ORAS OU Aiming for the (Hitmon)top - [Offensively orientated balance]

[BamALam]

(My first RMT = http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/fast-and-slo-balance-feat-slowking.3538876/)

Welcome to my second RMT, my name is BamALam (Scizorxscizzor and pietro244 on Showdown).

Firstly, there are two things you need to know about me:
1. I like the move Rapid Spin.
2. I also like priority.

So, I decided to combine the two and got this

; the most underrated Rapid spinner in ORAS OU.

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Team Building

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I wanted to use an anti meta mega, so I chose bulky mega Altaria for the team. It also doubled as a cleric, so that's great too.

I needed a rock setter, and a second member of my Dragon-Fairy-Steel core, so I opted for Garchomp. I made it Rocky Helmet over sash, as I needed an answer to physical steels like Mega Metagross.

To complete my Dragon-Fairy-Steel core, I chose Scizor > Heatran because I felt the latter was too passive, the ability to provide momentum with U-turn was crucial, and I also like Bullet punch's priority.

Then I chose Rotom-W because it has a nice Volt-turn synergy with Scizor, and M-Altaria can come in on Pokemon that wall it like Chansey and Mega-Sceptile, and then take it from there.

I needed a solid Knock off user, a Mega-venusaur/ grass check and a secondary fairy switch in, so I opted for AV Tornadus-T. Also, the speed it provides is crucial towards the outcome of the match.

Finally, I needed a Bisharp check, hazard remover and general priority attacker if things go wrong, so I chose the star of this team Hitmontop to cover this role. It acts as a pseudo M-Lopunny to scout out moves with Fake Out and also to get some nice chip damage when it comes it. Additionally, it can act as a late game cleaner when all its threats are gone.

"Oh man. Oh man. Not again"

P (Garchomp) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast

Soil (Garchomp) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

Fat-chomp serves as an excellent solution to hard hitting physical attackers like Scizor, and the residual damage makes it easier for Hitmontop to clean weakened opponents.

I opted to go 252 HP and 252 Def, because I wanted Chomp to be as physically bulky as possible since it is the primary answer to physical threats. Fire Blast is for Ferrothorn, as it is often switched into Chomp and it does more damage than Earthquake. Dragon tail is for phazing, which is crucial on any non Fairy set up mons like Talonflame and also good for letting the opponent rack up Stealth rock damage.

" I shot the sheriff "

I (Scizor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind


He shot the sheriff with his bullet punch

Previously Scizor was Choice Banded, but I opted to change to Leftovers as Sylveon was giving me headaches scouting for my move with Protect. The Ev's are straight from the Mega Scizor set on Smogon as, I wanted it to have as much SpDef as possible and be a reliable switch in to predicted Hyper Voices or Moonblasts, and regain the damage lost with Roost. Otherwise, the set is fairly standard.

"Yes I do the cooking. Yes I do the cleaning"

E (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Again, a fairly standard Rotom-W set, but nevertheless effective. This is normally my lead most of the times against Hippo and Landorus-T, as the burn on these Pokemon is crucial towards the game outcome. Pain Split is also nifty to recover lost damage against self healers.

"Yeah, its definitely sweater weather"

T (Altaria) @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 96 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Frustration
- Heal Bell

My primary cleric and bulky set up sweeper. It can come in on many mons like Rotom W, Charizard X/Y and CM Keldeo at full health and set quite easily, regardless of potential burns. M-Altaria is the glue of my team, who comes in on resisted moves and then proceeds to set up. At the beginning of the game if I feel the opponent is leading with a Fat chomp or Rotom-W, I lead with this to get the Mega Evolution up and proceed to set up or attack directly.
I also, prefer Cloud Nine over Natural Cure as I can outspeed certain pokemon under weather like Swift Swim Kingdra for a turn and deal heavy damage . Otherwise, M-Altaria is a fantastic mon, who is a solid cleric and valuable member of my team.

