Monkey, Sun and Coconuts
I have been playing on and off with this team since March and it has been hovering around the 1300pts mark, sometimes rising over 1400, sometimes dropping down to 1200 on both Smogon and PO. It has been stuck at this level for months and I cannot seem to break into the top #100 despite getting to rank #116 and thereabouts on many occassions. What I'd really like is some thoughts on where this team could be improved or if it has come to the end of the line. Featuring a monkey, coconuts and plenty of sun, here is the team:
P.S. I noticed this is a ridiculously long RMT so I've included an italics section at the end of each Pokemon to sum it up if you can't be arsed to read it (which is entirely understandable). Also the Team Building and Team Strategy sections are optional, they give you an insight into the way the team works together.
TEAM BUILDING
I started playing 5th Gen in March and the first kind of team I wanted to try was Sun. This was down to Sunny Day being a fringe weather condition in 4th Gen so I really wanted to see if it was finally viable with Drought on its side. Ninetales was also one of my favourite Pokemon so I guess that had something to do with it as well!
With Nintales on the team I needed some solid Water, Ground and Rock resists to complement it. After playing with, and being immensely impressed by, a Multi-Scale Lugia in DW Ubers, I immediately tried Multi-Scale Dragonite to great success and put him on the team.
There was still a Rock weakness that needed to be addressed as well as a terrible Stealth Rock weakness. Plus Tyranitar was having a field day switching in to Ninetales. This was when I tried all kinds of Pokemon that could resist Rock, threaten Tar as well as Rapid Spin. Hitmontop, Hitmonlee, Donphan were all tried but they either didn't last long enough or their damage potential was disappointing. I gave up on trying to find the perfect match and in a bid to try out new 5th Gen Pokemon I tested out a balloon Terrakion. It fitted in great defensively but more than anything it was proving lethal as an attacking threat and that's when I knew it was in.
More defensive concerns set in and I felt I really needed to both set and prevent Stealth Rock which still hasn't been achieved. That's when I turned to Magic Bounce as another ability I really wanted to try. I chose Xatu over Espeon initially because it has better type synergy with Ninetales but what really clinched it was when I added Infernape as an SR-laying mixed wall breaker. It may sound outdated but together they create an awesome lead partnership as switching from Ape to Xatu is natural.
Now the team was almost complete but the most important slot still had to be filled: the Sun sweeper. At first I tried SD Sawsbuck and he was devastating against a lot of teams. So I stuck with him for a long time but his weakness to Mach Punch and his predictability made me doubt his place: essentially all he could do was switch in, SD and do physical damage which was practically an invitation for Skarmory to come and troll with Spikes (luckily I had Xatu to keep him at bay). I switched him for Shiftry to no effect before looking at all the Chlorophyll abusers in detail. Exeggutor was the only one with a very high offensive stat along with a good movepool that did not to be restricted by needing to set up. He has performed well so I have stuck with him ever since!
So essentially this was a collection of Pokemon that I was experimenting 5th gen sets with and that's how it ended up being the current team!
Close-up with the Critters
@Focus Sash (Blaze)
Naive; 252 Atk/4 SpAtk/252 Spe
Stealth Rock
Close Combat
Flamethrower/Overheat
Mach Punch/Flare Blitz
Naive; 252 Atk/4 SpAtk/252 Spe
Stealth Rock
Close Combat
Flamethrower/Overheat
Mach Punch/Flare Blitz
Infernape is in the lead spot I suppose because he is no stranger to it. Some people say that ‘leads’ are dead but I don’t think so. Some Pokemon are just natural to lead with and give you a fantastic advantage from the outset and Infernape is one of them. Stealth Rock is for residual damage and really helps in the inevitable weather wars. Close Combat threatens Tar and dents Politoed. Flamethrower is more reliable than Fire Blast to get rid of Ferro and his 4x Fire weak friends. Mach Punch is valuable priority with a favourable typing in this speed dominated game. With Focus Sash Infernape can sometimes put the opponent into an awkward position as well as activating Blaze.
