Lower Tiers ADV RU

:rs/rapidash: Sun in ADV RU :rs/shiftry:

Now that I'm knocked out of the ADV RU Open tour, I want to take a minute to talk about a playstyle thats been taking off in recency. Sun is an increasingly popular, diverse, and very effective strategy in the current metagame. Ever since Rapidash turned out to be an amazing pokemon, especially the Sunny Day sets, people have been taking it one step further by including Chlorophyll Grasses like Shiftry and Victreebel as partners, and the way they synergize so well at breaking is something the current meta should be wary of. Sun is typically categorized into three groups, generally following the same framework; Partial Sun Spikes, Partial Sun Spikeless, and Full Sun Spikes. I want to go over my personal thoughts of Sun here.

Sun Viability Rankings:

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S:

:rapidash: To start off, Rapidash is truly what makes Sun what it is, breaking all kinds of offensive cores with ease and even doing well against stall. A Sun team without Rapidash is not a real Sun, losing out on the breaking power and Speed tier is largely detrimental if you want to run just a Chlorophyll mon. However...

:shiftry: :victreebel: ...that shouldn't be to discount them that Sun also needs. Shiftry and Victreebel are also Sun staples, needing one at minimum but Full Sun likes having both. Chlorophyll Grasses are an excellent pairing with Rapidash, especially with people using bulky Politoed and Poliwrath to check Fires. If one Sun sweeper isn't able to break open a hole or complete the sweep, enabling the other one is very potent, such as transitioning a Shiftry sweep into a Rapidash one or vice versa. Shiftry provides the best defensive value into Haunter, offensive Politoed, and Raichu, while Victreebel is great at screwing with bulky Politoed, Poliwrath, and Sableye due to its Toxic immunity. In recency, Shiftry has been exploring different moves such as HP Rock and Extrasensory, HP Rock for hitting Fires and Mantine, and Extrasensory to score an OHKO on Haunter without relying on Sun for a 2HKO, and hitting Hitmonchan on the switch. Victreebel on the other hand, while best with Special-focused Sleep Powder sets, can also run a mixed set with Solar Beam, HP Ground, and Sludge Bomb. Vics HP Ground hits much harder than Shiftry HP Rock on Rapidash, having a roll to OHKO after Spikes with max Attack invest and Soft Sand, and Sludge Bomb is used for opposing Grasses and Mantine.

:glalie: While Spikes aren't needed on every Sun team, they still provide immense support in Rapidash's endeavors to sweep. This also makes switch stalling to burn Sun turns less effective; every tick of Spikes chip counts and it makes opposing teams very wary of switching unless they have a Mantine. Although Glalie tends to give entry to Rapidash and Hitmonchan as it Spikes, the ability to threaten exploding on them and chipping them the next time they come in goes a long way for a Sun sweep.

A:

:poliwrath: While Rapidash is known for its ability to bypass Waters as checks in Sun, every team must have ways of switching into them, and Poliwrath is the largely preferred Water on Sun due to its STAB not being hurt when Sun is up. Poliwrath's breaking potential on Sun is better in comparison to Politoed and the extra physical bulk is very valuable. Poliwrath can even be a very good lead for Sun, matching up well into everything and providing a good offensive presence from turn 1.

:haunter: Haunter is already one of the best support Pokemon in the tier for many Spikes teams, and the bulky weather support set introduced in RUGL is very pivotal to set momentum for Sun teams while being an apt defensive pivot. Fun fact, I have made my own full Sun with just the 6 Pokemon listed above.

:hitmonchan: While already being one of the most fierce wallbreakers in the tier, Hitmonchan is a great add on Spikeless Sun teams, valued for having good priority and special bulk as an emergency check to sweepers that might pose problems for Sun like Reversal Raichu, Mantine, or an opposing Rapidash. Bulk Up Hitmonchan is also a good tertiary sweeper for Sun teams, luring special walls like Hypno and Mantine to further enable the Sun sweepers late-game.

B:

Most of B tier is comprised of offensive glue and other reasonable adds to Sun teams. Stantler and Raichu are generally great wallbreakers that help spread Spikes chip; great as Spikeless offense filler. Although I said Ninetales wasn't that good in my previous meta thoughts post, I think I'm coming around to the lead set a bit more, it especially helps on Sun teams to win interactions vs physical leads and beat down Rapidash, which is important for your own Rapidash to gain an edge. Hypno also is an effective lead that can reliably spread Twave paras and help into Rapidash and Haunter in a pinch, it just fits on everything so ofc it'd be good here. Although Wrath is the preferred Poli on Sun, Politoed isn't counted out thanks to its better Mantine matchup and still-workable Rapidash matchup, being a good fit on Sun teams using Spikes. Meganium seems like it would just stack weaknesses with the Chlorophylll Grasses, and while thats true on Spikes structures, on Spikeless it definitely works to break with SD and lure Rapidash for the rest of the Sun team, potentially benefitting from Suns ability to give it 75% Synthesis healing. Metang is the second normal resist listed here, being solid into Jolly CB Persian if measures are that desperate, but it also has the underrated set of 3A Sunny Day to provide support for some Sun teams.

