A war of attrition: Bulky attacking team.

[silenced]

Uh, so first post.

So I recently decided to try out the battle simulator online, because I'm far too lazy IRL to train up a team of LV 100 pokemon, even though I enjoy the games. However, I'm rather behind the times (still haven't got B/W yet or B/W2) and only started playing 4th gen, so I'm getting myself up to speed through the site.

Anyways, I find the battle simulator much more fun, but enough rambling.

The idea I had behind this team was to make a set of bulky pokemon who can take hits for each other, who don't mind entry hazards too much and can retaliate hard in return, or repeatedly force switches and rack up status or large chunks of damage in the process until I grind my opponent down.

The team will probably seem contradictory to some, but its only my first attempt, so that wouldn't surprise me.

The team

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Nidoqueen @Leftovers
Poison Point
192 HP, 16 ATK, 252 DEF, 46 SPD
Impish (+Def, -SpA)
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock
-Dragon Tail
-Protect

Where possible, I try to use this as my lead. Although incredibly gimmicky, I have found it to be reasonably effective in tanking physical hits as part of my main defensive core with its nice resists. Ideally, I'd set up SR and then start using dragon tail, so as to bypass taunt users if I suspect them. Since I want it to switch pokes with the damaging dragon tail, I opted against sheer force to run it physically, so that dragon tail deals decent damage, as well as being able to break grounded subs with EQ. Protect is a nice scouting move against scarf pokes and a pain in the backside to fake-out users. As gimmicky as poison point is, it has proved useful, as is a pain for physical attackers who rely on leftovers and adds an element of risk to rapid spin. Mainly for nidoqueen, I'd like to fix the EV's, as the atk and spd are just random (think I might just throw them into spd). HP is to hit the nearest leftovers number as recommended by the site.

EDIT: Gimmick Nidoqueen has now been replaced by zapdos

Zapdos @Leftovers
Pressure
192 HP, 252 DEF, 64 SPE
Bold (+Def, -Atk)
-Thunderbolt
-Heat Wave
-Roost
-Roar

Though I'm still in the initial stages of testing zapdos, I do love its bulk, phazing, healing and ability to hurt other pokes very badly despite no special attack investment. The SR weakness does annoy me greatly, but this team is fast morphing into an aggresive semi-stall (best wording I can think of) and zapdos is performing its role well. The only main problem of this is that losing it early hurts me against set up sweepers, particularly those that can masquerade as either sweepers or just hit hard straight out (e.g snorlax, kingdra).
EV's maximise defense while hitting the nearest lefties number, with the rest going into speed, though I'm not sure that is overly necessary...

Porygon2 @Eviolite
Trace
252HP, 252 SPD, 4SPA
Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
-Toxic
-Recover
-Discharge
-Ice beam

Standard stalling porygon2 tank. I've maximised it in SpD to take the special hits zapdos would prefer not to. Thanks to trace, its a hard counter to chandelure taking both STABS easily, leaving it with HP fighting at best, and allowing me to fire off toxic when it switches. Additionally, it helps to stall out seed flares from shaymin. Otherwise, spam toxic and recover, as well as the odd attack or if I need discharge hax. Depending on what people think I should do to fix my team, I may need to change the EV spread a bit. Otherwise this should be fine for me.

Slowbro @Choice Specs
Regenerator
154 HP, 252 SPA, 102 DEF
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
-Scald
-Fire Blast
-Psyshock
-Trick

Choice specs slowbro. Designed to blast holes when possible, and switch. Alongside Zapdos and porygon2, This makes my defensive core. zapdos takes dark/fighting attacks, Porygon2 takes just about all special attacks (sometimes even focus blast if I encounter it) and slowbro takes the physical attacks zapdos cannot take. Basically, when in doubt, launch scalds. If desperate, I can also use trick to incapacitate stall walls too. Unless I need to switch slowbro for another pokemon, I don't think I need to change anything here...maybe. 154HP hits a regenerator and a leftovers number, in case I trick a leftovers onto it, as crippling tanks with choice specs has been a godsend in several battles, while the extra def ev's allow it to be an agressive defender as part of the core (got the idea somewhat from the mixed core posted in the UU cores section)

Roserade @Black sludge
Natural Cure
176 HP, 144 DEF, 108 SPD, 80 SPA
Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
-Sleep powder
-Toxic Spikes
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb

Was the other special tank of my team. Now the role has changed to spiking and crippling through the use of toxic and sleep powder. Sleep powder has been invaluable as of late, crippling nasty threats such as togekiss who would otherwise cause great problems (silly people switching togekiss on my roserade) . Even with minimal investment, Roserade can hit rather hard. Natural cure is important to stop sableye from having too much fun against my team, as well as other nasty status inflictors. Sludgebomb gets the last slot as there are few steels in UU that cannot be checked by other teammates, while the 30% poison rate can be rather useful. Sludgebomb also gives me a nice offensive option against Shaymin too, whereas porygon stalls more, even with minimal SpA investment.

