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Other A guide to hyper offense in Gen 6 OU
- Thread starter Milkshook
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I question about Florges, just use Sylveon if it is really needed. In fact, I don't really think a HO team may want a cleric tbh.
Btw, how can you miss out Gengar and Bisharp? Those are the premier HO support in the form of spinblocking and defogblocking
And perhaps you may want to mention specifically about some pivots, which is rather important when it comes to grabbing momentum, good pivots includes sth like Genesect.
Btw, how can you miss out Gengar and Bisharp? Those are the premier HO support in the form of spinblocking and defogblocking
And perhaps you may want to mention specifically about some pivots, which is rather important when it comes to grabbing momentum, good pivots includes sth like Genesect.
I thought something was missing.
Might want to mention the whole point of hyper offense: Using multiple offensive pokemon with similar counters to overwhelm the opponent. Pokemon A weakens the shared counters for pokemon B and C so B and C can wreck havoc with their counters weakened. Take out florges and cleric support in general. HO ain't got time for that shit. I'd delete everything that talks about potential bans. Its speculation and not relevant to the guide. Also, rapid spin over defog is a good choice because HO teams would like their hazards up to guarantee important KOs
Honestly, this guide needs a lot of work. Like maybe start over from scratch and research more thoroughly kind of work.
Honestly, this guide needs a lot of work. Like maybe start over from scratch and research more thoroughly kind of work.
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I never mentioned using defog on a hyper-offense team and support is needed, just not too many only 1 or 2.
I considered making a part on offensive cores while making the thread but it didn't seem too important. I'll work on it ASAP ^.^
the thread means a major revamp anyway. I point at the mention of defense at all which is for a balanced/bulky offense team not Hyper Offense, (Its in the name). the aim of Hyper Offense is to crush your foe with offensive pressure and momentum, not giving them a chance to use status, set up hazards or bulky sweepers etc. Mentioning Florges is a crime, especially when Sylveon exists but neither should be used on a HO team. Basically this thread should be Dual Bird Core, DeoSharp, Volt Turn and then asking for creative suggestions (like the Double Fire cores i've seen around with Zard, Entei and more, or an new Double Dragon core). so some other mons you should mention are Landorus(Both Formes for pure power and volt turn shenanigans ), Thunderus (Both Formes, primarily Incarnate), Rotom-W (If your going to have bulky mons, a volt turner is your best shot) and of course, Genesect.
the op could use alot of work, but Hyper Offense is a lot harder to play this gen. Thus its alot more fun!
the op could use alot of work, but Hyper Offense is a lot harder to play this gen. Thus its alot more fun!
Please switch Florgres with Sylveon ASAP as Florgres is unviable
HO teams, pretty much by default don't need clerics whatsoever. Generally HO pokes are meant to be frail, but extremely powerful and overwhelm the opponents defensive cores. Having another member to participate is generally better than trying to keep frail pokemon alive. Another point to HO is to keep increadible offensive pressure. Having a defensive mon such as Sylveon (going to assume Florges was a typo) or Chansey completely kills this momentum.
Also why is there such a big deal over sticky web? Sticky web is pretty rare and easy to clear which makes it not a huge concern. Skarmory and Mandibuzz should probably be mentioned as two of the main defog users for HO as unlike most defog users, they can maintain momentum with whirlwind. Also suicide leads are entirely unnessisary (though not always terrible) as often your hazards will immediately be cleared away. I would say on most teams they're not needed, especially smeargle. In general, leads are much less important than they were in gen 4, as team preview rewards prediction much more.
Besides dual birds, you should mention keldeo and kyruem-b as some of the best wall breakers in OU (even if there in UU for some dumb reason), and some of HO's best answers to stall. Other pokemon that should be mentioned are the mega-charzards, aegislash, genesect, landorus, thundurus-i, manaphy, volcorona, rotom-w, band-Tyranitar, among others.
I bolded pokes that deserve a mention in the guide.
If you were going to summerize HO in 7 words, this would do it pretty well.
Also why is there such a big deal over sticky web? Sticky web is pretty rare and easy to clear which makes it not a huge concern. Skarmory and Mandibuzz should probably be mentioned as two of the main defog users for HO as unlike most defog users, they can maintain momentum with whirlwind. Also suicide leads are entirely unnessisary (though not always terrible) as often your hazards will immediately be cleared away. I would say on most teams they're not needed, especially smeargle. In general, leads are much less important than they were in gen 4, as team preview rewards prediction much more.
Besides dual birds, you should mention keldeo and kyruem-b as some of the best wall breakers in OU (even if there in UU for some dumb reason), and some of HO's best answers to stall. Other pokemon that should be mentioned are the mega-charzards, aegislash, genesect, landorus, thundurus-i, manaphy, volcorona, rotom-w, band-Tyranitar, among others.
I bolded pokes that deserve a mention in the guide.
If you were going to summerize HO in 7 words, this would do it pretty well.
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Another thing be add on, Sticky Web is in general a COUNTER to HO team, as pokemon which are speedy and frail suffers from it most, it is only useful for HO when against another HO team to win the speed race, or else HO teams tends to out speed everyone anyway. On the other hand, HO teams generally, or are at least expected to, deal with revenge kill really well anyway(massive sacs), and don't really values the extra speed advantage that much.
However, SW could really shut down your entire HO team if unprepared, when you think of it, some of the major members in the last gen HO, like Keldeo and some other swift swimmers, probably can't do any thing with -1 speed. But HO are getting on the train of priorities(Bisharp, Azumarill) anyway so this can be less a concern depending on team style.
