Advice Needed! -- Apply Within:D

[Shadowheart]

Hey guys, this is my first RMT! Its primarily a bulky offense team (+ jolteon) that I've been working on for a while and it has held up fairly well in testing so far. But I'm still not 100% happy and I've got the team maker's equivalent of writer's block so any advice or criticisms would be greatly appreciated.:)

Development

Originally, this team was a revamp of my first ever shoddy team. One of the core elements of it was the legendary GyaraVire combo. Two of my favourite pokemon complement that each others weaknesses well.

So I had a strong attacking core, now I needed something that could take plenty of hits and hit back hard as well. Like Hitmontop, who had the extra bonus of being able to rapid spin away those pesky rocks.

I had strong attackers in the physical and mixed department, but i need a powerful special attacker who has a surprise way to kill blissey and latias. I also happened to have a gaping Rotom-A and WoW weakness. The answer: Heatran

The next problem i faced was Dragons. DD mence was gonna cause big problems. I needed a strong steel type who wasn't afraid of a little Outrage and who could punch back hard. Metagross, another favourite.

Finally, I had to do the thing that i hate doing most: choose a lead. After much deliberation and failed tests, I decided that Togekiss fit the bulky nature of the team the best. It also had the ground immunity that I really needed because i have 3 Pokes weak to it.

After some testing, I realised that, as much as I love Electivire, he just wasn't good enough and relied too much on Motor Drive and was useless without it. I still wanted that electric immunity for both Gyara's sake and twaves from Blissey. So i changed it to Jolteon, which also provided me with another way to take down some big threats

Finally, Hitmontop just wasn't pulling his weight. I needed more power, more movepool and more bulk. In came Machamp

In Depth

Kiss Kiss (Togekiss) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 42 Def/252 SpA/216 Spd.
Timid Nature (+ Spd, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Wave
- Encore

This thing has served me extremely well. It's a great annoyer with Twave to stop faster leads like Aerodactyl and Azelf , Air Slash to abuse serene grace and take on bulkier pokes with a weaker special defense like Gliscor and Hippodown and Encore used as pseudo-trapper and to ease prediction. Fire Blast is there to take out bulky steels like Skarmory who think they'll get a free switch. Its also fairly bulky and, with its moveset, it often takes 2 or more pokes to take it down. Speed EVs beat max speed smeargle.

Unfortunately there are a few things that Togekiss has trouble with. Jirachi causes problems because it has so many options and this set relies to some extent on prediction. Blissey, Heatran and TTar completely wall it though the last 2 don't like paralysis. If I see Jolteon, it's time to bail.

Lazarus (Gyarados) @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4HP/252 Atk/252 Spd.
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Gyara is a solid choice on any team, with great Attack and Intimidate. This is slightly unusual in that it is Jolly rather than Adamant. In my opinion, the speed makes a bigger difference than the attack. If a pokemon can counter Gyarados, its not going to be KOed by Adamant version either. The speed boost eliminates a major threat: Jolteon leaving only fast-scarfers to outspeed it. The other thing is the Wacan Berry. Even though I'm running jolteon to absorb the electricity, it's not incredibly bulky. The Wacan Berry means that Gyara can come back later in the battle to rip through a weakened team. It saves Gyara from so many KOs its not funny, allowing it to get a free DD on things like Starmie late-game.

Only thing I miss with Gyara is the reliable spinner. The nature of the Togekiss lead means that rocks almost always get set up. However even if Gyara only gets one kill, its still one less poke on the opponents team and late-game, one intimidate makes all the difference between winning and losing.

Bert (Metagross) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 112 HP/252 Atk/12 Def/132 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Agility
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch

The mighty Agiligross. There is not much to say about this set. He makes a great switch in to a rampaging Salamence or TTar. He has saved me so many times I've lost count, pulling off 4 pokemon, last pokemon sweeps is like a second language to him. Tpunch is for bulky waters. Expert belt over LO for survivability. Has problems with Rotom-A and Swampert and not much else.

Don't really wanna change him much but feel free to comment anyway.