C downward:

Everything else listed aren't quite the same fixtures on Sun teams as the Pokemon listed above, but they have unique attributes for certain Sun teams, be that shown in practice or merely theoretical. I won't go over everything but I will go over some of the more notable placings. Swalot is one of the best checks to opposing Sun on Spikeless Sun builds, while also helping into fat Waters if the team lacks a Victreebel. Pidgeot is another good mon on Spikeless as an alternative to Hitmonchan for priority and physical wallbreaking. Torkoal is similar to Ninetales but slightly worse to me, though some Sun teams like the extra insurance it provides by being less weak to Rapidash HP Rock. Pikachu is a cool lead that recently popped off in the open tour, it breaks open holes early by beating or trading well with the mid-Speed leads such as Stantler, Hitmonchan, and all of the Water leads. Where it can shine on Sun is by using Light Screen + Volt Tackle recoil for sweepers to take advantage of. Primeape mainly works on Double or Triple fighter structures where they all enable each other and cover for weaknesses very well. I reckon it's more of a Spikeless Sun thing but I think a Spikes comp could maybe work as well? Maybe Primeape Poliwrath Glalie Haunter Rapidash Shiftry/Vic? All of the D tier mons are trash on Sun, but I throw Huntail in there because BFM made it work during Week 1 of RUGL so it's the lowest ranking mon for sure but it has a result at least.

Unsure:

I do believe that Double Fire is great when you use Ninetales/Rapidash and potentially Torkoal/Rapidash, but as far as the other Fires go they really worsen your matchup into physical breakers. Magmar probably has the most promise here though due to its ability to TPunch Mantine early, beating down Rapidash with HP Ground (which is better on Sun over HP Water, honestly I might do this with all of my Magmars), and having generally great firepower under Sun. The rest of the mons in "unsure" do deserve experimentation, especially Kingler lead, but I wouldn't be shocked if they just didn't fit.


Now wIth everything talked about with Sun and why it is a great team style in ADV RU, this leaves us with one question...

Where does this leave Rain?

Rain is another good pick in the metagame, yet I dont feel like it is quite as versatile or efficient as Sun is. Rain is more focused on lures and heavy Spikes support, whereas Sun can drop Spikes for more offensive glue in its team slots. Where Rain really shines is its matchup into Sun teams, it's harder to countersweep Rain as Sun than it is to countersweep Sun as Rain. Rain has also been used to success in the past few months, with good showings in RUGL and the Open Tour. I don't want to put a lot of the focus on Rain in this post, so I will leave this segment spoilered in case you want to read about what's good and my thoughts on it.

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S:

Mantine is the linchpin of all Rain right now. Just as Sun can not go without Rapidash, so can't Rain without Mantine, valued for countersweeping Sun teams, outspeeding Salac Haunter, and checking Hitmonchan. Although, where Rain begins to differ from Sun is that while Sun relies on a dual synergy between Rapidash and Grasses, most Rain is dedicated to primarily supporting a Mantine sweep, and potentially other teammates given the team composition but mainly Mantine. While it seems weird that Rapidash would be so high here, the CB and Silk Scarf sets are key to letting Mantine sweep by battering down Waters with a strong Double-Edge. If Rapidash doesn't kill them outright, even some chip is enough to put them in Mantine HP Elec range. So far I haven't seen a Spikeless Rain build as compared to Sun, mostly due to the breakers and sweepers more heavily appreciating Spikes support, though not to say Glalie and Haunter aren't fantastic teammates here. Glalie has a benefit on Rain by being a potential Rain setter, although typical Spikes sets are usually enough to get by.

A:

Huntail and Kabutops are good Swift Swim sweepers too, yet their synergy with Mantine isn't as required or robust. However, Full Rain still widely appreciates them picking up some slack for Mantine. Despite not having Swift Swim, I would also count Raichu as a good Rain sweeper and setter, with fully accurate Thunders and boosted Surfs to make up for the lack of boosting options or pressure other Raichu sets have. Flareon acts similarly to Rapidash by luring Waters, being much stronger and thus less reliant on Spikes or chip to make up for the power loss, yet Rapidash still has the Speed advantage so it's a bit more specific. Agility Metang also benefits from the trend of Rain's nature to beat down bulky Waters and is a shockingly good breaker in these cases, but it can also be a good general weather setter and normal resist, 3 attacks weather move is good for a lot of Sun and Rain teams.

B downward:

While it may seem odd for Pupitar to be ranked so highly, maybe out of experience bias or cope that the mon could work, I find it to have an excellent synergy with Rain in a similar way to Agility Metang. It provides another good sweeper that takes advantage of Waters being weakened and is great into common threats to Rain such as Physical Rapidash, Persian, Haunter, and bulky Raichu. Water leads like Octillery, Wailord, and Seadra are also good at breaking open holes for Mantine early in the game, this is actually featured in one of the samples with Octillery. Hypno and Pikachu are primarily just good leads to match up well into Fighter and Water leads respectively, providing decent support with Twave and Light Screen but ofc not needed for most teams. I have used Banette on a bunch of my Rain teams to break Hypno, but I acknowledge the support as a Ghost compared to Haunter is a little lacking.

Everything below are things that could work but I feel don't typically mesh well with Rain comps. Stantler is generally good offensive glue but I don't feel like the holes it breaks are that necessary for Rain to function. While you can justify a Poli with Mantine on Partial Rain builds, I don't feel it's particularly worth it compared to using CB Rapidash or other Water leads to beat down opposing Waters. Pidgeot and Swalot are Spikeless staples to give a good matchup into Sun yet I still don't feel like Spikeless Rain is a thing yet. Always down to be proven wrong though.
With all of this said, and with some controversy around the topic as judged by the survey that I held, I want to pose some food for thought to the ADV RU community with this question...

