Hi everyone!
I have been playing Ubers for some time now and after only using rain teams for a while, I finally decided that I wanted to make a sun team. Originally, I tried to build around Ho-Oh (whom I had wanted to try), but I think the rest of the team was too defensive and it had quite some problems with stall. So Giratina-O replaced Ho-Oh to block rapid spin and the team took an even more defensive turn; and I myself was back to stall, my preferred playstyle. Now, however, this team has more trouble with offense and I'm not quite sure how to cover this problem, so I hope to get some help here.
I'll skip the team building process, since I don't remember it too well.
The Team In-Depth
Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Fire Punch
Groudon sets up the sun as well as Stealth Rock, phazes and checks physical threats like Zekrom. I recently chose Roar over Dragon Tail since I also have DT on Giratina and wanted a 100% accurate move. Plus, substitutes are annoying. Fire Punch is intended for steels like Ferrothorn, but I have thought about replacing it with Thunderwave or something, since I have not used FP too often and my team is not the fastest. Also, Stone Edge could be an option against Ho-Oh but I hate it’s accuracy.
Maximum defense enables Groudon to better check Extremekiller-Arceus, for which I don't have a real counter. Also, 12 EVs for the ultimate speed creep.
Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
Forretress is really cool. I hadn't used it so far, but I definitely will more often in the future. Together with Groudon, it gives me all the entry hazards I need and rapid spin support to boot. But what makes it really cool, as far as I am concerned, is Volt Switch. To be able to grab momentum with such an otherwise predictable pokemon is awesome. It is especially useful against opposing stall teams. I just Volt Switch on the spin blocker, weakening it, and bring in something that can handle it or can take advantage of it.
Against offensive teams, however, I need to be very careful that nothing sets up on Forretress. Unfortunately, against offensive teams, I will also want to have Toxic Spikes up and this little bug usually does not get many opportunities to do that without allowing the opponent to set up.
Zekrom @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Dragon Claw
- Bolt Strike
- Hone Claws
I think SubZekrom is one of the biggest threats to rain stall which has become so popular. Few people expect this moveset and it can set up on one of the most common pokemon in rain, Ferrothorn. For example, if I Volt Switch on Giratina(-O) with Forretress, Zekrom can usually come in and set up a Substitute, since no one in his right mind would let Giratina stay in on Zekrom.
What I especially like about this set is that Hone Claws fixes the accuracy with Zekrom's strongest STAB, while making it even stronger. I chose Dragon Claw over Outrage since I don't like mind games at the end of which I might use Outrage on a steel pokemon and unnecessarily lose my substitute. (On the other hand, even a boosted DC does pitiful damage to Groudon.)
Zekrom is my most offensive team member and the EVs simply let him attack as fast and hard as possible.
Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 24 Def / 20 SDef / 100 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Tail
- Outrage
- Shadow Sneak
- Rest
Giratina-O is my spin blocker and second phazer. It's set is somewhat unusual and I was skeptical at first, but with Chansey as cleric, Rest can get quite annoying for the opponent. Unless, of course, he is running offense since I won't have time to heal bell or even rest. But to keep my spin blocker alive against stall teams can be crucial. Thanks to 1996ito for suggesting this Giratina, it has worked out quite well so far.
The EVs give it enough speed to outspeed everything that outspeeds base 70's with 1 point, and the attack grants a 2HKO on Mewtwo with Shadow Sneak after Stealth Rock damage. The rest goes into even defenses.
Shadow Sneak picks of frail sweepers and Dragon Tail gets STAB while phazing, which is nice. I use Outrage less often than the other two moves, but it can be really useful for example against slower versions of Ho-Oh or Kyogre.
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Softboiled
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Seismic Toss/Toxic
Chansey takes special hits from the likes of Kyogre and supports the team by heal belling and passing huge wishes. With maximum defense, it can also take random physical hits reasonably well. This set works all right, but I don't really know whether to keep Seismic Toss on it. It has the advantage of not making Chansey completely useless when facing taunt users and enabling it to hurt specially based Dialga and stuff, but another support move sure would be beneficial in some situations (such as against CM-Arceus).
