Dumping Aromatherapy makes really little sense here in this case.

The problem with dumping wish is that you lose your only bit of recovery, making florges fairly easy to wear down.

Gonna be honest here, I've never felt much reason to use florges over vaporeon, who has a much better health stat, comparable special bulk and superior phys bulk, with water immunity to boot. The only reason anyone gives florges the time of day is because fairy is a stupid good defensive type. Also, vap actually has, y'know, options, like phasing or dry passing wishes. Gosh I wish vap got calm mind, it's stats are absolutely perfect for it.

If you really wanted to dump something on florges' set, dump protect and pair florges with a second wish passer. Double wish pass is very viable and frees up moveslots on both of the walls in question (however, even here Vap is better because vap can actually make use of this extra moveslot, unlike florges).

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Any of you guys into mixed walling? I usually run 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD Calm on my Florges in general...It's specifically to avoid a 2HKO from LO Starmie's Psyshock. You don't have to worry about factoring in SR since Protect gives you a free turn of Lefties recovery after switching in. It's also good for taking stray physical hits that might hurt a wee bit more otherwise, since Florges still has excellent SpD to bank on.

 

[WebBowser]

Any of you guys into mixed walling? I usually run 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD Calm on my Florges in general...It's specifically to avoid a 2HKO from LO Starmie's Psyshock. You don't have to worry about factoring in SR since Protect gives you a free turn of Lefties recovery after switching in. It's also good for taking stray physical hits that might hurt a wee bit more otherwise, since Florges still has excellent SpD to bank on.

I love mixed walls. I feel like the ability to take heavy hits from both sides of the spectrum is a valuable ability for any wall, especially special walls because Psyshock is a thing. I think that that's a good spread for Florges, but as stated earlier, I just find it difficult to justify florges over vaporeon due to the utility vap provides. Florges is without a doubt the better cleric and toxic staller, but vap is arguably a better wish passer and is inarguably a better phazer and BPer (making it a great defensive pivot for voltturn). Vap also has scald immunity and comparable mixed bulk, but inferior typing (lets face it, Florges would be RU/NU if it weren't for it's phenomenal typing).

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

I love mixed walls. I feel like the ability to take heavy hits from both sides of the spectrum is a valuable ability for any wall, especially special walls because Psyshock is a thing. I think that that's a good spread for Florges, but as stated earlier, I just find it difficult to justify florges over vaporeon due to the utility vap provides. Florges is without a doubt the better cleric and toxic staller, but vap is arguably a better wish passer and is inarguably a better phazer and BPer (making it a great defensive pivot for voltturn). Vap also has scald immunity and comparable mixed bulk, but inferior typing (lets face it, Florges would be RU/NU if it weren't for it's phenomenal typing).

Not gonna argue with that, I totally agree that Vaporeon's better at passing Wishes/PHazing than Florges, and that its typing is what really holds it up. However though the threats that Florges can stand up to by virtue of its typing and bulk definitely outnumber those of Vaporeon. Not only that but you are still able to use something else as your bulky water on your team, which covers the fire-types who love switching in on Florges. Overall I wouldn't say one truly outclasses the other, more or less they sorta fill a role based on need

 

[Aquaslash]

Quite frankly, I'm just glad to see this thing not getting ripped on for a change. It's a pretty boss support mon and that SpD is no joke. That CM set is reason enough to keep all your physical attackers healthy through the match, or to make sure you can get sun up really fast for Mega Houndoom. Actually...

252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges in Sun: 226-267 (62.7 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Honestly, the fact that she takes it neutrally and isn't completely obliterated kinda amazes me.

 

[subfer1]

I think a deffensive CM set works, but it is quite tough to set up (most people just outright do as much as they can to destroy you or stop you from setting up). Though I stll catch some people off-guard with my CM Florges, it's not always that I can pull it off. She's Bold and she's got full HP and def investment with the remainder EVs into speed for a bit of an outrun; CM, sub, Hidden Power (ground) and Moonblast. If Crobat comes in, I'm done in, but she does her trick sometimes.

Though aside of my somewhat succesful wins with her, I know the set is still difficult to pull off. Though the ones you propose here seem much more useful in all honesty, so I will have to try them out.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

The fact that Florges gives many switch in opportunties to some of the most horrifying wallbreakers in the tier means Florges will have a hard time setting up unfortunately. Even though they are mostly weak to HP Ground (Nidoking, Victini and now Magnezone) they have enough bulk to take one and leave a huge dent to Florges. The fact that CM Florges do not have Wishtect recovery means that it won't be able to keep itself healthy enough to sweep. Heck, if you are up to catching people off guard then use Specs Florges (which is still a terrible set but does have its surprise factor) who hit fairly hard right off the bat and takes out her usual counters with relative ease (Specs Psychic can OHKO Nidoking)