The next post will be in a few days. Just gonna ramble about some more sets on certain mons on before going to the topic such as
- Utilize Hidden Power more
- Taking Toxic + Sub(not necessarily in same mon) combo to the next level
- Perhaps some cores that I never quite completed
- other stuff(most likely not bc I don't want it to become too random and boring tbh)
Continuing from here, I'll go through other Hidden Power types I've used, ranging from the most useful to niche ones I've used. Why do you ask? It's because I think Hidden Power is unutilized even today, and it's not documented as well to the public. The only way you would get any info on them would be by asking me, Naere, or other ADV LC players, but not all of us share the same opinions or have equal knowledge on it. So I decided to make this so you will get some understanding of how I use Hidden Power in this tier. I'll go through why it's used, who uses the moves, and the drawbacks of using it. This will let you quickly figure out each one's EV Spread, as Hidden Power can often determine the Pokémon's EV Spreads. I hope this will help you create something new that no one else has done yet.
Before I begin, there's a skill check that every new player has to learn and adapt, and that is the default IV spread the teambuilder recommends isn't always right or optimal at all. The biggest example is Hidden Power Bug, default runs 31/30/30/31/30/31, which is inferior to 31/31/31/31/30/30. There are certain IV Spreads that would cover up your desired EV spread that the default does not. Make sure you double-check before the match, especially if you're changing the moves in order, or paste it in the Smogtours teambuilder. I think this issue is frustrating to encounter every time, and I'll report this if there is something to do with this issue. In meanwhile though, I'll post an image on EV+IV spreads of the one that fits the description of the Pokémon. To find the IVs changer, I'll post a screenshot below where you can find it in the teambuilder.
Hidden Power Ground
It's used against the Electric Types, most notably Chinchou and Magnemite, due to their unique defensive typing, synergizing well with Substitute. But I do think Hidden Power Ground is overrated, as there are better ways to approach the two I mentioned above. But sometimes you just want to gain an upper hand vs Electric types, or your team cannot afford to use other mons to handle them. Most of them are Special Attackers over Physical Attackers in comparison, despite Ground being a physical move.
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Grouping these since both of them have similar purposes as Electrics are the best at switching vs opposing Electric types lol. Elekid's drawback is that it can't use Substitute and Thief at the same time, as Ice Punch + Tbolt are mandatory IMO. Elekid doesn't have any changes on EV Spread besides adding 12 atk EVs to gain one point, but you can argue about its nature. Hasty lets you 2hko Chinchou, but you become more vulnerable vs opposing 20 Electrics Tbolt into HP Ground, while Timid helps avoid that but has a nasty 45-55% roll vs Chinchou.
Voltorb gets hard-walled by Lileep, and there's conflict on deciding either Thief, Sub, or Toxic on Voltorb. There's also that you're vulnerable to trapping despite having Explosion, so I always prefer using Trapinch along with HP Ground Voltorb. As for Natures, Voltorb can afford running Timid or Hasty, though if you somehow had HP Ground + Rain Dance, then Hasty or Jolly even is preferred. Timid also wants Voltorb to have 36 Atk EVs so it 2HKOs Elekid. As for EV Spreads, I recommend these
spreads so you don't need to make one.
Lileep uses this mainly to bypass Magnemite, but honestly, that's a good reason enough to use it as Lileep is also a strong Electric check under in right circumstances. You don't need to change the EV Spreads as it has enough EV points to fill out the 30 IVs slots. The huge drawback with it is that you're losing 1v1 vs Lileep and becoming setup fodder vs Bagon and Snubbull. Still, if your team can handle those mons and you want to force as much progress as possible, this is recommended.
If you've watched my games from LPL and LCBC, you know I've abused HP Ground Gastly to pressure Electrics, especially Magnemite and Chinchou. However, I've decreased my usage of it because I find HP Ground being too high a commitment to bring, and I feel like Thief + Psychic does its job besides vs Magnemite, and Magnemite still gets pressured by having a trapper behind/using other mons. Regardless, if you ever feel in need to use HP Ground Gastly, there are some slight dilemmas with nature. Timid doesn't let it OHKO Magnemite guaranteed, but Hasty is overall worse as 36 HP / 36 Def lets you survive vs things barely; most noticeable vs non CB Jolly Doduo. Besides that, Gastly doesn't have any major EV Spreads changes. Its moveset can be customized to its liking, but it's really hard to like grouping all of them since Gastly is very customizable. There's at least like 90% chance to see HP Ground + Thunderbolt together.