The EVs allow him to hit Politoed as hard as possible with Close Combat, guaranteeing a 2HKO on all but max Def. variants (which I have never encountered yet). Scarf Toed can be beaten almost 100% of the time with CC followed by Mach Punch. Naïve is chosen as a nature because Ape can actually tank Bullet Punches pretty well if he has any health left.
Of course Infernape doesn’t always lead because sometimes it is better to let Xatu, Ninetales or even Terrakion (if it’s Ninjask) to take the lead spot. I also like to preserve Infernape for late game because a Blaze boosted STAB Flamethrower in the Sun is reliable and really does wreck things and he is a great wall breaker mid-game as well as a reliable late-game cleaner.
The other moveset I listed is a set I have been going back and forth on. I think I have settled on Flamethrower and Mach Punch for utility but boy does Overheat and Flare Blitz hurt things (even Tentacruel who gives this team problems). I keep switching between the two and I’m still not sure what is the best combination.
In a nutshell: Infernape’s job is to scare away Tyranitar and Politoed with Close Combat and set up SR. Infernape can break walls mid-game while Blaze and Sun boosted Flamethrower cleans up late-game. Mach Punch supports the team.
@Light Clay (Magic Bounce)
Tmid; 252 HP/4 SpDef/252 Spe
Reflect
Light Screen
Toxic
Thunder Wave
Tmid; 252 HP/4 SpDef/252 Spe
Reflect
Light Screen
Toxic
Thunder Wave
A dual screen double status set for Xatu. Against stronger Pokemon like Tyranitar this guy is a bit of a suicider but before he goes down he usually gives the team massive bulk to gain momentum with and possibly cripples a Pokemon or two. What really makes him shine is coming in on all the troublesome walls, stallers and annoyers because they really can’t do anything to him and he can begin setting up safely.
Thunder Wave can surprise Pokemon like the Latis while Toxic can give me the edge in the long struggle with Toed and Tyranitar. While this Xatu set may look like Taunt bait of the century, his ability means that the only one doing any Taunting is Xatu.
I guess an important point to discuss is why choose Xatu instead of Espeon. Xatu has better type synergy with Fire Pokemon and the rest of the team, especially Infernape, being able to come in on Earthquake, Psychic and Mach Punches that threaten Sashed Ape while he can scare away Dark types or handle an Ice Beam for him. Xatu also has better physical bulk and with screens he is actually quite hard to take down. Xatu also fares better against popular wall/utility ‘mons such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Donphan. Access to Thunder Wave was probably what clinched the deal.
Of course this Xatu really struggles to stay alive and is usually the Pokemon I sac to get screens up and start attacking with Terrakion or Dragonite. Roost is an option to keep him alive but he really misses the double status or screens. I also used to use Psychic which could dent some Pokemon like Gliscor and allowed me to defeat Conkeldurr easily who is now a problem for the team, but Psychic was just a little bit unnecessary I felt.
In a nutshell: Xatu’s screens swings early game momentum in my favour while crippling something with status in the process. He is a good switch in to most stallers and walls and can’t be Taunted, enabling it to support a sweep. However lack of recovery means he doesn’t last long.
@Choice Scarf (Drought)
Modest; 16 HP/252 SpAtk/240 Spe
Fire Blast
Toxic
Safeguard
Solarbeam
Modest; 16 HP/252 SpAtk/240 Spe
Fire Blast
Toxic
Safeguard
Solarbeam
This is a speedier version of Ninetales that I played around with and for good or for bad I didn’t change it. It really doesn’t mind the Choice item at all because when I first started out playing with Ninetales I found that I was switching in and out almost instantly as Tyranitar and Toed love to come in to spoil your party. This is where Toxic comes in because it is easy to switch Ninetales into a Scizor or Ferrothorn and, because nobody in their right mind would keep those in against Tales, you can get a nice Toxic in on their main Fire resist. The Scarf can be bluffed because you only get to see its effect when you stay in against something and Ninetales never stays in unless it is attempting a game ending sweep – the time the opponent knows it’s Scarfed is when it has already KOed the enemy Jolteon, Gengar or other fast threat and it is too late.