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
252 ATK, 252 Spe, 4 SPD
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
-Earthquake
-U-turn
-Outrage
-Aerial Ace

Late game cleanup or dangerous threat remover. Originally I tried a mix-scarf but abandoned that after finding that without enough atk it actually failed to kill chandelures :( Adamant is chosen for more power, as I think it can still outspeed +1 DD kingdra (although problem is I don't trust my prediction skills to get it in safely...). Fire punch now dropped for aerial ace, as apparently the damage calculations reckon fire punch does not KO scarf moxie heracross (just as well earthquake and outrage do a stelllar job as STAB attack moves or I'd be very annoyed)

Cobalion @ Expert Belt
44 ATK, 232 SPA, 232 SPE
Naive (+Spe, -SpD)
-Close Combat
-Hidden Power Ice
-Stealth Rock
-Volt Switch

Changed Cobalion from a physical utility to a mixed wall-breaking threat that can also lay down hazards. EV spread allows it to outrun positive natured base 105 speed pokemon, while the rest are split across the two attack stats. Credit to the Creative movesets thread in the OU forums as I stole it from there, and modified the EV's with the extra 20 speed ones placed into the two attack stats instead since I'm not interested in speed ties with other jolly cobalion. Switch ins are in a lot more danger of being 2HKO'd if I predict correctly or after too much prior damage, while the switches I force allow me to set up SR as I please. With volt switch, I can form a small volt-turn core with flygon and allow safe switch ins to answers to cobalion (particularly specs slowbro). HP ice creates a Pseudo bolt-beam while also being threatening to pokemon who would otherwise try to switch in to cobalion and cause havoc (e.g nidoking, claydol looking to spin, gligar walls). Close combat is just a decent STAB, although I haven't ruled out sacred sword entirely as I'd hate to see curselax cause terror for my team...

Problems
-Asides from idiotic decisions being really costly (In terms of prediction), there are two main problems my team has. Firstly, weavile is a very big problem if cobalion gets killed or weavile grabs a SD boost. Sadly scarf flygon dies to ice-shard so I have no good answer. I'm now considering toxi-stall with P2 but I need some ideas for EV's to be switched to Def, so any help there would be appreciated (or any other idea)

Secondly, Boosting pokemon are still troublesome. While SubCM raikou appears to have vanished, DD kingdra I find hard VERY hard to predict around now. If zapdos dies early, the problem becomes much worse, if not fatal in terms of any boosting kingdra...Otherwise, any combination of scarf flygon, or status generally fixes this problem.

Thirdly, Too many spike layers are not fun to deal with, though I find I can predict well enough to beat spiking roserade to a pulp without too many layers going up, Frosslass can be beaten by my volt-turn core, although a well predicted ice-beam could mess that up very badly...Otherwise my team doesn't mind SR too much, either recovering off the damage or resisting it, while toxic spikes won't go up until late given I have an absorber of it, which I would preserve heavily for it.

Otherwise, I enjoy using it. Its certainly a great mental exercise trying to outpredict and outswitch my pokemon to beat my opponents (How old I sound saying that...) It does seem bad, but I guess prediction has helped me greatly when I win (and it feels good to win by outwitting an opponent, moreso than a sweep I feel)

Fixes
-Something else to take care of set up sweepers. I don't think zapdos can do this alone, especially not when I'm up against teams containing multiple sweepers
-EV fixes, particularly Roserade and P2. I have no idea how I got to the EV's I have now with roserade. P2 depends on whether it becomes a risky weaville check or not. Additionally, any EV suggestions for cobalion would be nice too.

So If anyone can help me, that'd be great :)
Also, anyone able to help me add pictures in, that'd also be great.

Edits
Changed EV's for the following
-Cobalion
-Roserade
-Slowbro

Changed the following pokemon
-Nidoqueen for Zapdos

Changed movesets for
-Roserade
-Cobalion
-Flygon

 

[ticklegrowth]

This looks like a good balanced team in general, there is just some nit-picking to do.

First of all, a semi-stall team generally has more entry hazards than this, and with your dragon tail using Nidoqueen, I would recommend using roserade with toxic spikes or spikes. As a sub seed pokemon, it also seems to be outclassed by an overall bulky shaymin, who has access to natural cure as well and STAB seed flare. if you dislike it because it is legendary, fine, but then I would use lilligant for a special sweeper role, or sceptile. My roserade's set on an OU team is this:

Roserade @ focus sash
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe

-Sleep Powder
-Rest
-Leaf Storm
-Toxic Spikes

I like it because it almost always gets two layers of toxic spikes on the field, and incapacitates an opponent with sleep powder. Leaf Storm hits really hard, and rest abuses natural cure. On a semi-stall team like this, toxic spikes are so useful, and you can spread them around with dragon tail on Nido Q.

