A Slightly Gimmicky Hyperoffensive Team

masterjiji

There's a team I've grown quite fond of in 4th Gen recently. I have gotten startlingly good results despite its very odd appearance, as it centers around a ridiculous amount of surprise tactics and misdirection. Also, this is the first time I'm throwing a team up on Smogon, so bear with my lack of pictures to catch everyone's eye. Alas, most of these are Smogon sets, so only a couple of truly original sets show up.

At a glance:
Lucario
Heatran
Kingdra
Roserade
Metagross
Cresselia




THE NITTY GRITTY

LUCARIO: Bow To None
Lonely (+Atk, -Def) nature
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe, 0 Def IV
-Counter
-Close Combat
-Crunch
-Extremespeed
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus

A traditional bit of Counter-Sash that NOBODY EVER SEEMS TO EXPECT. I still always get a chuckle out of the retarded Swampert or Metagross lead who sees a Lucario, fears the Swords Dance and EQs in a blind panic only to immediately be faced with a 6-5 on turn two. Pretty much this guy's entire purpose is to attack until he keels over, which can really mess some people up who expect more offensively reserved tactics (On the other hand, it's a fricking Lucario. What's it gonna do, set up Toxic Spikes?). CC and Crunch get notable coverage, and EXSpeed is there for the occasional revenge-kill if Luke gets phazed out, but it's mainly for picking off those pesky Sash users. I am considering subbing in Bullet Punch instead in order to at least lightly smack incoming Ghosts once my Sash is gone, and I can't think of any notable situations where the extra 20 power would matter. Thoughts?
Another thing I like about this Lucario is that the vast majority of Trick-Scarf leads don't bother him a bit. It's pretty easy to see coming these days and just go straight for an attack, and then all of a sudden a 418-speed Lucario is on the field butt-raping everything.
As an aside, this guy also works quite well against Fake Out leads due to Inner Focus, with EXSpeed or Bullet Punch to nip off Sashes as usual. The only leads I consistently have trouble with are: Gyarados, who usually sets up on my attack drop and can Taunt my Counter if I use it a turn too early; and paraflinch-hax Jirachi, and I believe that's all I have to say about that. If Lucario stays in for a bit, he also falls victim to Zapdos (I call it Birdachu) rather easily for my tastes thanks to Roost-stalling, but that's why I have Metagross. (I'll explain that in a minute.)

HEATRAN: Bluff Check, DC 20 (Epic Nerdity is Epic)
Naive (-SpD, +Spe) nature
4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Substitute
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Explosion
Item: Leftovers

More delicious, delicious misdirection. The best possible scenario is for something with a blatant Fire weakness to come in and revenge-kill Lucario. From there, it's easy to bluff a ScarfTran set and get a free sub. Even if Blissey comes in, two to three Fire Blasts and an Explosion are going to hurt like hell if not kill.
This is really just a Smogon set; nothing much to say. It's great bait for Cresselia against an actual ScarfTran, and Roserade is great bait for ol' faux ScarfTran here. It also has all the same counters, which I'm not terribly familiar with so please do point out the more dangerous ones you notice.

KINGDRA: Shenanigans Galore
Modest (-Atk, +SpA) nature
252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-Ice Beam
-Hydro Pump
-Hidden Power [Electric]
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Swift Swim

...WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS. I'll tell you what it is, it's the greatest damn Kingdra ever.
It works best by coming in either to shrug off a Fire attack aimed at Roserade (though a Burn is unsavory, it's not the end of the world like for most Kingdras) or as an ACTUAL revenge killer, most often right after Heatran embraces his Islamic-extremist roots, and going straight for unexpected attacks on chunky switch-ins, especially the hilarious Skarmory Switch-in Situation (as I have named it). You'd be surprised (I was too) at the number of times a physical wall has come in to punish my DD-setup only to be on the receiving end of a Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump. Early-game, I only like to show Hydro Pump or Draco Meteor, since Mixdra will occasionally carry one of those. It's either later on or when I really need it when such hilarity as HP Electric hits the field and OHRs their precious Gyarados.
The big thing I am undecided about here is the ability. On the one hand, Scarfed Swift Swim plus HP Electric equals a thoroughly dead Rain Dance team, but Rain is awfully rare in OU aside from some Ludicolos. On the other hand, critical hits shouldn't be necessarily relied on, so Sniper has some iffiness about it too.
Again, unfortunately, there are problems. If a Gyarados actually switches INTO this Kingdra, I'm never cocky enough to have anticipated that by choosing Hidden Power. At the most, Gyarados will take negligible damage from a Draco Meteor thanks to its special bulk and be able to set up or attack/Taunt the switch-in. Also, Birdachu makes a return appearance as a well-suited deterrent, as even Ice Beam won't do enough damage to it for my tastes.
In looking at this fellow, please don't tell me to change to a mixed or physical set, whether you think those are "better" options or not. This guy is my first completely original set, he's close to my heart, and the aforementioned Rain scenario has actually happened, turning a 2-5 into a 2-0. This dude is going to stay a special set pretty no matter what, and there's very little chance of the Choice Scarf going to anyone else either. Instead, tell me what ELSE sucks about the team, or at least what is mediocre and could use an alteration.