Is Sun a problem in ADV RU?

In my opinion, no. Quite possibly I would even say this is a potential positive in carving out the tier's identity and making it stand out among all other ADV and RU tiers. I believe Sun to be a dominant playstyle but not quite problematic. I think the tier's current anti-offense tools are still sufficient enough to handle Sun with careful play, and by using Sun you take certain risks at some corners, notably with Fire Blast accuracy, which can be detrimental to a Rapidash sweep. There are also techs to handle Sun at the moment, whether that be bulky Hitmonchan or HP Fire Haunter. I've noticed in the survey and when talking to people that the key factor to it being potentially problematic points towards Rapidash alone. Time will tell whether Rapidash is truly broken or not, I would only point to the Sunny Day sets in this instance. I want to leave discussion open here for ADV RU players to give their thoughts on it, if any, whether that be cool tech, teams, is X or Y broken, etc. Thank you all for reading so far! As a parting gift, I want to share some of my own weather teams that I've been using a bit not currently on samples. I would throw in Spikeless Sun if I had the chance but I haven't built with it too much recently. Happy ADV RUing~!

Teams:

Ninetales Partial Sun
:ninetales: :glalie: :poliwrath: :haunter: :victreebel: :rapidash:

Pikachu Partial Rain
:pikachu: :glalie: :haunter: :hitmonchan: :mantine: :rapidash:

Full Sun

:glalie: :poliwrath: :haunter: :victreebel: :shiftry: :rapidash:

Full Rain

:glalie: :haunter: :mantine: :huntail: :raichu: :rapidash:
 
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From my observations in the Open, I'm not so sure sun is a great all-in playstyle so much as it is an effective closing strategy. The games I've watched where Victreebel or Shiftry dominates is because its side had some great early exchanges and the opponent didn't have the resources to cope. What's undeniable is that sun's incredible against the standard goodstuff composition of Fire-Water-Glalie-Haunter. Such teams are built on the idea that ADV RU's about trading big hits, so you should use the stuff that trades hits best. They're a little lacking in sweeper countermeasures, since a lot of said sweepers were finicky Salac sets and hey, there's always Haunter, but multiple super-fast mons with great coverage are just too much late-game. Sun is thriving just as much on the meta's unpreparedness for early support Raichu/Pikachu as Sunny Day Rapidash into Chlorophyll mon.

:hypno: :girafarig: :chimecho: :mr_mime:
This shift seems attackable. One big thing I've noticed is that people aren't really using or respecting Psychic-types, which seem amazing against this trend toward sun special offense with their Psychic/Fire coverage. It makes sense when Hypno is considered the best, which is often relegated to early trades and getting beaten down, but I have to wonder what would happen if we took more proactive CM approaches with the likes of Girafarig and Chimecho. My series with BigFatMantis showed promise from both. I've also been theorycrafting lead Mr. Mime, which boasts great-to-fair lead matchups across the board except Normals, spreading paralysis with much greater Speed and power than Hypno.

:rapidash:
On the topic of Rapidash, I don't think we've had nearly enough time and games to determine a problem. Every set makes significant tradeoffs between raw power and sustainability, and it's not able to immediately KO that many things, leaving it to take a big hit in the process. I even think SunnyBeam just sucks as a standalone threat (you're setting up just to 3HKO a bulky Water?). Its interactions aren't uncompetitive and each set is counterable, so I want to see how players continue to address it in building. I don't think being on every team is an inherently bad thing, either, plenty of healthy old-gen top tiers are like that.

:haunter:
Lastly and somewhat unrelatedly, I want to question the ubiquity of Haunter. It's never struck me as that good. In a tier defined by "get ahead, stay ahead," a mon that's often there just to 1-for-1 with DBond seems like a losing strategy. In Rapidash's world, it's no longer fast enough to pose a significant offensive threat, and late-game Normal-types aren't in fashion. It's not even consistent at the DBond thing, since Endure can be mindgamed and commons moves like Fire Blast and Hydro Pump miss. It now feels like a failsafe from a less refined metagame, whose lacking defensive presence is exacerbating teams' weaknesses to current threats. When it works, it works, but I can't help noticing how often it looks like a wasted slot in others' games.
 
Hello, now that the ADV RU tournament has concluded, I feel the need to drop some Teams and say a few things.

1. I did not use a singular Politoed or Glalie in this tour, kind of to prove a point. I don't think Politoed is really all that, and while I'm building teams where I appreciate its presence, its role is very easily filled by other waters. Glalie is kind of all that, but I have a lot of fun using my Spikeless offense stuff, so I didn't feel like loading it much.

2. Rapidash might just be the best Pokemon in the tier. In all of my games of this tier (both indiv tour and RUGL), I've never dropped it. It's just the best speed control and one of the best breakers (especially since we aren't using much Torkoal or Camerupt). It is probably the single best piece offense can ask for, and offense (spikes or spikeless, bulky or general offense) is probably the best playstyle in the tier.

3. Sunny Day is kind of stupid. Not necessarily Rapidash, but the move Sunny Day. Weather cores are ridiculously strong and extremely easy to fit and use, Shiftry is fantastic, Victreebel hits like a truck, and Rapidash under Sun is answered basically just by other fire types. When running offense (which again, is probably the best playstyle in the tier), I find it hard to not just slap on a weather core since everything is both facilitated by it and facilitates it.