Slowbro seems to me to be outclassed by slowking, who runs almost the same set. The difference is that slowking can beat both physical and special sweepers, with innate special bulk, and scald to burn physical pokemon. You may not be aware, but if you don't run a choice specs, dragon tail is available for phazing. the annoying thing is that dragon tail against a substitute won't force the switch, so roar is often chosen on a pokemon that gets both.Also, you seem not to have a spinner, and in many stall team, losing a lot of health simply by switching in may cost you the game. Possibly switching slowbro for blastoise, which has even better all round bulk, would work. Another option is Swampert, like you you set, for a curse set, or just pure physical tanking with roar for phazing.

With cobalion, a reason why it is so good is that it has so many options. It looks like a physical set is most well suited to your team, so calm mind is eliminated. Sacred sword also decimates curse-lax, which close combat often can't do, so that sounds good. This set could be replaced with a swords dance set, replacing volt switch with set up. You have a lot of status floating around, with poison point, scald, toxic and now thunder wave, so something like togekiss might get hit by poison or burn rather than being paralyzed. A lot of togekiss teams also have a cleric like roserade to eliminate this. Also, cobalion does outspeed it anyway, as its base speed is only 80, and can hit it hard with an iron head. Maybe you could replace that with substitute, which helps against dragon tail, status and makes setting up a lot easier. taunt is another option to annoy froslass, among other pokemon. With great defence, a quad resistance to stealth rock and an immunity to toxic spikes, it can come in on most physical attacks with ease, making it a great late game sweeper. Therefore, eliminate ground, fire and fighting types early on so as to rip teams to shreds after a turn of set up. it also can run a defensive set withh substitute, taunt, roar and volt switch, if you feel up to it.

With weavile, hitmontop works as an amazing check (with intimidate and mach punch/close combat/bullet punch), and you could use a spinner anyway, so if you would replace maybe flygon with it, that could work. Your call though, but I think that flygon might not be used as much as you would hitmontop.

DD kingdra does look like a prominent threat, I guess ferroseed is the only pokemon to counter both well, and can work well as a spiker. You could replace rosrade with it with a set like this:

Ferroseed @ eviolite
Nature: Sassy (+ SpD, -Spe)
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD

-Spikes
-Thunder Wave
-Leech Seed
-Gyro Ball/ Bullet Seed

Spikes are self-explanatory, T-wave means cobalion doesn't need it, and checks weavile and opposing cobalion. leech Seed gives it pseudo-recovery, and gyro ball uses its abyssmal speed while bullet seed breaks subs and hits bulky waters. Unfortunately, its offensived stats are bad, and its HP lets down its eviolite wielding capabilities.


Ideas:

Replace Roserade with ferroseed
Replace slowbro with slowking or curse-pert?
Give cobalion SD and substitute set
replace Flygon with defensive hitmontop, or possibly technitop

All of my ideas make the team more stally than it is already, but if you want to keep it semi-stall, that's fine too.

 

[silenced]

Sorry It's taken so long for me to respond to this.

I've tried a few of the fixes you've suggested, but it seems I'm running into problems without the power of specs slowbro, particularly against bronzong...Also swampert appears to have poor synergy with the rest of the team, even though this should not be the case.

While I like the cobalion idea, I just find all my subs get broken too often, which I tried before I made a cross between utility and power (perhaps it was just the opponents I was against).

The roserade set is interesting, but UU is fast becoming anti-spikes, either due to spinners or the poison types who absorb toxic spikes (especially given my team lacks a ghost pokemon). Also I dislike it being a forced lead due to the focus sash reliance, as I preferred the longevity of my team over sacrificial set up, or being forced to switch outside of choice usage.

My team needs slowbro's defense more than slowkings SpD, IMO. Something has to take weaker EQ's, ice punch and waterfall, and I already have 2 good special walls.

Not tried ferroseed, but the main problem I forsee already is that my team would then be in trouble against sableye and Prankster status without roserade to absorb it. Nidoqueen, flygon and cobalion hate burn, all hate sleep (other pokes), and toxic is really bad for porygon2.

I've been trying to make other changes myself, but perhaps I need to change movesets on other pokes, or get a priority user in...Thanks for the ideas though, even if they have not worked out for me...

 

[silenced]

Okay, made changes to the team, as specified in Bold, or hidden.

Also, thanks for the toxic spiking roserade Idea ticklegrowth, as the combination of the crippling status combined with the original roserade set has helped much more now.