Dialga @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SAtk / 208 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
I think I mainly chose Dialga as revenge killer because I was still frightened of Arceus-Normal. Groudon an Giratina can only phaze him and Arceus is bulky enough not to take too much damage by an Earthquake, so Dialga's resistance to Extreme Speed is most welcomed. Of course, the rest of his numerous resistances is useful, too.
The speed lets it outpace Deoxys-A, which is a huge threat. Speed tieing with other +1 base 90's didn't seem so important to me, so I dumped the remaining EVs into HP.
The problems...
I won't write a complete threat list, but just cover the pokemon I hate most.^^ For some of them I don't really have a plan, it's not just missing because I forgot it.
Arceus-Grass: This one is simply a pain to take down, especially in rain and might be one of the few reasons for which I would choose Outrage over Dragon Claw on Zekrom, so I could KO it more easily after enough residual damage. These resilient Arceus-formes are why I am considering Toxic on Chansey.
Arceus-Ground: It's rather rare, but it's on of the best counters to Zekrom as well as annoying/threatening in general.
Physical Arceus: My incredibly clever plan is not to let them set up/phaze and to steadily inflict damage until they are in KO range. Brilliant, I know. :/
CM-Arceus: Errr... Groudon can threaten Steel Arceus to a certain degree, but the rest of them really requires Toxic on Chansey to be beaten more or less reliably. Good thing I wrote this RMT; I didn't give the CM-versions too much thought, because I hardly encounter them at all.
CM-Arceus with refresh: When I see one of those I'm boned. They're really rare but I don't know what I would do against them, other than phazing. But since they carry Recover, they should be able to survive until the end.
Dialga: I don't have Perish Song on the team, so Bulk Up Dialga is very dangerous, and so are mixed BU-versions. Chansey can take on most special variants with ST. Otherwise, these would be terrifying, too.
Excadrill: The perfect counter to my Zekrom, and deadly in sand. Countering it mostly comes down to whether I win the weather war (no pun intended :D).
Garchomp: I hate that thing. Very much so. If it's choiced and I predict right, it's no problem, obviously. But then again it could be an SD-variant, perhaps even with Substitute. Against the latter, I need to bring in Groudon at once, otherwise it's more or less game over. Unfortunately, Groudon takes a lot of damage from a banded Outrage, so "countering" it is really stressful.
Ho-Oh: Yuk. If Stealth Rock isn't up, Ho-Oh is really frightening. I usually go to Giratina-O, but if it's a substitute user, I'm in trouble. Groudon has Roar, but he would have to live after a Sacred Fire to set up rocks again.
Mewtwo/Deoxys-A: One of them I can handle without too much trouble (provided I predict correctly). It's the combination of the two that is very threatening to me, especially when Mewtwo has (and sets up) CM and Deoxys has a focus sash. In that case, I will more often than not lose both Dialga and Giratina, unless I was able to break Deoxys' sash with Volt Switch from Forretress, lol.
T-Wave on Chansey could help against Mewtwo, but then what do I do against CM-Arceus?
Palkia: Mostly handled by Chansey, but should I ever encounter the SubPuncher I will lose at least one pokemon for every substitute it sets up.
Rayquaza: This team can handle all but DD-Rayquaza. Unfortunately, this is the most common version, and if it ever sets up, I’m in big trouble, since Dialga cannot revenge-kill it. If it comes in on Chansey or Forretress, I have probably lost already.
This is all I can think of right now. I have thought about Palkia as scarfer, but I haven't really had the time to test it yet. It could serve as a better fire-resistance and solves my Rayquaza problem.
Feedback is much appreciated; primarily about the team, but also about the readability of this RMT if you like, since I don't write much and I am not sure if should expand my explanations/improve my style/whatever.
Thanks for reading this. Fire away!
And if anyone cares, here's an importable
Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Fire Punch
Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
Zekrom @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Dragon Claw
- Bolt Strike
- Hone Claws
Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 24 Def / 20 SDef / 100 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Tail
- Outrage
- Shadow Sneak
- Rest
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Softboiled
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
Dialga @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SAtk / 208 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
Trait: Drought
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Fire Punch
Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
Zekrom @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Dragon Claw
- Bolt Strike
- Hone Claws
Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 24 Def / 20 SDef / 100 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Tail
- Outrage
- Shadow Sneak
- Rest
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Softboiled
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
Dialga @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SAtk / 208 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
