All Hail the Tropospheric Underdog!

Hey there Smogon! It's been more than a year since I've been around here, and I've been swimming around the depths of RU/NU for a while, but I think it's time I got back into the game! I knew the OU Metagame was dominated by weather, so I knew I'd have to use one if I wanted an edge (while I got used to OU again, that is). Well, I've played with Sandstorm for a long time, so I was bored with that. I played with Sun, and I just didn't enjoy it. Rain? Yyeeeaaaah, no thanks. So! That leaves Hail! I've also been really interested in Hail since Gen IV, but have never really gotten around to seriously using it. So, here's what I've got so far. I've been testing it out on Showdown for a while, and it's been doing fairly well, even against opposing weather teams, which I am proud of.

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THE TEAM

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Abomasnow @ Expert Belt
Snow Warning
Adamant ~ 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
-Ice Shard
-Wood Hammer
-Leech Seed
-Protect

Abomasnow is a must-have for Hail, of course, and I'm fairly fond of it as a bulky attacker. I know this set could use some improvement, however, but that's why I'm sharing it with you guys. Ice Shard is my method of dealing with Dragons, the Genies, and Breloom. It's also a nice way to deal some final damage before it's knocked out, or to revenge kill something that's low on health. Wood Hammer is powerful secondary stab that fares well against Water, Ground, and Rock types, meaning it's great opposition to Sand and Rain teams. Leech Seed gives it some longetivity to keep it around longer, and helps to add residual damage alongside Hail. Protect keeps me around longer via additional Leech Seed recovery and helps to scout out enemy moves. The reason I'm running the above EV set with an Adamant Nature and Expert Belt is because I need as much power as I can get from Ice Shard and Wood Hammer without sacrificing too much bulk. Again, any input on Abomasnow would be appreciated.

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Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Thick Fat
Jolly ~ 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Ice Shard
-Icicle Crash
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock

Ah yes, the beautiful Mamoswine. With the introduction of Thick Fat via Dream World, Mamoswine can provide an additional Ice resits while avoiding an additional Fire weakness that Hail teams are generally prone to. I have a terrible paranoia involving the new Breloom, so one of Mamoswine's roles is a Breloom counter. Ice Shard usually handles it fairly well, especially backed by Life Orb, and it also deals with Dragons, Genies, and Revenge Killing. Icicle Crash is for slower Ground types while also providing a safe option when anticipating a switch. Earthquake is my primary STAB that deals fairly nice damage to anything that doesn't resist it, and serving as a means to deal with non-Scarfed Jirachi. Stealth Rock is primarily filler but also helps to increase residual damage alongside Hail and scares away Ninetales and Volcarona.

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Froslass @ Choice Scarf
Cursed Body
Modest ~ 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Trick
-Destiny Bond
-Spikes
-Blizzard

Froslass is usually a Suicide Lead, but can act as a strong annoyance as well. Trick screws walls and slower tanks, while allowing Froslass to force switches and switch between moves. Destiny Bond is used to hopefully take out the likes of Terrakion and other hard-hitters, which sometimes pose a threat. Spikes is the key point here that I use to contribute to residual damage alongside Hail and to slow down the switch-ins of opposing Ninetales and Volcarona, as well as Tyranitar, Heatran, Forretress, Ferrothorn, Tentacruel, and other pains. Froslass also works as a Spinblocker, so that's cool as well. Blizzard is my offensive option that deals nice damage and abuses the 100% accuracy provided by Hail, while also hitting things like Breloom and Whimsicott that often prove to be obnoxious to the team. Additionally, Froslass' Ghost typing allows me to switch in on incoming Fighting attacks aimed at Abomasnow and Mamoswine, hopefully protecting them.