Safeguard is a strange move to use on a choiced set but Dragonite and Terrakion both benefit from the safety it provides. Many Pokemon such as Jellicent, Sigilyph or Chansey only have status to threaten set up sweepers and when you remove that it makes life much easier. (Switch in, Safeguard on the enemy switch, switch in Dragonite on the Scald and start setting up.) Solarbeam catches Starmie off guard but it is really situational and can only be used when you are sure the enemy will not change the weather.
I found Scarf Ninetales was a good late-game sweeper but I am still unsure about its item or its set because Specs would hit a lot harder and while it’s good to get the jump on Starmie and friends with Scarf I’m not entirely convinced myself that Ninetales needs to be so speedy. I am seriously considering a Specs set.
In a nutshell: Jumps on most >110 Base Speed Pokemon and devours them. Requires prediction but with Ninetale’s threatening STAB Fire attacks that is usually no problem. Safeguard supports the set up sweepers. Damage output is sometimes disappointing so considering changing to Specs.
@Leftovers (Multi-Scale)
Adamant; 244 HP/48 SpDef/216 Spe
Dragon Dance
Roost
Dragon Claw
Brick Break
Adamant; 244 HP/48 SpDef/216 Spe
Dragon Dance
Roost
Dragon Claw
Brick Break
Dragonite is probably the most dangerous player on the team. He is EV’d to be hard to take down and this guy probably gets the most kills out of anyone. He doesn’t mind what weather is up, he offers fantastic defensive support to the team and Roost allows him to come in to the same threats again and again. Obviously Stealth Rock destroys him so if I sense the opponent is about to lay SR I will often send this guy in for a free switch and attempt a sweep for the hell of it. Dragon Claw is his main attack and Brick Break offers perfect neutral coverage as well as destroying Heatran and Tar and still hits Ferro for good damage.
Dragon Dance and Roost allows him to take advantage of a great ability, Multi-Scale, and with Dragonite’s bulk he can always get one DD, and with the help of Roost, often two or three. Once he has two under his belt he outspeeds ScarfChomp and with three he outspeeds all weather abusers so it can often be game over for the opponent.
Quagsire is a huge threat to Dragonite, threatening Burn and defensive boosting to invincibility. Thankfully Exeggutor is a 100% counter to Quaggy. Jirachi is also a pain because Brick Break needs to be at +2 or more to threaten a 2HKO. Skarmory again threatens to troll with Spikes but Xatu trolls him right back. Mamoswine ends Dragonite with Ice Shard unless I am at full health. All these threats are weak to the rest of the team, especially in Sun so Dragonite is well supported. Scarf Latis would be a problem but they are never seen thankfully.
The EVs give him a Leftovers number, lets him outspeed ScarfChomp at +2 and the rest is in Special Defence to help it survive a Specs Draco Meteor from Latios. In terms of bulk, at full health Dragonite will almost always survive a Specs Draco Meteor from Latios and takes 62% max from Scarf Chomp Outrage.
In a nutshell: Bulky Dragonite likes to dance and once he starts he’s hard to stop. His 100% counters all happen to be weak to Sun team members which is convenient. He tanks hits for Ninetales and Roosts until he feels the time is right to start dancing.
@Life Orb (Chlorophyll)
Modest; 24 Def/252 SpAtk/232 Spe
Giga Drain
Hidden Power (Fire)
Sleep Powder
Ancient Power
Modest; 24 Def/252 SpAtk/232 Spe
Giga Drain
Hidden Power (Fire)
Sleep Powder
Ancient Power
Eggy here wooed me with his Base 125 SpAtk and he is the special sweeper tasked with punching holes in the enemy team. The only really bad stat he had, and the only one holding him back from becoming a top-tier special sweeper, was his Speed and Sun fixes that. Despite the low Base Powers of the moves he carries he still hits extremely hard and the fact he can hit 9 types super effectively helps too. A decent Defence stat and a resistance to Mach Punch and Aqua Jet definitely helps, he is weak to Ice Shard however.