Champ (Machamp) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SpD
Adamant Nature (+ Atk, -SpA)
- DynamicPunch
- Payback
- Ice Punch/Stone Edge
- ThunderPunch/Sleep Talk

This guy is a tank. He can take pretty much any special hit. He takes 30-40% from LO starmie's Hydro Pump and only takes around 60% from latias' Draco Meteor. He is my biggest dilemma though. Currently I am running Ice/Thunder Punches but it means i have to run lots of speed on Togekiss and i lose the sure fire Sleep Absorber that i get from Sleep Talk. However i hit Gliscor, Salamence and Gyarados for 4x damage. The other problem I have is late game Rotom-A WoW. If Heatran is dead, then I'm screwed. I have tried Guts but Champ really misses DynamicPunch with Low Kick being the best replacement.

Molten (Heatran) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 246 HP/252 SpA/12 Spd
Rash Nature (+ SpA, -SpD)
- Lava Plume/Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- HP Grass
- Explosion

Heatran counters so many things in today's metagame and has great stats to work with. I went for a more defensive approach with Shuca berry and HP. He is the only poke on my team who can hit Swampert super effectively and the necessity of HP grass really detracts from his ability to counter Gyarados or Salamence (HP electric and Dragon Pulse effectively.) I know I could drop Explosion for Dragon Pulse but being able to kill Latias and Blissey is so important as it clears the way for jolteon because the 2 are seldom on the same team. Tran also serves as the first of 2 status absorbers and serves as my best Rotom-A counter.

Zappy (Jolteon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- HP Ice
- Shadow Ball
- Fake Tears

Fast and deadly. Outruns Adamant Gyara after a Dragon Dance. Unusual in that it is what I switch in when i seen blissey (which Togekiss attracts like the plague) because it gives me a chance to see what set its running. Either it absorbs the Twave or gets Toxic which doesnt really matter seeing as Jolteon isnt hanging around long anyway (either switch out or revenge killed.) Fake Tears also scares plenty of things away and not many things like taking a Tbolt on the switch.

Notes:

1.) I want a good SR user but i can't find any room for one
2.) Same above for a rapid spinner (i know forretress is asking for a mention but where does he fit?)
3.) I like the Togekiss set but its easily walled. Should i run another attack? Gyara, Gliscor, Mence, TTar and Bliss are all common switch-ins.
4.) Go for coverage or Sleep absorb on Champ? That means i can run Bulkier Togekiss but lose coverage.
5.) Guts or No Guard?
6.) Different moveset on Tran?
7.) Lava Plume, Flamethrower or Fire Blast on Tran?
8.) Could I run toxic or sub on jolt?
9.) Change Jolt to Rotom-A or Zapdos?
10.) Should I scrap it and start again?

This has got me to about 1400 in the rankings but i need something more to go beyond. Anyway advice/criticism will be greatly appreciated.:D

Threats:

Blissey, Latias, Snorlax: Physicals have no trouble. Heatran explodes. Jolt uses Fake Tears. Togekiss has problems so switch.Mahchamp deos especially well against all three

Swampert: Only Tran can hit it super effective. One of the few things that can stop agiligross

Gliscor, Hippodown: Hp ice from Jolt. Waterfall from Gyara. Doesn't like Air Slash either. Stops machamp and agiligross.

Dragonite: Togekiss has trouble with Lum berry lead. otherwise HP ice from Jolt or stone edge from Physicals.

Flygon and Heracross: Both can cause problems. Usually just take the hit then switch to appropriate resistance.

Rotom-A: Tran takes WoW. Champ hits with payback on the switch. Jolt shadowballs. Agiligross and Gyara dont like defensive versions.

I haven't put every counter in because every pokemon has counters and I've tried to cover weaknesses as best as I can. (Note Scizor is pratcically useless against it:) If you see any gaping holes please mention them.

Thanx.