ROSERADE: The Glue
Timid (-Atk, +Spe) nature
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Leaf Storm
-Sleep Powder
-Hidden Power [Ground]
-Sludge Bomb
Item: Life Orb

Another typical Smogon thingamajigger. It's definitely the glue of the team, being the only completely straight-ahead sweeper that ever stays alive for long. Having STAB Grass is handy, especially because Swampert can be be a pain in the ass for everybody else on the team. Snagging a kill on non-Scarfed Heatrans is also quite handy, because that's one less potential explosion to worry about with Cress later on. The main beef here is that it can't touch Skarmory other than to put it to sleep, and if I miss then Roserade fellaciates a STAB Brave Bird. I can't always count on having Heatran to scare it off either, since Heatran tends to blow up on special walls early on in the game in order to facilitate, if not perform, their murdering. However, Skarmory often doesn't come into contact with Roserade because it's rather easily baited into switching into Kingdra and dying immediately thereafter.

CRESSELIA: Stallin' Stalin
Calm (-Atk, +SpD) nature
252 HP/200 Def/56 SpD
-Charge Beam
-Ice Beam
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
Item: Leftovers

Surprise, another Smogon set. Cresselia can take hits like a damn mountain, and with its handy Ground immunity it dodges a lot of things for Heatran. Cress also jumps in for Roserade a lot; R often gets targeted with Ground attacks because of her weaker physical defense, and the former is also neutral to Flying and Fire attacks that plague the latter on a daily basis.
Interestingly enough, this set tends to work best at the end of the game, when any special walls have been exploded upon and all that's left is one or two sweepers and perhaps a solitary tank such as Torterra. In spite of Cresselia's pathetic SpA, Ice Beam and Charge Beam will still scare the hell out of Dragonite/Flygon and Gyarados respectively once they see it, and neither will stay in for long. Past that point, it's typical Cresselia fare: stall until the cows don't come home, and then cry because there are no more cows for you to slaughter with a +6 Ice Beam.

METAGROSS: Fuck Your Breloom
Impish (+Def, -SpA) nature
252 HP, 240 Def, 16 Spe
-Explosion
-Sleep Talk
-
-
Item: Choice Band

I found this set somewhere a while back; I don't remember where, but I want to give that person money. Again, you're probably seriously questioning my blood alcohol level at this point. Well, with this particular Gross, I have chained my way through a rather incredible number of Blissey, Suicune, Birdachu, Celebi, Gliscor, Shaymin, Tentacruel, and even the occasional Swampert by politely blowing up in its punk-ass face and then calling it a wanker for staying in. Even the mighty Breloom can't shut it down thanks to a one-choice-only Sleep Talk, which has resulted in a number of hilarious rage-quits when some poor noob loses their precious Spore-Puncher.
This one is another one that will take a crapton of convincing, evidence, and money to convince me to drop from the team, because he's an amazing anti-Zapdos. Zappy often stays in, expecting to be able to stall out an Agility 'Gross with Roost and whack back with T-bolt every once in a while, and then acts all sad when its skeletal system goes flying out of its rectum.


OKAY. Now that I've said all that, here's some weaknesses I know about:
1.) Zapdos. Zapdos Zapdos Zapdos. If I don't have Metagross and Cress is too hurt to take a hit, I am literally boned in the tush against a Birdachu.
2.) Bulky Baton Pass leads, the main one coming to mind being Zapdos again. Even with a +Atk nature, Lucario can't do much to an unfortunate number of them (excluding Umbreon, obviously) with a good but not great 350 attack, particularly if they can get around the Counter-Sash bit.
3.) Paraflinch Jirachi. Then again, who doesn't technically have a weakness to this? All I can really do here is A.) hope to be able to Rest with Cress through all the flinching and paralyzation, or B.) plop Heatran in front of it, get paralyzed, hopefully Sub or hurt a switch-in, and have to deal with the same Jirachi again later on even less even footing.

That's al I can motivate myself to think of right now in the way of weaknesses, as it's 11:30 and I pulled an all-nighter last night. Any comments and criticisms are welcome, especially of the anti-Zapdos variety.
 