Here's a VR (stop sleeping on my GOAT Swalot)
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And here are the teams I used throughout the individual tour (I think they're in reverse order lol):
https://pokepast.es/b4adf1180ff879bd
https://pokepast.es/d2796cc536b6e7f1
https://pokepast.es/6ed559afc2fc64c6
https://pokepast.es/70b2f0bba7f01f48
https://pokepast.es/f2c60341db822c41
https://pokepast.es/0d60d75803139813
https://pokepast.es/1d187cf0738a8a26
https://pokepast.es/7db0561dbe83c56f
https://pokepast.es/792356330b938080
https://pokepast.es/53b8829552f170a5
 
This might be a noob question, but where are you guys playing this tier? I can't find a server where Gen 3 RU is even an option in searching for a battle. Is there a ladder?
 
Hi, now that RUWC has ended, I will be posting my teams (as well as an importable set compendium, because I dunno, I just felt like it) since I don't know if I'm ever gonna play this tier again, so woohoo here's teams and stuff. Also, if there's duplicate teams, sorry, I literally just copy pasted both my main and my stours builder and put them together LOL
Teams
Compendium 1
Compendium 2
Compendium 3
The compendiums work as Boxes in your PS builder, so when you import them, whenever you're making a team, you can use the Import/Export button, and the box sets will show up there. It makes teambuilding much more convenient for me, if you don't use them, then that's ok. I also removed Quagsire and Hypno from them (but not my teams because I'm LAZY) as they will be leaving.

ADV RU VR October 2024.jpg

also here's a vr i made in like 10 minutes because i felt like it
this tier is pretty fun, i still think the Sunny Day move is a little silly but that's about my only complaint with the tier. everything feels very in your control, very little move accuracy/paralysis other RNG effects that actually affect games unlike almost every other adv tier
ok goodbye :)
 
ADV RU has now officially gained shifts with the update of the new ADV UU Viability Rankings! Our changes will be:...

:clefable: :xatu: Clefable and Xatu from UU to RU
:hypno: :quagsire: :girafarig: Hypno, Quagsire, and Girafarig from RU to UU
:fearow: Fearow from RUBL to UU

Tagging dhelmise and Marty to implement on PS!

Tournaments for this week will not include shifts, but will be in place starting next week on November 4th Murphy Lawden. Sample teams will also be updated with shifts in affect, here is the current list:

https://pokepast.es/7a94313339832cba Lead Xatu Spikes by plznostep
https://pokepast.es/eb86f788fd40c481 Xatu + Pidgeot Bird Spam by Amity
https://pokepast.es/2b0ede87bbb925d7 Double Poli by SEA
https://pokepast.es/1d187cf0738a8a26 Stantler Partial Sun by SEA
https://pokepast.es/ad7227de7cafb91c Double Fighter + Twave Xatu Sun by THE_CHUNGLER
https://pokepast.es/399e7593c261824c Bulky Vic + Relicanth Balance by Amity
https://pokepast.es/92ef797048b2a754 Full Sun by Amity
https://pokepast.es/8004c4d24da8037d Standard Rain by Amity
https://pokepast.es/b9d3a2e32f41f7e7 Kabutops + Clef Stall by Amity
 