(Images Thanks To arkeis.com and pokemonelite2000.com)

 

[pkmntrainerblue]

I think you should stay with coverage on champ. I mean a common and one if the only effective sleepers is Breloom. Your team could destroy a Breloom. Your Jolteon could use HP ice, Heatran is self explanatory, Togekiss could use air slash, and last but not least your Machamp could use ice punch. Also how often does Togekiss uses encore of twave. If you got rid of one of those moves you could give Togekiss ancient power, wish, water pulse. I dont know if there are many more options so you could just be better off as you are now. Also on champ you are better off with no guard because they could think you have a guts set and still not use a status move on you so you can get some status guarding just by people not knowing what to do. You could use fire blast on that set because it is a bulky set so it does not matter much to you if you were to miss. But if you want a more likely burn over power. Flamethrower is not the best option for you because same chance of burn to fire blast and it is not much more powerful then lava plume. So it is your choice lava plume for burn or fire blast for power. I dont think you want to change your jolteon because you said he is fast and deadly and you will lose the speed with other pokemon you thought about changing to. That is all I have to say on your notes you wrote. I could not find the answer to the other notes. But I hope this helps.

 

[Snorlaxe]

Hello! This is a cool team, but I see you having problems with Swords Dance Lucario. Lucario can easily set up a Swords Dance on any of your weakened Pokemon and then proceed to do major damage to your team. It can outspeed and OHKO Togekiss, Metagross, Machamp, and Heatran with Close Combat, OHKO Jolteon with Extremespeed, and OHKO Gyarados with Stone Edge (with a Swords Dance boost that is). I think that in order to fix this weakness, you may want to consider switching your Togekiss lead for a Gliscor. Gliscor is a pretty phenomenal Pokemon in the lead position, as it can easily set up Stealth Rock and then use Taunt quite well to prevent Stealth Rock. Gliscor is also the best Lucario counter in the game, as it can outspeed all variants and OHKO with Earthquake, while taking pitiful amounts of damage from Extremespeed. Use this set:

Gliscor @ Leftovers | Sand Veil
Jolly | 252 HP | 40 Def | 216 Spe
Earthquake | Stealth Rock | Roost | Taunt

Earthquake is necessary on Gliscor as it allows it to easily deal with Lucario, as well as Heatran, Metagross, and Jirachi leads. Earthquake is also Gliscor's only real reliable form of STAB. Stealth Rock is an important hazard that your team desperately wants, as it will turn many 2HKOes into OHKOes, and many 3HKOes into 2HKOes, etc. Roost provides Gliscor with a safe, reliable form of recovery, which is very important on a defensively oriented Pokemon such as Gliscor. Taunt allows Gliscor to stop the opposing team from using any non-attacking move, which includes entry hazards like Stealth Rock. This is huge, especially for your team, as Gyarados (a key Pokemon on this team) takes 25% damage from Stealth Rock upon switching in. Other members of the team are all prone to Spikes, and against stall teams this team will have an incredibly difficult time switching around. Taunt is just a great move for breaking stall in general, so thats a plus. The EV spread gives Gliscor great bulk in its HP stat, as well as running enough Speed EVs to outpace even Jolly Lucario. No EV investment in Gliscor's Attack stat is neccessary, as Gliscor is capable of OHKOing Lucario no matter what.

On Gyarados, I think that you may want to opt for a Life Orb over Wacan Berry. While Wacan Berry has its uses, Jolteon is a very solid switchin to Electric-type attacks at the moment, and if you chose to add Gliscor to your team over Togekiss, then you will have two immunities to Electric-type attacks on this team. Life Orb gives Gyarados a much needed kick to its attacks, and after a Dragon Dance it will be doing much much more damage with all of its attacks. Leftovers could be an option for the item as well, but generally Leftovers is best used on more bulky Gyarados variants. Gyarados as it stands really wants the extra power as opposed to survivability, especially seeing as you are chosing to use a Jolly nature as opposed to an Adamant one. While you may not like the recoil damage from Life Orb, due to Gyarados's Stealth Rock weakness it is kinda more of a "one-shot" sweeper. Life Orb is overall a more solid choice on Gyarados, as the extra power does make quite a difference.

Have you ever considered using Substitute over Ice Punch / Stone Edge on Machamp? Substitute is a huge help on Machamp, as due to its pretty fantastic ability to cause switches by threatening an STAB Dynamicpunch, it has many ample opportunitues to set up a Substitute. From behind a Substitute Machamp has great type coverage to abuse with its three attacking options. The especially great thing about Substitute on Machamp is that due the 100% Confusion rate from Dynamicpunch, even if the opposing Pokemon does break Machamp's Substitute, chances are that Machamp will be able to relatively easily set up a fresh Substitute while the opponent struggles to attack in confusion. Also, definitely use ThunderPunch all the time in the last slot on Machamp, as this team could have a tough time dealing with a Jolly Dragon Dance Gyarados should your own Gyarados faint. Machamp is a pretty solid choice to use against Bounce-less Gyarados, as its impressive defense and HP allow it to easily survive a +1 Waterfall, and then OHKO back with ThunderPunch.