Alright, you have several issues with your team. First off: you have no entry hazards. Entry hazards are a MUST for all successful teams. In order to be able to net kills, you've got to have some sort of hazard, because otherwise, you may not be able to hit hard enough. So my suggestion is, run Gliscor instead of Lucario. In doing so, you've just removed your Zapdos problem. It also helps you deal with Jirachi because the only thing she can do to you is Iron Head (if it's the paraflinch version, like you said). Plus it can set up Stealth Rock and Taunt slower leads. The set should look something like this:
Gliscor @ Leftovers
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
This should be able to take your problems. If you want, you can run Roost instead of Stone Edge, but Stone Edge allows you to deal with Zapdos. Toxic could work as well. Taunt takes out those pesky Baton Pass leads

Next you need to have something be able to actually sweep late game. Your Roserade isn't sufficient enough and that Metagross is only a burden. So replacing Metagross something like DD Dragonite or DD Tyranitar would make alot of sense. This way, you aren't making yourself a sitting duck when you're left with only Metagross. Plus, one mistake and your opponent just switched their Ghost into your Explosion (like Rotom-A). You could try an Agili-Gross instead, which can also explode, but can sweep as well. And since your Cresselia knows Sleep Talk, you shouldn't be worrying about Breloom at all (you just jump to your Cresselia if they bring out Breloom). That way you can jump back to Metagross and start setting up to sweep.

Hopefully these suggestions help you.

Oh: and also, pictures would certainly make this RMT much nicer looking.
 
On Metagross, even if you are only going to use Explosion, why not have two moves that could come useful once in awhile? How about Bullet Punch/Meteor Mash and Earthquake? Its weird having two moves, and your Metagross doesn't do much, except eliminate one Pokemon from each side (usually).
 
One of the best Metagross counters is Rhotom, so I don't see how that set would work. On top of that, lots of Breloom sub first to scout the switch-in. I do commend you for your originality though^^
 
Acklow said:
Alright, you have several issues with your team. First off: you have no entry hazards. Entry hazards are a MUST for all successful teams. In order to be able to net kills, you've got to have some sort of hazard, because otherwise, you may not be able to hit hard enough. So my suggestion is, run Gliscor instead of Lucario. In doing so, you've just removed your Zapdos problem. It also helps you deal with Jirachi because the only thing she can do to you is Iron Head (if it's the paraflinch version, like you said). Plus it can set up Stealth Rock and Taunt slower leads. The set should look something like this:
Gliscor @ Leftovers
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
This should be able to take your problems. If you want, you can run Roost instead of Stone Edge, but Stone Edge allows you to deal with Zapdos. Toxic could work as well. Taunt takes out those pesky Baton Pass leads

Next you need to have something be able to actually sweep late game. Your Roserade isn't sufficient enough and that Metagross is only a burden. So replacing Metagross something like DD Dragonite or DD Tyranitar would make alot of sense. This way, you aren't making yourself a sitting duck when you're left with only Metagross. Plus, one mistake and your opponent just switched their Ghost into your Explosion (like Rotom-A). You could try an Agili-Gross instead, which can also explode, but can sweep as well. And since your Cresselia knows Sleep Talk, you shouldn't be worrying about Breloom at all (you just jump to your Cresselia if they bring out Breloom). That way you can jump back to Metagross and start setting up to sweep.

Hopefully these suggestions help you.

Oh: and also, pictures would certainly make this RMT much nicer looking.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, these are changes that do need to happen. The only bit I disagree with is the absolute necessity of entry hazards, as I can often get on just fine without them, but I do think that subbing Gliscor is a wonderful idea anyway as it deals with Zapdos very nicely. I will likely opt for Toxic over Stone Edge, preferring to depend on slight stalling rather than praying for Stone Edge not to miss. Having Gliscor eliminates the need for bomb-Gross, so he can then be replaced by DDTar, giving me a nice way to screw over Hail teams. I don't know about you, but in my experience Breloom will always, no matter what, Spore anything it can outrun first-turn, thus necessitating Sleep Talk to utilize Explosion.

And Shiny Azelf, the reason no other moves are there is because Sleep Talk would sometimes select them rather than the Explosion I need when asleep to surprise OHKO a sleep-happy Breloom, which is all of them. Also, I absolutely hate having to deal with any of the walls listed in its description as stuff it blows off the face of the planet on a regular basis, which massacres THEIR walls and paves the way for MY wall in the form of Cress.

As an aside, I created my account only yesterday, and so don't know how to post pictures.
 
Sorry about posting again, but if you want to solve your Anti-Zapdos problem, use a Choice Scarf Tyranitar. It can beat all offensive versions, and most defensive versions too. It forces Zapdos to Baton Pass as soon as possible if its a BP one.

Hope I helped.
 
