Ambipom (Analysis) [QC 0/3]

yaysnivy34

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[Overview]
  • best user of Fake Out
  • has access to Technician, one of the best abilities in the game
  • has good movepool to utilize it
  • however, Ambipom is extremely frail
  • extremely perdictable as well
  • still is viable in OU due to the few viable Ghost-types
[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: U-Turn / Return
move 3: Low Kick / Low Sweep
move 4: Pursuit
item: Life Orb
ability: Technician
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Fake Out is really powerful after STAB and Technician
  • U-Turn is the best option for scouting
  • however Return can be used for a reliable STAB option once Fake Out has been used
  • Low Kick is the best option for hurting Ferrothorn harder than Low Sweep
  • however, Low Sweep is good for slowing down opponents
  • Pursuit can easily trap and kill Gengar while doing a decent amount of damge to Reuniclus
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Ambipom has a few other options it can use
  • Double Hit is an option in the second slot if power is more important than reliability
  • Payback can be used over Pursuit for more power, though, Pursuit's trapping ability is better
  • Aerial Ace is an option to murder Celebi and Breloom, though the coverage it provides is undesirable
  • Taunt is an option for crippling walls
  • hazard and spin support is appreciated
  • Forretress and Tentacruel are great because they can do both
  • Starmie is a great offensive partner because of its ability to hit physical walls in their Special Defense and spin
[Other Options]
  • has an enormous movepool
  • Fire, Ice, and ThunderPunch
  • Knock Off
  • Seed Bomb
  • Last Resort+Fake Out
  • can somewhat use Offensive Nasty Plot, though, its miserable Special Attack makes it underwhelming
  • can Baton Pass Agility and Nasty Plot.
  • Switcheroo+Choice Band
[Checks and Counters]
  • Ghost-types
  • Gengar, Jellicent, etc.
  • Steel-types that are neutral to Low Kick / Sweep
  • Jirachi, Forretress, Skarmory, etc
  • faster pokemon in general due to Ambipom's poor defenses
  • Most Choice Scarf users, Alakazam, Jolteon, etc.
  • Conkledurr and Choice Band Scizor are good counters because of their powerful priority
 
Ambipom is certainly not the best Fake Out user. Mienshao is so much better than Ambipom. Mienshao can abuse Regenerator which offsets the Life Orb recoil. Thus, Mienshao last much longer than Ambipom. Mienshao also has Hi Jump Kick which 2HKO's pretty much everything that isn't a Ghost-type or Gliscor. Speaking of Gliscor, Mienshao has Hidden Power Ice for that.

Ambipom has a significantly worse Attack stat than Mienshao and worse offensive typing. Although Ambipom is much faster than Mienshao, the fact that it's walled by the common defensive threats in the OU metagame certainly offsets its excellent Speed.
 
I'm not exactly an Ambipom fan, but its Fake Out is almost twice as powerful as Mienshao's. On Mienshao it's just a waste of space really.
 
Let's not compare Ambipom to Mienshao, please. Mienshao is able to shatter entire defensive cores with a single attack, not to mention that it has Regenerator (it doesn't have to give a fuck about taking LO recoil). Ambipom is more of a scout / cleaner than anything; Ambipom lacks the power needed to power through many of the Pokemon in OU. That said, I don't see why Ambipom should be used at all in OU. Fake Out -- Ambipom's most noticeable asset -- is clearly telegraphed and easily taken care of. With Nattorei, Rugget Helmet Skarm, Jirachi, Jellicent, Gengar, etc lurking around each corner, Ambipom will have a pretty hard time scouting, let alone being anything close to a threat.
 
Sir said:
Ambipom is certainly not the best Fake Out user. Mienshao is so much better than Ambipom. Mienshao can abuse Regenerator which offsets the Life Orb recoil. Thus, Mienshao last much longer than Ambipom. Mienshao also has Hi Jump Kick which 2HKO's pretty much everything that isn't a Ghost-type or Gliscor. Speaking of Gliscor, Mienshao has Hidden Power Ice for that.
Click to expand...