I used HP Ground so I had a way to break through Substitute Magnemite and Chinchou, and check them as Snorunt can OHKO/2HKO them. However, I've been labbing a lot, and you don't necessarily need to have HP Ground if your goal is to break sub. Ice Beam breaks Magnemite's sub, while Snorunt needs somewhere 120 SpA in order to break Chinchou's one. But I think it's a good option since Snorunt becomes a decent check vs both of them, especially with Light Screen, despite its purpose being a spiker. As for EV Spreads, both physdef or spdef invested works perfectly fine, but it's more likely optimal to make it Jolly/Bold/Careful if you want HP Ground to OHKO Magnmite/2HKO Chinchou, although you need one point in atk investment to 2HKO 56 Def Chinchou. Then again, I haven't taken into account on Icy Wind Rolls, but I think if you value some breaking, I recommend those natures. Here are some
spreads I like with Snorunt.
I used to use Hidden Power Ground before, but I found it too big of a commitment, so I dropped it for Flamethrower/Fire Blast. The problem with Hidden Power Ground was that it left you in a big 4mss against Gastly cores IMO, and then had some awkward coverage that it just felt underwhelming to use it. It's not super useful, but I think there are much better sets to use, though Koffing does have some awkward 4mss as ADV LC mons since you'd like Toxic/Will O Wisp, Thief, and Explosion, which leaves you for one attack lol. If you want to bring HP Ground Koffing through, I recommend these
sets.
Duskull has a similar dilemma to Gastly, but it wants to have HP Ground if you want to pressure Magnemite and Chinchou. It's not like it's mandatory for Duskull, but Duskull is already in a tough spot as an ADV LC Mon, and HP Ground helps it have some threat. As for moveset, besides the mandatory Shadow Ball, there are sets you can customize it with, somewhere as Icy Wind/Ice Beam, Thief, Memento, etc. As for EV Spreads? Well, if you want to be super secure vs Abra, then max HP max SpDef is the ideal set, but if you're willing to throw that out, you can have a lot of trollish sets but no one has seen it yet so at best just use the smogdex as a reference for that. Other than that, Duskull can't afford to run -Atk nature due to HP Ground Rolls.
Just a coverage move for Magnemite. It's alright, but I think HP Steel, HP Ghost, and Body Slam are by far the better moves, as Magnemite isn't worth the effort to bring it with.
Hidden Power Bug
Unless you're Anorith for STAB, this is specifically for Exeggcute but can be used vs Abra and other grass types as well. A lot of teams may fall short against Exeggcute in late-game scenarios, so Hidden Power Bug is a strong answer to that. For Abra, as long as you're able to revenge kill by either outspeeding it or taking a hit from +1 Abra and OHKO back, you're an option. But unlike Exeggcute, the options vs Abra are more limited, and those who use it for Abra will always have Atk investment on its EV Spread. As mentioned above, the default IV Spread is the inferior version, and almost always goes with 31/31/31/31/30/30.
HP Bug Anorith has a slight dilemma where you cannot simultaneously be 18 Speed and tank CB Doduo/Diglett hits guaranteed. So Anorith Spreads tends to be 17 Speed or have a 6.3 roll to die from CB Doduo Drill Peck and CB Diglett EQ. Something like...
EVs: 156 HP / 76 Atk / 116 Def / 160 Spe or EVs: 76 HP / 76 Atk / 116 Def / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 SpD / 30 Spe
As for the occasionally Impish SD Lead, you're able to run at least 16 in Speed without any stress, looking like this
EVs: 76 HP / 76 Atk / 196 Def / 160 Spe
Elekid is the only Pokémon that can comfortably switch in vs Abra while being able to revenge kill it as it has a near-perfect roll against it (94.7 - 115.7%). The 76 EVs can go either SpA or HP. SpA gives you slightly better rolls, while 1 point HP gives you guaranteed rolls to survive vs Special Attackers, most noticeably Exeggcute's Solarbeam. But there's a double-edged sword running this set. You'll notice how much losing SpA investment matters. Not being able to OHKO Max Atk CB Diglett, not a guaranteed 2hko on Lileep, and just worse damage rolls is something you will notice, and it will suck when you're facing like Snubbull for example. But either way, it's a nice set if you notice the opponent brings a lot of endgame Exeggcute/Abra. This set is more than likely to appear if the opponent has Trapinch, as I believe the set needs Trapinch as a mandatory team, unless proven wrong.