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Circuit playoffs are around the corner and RUBD is on its last week, so I wanted to make a VR post since the last one is pre-shifts and outdated.
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:Rapidash: It's Dash lol. Best revenge killer, one of the tiers best Spike abusers and slotted on pretty much every non-stall team (though its good there too!) theres rarely a reason to not be using it
sunny day=silk scarf>>>cb>>>subtox for its sets
:Glalie: Glalie is similarly self explanatory, though Spikeless is viable Spikes is the dominant archetype and Glalie is by far the tier's best spiker. Lead commonly gets 2+ spikes up if you don't run into chan ape or kabu, its a great midgame sponge into special attackers like Toed or focus punch-less Raichu and boom lets it trade KOs lategame if youre already ahead. Ice beam/EQ is what I usually prefer but theres a lot of viable move combos.
:Poliwrath: Wrath is highkey really stupid lol. As a fighter it offers a significantly better defensive profile than Chan with much better bulk, sponging hits from Dash and nailing other waters with Counter. Its half fighting type lets it act as the only safe water switch-in that doesnt get Glalied on (toed can fpunch but it has to sack evs and run hydro and its pretty ewie). Its probably the best and most consistent lead in the tier rn, it can run sub BU to setup on other Wrath leads and back Belly Drum punishes poor builder habits really well if your opp doesnt respect it. Super consistent and a staple on nearly every type of team.
:Raichu: I'm not quite as high on Chu as some other people but the mon has insane set versatility to the point that nothing is *really* a safe switch into it. Encore on a mon that outspeeds the entire tier bar Dash is pretty broken and it can slot any of Toxic, HP Ice, Focus Punch to cripple or punch through any of its checks, HP Ground to nail other Raichu or even drop Sub to run 3 utility moves at a time. Outside its main set, Magnet Volt Tackle trades extreme power for any semblance of bulk or longevity Chu has left, Petaya Agility is a good midgame cleaner on offensive teams and Wish Protect is a good utility fatmon for bulkier teams. Im not sure of the viability of Lead or Salac Reversal in the current meta but both sets have historically seen use.
:Hitmonchan: Though I generally prefer slotting Wrath as my fighter for its consistency and sheer bulk, Chan is still a phenomenal mon by itself. It trades bulk and a half water typing for much better offenses, hitting harder than Wrath and having Mach to revenge kill or clean up KOs that Sky Uppercut cant manage by itself. Chan is also the tier's best hazard removal, being one of two viable mons to learn Spin and making it a great lead for fatter squads that hate spikes. Alongside Wrath, 4a Chan is one of the tiers best leads, Leftovers trading well while offering midgame utility in Mach and CB Sky Uppercut OHKO or crippling most leads. Bulk Up is the tier's premier setup cleaner lategame, having the special bulk to trade blows well and using Mach to clean once boosted.
:Politoed: Politoed (specifically fatter offensive spreads) still feels pretty strong despite the meta trends being against it rn, abusing Spikes a lot better than Wrath with stronger attacks and better offensive coverage. It's achilles heel is how easily Glalie can switch into it and start Spiking for free, and Toed's counterplay is pretty limited outside of double switching or using Focus Punch sets. Despite that, the mon is a great alternative to Wrath and works well with it on double Poli teams to wear down opposing Water checks.
:Victreebel: The tiers best fighter counter or a devastating powerhouse depending on what set you're going with. Bulky Vic switches into the fighters for free and can get up sleep powder on the switch while slow encore can mess with setup sets like Bulk Up Chan or BD Wrath. Bulky is also a good Chu counter into sets without HP Ice (but please scout for it so you dont get rolled by HP Ice lol). CB is an extremely polarizing set that hits very hard and can go nuts if its checks are gone, but can struggle hard into teams with counters like Metang or Swalot, and Vic's sun sweeper and CB sets work exceptionally well with the horse on sun teams.
:Haunter: Glalie and Weather's best friend. Not much to say beyond Haunter just being a very versatile support mon. Salac gives your team speed control into sweepers, it's a great pivot into the fighters for teams without dedicated switches, it can setup weather and boom to safely get your sweepers in, and Taunt sets can cripple Glalies too eager to switchin and start spiking. Once multiple layers of Spikes go up it can get rough to switch in on too.
:Stantler: Another pretty straightforward goodstuff mon. Usually seen as a lead to start firing off dedges and subs with coverage to beat any of the normal resists, but back Stant with twave is fine too. Silk Lefties CB and Salac are all good item choices. Wearing down normal resists can be good for teammates like PhysDash and persian
:Meganium: I'm a pretty outspoken Meganium hater but its not *that* bad. Best (and arguably only reliable) Raichu counter in the tier, but it doesnt love eating a toxic and you've gotta use synthesis if you want to check it long-term. Its stall matchup is fantastic too but the archetype is rarely seen in the meta right now and most teams will have a horse right behind whatever kill you'll be taking with it. It definently has a lot of valuable traits, but its silver bullet nature leaves it to mostly Spikeless teams that can afford the extra slots and appreciate its upsides.
:Mantine: Rain is considerably worse than Sun teams but that doesnt mean Mantine is anywhere near a bad slot. It requires a lot of support to really be worth the pick, basically mandating Spikes and physical Rapidash to bait in and chip down Waters. Amity explained weather a lot better than I could above just go read that if you want the Mantine rundown.
:Kabutops: Im a big Kabu fan in the meta rn. In lead it punishes a lot of the non-standard leads really well and forcing in a physical sponge like Wrath or Metang can be taken advantage of by your other teammates to end games once theyre chipped or taken out. Its a somewhat one dimensional mon but paired with a good fighter resist like Vic or Xatu and other physical threats makes it a really scary mon to be fighting. SD sucks outside of rain lol
I dont feel like going through every mon in depth so ill just mention the interesting stuff. Clef is a good special sponge and has broken encore but a few things hold it back from being A tier imo. I think Swalot and Pidgeot have potential on Spikes but for now theyre mostly seen on Spikeless builds. Banette has a lot more raw breaking power than Haunter if youre fine losing speed and utility. Ape enjoys a hit-and-run playstyle thanks to its speed but its lack of bulk or utility make it a niche pick over Chan and Wrath. Shiftry is the less cool less successful brother of Victreebel but it still has a place on full sun squads using both. Torkoal Tales and Pikachu are all pretty good lead choices, if RarelyUsed.
I'm not really sure how to end this after writing that much but I'd be pretty weary using anything below B-, whilst not technically unusable theyre generally outclassed by a higher mon for various reasons and you need a pretty good reason to be slotting them.
 
Good morning! We recently held a survey after RUBD to gather recent thoughts on ADV RU, this helped us gauge whether shifts were positive and if we are in a right direction for the tier moving forward. This survey is a lot more brief than the past surveys since our tier is in a very well-developed state at the moment and our sample size for gathering thoughts was shrunk to 9 members. Due to this, I will also keep explanations about the responses brief and informal just to save myself some time. If you have any concerns about this survey or about the tier's current state, feel free to join the ADV RU discord server (in my signature) and we will be happy to answer! I would like to thank LpZ BigFatMantis Feliburn plznostep Heysup SpoiledBerries Msousa BP and myself for taking time to submit responses!!! Now onto the questions...

Q1: How much do you enjoy ADV RU?


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Q2: How competitive do you think ADV RU is?


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Q3: How easy do you find teambuilding?


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In regards to these questions, with the exception of one outlier, results seem fairly positive on average on the tier's current state and how the competitive experience is.

Q4: Are there any pokemon you find problematic for the tier?