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Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Liquid Ooze
Bold ~ 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
-Rapid Spin
-Toxic Spikes
-Scald
-Blizzard

I've grown increasingly fond of Tentacruel, and here's why: Liquid Ooze, Rapid Spin, Scald, and Toxic Spikes. Combined, these all make Tentacruel a formidable defensive threat. Liquid Ooze makes Tentacruel something special - a counter to SubSeeders (with the help of Blizzard), a better counter to Ferrothorn, and a better counter to Conkeldurr. Because of Liquid Ooze, all of these lose continuous health alongside Hail (making it 1/8th a turn), and in the case of Conkeldurr, destroys its healing option. This has actually won me MULTIPLE battles on Showdown, and with the helps of potential Burns from Scald, it can outstall opposing defensive threats. Rapid Spin blows away hazards that would otherwise hurt my team while Tentacruel's typing also allows it to absorb Toxic Spikes. Tentacruel can also use its own Toxic Spikes to poison the opponent's team, FURTHERING residual damage alongside Hail. Scald is my STAB and helps to weaken physically offensive threats, slow down Sand Teams (primarily Hippowdown, since I shouldn't be staying in otherwise), and is boosted if I encounter Rain teams. Blizzard is my secondary offensive option that exploits the Hail for a 100% accurate 120 Base Power move that hits Breloom and Dragons super effectively, as well as the likes of Hippowdon. Tentacruel is a helpful addition to the team because it resits the Fighting types that generally plague Hail teams' cores, resists the Fire types that do the same, resits Steel that does the same, and overall functions as helpful support.

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Alakazam @ Life Orb
Magic Guard
Timid ~ 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Psychic
-Focus Blast
-Shadow Ball
-Energy Ball

Alakazam is my primary sweeper, and does an EXCELLENT job. Because of Magic Guard, Alakazam is immune to Hail and Hazards, so it can switch in for easy Revenge Kills, and can sweep without the fear of Poison, Burns, Hail, or Leech Sleed hindering its sweep. Psychic is my STAB option which does a lot to anything that doesn't resist it, and serves as a safe option when anticipating switches, while also eliminating Fighting types and opposing Tentacruel. Focus Blast is my powerful - though risky - way of handling Steels, Tyranitar, and Terrakion. Shadow Ball pairs well with Focus Blast by providing near-perfect coverage while allowing me to handle opposing Alakazam, Reuniclus, and Lati@s. I was torn between this and Hidden Power Fire as better way of handling Jirachi and opposing Steels, but I REALLY needed the Lati@s and opposing Psychic coverage. Energy Ball is my final option that allows me to deal with the massive amount of Water types out there - especially Politoed and Rotom-W, as well as Hippowdon.

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Arcanine @ Leftovers
Flash Fire
Adamant ~ 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Flare Blitz
-Extremespeed
-Close Combat
-Wild Charge

I'm sure many of you are wondering, "WHY NOT HEATRAN?" Here's why - an additional Fighting weakness that I do not need. I have to admit, though, this slot is shaky for me because I need something to counter Fire types and opposing Heatran, but Terrakion and Scizor have been giving me A LOT of trouble. Anyway, let's examine what I have right now. Arcanine works as a great counter to Fire types, absorbing attacks geared towards Abomasnow, Froslass, and Mamoswine. It also functions spectacularly against Sun, because of a boosted Flare Blitz that - especially after Flash Fire - crushes nearly anything in its path. Extremespeed is my way of breaking the sashes of faster Sash-users (note: Alakazam) and Multiscale (damn you, Dragonite), while also serving as a nice method to use for Revenge Killing and paving the way for my other teammates. Close Combat hits Steels and Rock types. Hard. Especially useful when concerned with Tyranitar. Wild Charge vs. Crunch is still a debate going on in my head, but I'm fond of Wild Charge so far. Wild Charge allows me to take down bulky waters more easily, including the evil Politoed that would try to change the weather on me.