ShinyAzelf said:
Sorry about posting again, but if you want to solve your Anti-Zapdos problem, use a Choice Scarf Tyranitar. It can beat all offensive versions, and most defensive versions too. It forces Zapdos to Baton Pass as soon as possible if its a BP one.

Hope I helped.
Click to expand...

No prob Shiny. I appreciate the advice. I am gonna stick with my Kingdra anyways though, since I like it quite a lot and it's great for Gyarados.
 
Hmm. That could happen, and in that case, how about putting Meteor Mash and Ice Punch? They're both going to do a ton of damage, and usually this is what happens:

Metagross switches in.
Breloom used Spore.

Breloom used Substitute.
Metagross used Sleep Talk.
Metagross used Explosion!
Breloom's Substitute faded.
Metagross fainted!

Thats why its not good to sacrifice your Metagross just to deal with Breloom. If you want a Breloom counter, try a Dragon Dance Dragonite. It's high Special Defense means it can take a few hits from Breloom, and it also resists both STAB attacks. Dragonite also deals with Zapdos to an extent because Thunderbolt is only a 3HKO, even from offensive versions (provided Stealth Rock is not on your field).

The set should be:

Dragonite @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 HP/52 Atk/204 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Dragon Claw/Outrage
-Earthquake
-Roost

Use Lum Berry if you're using Outrage, and also lets you directly switch in to Breloom and threaten it with Outrage. You could use Leftovers for more overall bulk, and with Roost means you can get a few Dragon Dances in and even sweep if the opponent does not have Skarmory.

Hope I helped.

Good luck!
 
I honestly don't see how you have a Breloom problem if you have a Restalking Cresselia. Just let that thing come in on Spore and take it. After that, you are free to bring in whatever you want, because Cresselia doesn't mind Spore at all.
 
I would also like to point out that many zapdos are packing hp ice (offensive versions) or they're packing toxic + sub + roost which means that both dragonite and gliscor are going to get stalled out by zapdos or OHKO'd by offensive versions since Zap outspeeds both of them (before a speed boost).

A much better zap counter is swampert although you do need to be weary of the versions running hp grass if you opt for swampert. scarfgon can be a pretty good check to zapdos (although not a hard counter as flygon fails to score a OHKO on zapdos if it's running jolly, even after SR damage, but can be threatened with HP ice).

Zapdos is hard to play around because it has a lot of natural bulk and can hit hard, but when trying to counter/check a certain pokemon I would avoid using things like draggy (which does not even resist T-bolt and has a SR weakness) or gliscor which are both potentially OHKO by a HP ice.

Swampert is a very solid option to counter Zapdos, as is TTar, and even potentially Jolteon.

I would also like to mirror the responses from the others that metagross (especially when you don't have a scarf or agility) is a horrible counter to breloom since it outspeeds you and will just sub as you switch into it, and then spore to which you'll be forced to either waste explosion on the sub, or switch out and have another poke take the spore. As already mentioned though you have cress with sleeptalk and rest already so breloom really shouldn't be an issue for you.

Gengar would make a very solid counter to breloom being immune to one STAB, and resisting the other, plus boasting enough speed to outrun and sub before getting hit by spore.

Just a couple things to consider.
 
Wow, it's been forever since I was on Smogon.

DarkVisions, I see now that I wasn't really clear on what I meant by a "Breloom counter." Here's what I actually mean, one of these two situations: either bomb-Gross takes the sleep at no personal cost, activates sleep clause, and trades his spot in the limelight for ye ole Cresselia who can Ice Beam until the cows don't yada yada yada; OR send in Metagross after a team loss and a Breloom just HAPPENS to be there waiting for me, which happens surprisingly commonly for me not because I sacrifice something to Breloom but because 1) Heatran just blew another Blissey out of the water or 2) I just lost somebody to Hail, Sandstorm, Destiny Bond, Toxic, etc., all that passive bullcrap. What I DID NOT mean (and what I wasn't clear about) is that Metagross can jump in on a switch during my turn rather than between turns to take the sleep, and then immediately explode on said Breloom.

Also Fat Acklow, I sometimes end up doing that when I don't have a choice, but I prefer to use Roserade for that, THEN switch to Cress. That way, I never waste a turn using Sleep Talk when I wake up or trying to use a normal move while still asleep, since opponent-induced sleep (as opposed to Rest-induced sleep) lasts for a variable number of turns.
 
I was just passing through when I noticed that you ran a pokemon just to stop Breloom. My favorite for that is Honchkrow. With Insomnia and Heat Wave, Breloom wont be a problem. Although then Zapdos gives you even more problems. And about entry hazards: you could run rocks on Metagross to help ruin Zapdos. Just some thoughts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top