Responses have been heavily varied with this topic. Some people suggest that nothing is currently problematic, while others made suggestions that Glalie or Rapidash are. Glalie had the most detailed responses generally with its place in ADV tiering as a whole or how it makes ADV RU less interesting and centralized, and Rapidash had very brief mentions. These two Pokemon are widely considered to be the best in ADV RU and while these results havent reached that much of a consensus, we will monitor the meta closely on if these two are too powerful for their own good in the future.

Q5: What do you expect for ADV RU heading into 2025?

These responses were kept fairly brief. While some players suggested that suspects be made, the majority were fine with what the future holds and hopes that we have more tournament representation as well as creativity from the playerbase and potentially even smogon dex analyses. We can keep trucking forward as we are, and I'm glad that ADV RU looks to be in a stable place for tours like RUPL! Thank you for reading, viva la ADV RU~!
 
:rs/rapidash: VIABILITY RANKINGS UPDATE!!! :rs/poliwrath:
Hello again! After countless meta developments since the past VR update, we figured it was time to give it a touch-up before RUPL and potentially ADVPL! This VR is meant to reflect how ADV RU has changed with shifts active and what's currently in vogue. A lot of changes were made here but fortunate to say, the rises and drops are equal to each other! Huge thanks to LpZ BigFatMantis SpoiledBerries THE_CHUNGLER and nebi for helping out, we're happy with how the final result turned out! Here are the list of changes:

Additions:
  • :xatu: to A-​
  • :clefable: to B+​
  • :whiscash: UR to C+​
  • :pineco: UR to C-​

Rises:

  • :rapidash: from A to S​
  • :poliwrath: from A to A+​
  • :raichu: from A to A+​
  • :victreebel: from B to A​
  • :kabutops: from B+ to A-​
  • :meganium: from B+ to A-​
  • :pidgeot: from B- to B+​
  • :swalot: from B- to B​
  • :camerupt: from C to B​
  • :roselia: from C- to B​
  • :pikachu: from C- to B-​
  • :azumarill: from C to B-​
  • :mr. mime: from C to B-​
  • :aggron: from C to B-​
  • :relicanth: from C to B-​
  • :exploud: from C to C+​
  • :shuckle: from C to C+​
  • :pupitar: from C to C+​
  • :sudowoodo: from C- to C​
Drops:

  • :haunter: from A+ to A
  • :stantler: from A+ to A
  • :metang: from A- to B+
  • :primeape: from A- to B+
  • :sableye: from A- to B+
  • :persian: from A- to B
  • :torkoal: from B+ to B-
  • :flareon: from B+ to C+
  • :magmar: from B to B-
  • :huntail: from B to C+
  • :octillery: from B to C+
  • :wailord: from B- to C+
  • :seadra: from B- to C+
  • :sharpedo: from C+ to C
  • :lickitung: from C+ to C-
  • :pelipper: from C+ to C-
  • :kingler: from C+ to C-
  • :absol: from C- to D
  • :vigoroth: from C- to UR
Reasonings:

:xatu: Xatu filled the bulky Psychic role that Hypno used to have, and has seen uses on offensive teams that appreciate a status absorber, Fighting check, Sun sweeper check, and Ground-immune. Its Calm Mind sets have also had success due to its above-average Special Attack and Speed and access to Thief to increase the threat of Spikes.

:clefable: While Xatu fills Hypno's role of being a Psychic-type, Clefable fills Hypno's role of a special wall. Clefable sees itself on bulkier teams that use it for its access to Encore, spreading paralysis, and instant recovery to check Sunny Day Rapidash, some variants of Raichu, and Politoed. However, its Toxic weakness, lack of resistances, and Fighting weakness are all hinderances for it that dont make it quite as splashable as Hypno was, yet there is still a great amount of potential with the Pokemon.

:rapidash: Ever since its huge boom in usage in RUGL, Rapidash has became emblematic of the tier at large as one of the best mixed wallbreakers and revenge killers. Rapidash fits on every sort of offensive team and is very effective at its job, sitting at the very top of usage stats for the past few tours. It now sits with Glalie in the S rank as two Pokemon that shape the tier around themselves.

:poliwrath: Poliwrath has joined Politoed in the ranks of being an incredibly influential bulky Water-type, and its sheer versatility as a lead, wallbreaker, and sweeper as well as its general lack of counters makes it fit on every type of team style and justifies a higher ranking.

:raichu: Raichu's incredible Speed was never anything to scoff at, but through deeper exploration, it quickly became a potent breaker that was unpredictable and lacked counters, similar to Poliwrath. Encore has seen more usage to disrupt the opposing team and made Raichu harder to play around, and this threat level is reflected in its VR rise.

:victreebel: Victreebel has seen a huge increase in usage due to recent meta changes and after new sets have been discovered to make it a stellar wallbreaker. Choice Band has been used to rip holes in teams without sturdy Poison switch-ins like Metang (which has seen a recent downswing), Mixed Sunny Day sets are a good choice on Sun teams that use Spikes, and defensive sets make Victreebel a very adept switchin to Poliwrath, Hitmonchan, and non-HP Ice Raichu. Combine this with Victreebel's other inherent traits such as access to a reliable sleep move, and its not hard to see why it's been doing amazing recently, reflected in its mighty raise in the VR.