Lileep has a 37.5% chance to OHKO Abra, but whenever you're using HP Bug, it's mainly for Exeggcute since you take any hits with ease while easily revenge killing it back. Otherwise, I think Hidden Power Ghost is superior, and HP Bug Lileep has many drawbacks. In terms of checking teams, it's vulnerable vs Gastly, unable to break through Sub Magnemite, has a worse 1v1 vs Lileep, and makes itself set up fodder vs Bagon. At least there aren't any IV drops that ruin it, but Lileep rarely has any problems with EV spreads due to the amount of EV points left it has.
It's just basically used as an option to punish Exeggcute for trying to set up Sun on it. It has other applications vs Exegg as Exegg's only move beside Explosion is Solarbeam, so Trapinch can act as a trapper vs it. I don't really enjoy using HP Bug Trapinch as I cannot be simultaneously 9 in Speed and 13 in SpDef. There's also that you're omega cooked vs Doduo and Gastly. But I think this is fine to fit in if your team is built in a way that Exeggcute cannot get any opportunities to pull out the sun. The normal EVs: 156 HP / 116 Atk / 76 Def / 160 SpD work perfectly fine as long as you don't forget to change the IV Spreads from default.
No one uses Hidden Power Bug Diglett because Bulky Diglett uses up all of its EV Points, and CB Diglett prefers HP Ghost. But Sitrus set can use Hidden Power Bug, as the only viable defensive EV Spread I've thought would be EVs: 240 SpD / 236 Spe, where you're at least able to remove Elekid, although you can get away with Endure Salac. This set is obviously a fishy trap against Exeggcute, so you're able to abuse Oddish way even harder. Diglett becomes infinitely weak vs so many mons, especially if you're running Sunny Day along with it.
Hidden Power Bug is nice for STAB Combo and nails down Abra and Exeggcute, but also good chip damage vs Grass types. But overall, it's not an option you'll see because Pineco has much better tools that cover more than the general. It's just nice to mention this because Pineco can act threaten other ways than booming.
You're not gonna see this set, and if you pull that on me, you will not be ready on that when I catch you lacking...
This is a set I made out of fun because Chinchou can beat non-sub/barrier Abra 1v1. Surf has a high chance of not triggering Sitrus on +1 Abra, and HP Bug guarantees the kill right after. It's actually not too bad in terms of meta, but there are obvious drawbacks that you can't have -atk nature and therefore you're sacrificing power + speed in order to bulky as possible. But it's just a
fun set I created due to my extensive labbing.
Hidden Power Ghost
More focused on Gastly and Abra, but can use it vs other Psychic, and is overall slightly more flexible than HP Bug IMO. But unlike HP Bug, most mons require 1 or 2 points of Atk EVs Investment to threaten the targets.
Same applications as HP Bug, just that you're putting more pressure vs Gastly as well in exchange for being worse vs Exeggcute.
Only good for Salac and CB set, as the IV drops at Spdef, making Spdef set less appealing for me. CB EV Spreads is just about the same, but the Salac set has to go through some minor adjustments. The EV Spread that I recommend with Salac set is EVs: 116 HP / 156 Atk / 236 Spe, and change the default IV spread into 31/31/30/31/30/31.
Hidden Power Ghost can be considered as an option to check vs Gastly, as they don't always run Will O Wisp, Giga Drain, and Hidden Power Ice.
There are some dilemmas on EV Spreads. Using the default IV Spread, you can't run 18 Atk along with the defensive set, and the second option is worse due to IV drops at Def and Attack. But you're able to afford running 9 in Speed, so you become a revenge killer against Lileep. Honestly, Trapinch doesn't necessarily need Attack investment on its sets. No Atk investment makes you just worse vs Bulky Abra, which is an ancient set, and EQ + QA are unable to secure vs Bagon, for example. I prefer 9 Speed a lot as Trapinch can 1v1 Lileep with ease.