So to avoid more length blocks of text, I'll leave you guys with some closing thoughts.​

  • I think Abomasnow's set could use some work
  • Terrakion is a big problem
  • Jirachi and Heatran are big problems as well, though Mamoswine and Arcanine can generally handle non-Scarfed variants
  • Scizor is a bit of a problem too (I'm sensing a pattern here)
  • I'm really iffy on Froslass because, as much as I love it, I feel like something with more potential could be filling it's place, but I value the Spikes support

Thanks for any and all of your input, folks! It feels good to be back in the OU Metagame after such a long time.​
 
Hey, props for using hail. When I first saw this team, I figured Arcanine *must* have been an Intimidate + physically defensive set, as shown on Smogon (248 hp, 252 def with leftovers), since hail (and your team is no exception) is extremely weak to fighting and steel moves (AKA Scizor, which physically defensive intimidate Arcanine laughs at). So, I was surprised to see that it was an offensive set. If this were my team, I'd change it to that set I just described (or just look at the Smogon page for it). I think that will help you check Scizor, and to a lesser extent Breloom and other fighting types far better.
 
Your team's weakness is obvious and glaring; Choiced Terrakion and Scizor. Terrakion (especially scarfed variants) can sweep your whole team just with Stone Edge and if Sand is provided, Psychic (nor Focus Blast, of course) from Alakazam won't be able to OHKO him even with SR, while Terrakion can simply retaliate with Stone Edge (and CC in case it's banded) for the OHKO. If it's a Scarf variant it'll just outspeed Alakazam and OHKO with Stone Edge right off the bat. For this reason I suggest changing Psychic to Psyshock as it can OHKO even in the Sand. You'll lose sometimes against Bulk Up Conkeldurr but you've got Tentacruel to wear him down a bit.

I can't really come up with a solution to fix your Scizor problem without supporting the above poster's idea to changing Arcanine to a physically defensive set, but that would make you lose the fire immunity and Morning Sun isn't really reliable under hail.

I like your team, good to see hail still surviving in this rough metagame.
 
Hi.
So I basically am posting to say the Scizor problem is not hard to fix at all. Many weather teams do this whereas they simply change Alakazam's set to a Focus Sash/HP Fire set. HP Fire allows you to easily OHKO Scizor while making sure you live the first hit. You can easily replace energy ball, as water is not a huge threat right now.
You also lack an actual revenge killer which is crucial to weather like Hail. Frosslass has a scarf, but it doesn't really do a good job of attacking with Mono-Ice. I'd suggest you change it to a Scarf Latios.

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Latios is (what I think) the best Scarfer nowadays. Draco Meteor will destroy anything that doesn't resist it, Surf helps against Terrakion and Heatran while hitting Jirachi neutrally, Psyshock hits Terrakion as noted by the post above me which allows you to not have to change Psychic to Psyshock on Alakazam if you're really opposed to it, and HP Fire destroys Scizor. Latios also pays no mind to entry hazards or hail, and between Mamoswine and Arcanine the Steels that stop it will dwindle, and it can even take care of some on it's own.

Good luck in the future.
 
Hi. I don't use hail a lot but I do have some ideas for this team.

On Frosslass, I would change the set to this:

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Timid Nature
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Spikes
-Taunt/Destiny Bond
-Blizzard/Destiny Bond
-Shadow Ball

I think this makes a much better lead. Focus sash allows you to survive almost any hit and then destiny bond right before you die. Taunt is great for preventing other things from setting up like Skarmory. Shadow Ball is needed to kill Espeon/Xatu who try to switch in to your spikes/taunt, although I guess Blizzard takes care of espeon. You have rapid spin which preserves focus sash meaning you don't even have to lead with this if you don't want to. If you do lead with this often, I would consider switching Blizzard to ice beam also, since you won't have hail giving you accuracy.

On Abomasnow, I would either put leftovers on him if you are going with protect/leech seed, and make him more bulky, or if you want to be offensive and stick with max attack/expert belt, then switch out protect and leech seed for HP fire and Earthquake with a Brave nature. HP fire will hit Scizor on the switch in, and will also hit Ferrothorn and forretress hard, who will want to set up on you or Gyro Ball you. EQ is good for hitting Heatran and Ninetales, who often switch in to Abomasnow.