Exeggutor still gets walled by Blob (Blissey) and Blob Jr (Chansey). While the blobs are generally no problem for the team, he is threatened big time by two of the most dangerous threats in the game: Heatran and the dreaded Lati twins... However Exeggutor has a good weapon in Sleep Powder which gives him a 75% 'check' to these threats. In fact it can be considered a good thing that Exeggutor lures these two because if they came in on anyone else then I'm looking at a world of pain while Exeggutor can neutralise them and either switch or simply muscle past them with Ancient Power.
The EVs give Exeggutor max SpAtk while outspeeding max speed Scarf Heracross, Electrode and friends. The Def EVs allow him to cushion blows from Garchomp, Gliscor and co. Giga Drain hits hard with or without Sun, 2HKOing Gliscor, Garchomp, Jellicent, Conkeldurr and Tyranitar in Sand and if they come in on a neutral attack then it will be an OHKO on the next turn. Solarbeam would turn all of those into 1HKOs (barring Tyranitar) but the reliability of Giga Drain and the healing is really hard to pass up. HP Fire is a 2HKO on SpDef Jirachi in Sun. Ancient Power 2HKOs Dragonite after Stealth Rock. The evil Calm Mind Latias is a 100% counter though and will need to be put asleep or else it’ll have to be checked by Dragonite. Pokemon with weaker defensive stats are promptly 1HKOed with the appropriate attack, none more so than 4x weaknesses such as Volcarona, Ferrothorn and Scizor.
In a nutshell: Exeggutor comes in to annoy the opponent early game with Sleep Powder. Giga Drain keeps him healthy. Fantastic coverage lets him sweep, but Chansey causes grief as does Heatran and Lati@s.
@Air Balloon (Justified)
Adamant; 48 HP/252 Atk/204 Spe
Rock Polish
Swords Dance
Close Combat
Rock Slide
Adamant; 48 HP/252 Atk/204 Spe
Rock Polish
Swords Dance
Close Combat
Rock Slide
Using Terrakion for the first time was nothing short of a revelation. The sheer offensive power of this guy is breath-taking and after a Swords Dance even counters such as Gliscor and Physically Defensive Skarmory are in 2HKO range. Specially Defensive Skarmory is a clean OHKO with Stealth Rock. However at first I used a max Speed EV spread to take advantage of his great speed tier but after a while I found this unnecessary. Most of the time I was playing him like a choice bander, switching in and threatening something before switching out again. I also found that the Latis loved to switch in, outspeed and spam DM or Psyshock. I chose Rock Slide over Stone Edge because after a Swords Dance the power difference has been unnoticeable so far and the 20% chance to lose with Stone Edge is just ridiculous.
I changed his EVs to max Atk to reflect the way I play him and gave him enough speed to beat max Speed Excadrill. This one small change transformed him and he is much more efficient at dealing damage now and he only really needs to set up Rock Polish late-game to finish the job. The Pokemon he needs Swords Dance to hit, such as Gliscor, Jellicent and co. are still outsped so he loses none of his utility while gaining more power with his new EV spread.
Bulk Up Conkeldurr makes Terrakion cry and is a huge nuisance to my team, especially Payback variants, but if he doesn’t set up too much then Ninetales and Exeggutor can survive a Mach Punch and either KO with Fire Blast or Giga Drain or else Sleep him. Scizor can easily end Terrakion’s sweep but he can’t switch in safely and Ninetales and Ape can scare Scizor while Exeggutor is a good check. Azumarrill is a problem but Sun helps along with Terrakion’s good bulk and Exeggutor is as good as any at countering the lardy, blue muscle blob. The Lati twins remain a recurring nightmare but chipping away at them throughout the game and then coming in later and using Rock Polish can lead to a successful sweep. Terrakion also thrives in the sand, being able to shrug off a Specs DM from Latios, so if sand is up I try to abuse it.