Same applications as HP Bug, but you're hitting Gastly, and it's a roll to kill against 36 HP/36 Def when you use Giga Drain -> Hidden Power Ghost. And you still have the same weakness as HP Bug, especially vs Lileep in a 1v1, and you're not able to remove Exeggcute. Otherwise, I like this set when my team can't afford more Gastly switch-in checks.
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Both have high base attack stats that they can use HP Ghost to OHKO Abra. Ponyta with 17 Attack OHKO's 76 Def Abra, but if you are willing to risk the 6.3 roll then no Attack investment is necessary for it, while Magby needs to have 1 point more in Atk to get the same roll as Ponyta. The Drawbacks for Ponyta are that it doesn't threaten Water Types anymore, unless the set is Sunny Day / Fire Blast / Solarbeam / Hidden Power Ghost. Which isn't a bad set if you think about it, but since Diglett and Flash Fire mons exist, it's rather awkward to bring it out in a match. Magby has an easier time due to Thunder Punch, but needs something else to pressure vs opposing fire matchups, as it doesn't have Fire Flash to deny fire attacks from them.
I like this if you bring it along with Rock Tomb/Icy Wind, or the Cubone is designed bulky enough to survive vs Ice Punch Abra(23 Hp/13 Def). It's awkward to fit it in, especially if you want Double Edge and SD, but I think it's one of the better moves Cubone has in its arsenal as it OHKOs anything that isn't super effective or if they've like massive physdef bulk. As for set, Rock Tomb/Icy Wind Cubone has some slight dilemma on Jolly or Adamant because of damage rolls, but otherwise it's normal. Bulky Cubone isn't a talked set since I just created it out of nowhere. So if you want a set of it, click
here
It's a niche option if you want to eliminate Gastly near the endgame. But I think HP Steel is more preferable as it beats Larvitar, Anorith, and Lileep in late-game scenarios. EV Spread is just about the same, and I think this Hidden Power is recommended for Sub set, even if it fits on 3 Atk.
HP Ghost is an old tech that was used for Exeggcute, Baltoy, and Gastly back in Porygon days. But nowadays, Substitute is more preferable as it synergizes very well with para / toxic structures and it scouts out Endure Mons. Hidden Power Ghost can still be used nowadays, but Larvitar doesn't really need to stress with that, as it is more stressed trying to be a viable mon in this tier
Pineco is honestly a really good Gastly switch-in as it doesn't care what it dishes for, and it can help Pineco somewhat with rapid spin. But it's not necessary and just a niche option; you don't need to think too much about.
ADV LC server on my ASS when I'm bringing HP Ghost Wailmer :(
HP Ghost Wailmer is nice because it has a good chance to OHKO Abra, while being able to pressure Gastly; even a good chance to OHKO it if Gastly doesn't run 36 Def. The downside, besides not pressuring the opposing Water, is that it has some of the ugliest EV Spreads, and having a mindset of checking vs everything from physdef + spdef and then outspeeding 10 mon is too much when you're kinda essentially forced to run -speed or -def nature and you need attack investment on HP Ghost to OHKO them. Because of that, Wailmer tends to be slower and doesn't bring its strongest base power moves. And it's easy to see why HP Ghost Wailmer brings so many downsides, and people hating on the set. But it has some nice benefits, as 116 Atk-Self Destruct deletes any Wailmer sets, and you do not need to use Icy Wind + Water Spout to beat CM Abra, or get limited by Water Spout's drawback. This set is probably best as a lead due to its focus on survival, and being favoured vs most Special leads, even Electric ones. Wailmer can't afford enough bulk to tank both CB Doduo and Electric Attacks, but most Doduo leads are forced out because Physdef Wailmer is still one of the best leads, so Wailmer gets away since the best way to handle Wailmer if you have no idea of its set is to bring a Pokémon that survives all of its sets really. If you ever want to try it out, click
here.