"Cry me a river"

R (Hitmontop) @ Muscle Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin
- Sucker Punch


This thing is surprisingly effective as a reliable cleaner end game, when the Pokemon who resist its moves are removed like Landorus-T and Fairies. Often people do not know what it does other than spinning, nor do they expect the 3 priority attacks heading their way. Fake out is naturally used when you switch in, but be wary of opposing Rough skin users, and the other 2 priority moves are used when cleaning up late game or when you have a chance to suprise the opponent. Also HItmontop can act as a solid Bisharp check, as long as you do not let it Swords Dance up too much.

Some Calcs

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252+ Atk Muscle Band Technician Hitmontop Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 77-91 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

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252+ Atk Muscle Band Hitmontop Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 204-242 (68.2 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Hitmontop: 188-222 (62 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Muscle Band Technician Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 384-456 (141.1 - 167.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

"Will you still love me when I'm no longer young and beautiful?"

O (Tornadus-Therian) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Knock Off
- U-turn

To be honest, I often overlooked this mon as I thought it was your generic bird spammer. Well, that was up till recently when I decided to give this mon a go as my fat grass check and knock off user, and I have to say I was surprised with the result.

Tornadus- T is a fantastic anti- meta pokemon as it has many switch in opportunities and can come in many times and hit hard on both sides of the spectrum. But, I have got to say, the best thing about this mon is its unusually high speed tier, as it often goes first in a turn. This causes fast U-turns, Knock offs and even random flinches with Air Slash (I prefer Air slash > Hurricane btw, as the flinch chance is great an it is a more reliable move to spam).

Lastly, Heat wave is used over fighting coverage as I hate ferro and Scizor (also I have enough fighting type coverage from Scizor and Hitmontop along with having a Rotom-W, so Heatran is not a problem).

Threat List

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Sylveon

and CM Clefable

I hate having to switch in on hyper voices and moonblasts, as my team has only 2 special fairy switch in's (Scizor and AV Tornadus-T). If they are gone, then it's gg.

Specially defensive Talonflame

This can essentially burn my whole team and taunt to prevent M-Altaria from recovering or using Heal Bell. If Rotom is fainted, then its also gg.

Replays

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http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-258731888
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-258727707 (with previous member Hippo)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-258656631 (with previous member Heatran)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-258623878 (why I hate Fairies)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-258623878 (why I hate Fairies 2)

Importable

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P(Garchomp) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

I (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind

E (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

T (Altaria) @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 96 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Frustration
- Heal Bell

R (Hitmontop) @ Muscle Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin
- Sucker Punch

O (Tornadus-Therian) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Knock Off
- U-turn

So in conclusion, I hope you like my team as much as I do and check out the music if you're feeling nice : ]

 

[Alastor Law]

Hey man, I've never seen Hitmontop in ORAS OU, and that team seems interesting, so let's see what we can do to make it better:

First, I'd change the EV spread that you're running on Garchomp for this one

Soil (Garchomp) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

This helps you outpace all those 80 base speed Pokemon that would be troublesome to deal with, such as Bulky Zard X, Gyarados, Dragonite, Diggersby, Jolly Bisharp and so on. It's role is the same; with this spread it just accomplishes it much better.

Second of all, I don't agree much with that scizor set, and because you're running Spin support, I'd go with Iron Head, Whirlwind, Roost and Spikes Skarmory, which your team benefits much more from. Use the standard Smogon set in this one.

Then I'd change the Rotom-W for this one to take hits better overall:

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

This puts a stop to both Torn-T, Landorus and Exca as well as it can spread burns, while removing some peer pressure on Skarm and creating a volturn core with Torn-T.

Altaria and Hitmontop are just fine, so I won't comment much about them.

Finally, and speaking of Tornadus, your team feels a bit stall weak, so I encourage you to try the LO Taunt set. It hits super hard stuff like Clefable and rapes SpDef Talonflame, as well at it keeps momentum on your side of the field, so it would be fine to give it a shot in this team. It's the standard Smogon set too.