I understand that Mienshao may be better, but it does not outclass Ambipom entirely. Ambipom fears Gengar much less, as Mienshao cannot freely fire off Hi Jump Kick for fear of missin when Gengar switches in. Ambipom's higher Speed and access to Pursuit make it better at dealing with Gengar. Gengar may not be a top tier threat, but it is still fairly common.
 
yaysnivy34 said:
I understand that Mienshao may be better, but it does not outclass Ambipom entirely. Ambipom fears Gengar much less, as Mienshao cannot freely fire off Hi Jump Kick for fear of missin when Gengar switches in. Ambipom's higher Speed and access to Pursuit make it better at dealing with Gengar. Gengar may not be a top tier threat, but it is still fairly common.
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No one is using HJK when their opponent has a Ghost-type. Mienshao can just U-turn on the obvious Gengar switch in. Ambipom doesn't even deal with Gengar well. Pursuit doesn't OHKO if it stays in and then Gengar is free to smack you with a Focus Blast
 
Jolly 252 atk Ambipom Life Orb Pursuit vs non-fleeing 4/0 Gengar = 81.7% - 96.9%

In fact, it's stronger than Choice Scarf Tyranitar's Pursuit. With SR, it has a great chance to OHKO it even if it stays in.

Therefore, it can even check the Lati Twins if they are weakened.
 
They're both different. Ambipom can check a lot of threats thanks to his important higher speed (let's not compare Mienshao and Ambipom speed in this metagame) while Mienshao is more of a wallbreaker.

I'd like you to add Taunt in AC, just because of the omnipresence of Deoxis-D and the fact that it's a great move on any "lead".
 
To add to what Mynism said, Mienshao basically has much more staying power while Ambipom is more of a hit and run Pokemon. Its Fake Out is super powerful so you can't even make that comparison, Sir. Pursuit does a good amount of damage, so Ghost-types can't really ruin this. I've seen Ambipom used well, though its defenses do leave something to wish for. I'm sorta on the fence for this, but I feel like it should have an analysis because it IS used by people in the tier.
 
Ambipom is only #113 in usage statistics in BW OU. I'd add Conkeldurr to the checks and counters, since it can use Mach Punch to take out the frail Ambipom. Bulk Up Conkeldurr can start setting up on Ambipom, then use Drain Punch to gets its health back. Choice Band Scizor could also get a mention, because Ambipom cannot take Bullet Punches and Superpowers.

252 Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Ambipom: 74.23% - 87.63%

252 Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Ambipom: 138.14% - 162.89%

Adamant 252 Atk Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Ambipom: 78.35% - 92.1%

Adamant 252 Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs 0 HP/0 Def Ambipom: 207.56% - 244.67%
 
Sry but this thing is totally unviable in OU.

The only thing it has going for it is a strong Fake Out and that's it. Add the fact that pokes such as Jirachi, Scizor, Skarmory, Jellicent, Reuniclus and any physically bulky poke make Ambipom almost useless by tanking everything it can do, and after you use Fake Out, you will be wondering why did you even use this poke in the first place...
 
alexwolf said:
Sry but this thing is totally unviable in OU.

The only thing it has going for it is a strong Fake Out and that's it. Add the fact that pokes such as Jirachi, Scizor, Skarmory, Jellicent, Reuniclus and any physically bulky poke make Ambipom almost useless by tanking everything it can do, and after you use Fake Out, you will be wondering why did you even use this poke in the first place...
Click to expand...

I understand why you might think this. I honestly was quite surprised when I learned that Ambipom was even UU when I first joined. However, Ambipom's main purpose isn't a sweeper, its a supporter.

Ambipom has an extremely fast U-turn that allows it to scout. Reuniclus? Not only does it take a bunch of damage from U-turn, but you can tell what set its running. If there is no Leftovers recovery, than you must play around the Trick Room set. If their is Leftovers recovery, than you know it's the Calm Mind variant. Same with Scizor. No Leftovers recovery, it's either Choice Band or Life Orb. If their is, than it's the rare Bulky Swords Dance set. Fake Out is just the icing on the cake. There is so much more to Ambipom than just attacking.
 
i'm just popping in to say that u-turn is not actually going to do major damage to reuniclus due to its great bulk... i have my doubts as well, but this is to function as a scout. you cannot adequately check scizor either, but the thing they are saying is they doubt the attacking prowess. honestly, 100 base attack is not too much to work with. technician is cool, but seeing as pursuit (when opponent does not switch), fake out (actually a cool use), and a fighting move that you may not use too often are the ones affected, i'm not so sure. maybe you could provide logs to show off what it does best? i'll try testing this thing out since it seems interesting to say the least. :d
 
Scizor outclasses the hell out of Ambipom in most situations. You want a strong priority user to guard you against fast sweepers? CB Scizor will do the trick! You want a poke that can scout while at the same time hitting like a truck? Look no further than Scizor... You want something that can Pursuit trap? Scizor! You want something that can do all these things without being useless defensively? Scizor!