Machop should always have HP Ghost. It OHKO's Gastly while SpDef Gastly can't OHKO it back, and it's just perfect synergy along with Cross Chop. HP Ghost IVs doesn't really mess up any of Machop's spread, so Machop can afford to bulky as possible with some speed to avoid Snubbull interactions. Since the Machop set on Smogdex is outdated, here's my
recommendation for Machop.
SD Tentacool can use HP Ghost along with Sludge Bomb + Surf. But if you're Endure Salac, then I wouldn't recommend it because Surf basically helps vs Anorith and Trapinch MU. If so, most SD Tentacool sets to be bulky enough to survive vs tbolt from Staryu and would bring something like Lonely nature to get the best out of its mixed moveset.
Hidden Power Ice
One of the more interesting types, as it targets Grass, Doduo, and Bagon at once. I think this is probably the next most common type behind Hidden Power Grass, due to the flexibility of the mons using it. The default IV Spread is also inferior, as there's an IV Spread that only drops one IV point(31/31/31/31/31/30), but you don't necessarily need to change into it as long as the default IV Spread fits in there currently. Most Pokémon that will use HP Ice will have Sp Atk investment to 2HKO/OHKO mons.
If you're using any types other than Hidden Power Ice, you're essentially throwing the value of Oddish. Oddish's HP Ice used along with Solarbeam and Bullet Seed, essentially solves the Diglett, Abra, Doduo, Elekid, and Bagon endgame scenario due to its monstrous power to OHKO all of them(except Bagon bc of a roll) at once. The drawback of HP Ice is something you can't solve, and that is you can't run 15 Def/17SpA/11 Speed due to Hidden Power IV drop at Defense. Every other IV spreads drops in speed, sp atk; hell, even HP Electric suffers this fate. So you're forced to add the rest of EV points into HP, which gives CB Diglett a 6.3 chance to OHKO Oddish. Dropping Sp.Atk point gives Doduo and Abra a chance to survive, and you do not want to speed tie vs 20 mons at all costs.
Hidden Power Ice Voltorb is only worthy to use if you're using the Spdef Set (116 HP/156 SpD) to survive vs Oddish's Solarbeam. As for IV Spread, you want 31/30/30/31/31/31 or 31/31/31/31/31/30 so you can add an extra point on Atk or Defense. Hasty and Timid can work, and it's up to preferences if you want to tank some physical hits or have a stronger explosion on Voltorb.
HP Ice Magnemite is a solid option to use over HP Grass to beat Grass types and Diglett. Specifically, I've seen Magnemite running more bulk to sub on Lileep without breaking, solidifying its check status even harder. Using Hidden Power Ice does leave you wide open for Sub Chinchou, but other than that, it's quite a nice adaptation Magnemite has going for it. I made
my own version of bulky Magnemite for anyone that's interested in using it at some point.
I actually love using HP Ice Gastly despite its heavy drawback. Being able to 2hko Lileep is really nice, and it just feels natural to add Ice moves on Gastly lol. However, there are numerous problems with using it. Ice Offense doesn't have the best coverage in the tier, and Gastly has some conflicting 4mss where it has to decide if it wants to bring Tbolt, Psychic, Giga Drain, etc, as it can't fit all of them at once. Without Tbolt, you're not OHKOing Staryu and have to commit investment on HP Ice to OHKO Doduo, which also creates a dilemma for SpDef Gastly sets as dropping speed and bulk is highly committal. No Psychic means you're walled by opposing Gastly, and many mons that are afraid of Psychic are suddenly good vs Gastly. No Giga Drain means that you're giving Chinchou free subs. There are also better sets Gastly can use to approach against its checks, so it makes Hidden Power Ice Gastly more of a blessing in disguise for any teams facing it.
It's a solid option to call out Doduo trying to switch in. You'll need to be Modest 18 SpA to OHKO Doduo, so there's a commitment of losing bulk in the process. Thunder Punch does look better at the surface, but Hidden Power Ice has some applications if you want 1v1 vs opposing Grass types. In the end, it's an option that Cacnea does not need, but it does help him vs many matchups.