However, SW could really shut down your entire HO team if unprepared, when you think of it, some of the major members in the last gen HO, like Keldeo and some other swift swimmers, probably can't do any thing with -1 speed. But HO are getting on the train of priorities(Bisharp, Azumarill) anyway so this can be less a concern depending on team style.
Magic coat deo defense stops deo speed in its tracks, doesn't actually kill though. :/
...deo-s runs magic coat too
Thundurus-I actually does really well on a HO team. He can hit hard and even wallbreak with a mixed attacking set. Prankster Taunt is also really important as it can stop Defoggers from doing their thing.
I was experimenting with a HO team a while back and I found him to be a very valuable utility mon.
I was experimenting with a HO team a while back and I found him to be a very valuable utility mon.
Actually I don't understand why people mention Florges all of time, when it's outclassed by Sylveon in every single way. And it's not like you can afford to use Cleric on Hyper Offensive team. This technically means that you loose all momentum just to heal status. And Hyper Offense which looses momentum means big trouble as pretty much all of time are really squishy. If you let something like MegaLucario get free set-up, saying that you are in trouble is understatement...
If you are worried of Sticky Web (and honestly good Anti-Lead should be able to fight those, as technically only Shuckle is the only user with bulk and rest of them mostly are used as Leads, in many cases suicide ones) you may run some offensive Defog user or Rapid Spinner like...
Latios @ Life Orb
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
~ Draco Meteor
~ Psyshock
~ Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Fighting / Recover
~ Defog
Simple offensive Defog user. Hits hard, isn't easy to set-up on for some dangerous stuff for HO (except MegaTyranitar) and I think it's the only really offensive user of Defog.
Mentioned earlier Starmie is fine as well for this (it also absorbs status with Natural Cure) or Excadrill (Offensive set with SD and Rapid Spin should be ok as well).
Although to be blunt - I wouldn't bother with those. Support moves like those used in wrong moment may really make you waste turns and wasting turns is something HO can't afford to do.
While I still say you should just have things which allow you to absorb:
- Paralysis, which means Electric or Ground types are best candidates for this. Landorus-T is probably best bet which may be used as Bulky, and yet offensive pivot or just straight up set-up sweeper. Both Thundurus forms are pretty good for this as well. Or as long as you don't switch directly into T-Wave, something with Lum Berry should be fine as well.
- Burn, which unfortunately is much more tricky to find. There are some offensive Fire types like Darmanitan, but their viability in OU is questionable and Heatran is a bit slow for my tastes for those teams (and ScarfTran is unfortunately set-up bait for some nasty stuff). And Infernape is easily walled and too squishy to absorb something like Sacred Fire from Entei (although can switch on WoW, but he is still squishy, so bad prediction may end up ugly). Throwing some special attacker which can absorb fire attack or WoW sounds fine (one of L@ti Twins for example).
- At least 2-3 mons (if not 4-5) which are Levitators/Flying types so they totally ignore Sticky Web in case something goes wrong and you couldn't stop it earlier on.
And just attack, attack and again attack with the goal of weakening your team main counter(s) to the point where they can't handle them anymore. It's just that simple. If you loose momentum, you get punished for it as you are too squishy to handle some dangerous foes.
If you are worried of Sticky Web (and honestly good Anti-Lead should be able to fight those, as technically only Shuckle is the only user with bulk and rest of them mostly are used as Leads, in many cases suicide ones) you may run some offensive Defog user or Rapid Spinner like...
Latios @ Life Orb
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
~ Draco Meteor
~ Psyshock
~ Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Fighting / Recover
~ Defog
Simple offensive Defog user. Hits hard, isn't easy to set-up on for some dangerous stuff for HO (except MegaTyranitar) and I think it's the only really offensive user of Defog.
Mentioned earlier Starmie is fine as well for this (it also absorbs status with Natural Cure) or Excadrill (Offensive set with SD and Rapid Spin should be ok as well).
Although to be blunt - I wouldn't bother with those. Support moves like those used in wrong moment may really make you waste turns and wasting turns is something HO can't afford to do.
While I still say you should just have things which allow you to absorb:
- Paralysis, which means Electric or Ground types are best candidates for this. Landorus-T is probably best bet which may be used as Bulky, and yet offensive pivot or just straight up set-up sweeper. Both Thundurus forms are pretty good for this as well. Or as long as you don't switch directly into T-Wave, something with Lum Berry should be fine as well.
- Burn, which unfortunately is much more tricky to find. There are some offensive Fire types like Darmanitan, but their viability in OU is questionable and Heatran is a bit slow for my tastes for those teams (and ScarfTran is unfortunately set-up bait for some nasty stuff). And Infernape is easily walled and too squishy to absorb something like Sacred Fire from Entei (although can switch on WoW, but he is still squishy, so bad prediction may end up ugly). Throwing some special attacker which can absorb fire attack or WoW sounds fine (one of L@ti Twins for example).
- At least 2-3 mons (if not 4-5) which are Levitators/Flying types so they totally ignore Sticky Web in case something goes wrong and you couldn't stop it earlier on.
And just attack, attack and again attack with the goal of weakening your team main counter(s) to the point where they can't handle them anymore. It's just that simple. If you loose momentum, you get punished for it as you are too squishy to handle some dangerous foes.
Starmie is just a poor man's Greninja in HO. Sure it can spin but you just lost all your momentum when you do spin. Greninja hits harder and is faster while retaining great coverage as Starmie does. End of story.
Haha it took me way to long to realise that.
Scolipede is pretty good as a lead. It can set up spikes, hurt stuff with megahorn, and baton pass sd / speed boosts.
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