The only thing that Ambipom can do over Scizor is killing some faster pokes that Scizor can't, such as Heatran and Celebi, but his negatives are so many that they outweight his pros. He can't the weakest of the hits in the tier, which means that you will have a hard time bringing him in, and when you finally do, you will realize that he is so easily walled that you will be forced out before doing anything, unlike pokes such as Mienshao that may be hard to bring in, but once you do your opponent is going to be in trouble.
Finally LO, SR, and Sandstorm damage are going to wear him down really fast, so he won't be around for long to use his priority when you need him.

Ambipom is hardly viable in UU, and he has no business in OU. If my posts seem hostile, they are not, it is just that Ambipom is shit in OU.
 
Tier: Standard OU
Mode: Singles
Variation: +21, -11
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Wifi Battle

Your team: Ambipom / Reuniclus / Salamence / Jellicent / Forretress / Celebi
Opponent's team: Mew / Breloom / Heatran / Magnezone / Cresselia / Haxorus

yaysnivy34 sent out Ambipom!
[Aura] Leena sent out Mew!

Start of turn 1
[Aura] Leena called Mew back!
[Aura] Leena sent out Heatran!

Ambipom used Fake Out!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Heatran lost 13% of its health!
Ambipom is hurt by its Life Orb!

The foe's Heatran restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 2
[Aura] Leena called Heatran back!
[Aura] Leena sent out Breloom!

Ambipom used Low Sweep!
The foe's Breloom lost 50% of its health!
The foe's Breloom's Speed fell!
Ambipom is hurt by its Life Orb!

The foe's Breloom's Toxic Orb activated!
The foe's Breloom was badly poisoned!

Start of turn 3
[Aura] Leena called Breloom back!
[Aura] Leena sent out Cresselia!

Ambipom used U-turn!
It's super effective!
The foe's Cresselia lost 29% of its health!
Ambipom is hurt by its Life Orb!
yaysnivy34 called Ambipom back!

I think this shows off what Ambipom does best: scouting. When Heatran switched into Fake Out, it recovered some HP with Leftovers, so I immediately knew that it was using its Specially Defensive set. Then, Breloom switched into Low Sweep, which severely dented it, which is an example of its decent offense. Finally, Cresselia switched into U-turn, which did a good 29% of damage. I also noticed that there was no Leftovers recovery, so two options which it could have been was the Dual Screens set or the Psycho Shift set, which is what it was. If this doesn't convince you, I'll definitely add more logs, but passively causing damage and weakening the opponent's team is a huge boon to Ambipom's capabilities.
 
Personally, Ambipom in actual practice are unimpressive. They are too one-dimensional; they always start Fake Out turn 1, which seems like the best choice to inexperienced players, but it is essentially a free turn for the opponent. It is very exploitable. It is not hard to wall this thing either. LO recoils from using weak moves like Fake Out and U-turn will quickly add up, limiting its battle duration. Ambipom was mediocre back in DPP, and it is even less effective in this Gen, where Pokemon are much bulkier.

I agree with alexwolf, that there are much better scouters than Ambipom out there. The only redeeming factor is its impressive 115 Speed, but it does not have the offenses of Starmie, Raikou, or Azelf to truly capitalize on this key characteristic.

What does Ambipom do for a competitive team? You say that it is useful for collecting information about the opposing Pokemon sets, but any Pokemon can do that (by attacking), and there are much more useful U-turners and priority users than Ambipom. You really need a lot of convincing to do, since the reasons / log you have provided thus far provides you with weak support. I will give Ambipom a shot, too, but this mon doesn't look too good atm.
 
Pocket said:
Personally, Ambipom in actual practice are unimpressive. They are too one-dimensional; they always start Fake Out turn 1, which seems like the best choice to inexperienced players, but it is essentially a free turn for the opponent. It is very exploitable. It is not hard to wall this thing either. LO recoils from using weak moves like Fake Out and U-turn will quickly add up, limiting its battle duration. Ambipom was mediocre back in DPP, and it is even less effective in this Gen, where Pokemon are much bulkier.

I agree with alexwolf, that there are much better scouters than Ambipom out there. The only redeeming factor is its impressive 115 Speed, but it does not have the offenses of Starmie, Raikou, or Azelf to truly capitalize on this key characteristic.