On Jolteon, try using Charge Beam over Fake Tears. Fake Tears is a rather poor choice on Jolteon in my opinion, as while it is useful for causing switches, Jolteon is just too damn frail to be an effective user of the move. If it uses it against any foe that is not switching it, chances are it will either be set up on or OHKOed the next turn. Charge Beam is a great choice on Jolteon as it allows it to pick off weakened foes, and has a pretty good chance to raise Jolteon's Special Attack. Charge Beam is also a fantastic move to use when you know that the opponent is going to be switching out, as with Charge Beam doing damage is not what matters; what matters is securing the Special Attack boost. As long as Jolteon can manage to be lucky enough to get that boost on the switchin (provided the switchin isnt Electric-immune), then the opponent will be in for a world of pain, especially if all of their Choice Scarf users have been KOed.

Hope I helped, and good luck with your team Shadowheart! ;)

 

[Shadowheart]

Thanks for all your help:D
Pkmntrainerblue, I think i will try to mix and match the Togekiss set and I'll Definitely run lava plume on Heatran because it's proved so useful against the likes of Gyarados and Salamence.

I see you having problems with Swords Dance Lucario. Lucario can easily set up a Swords Dance on any of your weakened Pokemon and then proceed to do major damage to your team.

You are correct that I'm Lucario weak but it never gets a chance to set up. Every pokemon on the team has a super-effective move except jolteon, which OHKOs with Tbolt anyway. The only time I've had problems with it is when it runs a focus sash, which is why I wanted the SR that you have so gracefully provided.

I will definately try Gliscor, he seems to fit really well and I think the team will benefit from both SR and the electric and ground immunities. However I do have some concerns. Firstly, it seems to me that he is completely useless against suicide leads like Azelf and Aerodactyl, the second of which I sometimes have trouble with. And Flying/Levitating pokemon could be a concern: Dragonite, Mence, Rotom-A, Gyarados. Would stone edge be an Alternative option. Also, his lower SpD concerns me due the abundance of Starmie, MixApe and Mixed Swampert. Obviously my team can take most of these threats but I'm wondering if it's worth having to switch out to counter them and losing the coverage?

I will definately try LO on Gyara, especially if I run Gliscor as a lead. But I'd just be repeating your points there.

Sub on Champ is another great idea, though I'm not sure about running Tpunch over Stone Edge/Ice Punch as Salamence seems to be more of a problem than Gyara and Stone Edge still covers Gyara.

Charge Beam on Jolt. What can I say? Great idea! and wondering why it didn't occur to me before, thanks for that one.:D

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Ironic Demise]

With Metagross, I suggest Ice Punch over Thunder Punch.

It provides better coverage to your weakness's, and does bigger damage on the Big Dragons (Salamence, Dragonite, Flygon) with the excpetion of Gyarados, which can be covered with Jolteon anyway.

Also, change your lead to the Gliscor suggested, because SR can help your team a lot. As well provide coverage.

 

[Shadowheart]

I was originally running more ice moves. (Ice Fang on Gyara, Ice Punch on Gross) but the current moves eventually proved more useful. Stone Edge, much as i hate using it, gives me thee ability to kill enemy Gyara and Mence and get a neutral hit on Latias. TPunch on Gross is there because I can kill mence with Meteor Mash most of the time anyway but i can't hit Gyara and (more importantly) I lose the 2HKO on Skarmory. The way I usually play this team, means Jolteon often dies early, leaving me helpless to Gyara sweep later on. So thats why i run those moves. However I am now running Dragon Pulse on Tran for better Mence coverage so thanx for that idea

I tried the Gliscor lead but I found that it wasn't versatile enough. I have since tried dual screens Uxie, to much more success. Any suggestions for better ways i could take advantage of dual screens the best?