In a nutshell: Terrakion deals copious amounts of damage to everything while being extremely threatening to most sand teams. He can soften up targets if played like a choice bander while having game ending moves in Swords Dance and Rock Polish. Since he can often smash his way through defensive threats, it’s the faster offensive threats that give him problems.
Team Strategy and Threats
As you may have noticed, the team is pretty weak defensively, with nothing to take powerful Dragon attacks and the closest thing to a wall or a tank is Dragonite, who also happens to be my main sweeper. So I guess I’ll talk a little about how the team fits together and how it deals with offensive threats.
The main idea behind this team is to try to build up an overwhelming offensive pressure on the enemy team as soon as possible. I guess really it’s a variant of Heavy Offence with less dragons and magnets. Infernape dents anything not named Tentacruel or Jellicent and with Focus Sash he can often threaten the KO which puts my opponent on the back foot. From there it is a matter of switching to Xatu to set up screens, then Ninetales to get the Sun up and Dragonite, Exeggutor and Terrakion can take the reins from there. Dragonite has Multi-Scale and Dragon Dance to overcome speedier threats; Exeggutor has access to Sleep Powder for the few Pokemon that can afford to switch into him; and Terrakion threatens to destroy walls with Swords Dance or destroy teams with Rock Polish. All the while Reflect and Light Screen are likely to be up and Dragonite and Terrakion really couldn’t care what weather is up. In fact the opponent switching to change the weather can often give me the free turn needed to set up. At this early stage usually enough holes are punched into the enemy team that the game can be played out in my favour.
Games don’t always end up like this of course and these are the threats that can cause serious problems.
Lati@s – This pair of special attacking monsters makes the whole team cry. It is not a joke when I say I almost always have to sac something to threaten them. But because Dragon Pulse doesn’t do enough to Terrakion, and Draco Meteor lets my Dragonite set up, Choice Spec sets are usually fine to deal with. It’s the Calm Mind Substitute Latias set that really destroys this team. Behind a Substitute even Dragonite cannot defeat it and I will need screens up to have a chance against it. If CM Latias wasn’t so rare then this team would have been trashed long ago…
Haxorus – This time the threat is a physical dragon and he is in some ways even more threatening because Mold Breaker renders Dragonite useless. Again I will almost always have to sac something to defeat it. Once I know its set it becomes much more manageable because LO and Band sets are outsped by Ape, Tales and sometimes even Xatu. If I can somehow get a Reflect up this monster becomes less scary. Scarf sets are what gives this team grief because with no screens, two to three Pokemon are guaranteed to die. However if the opponent leads with Scarf Haxorus then Ape can CC then Mach Punch for the kill, and if the opponent brings it in later then hopefully I will already have screens up or one of my Pokemon will have set up and can outspeed. Hence why it is not as big a threat as the Latis.
Garchomp – As long as sand is not falling then all variants of Garchomp have some weakness that can be exploited but it will still hurt. Non-Scarfed versions are outsped by Ape and Exeggutor and Scarfed versions can’t deal enough damage to Dragonite, Exeggutor or Terrakion. Although an SDer behind a Sub will most likely force me to sac something but it’s usually a 1 for 1 which is manageable. In sand, fighting the Sub SD Chomp is a coin toss at best and if it drags on over more than one or two turns the odds are in their favour. Yeah so Ninetales must switch in even to an Earthquake to prevent the game ending there and then which is not ideal.