:kabutops: Kabutops is the main reason teams need a Rock resist, and its offensive prowess with the combination of a powerful Rock Slide and Swords Dance is nothing to scoff at once checks like Poliwrath and Hitmonchan are weakened. Kabutops has liked the current meta trends, as it can also be used for some defensive patchwork, switching into some variants of Silk Scarf Rapidash without HP Grass and Pidgeot, and revenge killing Rain Dance Mantine.

:meganium: Meganium is one of the sturdiest Raichu checks and a solid SD sweeper that's very good into bulkier teams. It primarily holds together Spikeless teams that appreciate its matchup into fat teams, but its usage on Spikes structures isnt limited either, and its sheer splashability and consistency warrant a rise to the A ranks.

:pidgeot: Pidgeot is a CB Normal type that differentiates itself from Stantler and Persian with its access to reliable STAB priority in Quick Attack and a decent defensive profile with its bulk and Ground-immunity. Pidgeot is a good wallbreaker on either Spikes or Spikeless that punishes teams with soft Normal checks like Haunter with its secondary STAB; a notable upgrade over Persian.

:swalot: Decent tank that holds together Spikeless structures like little other Pokemon are able to accomplish. Swalot's valued access to Counter and Explosion while checking special threats that rely on Toxic to break down special walls make Swalot a valuable asset to beat down opposing trade machines, opening up a path for late-game cleaners that make Swalot a valued member of Spikeless and worth a slight rise.

:camerupt: After a year of being called one of the worst Fire-types in ADV RU, Camerupt has thrived with the current metagame trends favoring Sunny Day Rapidash, Raichu, Glalie, and Haunter, as Camerupt checks them all and can be difficult to switch into. Its earlier rise in usage was in part to its Specially Defensive sets for Rapidash, though its offensive sets with Substitute and Choice Band are great to take advantage of paraspam.

:roselia: Roselia has experienced its redemption arc in ADV RU as Raichu and Poliwrath were starting to gain more traction, holding together team styles such as stall and paraspam with impunity. These niche-r playstyles, while not at the forefront of the meta, have seen occasional use and success, so Roselia gets a rise to B.

:pikachu: The innovation of lead Pikachu has spiced up the lead metagame, beating the two most common leads in Stantler and Poliwrath while being very hard to switch into without Meganium. Most of its checks that can switch in are vulnerable to giving Glalie entry to spike, creating favorable earlygame lines when Pikachu runs into a mid-paced lead.

:azumarill: Azumarill functions similar to Poliwrath as a bulky Water-type lead that can trade decently with opposing leads such as Stantler, Hitmonchan, and Kabutops, while being hard to switch into. Its slower Speed and lack of Counter are still considerable downsides, but its niche is solid enough to land it in the lower B tiers.

:mr. mime:Mr. Mime has been blessed by the metagame trends giving it a niche as a Psychic-type that, unlike Xatu, has a significantly better movepool and higher power. Since Psychic resists are less common, and with Xatu losing to Mr. Mime on average, Mr. Mime feasts on teams that stack on Fighting- and Poison-types, giving it a decent niche as an antilead to Poliwrath and Hitmonchan.

:aggron:Xatu joining and Quagsire leaving has made Aggron more worthwhile. Aggron benefits from the surge in paraspam structures using Thunder Wave Xatu, Clefable, Roselia (or Stun Spore Bulky Vic), and Banette to increase its offensive potential, while its common entry points like the birds have been seeing more consistent usage.

:relicanth:Relicanth is similar to Kabutops by being able to check some variants of Silk Scarf Rapidash, and is more safe at switching into Stantler and Pidgeot. Its use on balance, while limited, is enough to make Relicanth rise as a worthy consideration.

:exploud: Due to Clefable's precense, Exploud's role as a SubToxic wallbreaker has been given slightly more merit. It also sees occasional use as a lead, as unlike Stantler, its access to Counter and better special bulk make it better at handling faster leads such as Pikachu and Ninetales, although this role wasn't quite enough for it to rank any higher than C+.

:shuckle: Shuckle is a mixed wall that can handle a plethora of Pokemon in the tier on stall teams, albeit not too consistently and with glaring issues of its own with its extreme passivity and being very easy to switch stall.

:pupitar: Pupitar's role as a DD sweeper has been slightly helped with an uptick in Silk Scarf Rapidash, although its inconsistency is still a big struggle for it and struggles to make full sweeps.

:whiscash: Whiscash has stepped up to the plate in Quagsire's place as a bulky Water/Ground type to check Raichu and Kabutops, although its downsides are still felt in-game even without Quagsire to outclass it.

:sudowoodo: Sudowoodo has been theorized as similar to lead Kabutops, with a better movepool consisting of Earthquake, Explosion, and Counter. However, its usage is fairly low and we have yet to see it fully in action.

:pineco: Even in Glalie's reign of dominance, Pineco manages to squeeze out a tiny niche for itself as a spiker that resists Fighting and can use Rapid Spin for decent role compression. Its horrid stats and 4MSS only land it in the lowest tier for viable pokemon in C-, but props to the little pine cone for making it onto the VR.

:haunter: Haunter is excellent at holding together Spikes teams, but by itself it is only mediocre, as its susceptibility to losing numerous 1v1s due to its frailty and lack of power compared to other special wallbreakers make it very reliant on Spikes support to threaten the opposition. While Haunter is fairly specific, the role that it fills in the tier is extremely valuable, but it only pales in comparison to the Pokemon currently in A+, which pose a higher threat level.