On alakazam I usually use Focus Sash since it guarantees him an extra attack, since he can't survive anything except weak special moves. You could also run HP fire on alakazam instead of energy ball, since most Water pokemon are hit by Psychic/Shadow Ball super effectively (keledeo, starmie, jellicent, slowbro, etc)
and rotom is countered by abomasnow.

Instead of Arcanine, why don't you try out a Garchomp? He can take any fire attack, doesn't have problems with heatran, and deals with terrakion well enough. He also patches up your massive rock weakness. I would use Scarf Chomp since you don't have a lot of speed without scarf on Frosslass.

Hope I helped.
 
Hey, props for using hail. When I first saw this team, I figured Arcanine *must* have been an Intimidate + physically defensive set, as shown on Smogon (248 hp, 252 def with leftovers), since hail (and your team is no exception) is extremely weak to fighting and steel moves (AKA Scizor, which physically defensive intimidate Arcanine laughs at). So, I was surprised to see that it was an offensive set. If this were my team, I'd change it to that set I just described (or just look at the Smogon page for it). I think that will help you check Scizor, and to a lesser extent Breloom and other fighting types far better.

Thanks!

The reason I'm running the Arcanine I am is because he provides the helpful Fire immunity while serving as a nice attacker as well. Defensive Arcanine is harder to run on Hail because of the lack of reliable Morning Sun.

Your team's weakness is obvious and glaring; Choiced Terrakion and Scizor. Terrakion (especially scarfed variants) can sweep your whole team just with Stone Edge and if Sand is provided, Psychic (nor Focus Blast, of course) from Alakazam won't be able to OHKO him even with SR, while Terrakion can simply retaliate with Stone Edge (and CC in case it's banded) for the OHKO. If it's a Scarf variant it'll just outspeed Alakazam and OHKO with Stone Edge right off the bat. For this reason I suggest changing Psychic to Psyshock as it can OHKO even in the Sand. You'll lose sometimes against Bulk Up Conkeldurr but you've got Tentacruel to wear him down a bit.

I can't really come up with a solution to fix your Scizor problem without supporting the above poster's idea to changing Arcanine to a physically defensive set, but that would make you lose the fire immunity and Morning Sun isn't really reliable under hail.

I like your team, good to see hail still surviving in this rough metagame.

Hi.
So I basically am posting to say the Scizor problem is not hard to fix at all. Many weather teams do this whereas they simply change Alakazam's set to a Focus Sash/HP Fire set. HP Fire allows you to easily OHKO Scizor while making sure you live the first hit. You can easily replace energy ball, as water is not a huge threat right now.
You also lack an actual revenge killer which is crucial to weather like Hail. Frosslass has a scarf, but it doesn't really do a good job of attacking with Mono-Ice. I'd suggest you change it to a Scarf Latios.

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Latios is (what I think) the best Scarfer nowadays. Draco Meteor will destroy anything that doesn't resist it, Surf helps against Terrakion and Heatran while hitting Jirachi neutrally, Psyshock hits Terrakion as noted by the post above me which allows you to not have to change Psychic to Psyshock on Alakazam if you're really opposed to it, and HP Fire destroys Scizor. Latios also pays no mind to entry hazards or hail, and between Mamoswine and Arcanine the Steels that stop it will dwindle, and it can even take care of some on it's own.

Good luck in the future.

Hmmmmmm, it seems I may have found something new to try! I shall experiment with Latios and hopefully it'll work out well. Thanks!

Also, I'm glad to see people appreciate Hail. I've always been really interested in it but Sun/Rain/Sand just obliterate the metagame and make it a bit more challenging to run Hail, but it hasn't been TOO bad so far.
 
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