Hope my suggestions helped and GL with the team :)

 

[4daptability]

This team is really intriguing because it makes use of Hitmontop, which I'd say has a niche over Breloom due to its ability to check Weavile, and Spin.

I'm not quite sure why you opted not to run max speed on your Tornadus-T, seeing as though it can make the difference between being threatened out LO Psyshock and forced into Scizor which can potentially face a 2HKO from LO Focus Blast after Stealth Rock damage (a somewhat uncommon situation because Psychic seems to be more popular, but something that can be avoided). Overall, the missing Special Attack investment might not even be noticed, seeing as though Air Slash 2HKOs Keldeo, and Heat Wave deals tons of damage to Scizor and Ferrothorn, anyway. I also agree with the change in EV spread Alastor Law provided for Rotom-W, seeing as though it helps beat boosted Talonflame, and can outspeed and burn Bulky SD M-Scizor that might try to hit the 210 benchmark to outspeed un-invested Rotom-W, which might even allow Altaria to set up on it if it hasn't mega evolved yet.

Also, I played around with some calcs on Hitmontop and found that Dread Plate-boosted Sucker Punch + Fake Out yields slightly more damage than Muscle Band; assuming min damage on both rolls, Dread Plate damage adds up to 98.3 %, whereas Muscle Band only adds up to 93.9%.

GL with the team, it looks a bit unconventional but I could see it work out, so long as you play carefully around opposing Steel types (Offensive SD M-Scizor sounds kinda scary late game, but I'm not quite sure how to fix that without altering the entire team).

 

[BamALam]

Hey man, I've never seen Hitmontop in ORAS OU, and that team seems interesting, so let's see what we can do to make it better:

First, I'd change the EV spread that you're running on Garchomp for this one

Soil (Garchomp) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

This helps you outpace all those 80 base speed Pokemon that would be troublesome to deal with, such as Bulky Zard X, Gyarados, Dragonite, Diggersby, Jolly Bisharp and so on. It's role is the same; with this spread it just accomplishes it much better.

Second of all, I don't agree much with that scizor set, and because you're running Spin support, I'd go with Iron Head, Whirlwind, Roost and Spikes Skarmory, which your team benefits much more from. Use the standard Smogon set in this one.

Then I'd change the Rotom-W for this one to take hits better overall:

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

This puts a stop to both Torn-T, Landorus and Exca as well as it can spread burns, while removing some peer pressure on Skarm and creating a volturn core with Torn-T.

Altaria and Hitmontop are just fine, so I won't comment much about them.

Finally, and speaking of Tornadus, your team feels a bit stall weak, so I encourage you to try the LO Taunt set. It hits super hard stuff like Clefable and rapes SpDef Talonflame, as well at it keeps momentum on your side of the field, so it would be fine to give it a shot in this team. It's the standard Smogon set too.

Hope my suggestions helped and GL with the team :)

Hi Alastor Law, thanks for your rate. I have been testing out your suggestions and Skarmory is definitely a great replacement over Scizor and the Rotom-W set you suggested is also working excellently. However, with Tornadus, I miss the AV and Knock off and with life orb, Tornadus is alot frailer and has a lot less switch in opportunities and often takes a lot of passive damage esp with rocks on my side. I realize, taunt is important, but I feel the Knock off support is more crucial. I am open for discussion if you feel the LO set is still better.

 

[Alastor Law]

Hi Alastor Law, thanks for your rate. I have been testing out your suggestions and Skarmory is definitely a great replacement over Scizor and the Rotom-W set you suggested is also working excellently. However, with Tornadus, I miss the AV and Knock off and with life orb, Tornadus is alot frailer and has a lot less switch in opportunities and often takes a lot of passive damage esp with rocks on my side. I realize, taunt is important, but I feel the Knock off support is more crucial. I am open for discussion if you feel the LO set is still better.