:stantler: Stantler is still a great wallbreaker and one of the most defining pieces of the lead metagame, but as teams have been diversifying, Stantler's flaws became more apparent. Its Speed for a wallbreaker is only average and it lacks options for speed control, making it easily picked off by Pokemon like Rapidash, Raichu, and Xatu after some chip damage, and it provides no defensive utility to a team outside of the marginal use cases of Intimidate and its Ghost immunity. Stantler isn't quite as splashable as the rest of A+ and has fell as a result.

:metang: Metang's status as an NFE has finally caught up to it. With the advent of Spikeless structures and Pokemon that can threaten Metang at every corner, Metang becomes more difficult to justify as a tank. It still has great matchups due to its typing, yet it can really fall flat in some cases, leading to its drop in usage which makes voters rank it no higher than B+.

:primeape: Primeape has suffered from competition with other Fighting-types in Poliwrath and Hitmonchan due to its very limited defensive profile and no speed control to back it up, but it still has a good place as a Bulk Up sweeper or Choice Band wallbreaker due to its decently fast Speed, and time will tell whether this dry spell in Primeape's usage is a direct result of its viability, but for now it lands a little lower than it used to in B+.

:sableye: Sableye is not quite the splashable wall it once was when ADV RU started. Sableye is mostly relegated to stall in a tier where offense rules everything, and struggles at being immediately threatening to opposing teams with decent longevity. Since it does function as the linchpin of these stalls as a bulky spinblocker, however, it is fairly influential to the tier and still lands with other decent Pokemon in B+.

:persian: Time has only been meaner to the cat, and this is the first VR iteration where Persian has landed in B tier. Persian's lack of power and defensive utility compared to other Normal-types has been troublesome for it, although some voters still value Persian's place as a revenge killer that outspeeds Rapidash and can pick off frailer teams. This vote has been fairly divided, but it ends up at the median of B tier, a modest placing that still reflects Persian's drop-off.

:torkoal: Fire competition has been rough for Torkoal, and it struggles to find places on most teams as a mixed wall despite its ability to check Silk Scarf Rapidash due to being incredibly slow and giving entry to the Polis.

:flareon: Flareon has ended up back at square one as the worst ranked Fire-type, but for different reasons this time around. Rapidash has eclipsed the role Flareon held as a mixed wallbreaker, and the teams Flareon fit on over Rapidash have also fell off as a result. Using both has been disregarded, and finding other worthwhile roles for Flareon has proved difficult, leading to a big dip in the VR.

:magmar: While Magmar has a better movepool than other Fire-types, the competition with Rapidash has only been rougher for it as of late. This isn't a huge dropoff for it necessarily, as nothing much changed since the past VR, but we thought a lower ranking is probably more reflective of its current status.

:huntail: Huntail is outclassed by Mantine as a Rain sweeper due to the latter's Fighting resistance and outspeeding prominent figures like Salac Haunter under Rain. On top of this, the Rain teams where you can use Huntail alongside Mantine haven't had a good amount of tour success due to stacking weaknesses to Raichu. While Huntail has a few things over Mantine, it doesn't stand out by itself.

:octillery: :wailord: :seadra: These three Pokemon have been talked about in the past as leads with great potential, but the metagame has been harsher towards water leads that arent Poliwrath, not just because of Glalie, but the Polis are usually winning the Water v Water interaction due to their access to Counter. Octillery is slow, Seadra is specially frail, and Wailord struggles at getting a boom off when it has to trade vs the Polis. Yet, they are still put into mild consideration as leads like Stantler and Ninetales still have traction.

:sharpedo: Sharpedo has a great Xatu matchup..................... and that's it. With Poliwrath more common than ever, Sharpedo's usual sets aren't doing well and struggles to find a place in the era of both of the Polis being good and other special wallbreakers like Raichu taking the mantle of a Xatu check.

:lickitung: With Clefable in the picture, Lickitungs role as a bulky Normal-type with Wish has fallen out of favor, and stall teams are fine dropping it for another cleric such as Chimecho, which pairs nicely with Clefable and makes the role compression Lickitung provides not as appealing. It has dropped to C- but not to UR, as there might be some role it can fulfill on a stall team in the future.

:pelipper: Pelipper has fell out of metagame favor due to its competition with Mantine as a Spikes-immune bulky Water. While the Poliwrath and Hitmonchan matchups are in its favor, it just struggles to find places on teams and meaningfully contribute as it lacks the special bulk of Mantine or the catch-all utility of the Polis.

:kingler: Kingler is a relic of the old lead metagame. While it can set up Swords Dance vs Poliwrath, Stantler, and Hitmonchan, it has trouble posing much of any threat afterward and relies on running into teams without Endure + Salac Haunter or back Hitmonchan. Until it finds usage, it will stay at the bottom of the viably-ranked Pokemon.

:absol: Absol has been clinging onto dear life on a ranking that it was struggling to hold, but now it has finally managed to land a ranking in its own completely separate tier. Absol fell into the laughable D tier, a tier reserved for Pokemon that are unviable but is still a part of ADV RU by technicality. Absol has never seen any consistent usage or success, making it the single worst ADV RU Pokemon currently ranked.

:vigoroth: After a full year of being ranked on the official VR, Vigoroth has finally been let go and is currently UR, as its nonexistent usage and stringent competition with other Normal-types has solified that it shouldn't be ranked with Pokemon that are worth using. Goodbye Vigoroth.
 
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