Agility sets tend to run Hidden Power Ice due to covering Doduo, Bagon, and Grass types. It's kinda a weaker version of Oddish despite their differences. I don't think Hidden Power Ice is necessary as Treecko has Thunder Punch for Doduo, and there may be other Hidden Power types that may work better. But Treecko is largely neglected due to its poor endgame coverage, as it falls flat vs CM Abra. Here's a
set if you're ever curious about using it.
I heavily prefer Ice over Grass due to Bagon's endgame. Otherwise, HP grass is better if you want to cover vs Grass types as well. There is no public knowledge about it, so I can give you my
set I used vs Jyusaan at the ADV LC CUP Finals.
Hidden Power Steel
This move is specifically for setup users as Bulk Up Snubbull and Dragon Dance Bagon for Anorith, Larvitar, and Lileep, but it's also a good offensive type that synergizes well with Normal-type moves. The IV Spreads are very generous since it has only one IV drop, and Snubbull and Bagon can afford it. Hidden Power Steel may be specific, but it's quite effective when needed, which is why I put it here over niche selection, since it's a likely option, you can see it coming.
Besides these two, the only other Pokémon that can use it is Choice Band
as it threatens most variants of Anorith sets. Neither Max atk/speed nor any Spdef variations(76HP/160 SpDef for Oddish) should have issues with their EV Spreads.
Niches
Hidden Power Water
These days, you'll only see it used occasionally on Abra for Houndour. But back in Porygon days, there were some mons such as Koffing that used it for Larvitar and Anorith. But it fell off shortly after as Houndour, Anorith, and Larvitar became less common. Abra preferred Ice Punch as well since it had much better coverage besides vs Houndour. But it's still a niche option that isn't all bad and can be occasionally used. The drawbacks of it are its IVS drops either at SpA and Def, or SpA or Spe, and messes up EV Spreads. This is most noticeable with Abra since 9/10 Def dramatically changes rolls to your favour, and you want to maximize Special Attacks to avoid low rolls.
Hidden Power Dark
Hidden Power Dark is only used by Abra, but it's such an underrated move for Abra, as this has a very high chance to OHKO opposing Abra and is generally a strong coverage move vs certain teams. There may be some uncommon Mons, such as CM Natu, or Pineco for Psychics, Gastly, and Doduo, but you'll only see this on Abra at best.
Hidden Power Fire
I've only gotten to use this for Exeggcute in combination with Oddish, as Exeggcute can lure in Magnemite, and explode on Houndour. Otherwise, the drops on SpA and Speed IVs make Hidden Power a less desired type to be used. But it can exist and could be explored, but as the meta is right now, I doubt you'll notice this in a serious match.
Based on my builds, I've only used this with Snorunt and Gastly. I assume Snorunt was for Pineco and Magnemite, while Gastly's was for Magnemite, Cacnea, and Pineco. But it's borderline outclassed or lacks any worth for anyone to use it IMO.
Hidden Power Fighting
I used this for one Pokémon only, and it was on Venonat. It could pressure Lileep, Magnemite, and Snubbull, and was overall a strong coverage move along with Psychic. But I'd avoid this at any cost since you have only two 31's IVs and that alone screws up your EV Spreads.
Actually, I lied. I used this for Doduo as well as for Snubbull, Larvitar, Magnemite, and Lileep. It's not a bad option IMO since Doduo has 36 EV points left behind, so this is affordable. Nothing changes on CB Doduo spreads, though I'd not use this for Sitrus sets, especially if you're Spdef Invested.
Hidden Power Flying
Either you're using it since you don't have a flying-type move, or Aerial Ace BP isn't enough to OHKO that mon. Regardless, it's an option that can exist, but it's very flawed due to its lackluster coverage and having a terrible IV Spread where you're losing 3 IVs at best. The only time you're going to use it may be Taillow, or Lead Cubone to snipe Grass leads, but those have awful drawbacks by ruining the EV spreads. For example, Taillow would love to have one point on Spdef to survive vs Exegg Psychic, but HP Flying ruins it. Cubone EV Spreads gets messed up beyond that, it's not needed to discuss with. Point blank, Hidden Power Flying may have some uses, but overall, avoid this if possible.
This post is quite long, so I'll continue the Toxic + Sub topic and combine it along with my post-meta thoughts. It won't be as long as this one, because I want to quickly post my teams from LPL 13/14, and ADVPL.