What does Ambipom do for a competitive team? You say that it is useful for collecting information about the opposing Pokemon sets, but any Pokemon can do that (by attacking), and there are much more useful U-turners and priority users than Ambipom. You really need a lot of convincing to do, since the reasons / log you have provided thus far provides you with weak support. I will give Ambipom a shot, too, but this mon doesn't look too good atm.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but Ambipom is THE scouter. Fake out, U turn, Low Sweep to lash out at steels... Name one scouter who does a better job.
 
I don't get this scouting argument. U-turn is nice and all but a hundred of pokes get it, and there a bunch of them that are way better than Ambipom. Mienshao, Scizor and Landorus are exceptional users of U-turn in OU, and they manage to scout the opponent's team with their U-turn and other attacks, just like Ambipom does, but the difference is that they can actually attack.

Something else important to note is that Ambipom is huge pursuit bait to things he can't hurt, such as Scizor and Metagross. The fact that they don't care about any of your moves doesn't help either. So go ahead use your STAB Techinician Fake Out while i bring in Scizor to tank the hit and then Pursuit kill you.

Finally IF i was crazy enough to use Ambipom, i would never use him with LO. Losing 10% of your health to deal 5% and 10% with your Fake Out and your U-turn to your opponents Steels or Ghosts that switch in, is not a good trade off. If you want him to scout he must be alive to do so. So Silk Scarf or Muscle Band are better options imo.
 
What about using Beat Up? Since most people lead off with Ambipom, you'll still have 6 pokes on your team. With Technician it has a BP of 22.5, that will always hit 6 times (that is if you are leading with it). This is perfect because when most people lead with Ambipom, the first thing the opponent will do will be to switch into a Ghost type making Ambipom's ability for the most powerful Fake Out useless. Here are some calcs:

252Atk Life Orb Technician Ambipom (Neutral) Beat Up vs 4HP/0Def Levitate Gengar (Neutral): 183% - 219% (480 - 576 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
252Atk Life Orb Technician Ambipom (Neutral) Beat Up vs 248HP/216Def Leftovers Water Absorb Jellicent (+Def): 71% - 86% (288 - 348 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

Keep in mind, just like with Skill Link Cloyster, crits are very bound to happen, especially because this is a 6-hit move. Since most of these Pokes will be switch-ins, then it's really a 12-hit move, in which can get rid of those Pokes that need to be 2HKO'd. Could someone also figure out what the chances of a 12-hit move not having a crit would be?
Here are some other calcs, in which a crit would matter, but would be very probable:
252Atk Life Orb Technician Ambipom (Neutral) Beat Up vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Clear Body Metagross (Neutral): 36% - 42% (132 - 156 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252Atk Life Orb Technician Ambipom (Neutral) Beat Up vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Jirachi (Neutral): 40% - 47% (162 - 192 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

Now of course this is heavily relying on that crit, but I have been using Beat Up Ambipom, and it really catches a lot of people off guard, as most people would expect a Pursuit if anything. The main thing you really have to watch out for is if they switch into Terrakion, then it's basically gg for you.
 
Seriously, Ambipom's only use in any tier ever is Fake Out. I still don't even know why he's UU, but hey. All it does is Fake Out a Pokemon for some damage and then become a completely liability. U-turn doesn't do much, Low Sweep is kind of meh, and Pursuit is nice for Gengar but nothing else. The thing with other U-turn users is that they can actually do damage. Scizor hurts everything with U-turn alone, while Bullet Punch can be used more than just the first move. Rotom-W is similar to Scizor. Mienshao can actually hurt things outside of Fake Out. Landorus is the same. So the only reason you'd ever use this Ambipom is Fake Out, which is just a crappy move in the first place. Not only is it incredibly predictable (with all the Steels/Rocks running around OU, half of whom don't give a crap about Low Sweep), but it's also not even that useful. Sure, you annoy the opponent by taking out 40% damage tops, but then you're just losing again. This is not to mention that Ambipom actually needs the Life Orb otherwise its attacks are even more pussy than usual. With SR, Spikes, Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet everywhere, you'd be taking like 50% of your health just by one shot of Fake Out alone. Now ask yourself. Why is this worth it?

Also scouting is kind of pointless nowadays since you get Team Preview.
 
ambipom is decent..... in UU

personally, the only OU worthy set is the silk scarf Fake Out+ last Resort set ;)

if you want a scout, use scarf scizor. it is surprisingly decent. and much stronger than ambipom.
 
ICBB users can't edit their own posts, so I'm locking this up.

It's not like Ambipom had a chance of getting approved for OU anyway.
 
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