(It may have crossed your mind what happens if all three dragons are on the one team. <cough> 6-0 <cough> Let’s just say the results are not good…)
Reuniclus – Calm Mind Reuniclus is not too bad, usually I can Paralyse it with Xatu and Dragonite can get up to +3 and sweep. Trick Room variants are a pain and if Light Screen isn’t up then it can destroy a large portion of the team. If Light Screen is up then it can be 2HKOed, possibly sacrificing something in the process. I'm glad that the vast majority are the CM variety.
Tentacruel – Yeah this thing almost walls my whole team, almost. Before I put Safeguard on Ninetales, Tentacruel can just sit there Scalding stuff while I can do next to nothing. Now though Dragonite has the perfect opportunity to set up when it is busy laying Toxic Spikes and Scald can’t Burn him with Safeguard up. What a relief. If it's late-game and Ninetales and Exeggutor are dead then it could well wall my whole team.
Quagsire – Since most of my strategy relies on sacrificing something to let Dragonite or Terrakion set up, Quagsire is quite a neat counter. While Terrakion can try to push past it if Quag has already taken damage, Dragonite must flee. Exeggutor laughs at Quagsire though and there is always Toxic on Xatu and Solarbeam on Ninetales. It helps that Quag can’t do too much damage. If Exeggutor, Ninetales and Xatu are all dead then I really wouldn't have an answer to this thing. I'm glad that situation has never happened yet.
Heatran – The bane of any Sun team and can come in on Exeggutor or Ninetales to cause havoc. Luckily I have three Pokemon that can outspeed with Fighting attacks and Xatu can cripple with Thunder Wave if he decides to come in.
Politoed – The most threatening of the weather changers for me because Specs hurts even in Sun and Scarf is surprising. Luckily most people keep their Toed in against Infernape and Close Combat can put them on the backfoot. Rest variants can be a problem but Exeggutor has the power to OHKO. It’s not Toed that is the problem though it’s the Pokemon he supports. Jirachi, Bronzong, Ferrothorn and Scizor are all piece of cake in Sun but are invincible in the rain.
Tyranitar – It wouldn’t be right not to include this guy but the team as a whole has so many ways to threaten him that he rarely finds a chance to switch in. If he switches in on Xatu then I get screens and the momentum is mine. If he switches in to Ninetales then he risks a Toxic. Terrakion also loves the sand he brings and Dragonite doesn’t really care about anything. Often it’s a good thing when I see Tar on the enemy team because Terrakion usually does well against 5 out of 6 members. The 6th is usually Latios though so it's not as straight forward as a clean sweep…
A note on the weather:
It may seem strange that I am using Ninetales when only one Pokemon, Exeggutor, gets a huge boost from it. Infernape and Ninetales gets an STAB boost on their Fire attacks while Terrakion loses his Water weakness but in many ways the team does not seem to need Sun.
While my team doesn't benefit greatly from having Sun up, I find it absolutely essential that the opponent's weather is not up. Garchomp is manageable without sand, Excadrill becomes a waste of space and I stop taking residual damage. Thus sand teams are much easier to deal with.
It is not sand that is usually the problem though, it is rain. Often rain teams use Pokemon such as Jirachi, Bronzong and Toxicroak who are pretty much invincible in the rain and these Pokemon happen to suffer a lot in the Sun. 100% accurate Thunders and Hurricanes are not pretty either especially when there are the perfect Pokemon out there to abuse it. At the end of a battle with a rain team it is possible to tell the outcome of the battle by just seeing which weather condition is up. It is funny because rain teams are very risky in that they are invincible in rain but without rain they can suffer a lot. So Ninetales' inclusion is often not to give me an advantage but to take away the opponent's advantage. The most successful members of the team, Dragonite and Terrakion, also happen to not mind what weather condition is up so that helps a lot.
Thank you!
I'd like to thank you for reading and I'd appreciate your comments. I'm open to changing any member of the team: is Ninetales even necessary? Can Infernape and Xatu be replaced as a partnership? Is there a better Sun sweeper than Exeggutor? I'd love to hear your thoughts!