The thing is you need Tornadus-T to destroy opposing Stall teams, not to take hits or wall some stuff Altaria, Rotom and Skarm are meant to. Anyways, if you really feel knock off is essential for your team, use a Hurricane, Knock Off, Superpower and Taunt LO set, as U-Turn is not really necessary in this set. AV losses a lot of immediate power that you need in the form of LO, so I wouldn't ever change it back to Tank Tornadus-T. It's your team though, so you can try some options too.

 

[BamALam]

The thing is you need Tornadus-T to destroy opposing Stall teams, not to take hits or wall some stuff Altaria, Rotom and Skarm are meant to. Anyways, if you really feel knock off is essential for your team, use a Hurricane, Knock Off, Superpower and Taunt LO set, as U-Turn is not really necessary in this set. AV losses a lot of immediate power that you need in the form of LO, so I wouldn't ever change it back to Tank Tornadus-T. It's your team though, so you can try some options too.

Fair enough, valid point. Why Superpower > Focus Blast and Hurricane > Air slash btw ? Is it because of the better accuracy/power ?

 

[Alastor Law]

Pretty much, yea.

 

[BamALam]

This team is really intriguing because it makes use of Hitmontop, which I'd say has a niche over Breloom due to its ability to check Weavile, and Spin.

I'm not quite sure why you opted not to run max speed on your Tornadus-T, seeing as though it can make the difference between being threatened out LO Psyshock and forced into Scizor which can potentially face a 2HKO from LO Focus Blast after Stealth Rock damage (a somewhat uncommon situation because Psychic seems to be more popular, but something that can be avoided). Overall, the missing Special Attack investment might not even be noticed, seeing as though Air Slash 2HKOs Keldeo, and Heat Wave deals tons of damage to Scizor and Ferrothorn, anyway. I also agree with the change in EV spread Alastor Law provided for Rotom-W, seeing as though it helps beat boosted Talonflame, and can outspeed and burn Bulky SD M-Scizor that might try to hit the 210 benchmark to outspeed un-invested Rotom-W, which might even allow Altaria to set up on it if it hasn't mega evolved yet.

Also, I played around with some calcs on Hitmontop and found that Dread Plate-boosted Sucker Punch + Fake Out yields slightly more damage than Muscle Band; assuming min damage on both rolls, Dread Plate damage adds up to 98.3 %, whereas Muscle Band only adds up to 93.9%.

GL with the team, it looks a bit unconventional but I could see it work out, so long as you play carefully around opposing Steel types (Offensive SD M-Scizor sounds kinda scary late game, but I'm not quite sure how to fix that without altering the entire team).

Hi Victini, thanks for trying out my team and giving it a rate. You mentioned running Dread plate over Muscle band, however I don't think the slight increase in Sucker punch damage will matter much as I mainly use FO, spin and mach punch more often than sucker punch and prefer increasing the power of all its moves over just one move which is uncommonly used.

 

[Martin]

Hi Victini, thanks for trying out my team and giving it a rate. You mentioned running Dread plate over Muscle band, however I don't think the slight increase in Sucker punch damage will matter much as I mainly use FO, spin and mach punch more often than sucker punch and prefer increasing the power of all its moves over just one move which is uncommonly used.

Honestly, the key problem is that Focus Band is genuine ass. A power increase of 10% is never worth the loss of the ability to use another item, making it a very poor choice. If you want to make use of Technitop, it would benefit much more from the use of either Life Orb for the much greater increase in power (the 20% increase over Focus Band definitely makes up for the passive damage) or Leftovers for passive recovery increasing its longevity.

If you opt to use a Life Orb, make sure to change the EV spread to 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe as this allows Hitmontop to minimise Life Orb recoil (takes 1 takes 1 HP less than 10%, giving you one extra attack) while the extra speed allows you to creep base 70s which are creeping by up to 20 EVs. If you opt to use Leftovers, I'd bump the HP up to 252 as it gives Hitmontop a Leftovers number.